Why use software for geneaology?

[Gjest]

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:21:05 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

Sure.

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

Can't be done, or can't be done conveniently? How about this - show me
all of the people in my database at now +3 generations that don't have a
death date listed. Show me all women who had more than 5 kids.
Instantly give me the relation between two people. Share data
seamlessly with research partners, as in a genealogy society or website.

Dozens more, depending on what app and what you're doing.

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

I'm not sure, other than as a contact manager - the commercial and
open-source genealogy apps out there are excellent for the purpose.

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

Not the only, surely, but I'm generally a roll-my-own-software guy, and
_I_ went out and bought an app. I'd rather spend my time not
re-inventing the wheel.

Dave Hinz

[Doug McDonald]

[email protected] wrote:

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

Easy copy of vast quantities of data, for sharing.

Doug McDonald

[Gjest]

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

Not the only, surely, but I'm generally a roll-my-own-software guy, and
_I_ went out and bought an app. I'd rather spend my time not
re-inventing the wheel.

Dave Hinz

OK Dave.... thank for that insight. can you tell I'm
just starting out with all this? <G>

OK...so I guess second question is... WHAT software/
What brand and version?

What I'm concerned abt is that I get started down this
path with a certain brand of software... add hundreds
of names and data. Then maybe I don't like the app so
well and want to switch to something else. Will all of
these applications share the same data no problem? I
don't want to type al that info in again. See what I
mean?

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

Advice?

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:44:52 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Not the only, surely, but I'm generally a roll-my-own-software guy, and
_I_ went out and bought an app. I'd rather spend my time not
re-inventing the wheel.

OK Dave.... thank for that insight. can you tell I'm
just starting out with all this? <G

Been there, done that.

OK...so I guess second question is... WHAT software/
What brand and version?

Depends on your OS. I finally switched to Mac so I could use Reunion -
it's staggeringly good. In the Windows world, PAF and Legacy both have
free versions, and are both very good - PAF is better for data entry,
Legacy has better reports. FTM (Family Tree Maker), the retail
favorite, has many customers but seems to have many _unhappy_ customers,
based on posts here. The Master Genealogist (TMG) is known to be
excellently done but perhaps not as easy to get started with as some
others.

What I'm concerned abt is that I get started down this
path with a certain brand of software... add hundreds
of names and data. Then maybe I don't like the app so
well and want to switch to something else. Will all of
these applications share the same data no problem?

All of the current software supports the GEDCOM "standard", which isn't
a very good or complete or well-followed standard. I can import a
GEDCOM from wherever, into another program, with a bit of fiddling
around to get the unusual or custom fields to come out right. I
wouldn't want to do it all the time, but you're not held hostage to any
one genealogy app by any means, as long as they support GEDCOM import
and export.

I
don't want to type al that info in again. See what I
mean?

Yup.

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

If you ever find something that those don't do, and which the add-on
products for each don't do (PAF Companion, and Legacy Deluxe), then you
can buy the add-on, or consider switching to something else at that
point. I was using PAF and Legacy for 5 years before I finally had a
need outside of the standard builds, though.

Advice?

Double your money back if you don't like it

Dave

[Hugh Watkins]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

use any old rubbish you like

but there are standard formats
which dedicated programs do best
$29 sinle cd FTM 2005 or PAF which is free
are good for newbies

http://wc.rootsweb.com/

LAPHAM
one-name study
http://lapham2005.blogspot.com/

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lapham

can't do that on paper with instant availability for the whole world

Hugh W

[Gjest]

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

If you ever find something that those don't do, and which the add-on
products for each don't do (PAF Companion, and Legacy Deluxe), then you
can buy the add-on, or consider switching to something else at that
point. I was using PAF and Legacy for 5 years before I finally had a
need outside of the standard builds, though.

OK

Another question.....

If I continue to use Legacy 5..... or upgrade to the
paid version..... can I export all that info to some
kind of web content?

After all..... id want to easily share all my research
and info with my siblings. And that best done via the
Net. So I want something that can spit out a complete
we page or blog for me.

More advice?

[Gjest]

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?


Easy copy of vast quantities of data, for sharing.

yep

that's a biggie isn't it?

[Paul Blair]

Hugh Watkins wrote:

[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?


use any old rubbish you like

but there are standard formats
which dedicated programs do best
$29 sinle cd FTM 2005 or PAF which is free
are good for newbies

http://wc.rootsweb.com/

LAPHAM
one-name study
http://lapham2005.blogspot.com/

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lapham

can't do that on paper with instant availability for the whole world

Hugh W

Legacy stores data in MS Access (current format) which means that you
can then create all sorts of personalized reports, if you have some
Access skills. Access is about to become another sort of beast, so there
may be some changes to Legacy in the next 12 months.

Another way of sharing is to use GEDCOM as a feed to phpGedView. Go to
http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/ to read about that. But, briefly,
this allows to to do some web things (including privacy and
collaboration) that can be quite useful for research between a number of
people.

Paul Blair
Canberra
Australia

[Gjest]

Legacy stores data in MS Access (current format) which means that you
can then create all sorts of personalized reports, if you have some
Access skills. Access is about to become another sort of beast, so there
may be some changes to Legacy in the next 12 months.

Cool! yes I do know a bit abt Access. Not much but
some

Another way of sharing is to use GEDCOM as a feed to phpGedView. Go to
http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/ to read about that. But, briefly,
this allows to to do some web things (including privacy and
collaboration) that can be quite useful for research between a number of

Hmm.... I'm not versed at all in Linux based apps or OS

Anything like that above for Windows?

[Gjest]

Another way of sharing is to use GEDCOM as a feed to phpGedView. Go to
http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/ to read about that. But, briefly,
this allows to to do some web things (including privacy and
collaboration) that can be quite useful for research between a number of
people.

That's pretty interesting above!!

If I had such a setup above does that mean my sister
and me could add and edit info to the sight even tho we
live miles away from each other? In other words we
could collaborate?

Another idea I had was to use Wiki software for
genealogy. Is the above kind of a wiki?

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:21:05 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

The devil's advocate would say why you shouldn't use it.

The advantages of using a computer to keep track of your genealogy are:

1) You have an up-to-date record of the latest state of your research in one
place

2) If you get new information about a person who may fit, you can search your
records quickly to see what you already have (searching paper records takes
much longer)

3) Printing a family group sheet on a computer is a lot quicker and easier
than writing it out by hand, even on a pre-printed form

4) Printing a family group sheet to a .pdf file to send as an e-mail
attachment is also quicker and easier when communicating with cousins on other
continents

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

See above

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

Possibly, I'm not familiar with it, though, so can't say for sure.

