WWW-based genealogy services

[Kerry Raymond]

I am curious about people's views on these various new WWW-based genealogy
services, where you input your family information via the WWW into some
database held by the WWW service provider.

Now, I can see the attraction of such sites to a new user -- no software
install on their home PC, indeed they don't even need a home PC -- they
could do it all through occasional access to the WWW through a library or
Internet cafe. And indeed for some kinds of system, I think a WWW-based
solution may often be superior to a program installed on your own PC.

But, I am also concerned by a number of risks with the WWW-based solution:

* many of these sites have "interesting" business models. Some are
straightforward subscription-based services (you pay $X per year), but often
the catch is that to share your data with other family members, they too
have to pay a fee/subscription. I have recently had a number of contacts
from people who are possibly related using these services and they generally
say "come and look at my information" but when I follow the URL, sure
enough, I have to fork over $20 or similar just to take a look at their
data. Now if there was only one such service, maybe I wouldn't mind paying
to subscribe, but there appear to be a number of them and I am not taking
out subscriptions at all of them. So I just write back to the enquirer,
saying "thanks, but I'm not prepared to subscribe to see your data" (which
can offend the person) but I suspect a lot of people feel a certain social
pressure to pay the subscription in order to avoid such offence.

* it is not clear what happens to the user's data if the subscription
expires or if the provider closes up shop -- can the user be sure to get it
back and in what format?

* privacy -- these sites are gathering a lot of data, presumably some of it
about living people -- yes, there are privacy policies in place, but what
technical safeguards exist to prevent an employee (or hacker) accessing and
selling on the data?

Of course, this is not to say the traditional alternative: install software
and run a database on your own PC is a perfect solution either. In
particular, it runs the risk of people not backing up their database
regularly (and despite being in the IT profession all my life, I am as
guilty of this as any newbie).

So, I am curious to hear other people's experience with such sites,
especially those who have chosen to use them in preference to a
home-installed program.

Kerry

[Robert G. Eldridge]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:21:18 +1000, "Kerry Raymond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

I am curious about people's views on these various new WWW-based genealogy
services, where you input your family information via the WWW into some
database held by the WWW service provider.

[snip]

In my opinion GenesReunited is an absolute con - offer something for
free and then charge to do anything of use having sucked in the user.

Anyone who is tempted by their site should carefully read the Terms
and Conditions at
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/genesreu ... ?wci=terms

By not being up-front with their fees and charges without registering
one does wonder what they have to hide.

Best avoided like the classic barge pole, especially when free
services of long standing are available.

--
Robert G. Eldridge Toronto NSW Australia
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddrge/
Now researching ELDRIDGE families world wide
1000's at my Web site * Wanted * Any Eldridge related information

[Paul Blair]

Kerry Raymond wrote:

I am curious about people's views on these various new WWW-based genealogy
services, where you input your family information via the WWW into some
database held by the WWW service provider.

Hi Kerry

I'm one of those people who use a web-based system (PhpGedView [PGV]),
but I also use a home-based system. I'm really having a bob each way.

When I started to record family stuff (1999) the only real way was by
using some sort of home-based system. I experimented with most of the
commercial offerings, and finally settled for FTM (all-in-one was good
for small trees, a strong data container, but not much else), Legacy (so
I could use Access to manipulate data, it offered very little else), and
RootsMagic (blinding speed for complex tasks). I tried others, but found
most of them lacking in some regard.

Then I discovered PGV. For the uninitiated, this is an application that
resides on a server, probably at your ISP. You then feed it a GEDCOM of
your family records, and users who log on to your site get family data
in typical forms - families, descendants, ancestors etc. The real value
(to me, at least) of PGV is that it can be collaborative - you can allow
users to contribute directly. Oh, and the application is free. Your ISP
might charge you for the space (maybe $5 a month, less than your mobile
ringtones...)

PGV is one such application. There is at least one other. But they are
the start of web-based family data storage and manipulation.

There is a discussion currently under way on SourceForge (an open source
software repository) about the benefits/disbenefits of this approach. I
was surprised to find that, having got their system working by uploading
a GEDCOM from a home-based application, some people are now relying
totally on something like PGV, and abandoning their home-based system.

Hmmm. I'm not that brave (just yet) but obviously they have some form of
insurance - a backed-up copy someplace. I'm sure I would. But, as
companies like Microsoft mull over "lease/use" practices (lease their
software, use their server space) it is becoming obvious that this form
of computing will become more prevalent.

And of course, there are the dodgy companies - already among us - who
might start out honest, and then seem the possibilities of increasing
turnover by...you get the picture.

The only obstacle will be to convince folk to trust server providers
when it comes to data integrity, a sound business model, and privacy. No
small task, but then who would have imagined the extent to which the
internet and iPods would take over our lives?

Paul

[Paul Blair]

Kerry Raymond wrote:

I am curious about people's views on these various new WWW-based genealogy
services, where you input your family information via the WWW into some
database held by the WWW service provider.

Hi Kerry

I'm one of those people who use a web-based system (PhpGedView [PGV]),
but I also use a home-based system. I'm really having a bob each way.