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

If you want to record genealogy, it's the most important route, but "route" is
not the best imagery, because of you choose one route for a journey, you
automatically choose not to go down the others. Using software for genealogy
is not like that. Think of it rather as a set of tools to use.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:26:06 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

If you ever find something that those don't do, and which the add-on
products for each don't do (PAF Companion, and Legacy Deluxe), then you
can buy the add-on, or consider switching to something else at that
point. I was using PAF and Legacy for 5 years before I finally had a
need outside of the standard builds, though.

OK

Another question.....

If I continue to use Legacy 5..... or upgrade to the
paid version..... can I export all that info to some
kind of web content?

After all..... id want to easily share all my research
and info with my siblings. And that best done via the
Net. So I want something that can spit out a complete
we page or blog for me.

Well now, just try to do that with all your paper records.

Legacy can do it, and can export to a variety of formats that you can use
other software on.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Paul Blair]

[email protected] wrote:

Another way of sharing is to use GEDCOM as a feed to phpGedView. Go to
http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/ to read about that. But, briefly,
this allows to to do some web things (including privacy and
collaboration) that can be quite useful for research between a number of
people.


That's pretty interesting above!!

If I had such a setup above does that mean my sister
and me could add and edit info to the sight even tho we
live miles away from each other? In other words we
could collaborate?

Another idea I had was to use Wiki software for
genealogy. Is the above kind of a wiki?

phpGedView has now been included in Debian, but most of us use Windows.
As for collaboration, the anwer is "yes" You can set levels of access
for users, and that can include an on-line edit feature for whomever you
choose. Edits are then notified to you (as the admin) and you can react
as you please. Doesn't stop family fights, just makes them quicker.

Contact me off list if you want to know more.

Paul Blair

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:50:44 +1000, Paul Blair <[email protected]>
declaimed the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

Legacy stores data in MS Access (current format) which means that you
can then create all sorts of personalized reports, if you have some

Properly, Legacy uses M$ JET for the database engine. Access is
a GUI database design tool and report writer that uses JET as the native
database engine (Access "projects" use M$ SQL Server as the engine; one
can also link in other data base engines/data using ODBC -- including
the Visual FoxPro tables used by TMG).

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Hugh Watkins]

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:21:05 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

The devil's advocate would say why you shouldn't use it.

The advantages of using a computer to keep track of your genealogy are:

1) You have an up-to-date record of the latest state of your research in
one
place

2) If you get new information about a person who may fit, you can search
your
records quickly to see what you already have (searching paper records
takes
much longer)

3) Printing a family group sheet on a computer is a lot quicker and easier
than writing it out by hand, even on a pre-printed form

4) Printing a family group sheet to a .pdf file to send as an e-mail
attachment is also quicker and easier when communicating with cousins on
other
continents

What neat and invaluable thing scan software and
computer do that cant be done with paper?

See above

Also.... dumb question on my part.... but can a contact
manager application such as ACT! be used for genealogy
purposes?

Possibly, I'm not familiar with it, though, so can't say for sure.

Or is specialized genealogy software the only route to
go?

If you want to record genealogy, it's the most important route, but
"route" is
not the best imagery, because of you choose one route for a journey, you
automatically choose not to go down the others. Using software for
genealogy
is not like that. Think of it rather as a set of tools to use.

the BG DISADVANTAGE is when the hard disk fails
and they all do eventaully if you havenot got proper back ups you lose the
lot


hence wc.rootsweb.com has saved many a skin by having a downloadable copy of
your own data

the other good source of back ups is UK county lists and message baords too
if you post your research results they are there for all to find

If your siister and you bothe join groups you may discuss and access from
anywhere in the world

msn messenger is good for family cahts too
- saves phone bills - international in my case

Hugh W

[Dave Hinz]

If you ever find something that those don't do, and which the add-on
products for each don't do (PAF Companion, and Legacy Deluxe), then you
can buy the add-on, or consider switching to something else at that
point. I was using PAF and Legacy for 5 years before I finally had a
need outside of the standard builds, though.

OK > > Another question.....

If I continue to use Legacy 5..... or upgrade to the
paid version..... can I export all that info to some
kind of web content?

Yes, google for "gedcom to html" for options. I like phpgedview, but to
use that you need to have a php enabled webserver, which some ISPs
haven't caught on to yet. Do you have a web provider?

After all..... id want to easily share all my research
and info with my siblings. And that best done via the
Net. So I want something that can spit out a complete
we page or blog for me.

There ya go. So, biggest thing, although you didn't really ask this -
make sure you source how you know everything you put in there. A time
_will_ come when you find conflicting information to your database, and
you will want to be able to decide which is right based on how you got
the info that's in there. Trust me on this one.

More advice?

Poke around & see which genealogy data sites you like; most will somehow
or another tell you what was used to create them. PAF makes webpages
that are tolerable, but there are some really nice ones out there which
depend on what your webserver infrastructure options are.

Dave Hinz

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:29:16 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Another way of sharing is to use GEDCOM as a feed to phpGedView. Go to
http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/ to read about that. But, briefly,
this allows to to do some web things (including privacy and
collaboration) that can be quite useful for research between a number of
people.

That's pretty interesting above!!

Isn't that loverly?

If I had such a setup above does that mean my sister
and me could add and edit info to the sight even tho we
live miles away from each other? In other words we
could collaborate?

Absolutely.

Another idea I had was to use Wiki software for
genealogy. Is the above kind of a wiki?

Well, the webserver needs, I think, exactly the same things installed as
you would for a wiki, but it's different enough to be different. I'd
love to see a wiki plugin to it, or it as a plugin to a wiki...

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:04:46 -0000, Hugh Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Using software for genealogy
is not like that. Think of it rather as a set of tools to use.

the BG DISADVANTAGE is when the hard disk fails
and they all do eventaully if you havenot got proper back ups you lose the
lot

Everyone should back up their important data. If it's more work than
you'd want to re-type, it's time to back up again. CD-R disks are what,
a dime each?

hence wc.rootsweb.com has saved many a skin by having a downloadable copy of
your own data

the other good source of back ups is UK county lists and message baords too
if you post your research results they are there for all to find

If they're on a CD in someone else's house, it's faster and more secure.
My parents and I use each others homes as off-site backup/archive sites.

[Larry]

I just joined this group and see that your question has received a lot
of good responses. One issue that I haven't read is about privacy.
Most genealogy software allows you to record all the data but when you
go to publish it [on or off the web] it provides a place for you to
omit details about any person living. This is very important and
considered proper unless the living person has given permission for his
info to be shared. You can't be too careful in this day of privacy
issues. I really like using The Master Genealogist but if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy. Before
using TMG, I used Brother's Keeper, which is a shareware program. I
still use it for making some of the reports.

[Denis Beauregard]

Le Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:24:47 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber
<[email protected]> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.computing:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:50:44 +1000, Paul Blair <[email protected]
declaimed the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

Legacy stores data in MS Access (current format) which means that you
can then create all sorts of personalized reports, if you have some

Properly, Legacy uses M$ JET for the database engine. Access is
a GUI database design tool and report writer that uses JET as the native
database engine (Access "projects" use M$ SQL Server as the engine; one
can also link in other data base engines/data using ODBC -- including
the Visual FoxPro tables used by TMG).

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.


Denis

[Gjest]

There ya go. So, biggest thing, although you didn't really ask this -
make sure you source how you know everything you put in there. A time
_will_ come when you find conflicting information to your database, and
you will want to be able to decide which is right based on how you got
the info that's in there. Trust me on this one.

OK

But can you give me an example of how to "source"
something?

[Gjest]

Well, the webserver needs, I think, exactly the same things installed as
you would for a wiki, but it's different enough to be different. I'd
love to see a wiki plugin to it, or it as a plugin to a wiki...

Well you guys have CINVINCED me that I should do this
as a collaborative effort and do it by using software
that will allow that.

Bottom line.... I don't want this data to exist on my
single desktop PC alone. Id want it to exist on the web
where any family member could add or edit it. That is
so cool!!

And that should help take some load off me for creating
the info huh?

As far as the wiki goes..... those things really
intrigue me as well. I can se all kinds of potential
uses for wikis. I was doing some reading on them and
came across this one. See link

http://twiki.org/

Click on some of the links in web page above. Many many
uses for this technology!! Why cant we use it for
genealogy as well?

I'm wondering if I could just rent some space on a
server that already has Twiki on it for my personal use
only? That way I don't have to install or maintain.
Nor do I need a computer on 24/7 at home. Advice?

Anyway.... thanks so much to everyone for your help!!
I'm definitely a bit wiser abt how to approach this
now.

[Gjest]

Legacy stores data in MS Access (current format) which means that you
can then create all sorts of personalized reports, if you have some

Properly, Legacy uses M$ JET for the database engine.

is Legacy the only app that uses the Access engine as
its base?

I guess what I'm asking is.... do al the other
genealogy apps use a proprietary database format for
there data?

[Gjest]

If you want to record genealogy, it's the most important route, but "route" is
not the best imagery, because of you choose one route for a journey, you
automatically choose not to go down the others. Using software for genealogy
is not like that. Think of it rather as a set of tools to use.

OK thanks for advice!

You al have definitely convinced me to forget abt doing
this using paper. ha!

[Gjest]

if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy.

Why Legacy?

Is it cause its just THAT good?

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

[singhals]

[email protected] wrote:

There ya go. So, biggest thing, although you didn't really ask this -
make sure you source how you know everything you put in there. A time
_will_ come when you find conflicting information to your database, and
you will want to be able to decide which is right based on how you got
the info that's in there. Trust me on this one.


OK

But can you give me an example of how to "source"
something?

Much as you sourced term papers in HS or College/University.

Each fact gets a footnote and the footnote says something along the
lines of "Seventh Census of the US, Pennsylvania, Adams County, Polo
township, page 210A, line 14, dated 15 Jun 1860" or "Swearingen, Henry
H., 'The Swearingen Family Tree', 1889: Seattle, np; pg 327" or even
"Family Bible, printed 1804, now in possession of Great-Aunt, Susana V.
Holdit of East Dry Prong, Louisiana, USA."

HTH

Cheryl

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy.

Why Legacy?

Is it cause its just THAT good?

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

The fact is that most people prefer the software that they use a
lot.... maybe it's because it's good and that's why they started using
it, or maybe it's because they are very familiar with it. I don't
really like Legacy, but then, I've only got the free version and
really haven't used it a lot. I like Rootsmagic, it's easy to use and
pretty comprehensive in how it lets you search your data (a very
important point for me). I also like TMG, but again, because I haven't
used it a lot, I find it difficult to use. I really don't like a lot
about FTM, but find that I still use it a lot because I'm familiar
with it.... I switched to it when I quit using the DOS version of
PAF... but I really wish I had NOT started with FTM. It's searching
features are awful. I actually export the database to an Access file
about once a year and use Access for any real searches, or do the
searches in RootsMagic.

My advice would be to start with a package that has a LOT of features,
like TMG or RM..... After you get familiar with it, you'll appreciate
the features. If you start with an "easy" program to use, you'll
regret the lack of features in time.
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

[Lars Erik Bryld]

Scripsit [email protected]:

is Legacy the only app that uses the Access engine as
its base?

I guess what I'm asking is.... do al the other
genealogy apps use a proprietary database format for
there data?

The Master Genealogist uses FoxPro database format. Genbox Family
History uses Access 2000 database format. I believe most others use
udocumented databases, but I doubt they've all invented their own
formats.

--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:59:02 -0500, [email protected] declaimed the
following in soc.genealogy.computing:

I guess what I'm asking is.... do al the other
genealogy apps use a proprietary database format for
there data?

TMG uses Visual FoxPro (version 5+ use the 32 bit version;
versions prior to TMG5, and the discontinued UFT, used 16-bit Visual
FoxPro).

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:16:32 -0400, Denis Beauregard
<[email protected]> declaimed the following in
soc.genealogy.computing:

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.

I'd done it once, years ago (Legacy 2 or 3)... But they may have

started encrypting the contents, or require the most recent version of
JET/Access for some features.

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On 30 Jul 2005 10:53:33 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> declaimed
the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

Everyone should back up their important data. If it's more work than
you'd want to re-type, it's time to back up again. CD-R disks are what,
a dime each?

One should back-up the entire computer, not just small chunks of

data... Unfortunately, my system has reached the point where incremental
backups require multiple DVD-Rs, not just CD-Rs <G>

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02:07 -0500, [email protected] declaimed the
following in soc.genealogy.computing:

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

Well, it's a fairly modern program -- not saddled by trying stay
compatible with programs that started life in the days of 16-bit MS-DOS.
AND there is a free starter version... Unlike FTM -- which, while cheap
initially, wants you to keep paying for the annual upgrades that are
minimal function changes.

I've not looked at it in years (not since I switched from UFT to
TMG, since the owners of UFT discontinued it in favor of FTM/FTW -- at
the time, score cards rated FTM at the bottom, and UFT was tied with TMG
at the top).

TMG's forte is that it is flexible -- you can decide what
information you need to record. TMG (and UFT) are EVENT programs, not
FAMILY program -- most others are family based. Many others start with a
page that consists of:

husband info
wife info
children

That is, the basic data entry assumes there is a "marriage" by which to
link things. TMG works on individuals and links them via events, and one
can create new events as needed -- you want to track medical data, you
could create a "doctor visit" event and insert them as needed.

I've toyed with doing the history of Standard Oil in it...

Standard Oil
<splits into "children", then the original dies>

<"children" "marry" merge, then take on a new name and one
"dies">

etc...