When I started to record family stuff (1999) the only real way was by
using some sort of home-based system. I experimented with most of the
commercial offerings, and finally settled for FTM (all-in-one was good
for small trees, a strong data container, but not much else), Legacy (so
I could use Access to manipulate data, it offered very little else), and
RootsMagic (blinding speed for complex tasks). I tried others, but found
most of them lacking in some regard.

Then I discovered PGV. For the uninitiated, this is an application that
resides on a server, probably at your ISP. You then feed it a GEDCOM of
your family records, and users who log on to your site get family data
in typical forms - families, descendants, ancestors etc. The real value
(to me, at least) of PGV is that it can be collaborative - you can allow
users to contribute directly. Oh, and the application is free. Your ISP
might charge you for the space (maybe $5 a month, less than your mobile
ringtones...)

PGV is one such application. There is at least one other. But they are
the start of web-based family data storage and manipulation.

There is a discussion currently under way on SourceForge (an open source
software repository) about the benefits/disbenefits of this approach. I
was surprised to find that, having got their system working by uploading
a GEDCOM from a home-based application, some people are now relying
totally on something like PGV, and abandoning their home-based system.

Hmmm. I'm not that brave (just yet) but obviously they have some form of
insurance - a backed-up copy someplace. I'm sure I would. But, as
companies like Microsoft mull over "lease/use" practices (lease their
software, use their server space) it is becoming obvious that this form
of computing will become more prevalent.

And of course, there are the dodgy companies - already among us - who
might start out honest, and then see the possibilities of increasing
turnover by...you get the picture.

The only obstacle will be to convince folk to trust server providers
when it comes to data integrity, a sound business model, and privacy. No
small task, but then who would have imagined the extent to which the
internet and iPods would take over our lives?

Paul

[Hugh Watkins]

always back up
home and away

paid sites get deleted when you die
I use http://wc.rootsweb.com/
home stuff gets lost when your computer dies

For the trivial annual subscription
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/genesreunited.asp

has proved much cheaper than any other -- or buying certificates
you have to be patient with the newbies
who ask about big names like James Jones



Hugh W


Paul Blair wrote:

Kerry Raymond wrote:

I am curious about people's views on these various new WWW-based
genealogy services, where you input your family information via the
WWW into some database held by the WWW service provider.


Hi Kerry

I'm one of those people who use a web-based system (PhpGedView [PGV]),
but I also use a home-based system. I'm really having a bob each way.

When I started to record family stuff (1999) the only real way was by
using some sort of home-based system. I experimented with most of the
commercial offerings, and finally settled for FTM (all-in-one was good
for small trees, a strong data container, but not much else), Legacy (so
I could use Access to manipulate data, it offered very little else), and
RootsMagic (blinding speed for complex tasks). I tried others, but found
most of them lacking in some regard.

Then I discovered PGV. For the uninitiated, this is an application that
resides on a server, probably at your ISP. You then feed it a GEDCOM of
your family records, and users who log on to your site get family data
in typical forms - families, descendants, ancestors etc. The real value
(to me, at least) of PGV is that it can be collaborative - you can allow
users to contribute directly. Oh, and the application is free. Your ISP
might charge you for the space (maybe $5 a month, less than your mobile
ringtones...)

PGV is one such application. There is at least one other. But they are
the start of web-based family data storage and manipulation.

There is a discussion currently under way on SourceForge (an open source
software repository) about the benefits/disbenefits of this approach. I
was surprised to find that, having got their system working by uploading
a GEDCOM from a home-based application, some people are now relying
totally on something like PGV, and abandoning their home-based system.

Hmmm. I'm not that brave (just yet) but obviously they have some form of
insurance - a backed-up copy someplace. I'm sure I would. But, as
companies like Microsoft mull over "lease/use" practices (lease their
software, use their server space) it is becoming obvious that this form
of computing will become more prevalent.

And of course, there are the dodgy companies - already among us - who
might start out honest, and then see the possibilities of increasing
turnover by...you get the picture.

The only obstacle will be to convince folk to trust server providers
when it comes to data integrity, a sound business model, and privacy. No
small task, but then who would have imagined the extent to which the
internet and iPods would take over our lives?

Paul

--

new computer = new blog
http://mac-on-intel.blogspot.com/

daily blogs with new photos
http://snaps2006.blogspot.com/
http://slim2005.blogspot.com/

family history
http://hughw36.blogspot.com

[Kerry Raymond]

I'm one of those people who use a web-based system (PhpGedView [PGV]),

I originally wasn't thinking of PGV in this category, because it's driven
from data sourced from elsewhere. I was thinking more about where the WWW
service was the primary data store.

I was surprised to find that, having got their system working by uploading
a GEDCOM from a home-based application, some people are now relying
totally on something like PGV, and abandoning their home-based system.

But maybe I should be thinking of such systems if people abandon the home
approach. But I guess these are still systems under the control of the user.
You choose to install PGV after all.

The only obstacle will be to convince folk to trust server providers
when it comes to data integrity, a sound business model, and privacy.

I guess this is my question -- how convinced are people of these things? But
I guess asking in this newsgroup may be the wrong place. My observations is
that the users of these WWW-based genealogy services seem to be starting out
with genealogy, probably aren't asking themselves the questions about
business models, data integrity and privacy, and probably aren't in
newsgroups like this.

Kerry