I do recall that I was not impressed by the sparse phrasing of
Legacy's reports back in those days... Very blunt, and somewhat
unpleasant to read. Of course, I'd been spoiled by UFT's Family Journal
report -- not even TMG has matched that (TMG is close, but where UFT
took the effort to keep surnames under one chapter, TMG puts marriages
and descents into the /first/ appearance with the result that:

Family ABC Family XYZ
.... ...
female ABC marries male XYZ male XYZ marries female ABC
-- child1 XYZ -- see ABC for continuation
-- child2 XYZ

UFT would have put the continuation note under female ABC, and
the XYZ children would still be under the XYZ chapter)



--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Lars Erik Bryld]

Scripsit [email protected]:

Bottom line.... I don't want this data to exist on my
single desktop PC alone. Id want it to exist on the web
where any family member could add or edit it. That is
so cool!!

And that should help take some load off me for creating
the info huh?

As far as the wiki goes..... those things really
intrigue me as well. I can se all kinds of potential
uses for wikis.

Seems like a severe bout of acute wikiphilia. It'll pass given
adequate time, though. Take it from one who's been there and still
recovers. See:

http://www.hacknot.info/hacknot/action/showEntry?eid=71

As for online genealogy databases with editing, I only know of two:
1) PhpGedView, which I use myself, but only for display purposes.
2) The Next Generation, a not-free similar thingie, which I haven't
personally tried out, but it has received honorable mention by one of
its users, who wrote in a local genealogy magazine I subscribe to.
There's a demo to try out:

http://lythgoes.net/genealogy/demo.php

--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

[Gjest]

That is, the basic data entry assumes there is a "marriage" by which to
link things. TMG works on individuals and links them via events, and one
can create new events as needed -- you want to track medical data, you
could create a "doctor visit" event and insert them as needed.

Hmm..... maybe I just better start with the king of em
all and get TMG huh?

[Gjest]

Seems like a severe bout of acute wikiphilia. It'll pass given
adequate time, though. Take it from one who's been there and still
recovers. See:

http://www.hacknot.info/hacknot/action/showEntry?eid=71

Hahaha! I read the above link and it was good! Much
to think abt there

As for online genealogy databases with editing, I only know of two:
1) PhpGedView, which I use myself, but only for display purposes.

So does this mean the idea of using PhpGedView is not
such a good one? That doing collaboration online with
my siblings is NOT gonna work?

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:40:45 -0500, [email protected] declaimed the
following in soc.genealogy.computing:

Hmm..... maybe I just better start with the king of em
all and get TMG huh?

At least, don't discount it as "too complex to start with"...

If the owners of UFT had bothered to upgrade it for 32-bit
Windows, rather than dumping it, I'd still be using it.

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

Seems like a severe bout of acute wikiphilia. It'll pass given
adequate time, though. Take it from one who's been there and still
recovers. See:

http://www.hacknot.info/hacknot/action/showEntry?eid=71

Hahaha! I read the above link and it was good! Much
to think abt there

As for online genealogy databases with editing, I only know of two:
1) PhpGedView, which I use myself, but only for display purposes.

So does this mean the idea of using PhpGedView is not
such a good one? That doing collaboration online with
my siblings is NOT gonna work?

Not at all. You _do_ have to do a bit of work, setting up access permissions,
but collaboration is easy to accomplish. A nice thing about phpGedView is
that it's written in an architecture neutral language (php) and will run on
just about any webserver on any operating system. I've chosen to host my own
webserver with phpGedView, but you may wish to find a webhosting service that
does that for you. The phpGedView folks have links to numerous sites using
their application at http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net. Go there, then click
on the "Sites Using PhpGedView" link.

Bob Melson

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Lars Erik Bryld]

Scripsit [email protected]:

As for online genealogy databases with editing, I only know of two:
1) PhpGedView, which I use myself, but only for display purposes.

So does this mean the idea of using PhpGedView is not such a good
one? That doing collaboration online with my siblings is NOT gonna
work?

I couldn't say. I simply haven't had any experience with using the
online editing features of PhpGedView, because I don't collaborate
(directly) with others. I have just had a quick browse, and they do
seem to work as intended. The Next Generation also seem to do the
exact same things.


--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

[Doug McDonald]

[email protected] wrote:

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

Advice?

Keep playing with what you have. Don't install anything
which is not text into your files, just yet. Don't be fancy.
If you don't get real fancy your data should transfer to other programs
(except maybe Family Tree Maker) just fine. If you don't like
like the free programs, try the cheapest versions of the others.
Eventually true the fancy things, just a little.

Once you are absolutely sure that you like a program, then you
can install things like pictures that won't transfer well.

Doug McDonald

[cecilia]

Dave Hinz wrote:

[...] PAF is better for data entry,
Legacy has better reports. [...]

It was the fact that I could input a collection of data from a single
source faster with Legacy than I could with PAF that caused me to move
from PAF to Legacy.

[Paul Blair]

[email protected] wrote:

If you want to record genealogy, it's the most important route, but "route" is
not the best imagery, because of you choose one route for a journey, you
automatically choose not to go down the others. Using software for genealogy
is not like that. Think of it rather as a set of tools to use.


OK thanks for advice!

You al have definitely convinced me to forget abt doing
this using paper. ha!

The world of Windows-based software is probably in for some major
changes in the next 18 months. The beta of Windows Vista is now being
distributed - it is huge (DVDs will be required for distribution, not
CDs) and different.

Not everyone will rush to 64-bit software, but changes to document
formats will mean the major writers will need to make some (tough)
choices about new software, and how to cope with (small-l) legacy offerings.

For my part, investment in soft and hardware is on hold for now, until I
can get a better idea of just what will be involved.

Paul Blair
Canberra
Australia

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:49:58 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

There ya go. So, biggest thing, although you didn't really ask this -
make sure you source how you know everything you put in there. A time
_will_ come when you find conflicting information to your database, and
you will want to be able to decide which is right based on how you got
the info that's in there. Trust me on this one.

OK

But can you give me an example of how to "source"
something?

"Source" as a verb is an undesirable phenomenon.

But if you really want to do it, you make a list of potential suppliers of the
thing, and find out if they will sell it to you, and for how much.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy.

Why Legacy?

Is it cause its just THAT good?

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

The advantage of Legacy is the price.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to find it doesn't work for you (as I
found with TMG).

With Legacy, you try it, and if you're happy with it, you stick to it. If
you're not, you can change to something else.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:16:32 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]>
wrote:

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.

I tried and failed.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 11:46:13 +1000, Paul Blair <[email protected]> wrote:

The world of Windows-based software is probably in for some major
changes in the next 18 months. The beta of Windows Vista is now being
distributed - it is huge (DVDs will be required for distribution, not
CDs) and different.

Not everyone will rush to 64-bit software, but changes to document
formats will mean the major writers will need to make some (tough)
choices about new software, and how to cope with (small-l) legacy offerings.

And that's a good reason for avoiding software that requires "activation".

Like the copy-protected software of old, it means that there is a distinct
danger that your data could become inaccessible.

My Office 97 disc was stolen a couple of months ago, and I'm trying to get
hold of another one. But if it was one of those "activate" ones, there could
be much more serious problems.




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Hugh Watkins]

I never install pictures
and if I get sent a file with pictures
I export a gedcom to get a clean file

and reimport (of course I keep the original source)

Hugh W

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[email protected] wrote:

Right now I'm playing with the free version of Legacy
5. And the free software you can get off the LDS
church site.

Advice?

Keep playing with what you have. Don't install anything
which is not text into your files, just yet. Don't be fancy.
If you don't get real fancy your data should transfer to other programs
(except maybe Family Tree Maker) just fine. If you don't like
like the free programs, try the cheapest versions of the others.
Eventually true the fancy things, just a little.

Once you are absolutely sure that you like a program, then you
can install things like pictures that won't transfer well.

Doug McDonald

[Doug McDonald]

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.

I tried 30 seconds ago, and succeeded. Latest version of Legacy.
You open Access, and use File Open to open the file.

Doug McDonald

[Robert Heiling]

Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:16:32 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]
wrote:

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.

I tried and failed.

If I recall what was said here 'back when' correctly, it requires a
later version (2000?) of MS Access. I can't open it using my Office '97
version and I see that you stated here in another post that you use '97
also. Success will be reported by those who use that later version.

Bob

[Robert Heiling]

Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy.

Why Legacy?

Is it cause its just THAT good?

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

The advantage of Legacy is the price.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to find it doesn't work for you (as I
found with TMG).

With Legacy, you try it, and if you're happy with it, you stick to it. If
you're not, you can change to something else.

In fairness, a correction in regard to TMG. In more recent times, there
is a fully-enabled trial version of TMG 6.01 available. Go to:
http://www.whollygenes.com/tmg.htm to download a version that is
identical to the paid-for version except for a 30-day timeout.

Bob

[Rachel Alliston]

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
::
: I tried 30 seconds ago, and succeeded. Latest version of Legacy.
: You open Access, and use File Open to open the file.
:
: Doug McDonald

Pardon my ignorance here but can you please give exact details how you did
this. What file extension should I be using for the Legacy file? (FDB, FG
etc!) And the details how to import into Access would be appreciated. I
have the latest v of Legacy and Access 2003.

However I won't know an answer to this "Dumb" question if I don't ask!!!:-)

TIA
Rachel Alliston
Australia

[Robert Heiling]

Rachel Alliston wrote:

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
::
: I tried 30 seconds ago, and succeeded. Latest version of Legacy.
: You open Access, and use File Open to open the file.
:
: Doug McDonald

Pardon my ignorance here but can you please give exact details how you did
this. What file extension should I be using for the Legacy file? (FDB, FG
etc!) And the details how to import into Access would be appreciated. I
have the latest v of Legacy and Access 2003.

However I won't know an answer to this "Dumb" question if I don't ask!!!:-)

Where's your spirit of adventure and experimentation? Do you mean to say
that you haven't already made a separate duplicate copy of your Legacy
files and tried with those? People usually ask questions when they're
having trouble getting things to work. Why not ask then.

Bob

[Rachel Alliston]

"Robert Heiling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: : >
: > Pardon my ignorance here but can you please give exact details how you
did
: > this. What file extension should I be using for the Legacy file? (FDB,
FG
: > etc!) And the details how to import into Access would be appreciated.
I
: > have the latest v of Legacy and Access 2003.
: >
: > However I won't know an answer to this "Dumb" question if I don't
ask!!!:-)
:
: Where's your spirit of adventure and experimentation? Do you mean to say
: that you haven't already made a separate duplicate copy of your Legacy
: files and tried with those? People usually ask questions when they're
: having trouble getting things to work. Why not ask then.
:
: Bob

Hi Bob

I have tried and failed to get a satisfactory result. <g> Hence my
question. I was trying not to sound too incompetent.

Unfortunately I don't usually find Access as User Friendly as I would have
hoped!! This topic interested me as in the past I have only experimented
with GEDCOM files. Yes I have Backup files not all on Hard Disk!!

Yes, I have tried and am asking for Kindergarten instructions. <g>

Cheers
Rachel (whose spirit of adventure has been dampened trying to import this
file into Access unsuccessfully!)

[Paul Blair]

Rachel Alliston wrote:

"Robert Heiling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: :
: > Pardon my ignorance here but can you please give exact details how you
did
: > this. What file extension should I be using for the Legacy file? (FDB,
FG
: > etc!) And the details how to import into Access would be appreciated.
I
: > have the latest v of Legacy and Access 2003.
:
: > However I won't know an answer to this "Dumb" question if I don't
ask!!!:-)
:
: Where's your spirit of adventure and experimentation? Do you mean to say
: that you haven't already made a separate duplicate copy of your Legacy
: files and tried with those? People usually ask questions when they're
: having trouble getting things to work. Why not ask then.
:
: Bob

Hi Bob

I have tried and failed to get a satisfactory result. <g> Hence my
question. I was trying not to sound too incompetent.

Unfortunately I don't usually find Access as User Friendly as I would have
hoped!! This topic interested me as in the past I have only experimented
with GEDCOM files. Yes I have Backup files not all on Hard Disk!!

Yes, I have tried and am asking for Kindergarten instructions. <g

Cheers
Rachel (whose spirit of adventure has been dampened trying to import this
file into Access unsuccessfully!)

Right click on an xxxxx.fdb file (look in Legacy | Data folder) and Open
With MS Access. If you want a summary of the various tables, contact me
off-line.

Paul Blair
Canberra

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:54:52 -0700, Robert Heiling <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:16:32 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]
wrote:

Someone told me he tried to read a Legacy file from MS Access and
failed. I don't know why.

I tried and failed.

If I recall what was said here 'back when' correctly, it requires a
later version (2000?) of MS Access. I can't open it using my Office '97
version and I see that you stated here in another post that you use '97
also. Success will be reported by those who use that later version.

One of the problems of relational databases is that nothing is compatible with
anything. When my Paradox 4.5 stopped working, I tried to import the data
files into Access 97, and failed. There is no time to learn to use a new piece
of software before it is outdated and its data files are unusable. If one
tries to keep up with all the updates, there is no time left to collect data
anyway.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Gjest]

I never install pictures
and if I get sent a file with pictures
I export a gedcom to get a clean file

why so against pictures?

I would think (as a novice) that pictures make the
story much more interesting. No?

[Gjest]

I've chosen to host my own
webserver with phpGedView, but you may wish to find a webhosting service that
does that for you.

So you are saying that you have your own server PC
setting at your home that is on 24/7 and contains
phpGedView?

But that if I don't want to maintain my own
hardware....I could rent space on a server somewhere
else and just install phpGedView there?

If yes.... I would want to do that.... rent the space
for now. Any advice on who to rent space from for this
purpose?

[Gjest]

I couldn't say. I simply haven't had any experience with using the
online editing features of PhpGedView,

So could I use phpGedView as my main genealogy
software? Even if its only installed locally? And then
in the future use it online?

Or would I still have to use a desktop program such as
Legacy and then let phpGedView "convert" that data to a
"web-able" form?

I guess I'm a bit confused as to what exactly
phpGedView is. Whether it's a full blown genealogy app
that can be used locally or online as well. Or
whether its software that just takes the output of
other genealogy apps and makes it web-able?

[Gjest]

If the owners of UFT had bothered to upgrade it for 32-bit
Windows, rather than dumping it, I'd still be using it.

Not sure what you mean

Can u explain more?

[Gjest]

The advantage of Legacy is the price.

Do you use the free version?

Or the Pro version?

[Lesley Robertson]

<[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...

I never install pictures
and if I get sent a file with pictures
I export a gedcom to get a clean file

why so against pictures?

I would think (as a novice) that pictures make the
story much more interesting. No?

They take far too much room if integrated into any substantial tree. I keep
them separately and use them as needed.
Lesley Robertson

[Doug McDonald]

Rachel Alliston wrote:

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
::
: I tried 30 seconds ago, and succeeded. Latest version of Legacy.
: You open Access, and use File Open to open the file.
:
: Doug McDonald

Pardon my ignorance here but can you please give exact details how you did
this. What file extension should I be using for the Legacy file? (FDB, FG
etc!) And the details how to import into Access would be appreciated. I
have the latest v of Legacy and Access 2003.

However I won't know an answer to this "Dumb" question if I don't ask!!!:-)

TIA
Rachel Alliston
Australia

I am running Access 2000 so Access 2003 may be different.

You open Access 2000. It asks for a file. Cancel this and it will
give a blank workspace. Go to File, Open. In the File Name box
type *.* and click Open. Then navigate to the directory where your
file is. Then simply click on any .fdb file.

Doug

[Gjest]

The Next Generation also seem to do the
exact same things.

OK

I've finally had some time to research the above app.

I'm intrigued cause I thing TNG might be the bets way
for me to go. Its low cost to buy.... and hosting it
on a web server doesn't cost to much either. Cost is
abt $5 month

Using this combo above allows me to get started and to
have access to the files form ANY computer. As well as
allows my siblings to help me with the creation of our
family database.

before I dive in and pay for all this tho.... is there
anyone out there using The Next Generation and having
it web hosted? If yes.... has it worked out well for
you?

Boy I've sure learned a LOT! Thanks so much to
EVERYONE for the help!! Great group of people here!!

And.... if for some reason I decide to quit paying to
have it web hosted.... can I download al my "work" and
save them into gedcom files?

[singhals]

[email protected] wrote:

I never install pictures
and if I get sent a file with pictures
I export a gedcom to get a clean file


why so against pictures?

I would think (as a novice) that pictures make the
story much more interesting. No?

Having photos in the database means the database access is slower, the
database is larger and more ungainly, and moving files around to
accommodate changing needs becomes more bother that one wishes to go twice.

The story only needs to be interesting when you print it off for
publication/circulation. Put the fact that there are photos of this
person in the narrative/text section and even ID the specific photos,
but only insert them when you're working with output, not with raw data.

Cheryl

[Hugh Watkins]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I never install pictures
and if I get sent a file with pictures
I export a gedcom to get a clean file

why so against pictures?

I would think (as a novice) that pictures make the
story much more interesting. No?

two different kinds of data
http://wc.rootsweb.com/

pictures go well in albums

jpeg or bitmap for repro use

I have made a start here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hugh/

and here http://slim2005.blogspot.com/

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi? ... 6&id=I0290
is broken for now
I am experimenting with customization and a css
which is hiding all the data
(view source)


http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lapham

the older versions remains
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... index.html

and http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=:3011593 is OK


Hugh W

[Doug McDonald]

Steve Hayes wrote:

One of the problems of relational databases is that nothing is compatible with
anything.

That's not true. Lots of things are compatible. Of course, dueling
companies do make efforts to cause incompatibilities.

When my Paradox 4.5 stopped working, I tried to import the data
files into Access 97, and failed. There is no time to learn to use a new piece
of software before it is outdated and its data files are unusable. If one
tries to keep up with all the updates, there is no time left to collect data
anyway.

When my Paradox for Windows stopped working, I loaded the data I had
exported to text files to Access. I tried loading the files I had
exported to dBase format to Access and that worked too. Then I got
Paradox working again.

Of course, the PROGRAM I have for Paradox is a goner if Paradox itself
ever really stops working. And Access is less capable. But the data is
quite safe. (This is not genealogy, rather, my rock collection files.)

Doug McDonald

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:53:27 -0500, [email protected] declaimed the
following in soc.genealogy.computing:

If the owners of UFT had bothered to upgrade it for 32-bit
Windows, rather than dumping it, I'd still be using it.

Not sure what you mean

Can u explain more?

Ultimate Family Tree (UFT) was written to run on W3.x; it had
some problems on W9x machines with memory fragmentation (in my case, I
was good if it was the first application started after a reboot, but if
I'd run other applications it would crash trying to allocate memory).

Ownership of UFT (one of the two highest rated programs) went
through a few hands and finally ended up being owned by the same company
that bought up the rights to FTM... This company decided to keep FTM
(the lowest rated program in terms of features, but also the most
popular since it was being sold everywhere, cheaply -- and profitable
as it tended to get cosmetic upgrades yearly that cost almost as much as
just buying it new) -- the company dropped UFT development as they'd
have to do heavy rewriting to change it from 16-bit W3.x code-base
(including 16-bit Visual FoxPro) to 32-bit.

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Gjest]

I would think (as a novice) that pictures make the
story much more interesting. No?

two different kinds of data
http://wc.rootsweb.com/

pictures go well in albums

Not sure what you mean.

Are you implying that pics should be kept in albums
only? Nothing online?

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

I've chosen to host my own
webserver with phpGedView, but you may wish to find a webhosting service that
does that for you.

So you are saying that you have your own server PC
setting at your home that is on 24/7 and contains
phpGedView?

But that if I don't want to maintain my own
hardware....I could rent space on a server somewhere
else and just install phpGedView there?

If yes.... I would want to do that.... rent the space
for now. Any advice on who to rent space from for this
purpose?

Yep. There are plusses and minuses to both approaches, of course. For me,
the plusses of running my own web server far outweigh the minuses. As they
say, however, your mileage may vary (YMMV).

In assessing which approach is right for YOU, take into consideration, among
other things, your technical abilities - running a web server is no walk in
the park because of security concerns; cost, what hoops you have to jump
through to upload your gedcom/genealogy files to the remote host, etc. For
now, however, I'd suggest that you must walk before you can run, and that
involves selecting your genealogy software, learning to use it competently,
getting your information entered, as well as a host of other things. When
you've mastered the basics, then you can worry about collaboration and sharing
data in a public forum.

Renting space: there are a number of ways to go about this. Your internet
service provider may offer the service as part of your subscription or may
charge a modest additional monthly fee; RootsWeb serves submitted genealogy
information for free, I think; and there are other services out there which
will host/serve your web pages for a fee.

HTH,
Bob Melson

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

I couldn't say. I simply haven't had any experience with using the
online editing features of PhpGedView,

So could I use phpGedView as my main genealogy
software? Even if its only installed locally? And then
in the future use it online?

Only if you have a web server - either your own or on a remote system.
phpGedView is strictly web-based and, while it does have most of the bells
and whistles of a standalone genealogy program, is not, itself, a standalone.

Or would I still have to use a desktop program such as
Legacy and then let phpGedView "convert" that data to a
"web-able" form?

phpGedView operates on a gedcom, so any genealogy program that allows you to
export your data as a gedcom file will produce a file usable by phpGedView.

I guess I'm a bit confused as to what exactly
phpGedView is. Whether it's a full blown genealogy app
that can be used locally or online as well. Or
whether its software that just takes the output of
other genealogy apps and makes it web-able?

phpGedView is a full-blown genealogy application in that it allows for data
entry, does appropriate reports, archives your information, etc. BUT, it
requires a web-server in order to function, i.e., it's not a standalone
application like TNG or PAF or <insert name here>. I like it, but have to
tell you that it's not for the faint of heart or the novice.

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Lars Erik Bryld]

Scripsit Robert Melson:

phpGedView is a full-blown genealogy application in that it allows
for data entry, does appropriate reports, archives your
information, etc. BUT, it requires a web-server in order to
function, i.e., it's not a standalone application like TNG or PAF
or <insert name here>. I like it, but have to tell you that it's
not for the faint of heart or the novice.

*** ACRONYM WARNING ***

TNG = The Next Generation: a web script, TNG ~ PhpGedView
TMG = The Master Genealogist: a standalone Windows application

*** ACRONYM WARNING ***

That being said, a PHP-enabled web site comes pretty cheap these days.
I would probably get such a site and try out the free PhpGedView
before spending actual money on a standalone application - if I
positively knew I was going to collaborate with others, that is.

--
Lars Erik Bryld

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
Lars Erik Bryld <[email protected]> writes:

Scripsit Robert Melson:


*** ACRONYM WARNING ***

TNG = The Next Generation: a web script, TNG ~ PhpGedView
TMG = The Master Genealogist: a standalone Windows application

*** ACRONYM WARNING ***

Oops! Sorry 'bout that. Lars is exactly right - must be my lysdexia.

Apart from that, I stand by my comments: get started first, then worry about
collaboration via phpGedView or TNG or whatever. I'd also suggest you ask
your potential collaborators what _they_ would be comfortable with. If they
run screaming from whatever you suggest, it's a good sign that they're not
ready.

Bob Melson

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Hugh Watkins]

"Robert Melson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3%[email protected]...

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:
I've chosen to host my own
webserver with phpGedView, but you may wish to find a webhosting service
that
does that for you.

So you are saying that you have your own server PC
setting at your home that is on 24/7 and contains
phpGedView?

But that if I don't want to maintain my own
hardware....I could rent space on a server somewhere
else and just install phpGedView there?

If yes.... I would want to do that.... rent the space
for now. Any advice on who to rent space from for this
purpose?

Yep. There are plusses and minuses to both approaches, of course. For
me,
the plusses of running my own web server far outweigh the minuses. As
they
say, however, your mileage may vary (YMMV).

In assessing which approach is right for YOU, take into consideration,
among
other things, your technical abilities - running a web server is no walk
in
the park because of security concerns; cost, what hoops you have to jump
through to upload your gedcom/genealogy files to the remote host, etc.
For
now, however, I'd suggest that you must walk before you can run, and that
involves selecting your genealogy software, learning to use it
competently,
getting your information entered, as well as a host of other things. When
you've mastered the basics, then you can worry about collaboration and
sharing
data in a public forum.

Renting space: there are a number of ways to go about this. Your
internet
service provider may offer the service as part of your subscription or may
charge a modest additional monthly fee; RootsWeb serves submitted
genealogy
information for free, I think; and there are other services out there
which
will host/serve your web pages for a fee.

I have unlimited freespace free of charge

I am the host for two projects
http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Ednkcen/sitemap.html
http://users.rootsweb.com/%7Ewlsmer/sitemap.html

and my personal web space
Homepage of Hugh Watkins http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hugh/
and I help my friend (with advertisemens)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com ... temap.html

all of that is paid for by the subscribers of ancestry.com
and will still ebe there after I am dead becoming the property of my heirs

paid sites get deleted
personal servers turned off

So save your work by sharing it

Hugh W


--


LAPHAM
one-name study
http://lapham2005.blogspot.com/

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lapham

[Gjest]

Yep. There are plusses and minuses to both approaches, of course. For me,
the plusses of running my own web server far outweigh the minuses. As they
say, however, your mileage may vary (YMMV).

At some point in time I would "like" to have my own web
server setting at home

But right now I don't have the hardware nor time nor
expertise to do such

So I'm pretty sure I will just "rent" one for awhile.

My main goal before starting down this endeavor is that
I have someone online that is truly "collaborative" and
my sister can help enter info into

You see.... my sister has the bulk of family info on
paper already. So need her help to type it in. So
wouldn't you say the web server ways is best for me?

[Gjest]

In assessing which approach is right for YOU, take into consideration, among
other things, your technical abilities - running a web server is no walk in

I'm pretty computer savvy

But no experience running server based software or
hardware's

[Gjest]

I have unlimited freespace free of charge

How is that possible?

[Gjest]

I couldn't say. I simply haven't had any experience with using the
online editing features of PhpGedView, because I don't collaborate
(directly) with others. I have just had a quick browse, and they do
seem to work as intended. The Next Generation also seem to do the
exact same things.

Between the two which one would YOU go for and why?

I will be renting server space. No desire to maintain
the server myself at this time tho I may have my own
server in future

[Gjest]

phpGedView is a full-blown genealogy application in that it allows for data
entry, does appropriate reports, archives your information, etc. BUT, it
requires a web-server in order to function, i.e., it's not a standalone
application like TNG or PAF or <insert name here>. I like it, but have to
tell you that it's not for the faint of heart or the novice.

I understand now thanks!

[Gjest]

Apart from that, I stand by my comments: get started first, then worry about
collaboration via phpGedView or TNG or whatever. I'd also suggest you ask
your potential collaborators what _they_ would be comfortable with. If they
run screaming from whatever you suggest, it's a good sign that they're not
ready.

Umm OK

But I'm leaning towards starting out with web app
anyway. Probably The Next Generation for now

I'm really sure I want online collaboration with my
sister

But you are right abt making sure the online app is
easy enough for my sister to use

[Ranier von Tits]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:

I guess what I'm asking is.... do al the other
genealogy apps use a proprietary database format for
there data?

GEDitCOM uses strict GEDCOM as the only database format. See
http://www.geditcom.com/

--
This posting contains nobody's opinions - just plain facts.

[Lars Erik Bryld]

Scripsit [email protected]:

Between the two which one would YOU go for and why?

TNG *seems* more aesthetically pleasing than PhpGedView, and neither
offers significantly more features than the other. Nevertheless, I'd
try out the online approach with the free PhpGedView, then possibly
fork out the $29 for TNG if feeling some undefined lack of style or
feature that TNG would boast to offer.

Still, in my experience, genealogy is not something you should expect
your family to take an active interest in. Almost everyone you'd ask
would express interest in principle, but would subsequently find
themselves lacking in time to invest in the project. Most genealogist
work alone (apart from helping each other out). Therefore the market
for standalone applications remain the biggest.

In that respect, my recommendations would be:
For beginners - Legacy Family Tree (free or cheap, either will do)
For experts - Genbox Family History (TMG power, only much smoother)

--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

phpGedView is a full-blown genealogy application in that it allows for data
entry, does appropriate reports, archives your information, etc. BUT, it
requires a web-server in order to function, i.e., it's not a standalone
application like TNG or PAF or <insert name here>. I like it, but have to
tell you that it's not for the faint of heart or the novice.

I understand now thanks!

A posting tip or two.

(1) when replying to any newsgroup posting, include an attribution line - most
newsreaders have the capability - so folks will know to whom you're responding.

(2) when replying to several points in a single article, intersperse your
comments with the points you're responding to, rather than posting multiple
replies to a single article. This keeps the thread of the "conversation"
intact and generally makes it easier to follow arguments/questions.

(3) if replying to a lengthy article, trim everything that is superfluous to
the point you're responding to (but see 2, above).

HTH,
Bob Melson (known elsewhere as "that S[well] O[l'] B[ob])


--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Gjest]

Still, in my experience, genealogy is not something you should expect
your family to take an active interest in. Almost everyone you'd ask
would express interest in principle, but would subsequently find
themselves lacking in time to invest in the project. Most genealogist
work alone (apart from helping each other out).

Understood

But having it online via the web will allow me to work
on it from ANY PC as well. Rather than having to use
the one at home only.

So that's very appealing to me

Maybe my logic is wrong tho. What you think?

I'm leaning towards getting The Next generation....
than paying $60 year to have it hosted on a web server.
Good idea? Bad idea?

I don't wanna keep beating a dead horse here. But I
wanna make sure I'm starting out right.

Or .... start out doing it offline with a free app
first. Then go for The Next Generation and just upload
the info?

[Rachel Alliston]

:
:
: I am running Access 2000 so Access 2003 may be different.
:
: You open Access 2000. It asks for a file. Cancel this and it will
: give a blank workspace. Go to File, Open. In the File Name box
: type *.* and click Open. Then navigate to the directory where your
: file is. Then simply click on any .fdb file.
:
: Doug

Thanks everyone for your help. I have now sorted this out and once the
Various Tables were explained to me it made more sense.

Rachel
Lake Macquarie Australia

[Hugh Watkins]

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.computing
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Why use software for geneaology?

I have unlimited freespace free of charge

How is that possible?

do read the post I made before asking silly questions
PAID FOR BY SUBSCRIBERS OF ANCESTRY.COM

http://www.rootsweb.com/~websites/

Request a Web Space Account
http://accounts.rootsweb.com/
see http://www.rootsweb.com/~websites/

http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lapham
note background
to match http://kilmington.blogspot.com/
the css still needs a lot of tweaking

a new hack tonight using css
by Pat Geary http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=pastyle

http://users.adelphia.net/~gearyhome/
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bi ... ckerfamily
http://www.family-genealogy-online.com/tucker/



http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=hughw36
matches Home Page: photographs and related documents

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hugh/

I had fun tonight

Hugh W


--
My Blogs

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/

Exploring Rootsweb http://rootsweb.blogspot.com/
Exploring Ancestry dot com and co uk http://ancestry.blogspot.com/

Getting to know AOL http://aoldotcom.blogspot.com/

Viking http://jorvik.blogspot.com/
1805 http://1805ad.blogspot.com/

Memories http://biog.blogspot.com/
Hugh's Review of Reviews http://hror.blogspot.com/
Hugh's Bloog http://moc-topsgolb.blogspot.com/

[Gjest]

do read the post I made before asking silly questions
PAID FOR BY SUBSCRIBERS OF ANCESTRY.COM

YOUR POST ARE HARD TO READ!

HARD TO UNDERTSND THE POINT!

Not composed of full sentences!!

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:54:09 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

The advantage of Legacy is the price.

Do you use the free version?

I used the free version for 3 years.

Or the Pro version?

then I liked it so much that I bought the deluxe version, but the free one
works pretty well for most purposes.



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[cecilia]

Robert Melson wrote:

A posting tip or two.
[...]
(2) when replying to several points in a single article, intersperse your
comments with the points you're responding to, rather than posting multiple
replies to a single article. This keeps the thread of the "conversation"
intact and generally makes it easier to follow arguments/questions.
[...]

Or separate the points in a number of replies. Some people find
interspersed comments difficult to spot.

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:49:58 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

There ya go. So, biggest thing, although you didn't really ask this -
make sure you source how you know everything you put in there. A time
_will_ come when you find conflicting information to your database, and
you will want to be able to decide which is right based on how you got
the info that's in there. Trust me on this one.

OK

But can you give me an example of how to "source"
something?

Sure - Grandpa died on (date). You know it, you were there. But, 2 or
3 generations from now, all there will be is a date with no
explaination. But, if the death was recorded in church records, find
those records, photocopy (or make a digital photo) the record, and in
the "source" section of your software for that fact, enter it as "Death
record, (name) Church, (volume) book, copied on (date) by (person)."
Doesn't matter so much the format, just a "why do I think that this is
the right info?".

With my grandpa, late in his life he wasn't as reliable about birthdays
and so on, so the things I have only from him verbally are listed as
"verbal interview with (name), age 95, by (me) on (date)". So, if I get
paperwork showing that Aunt Tillie's birthday was slightly different,
and it's a real document rather than a hazy memory, I know which one to
go with.

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:57:39 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Well, the webserver needs, I think, exactly the same things installed as
you would for a wiki, but it's different enough to be different. I'd
love to see a wiki plugin to it, or it as a plugin to a wiki...

Well you guys have CINVINCED me that I should do this
as a collaborative effort and do it by using software
that will allow that.

Excellent.

Bottom line.... I don't want this data to exist on my
single desktop PC alone. Id want it to exist on the web
where any family member could add or edit it. That is
so cool!!

Isn't open-source wonderful?

And that should help take some load off me for creating
the info huh?

Yup. Lets you concentrate on the data rather than formatting. Same
reason a wiki is cool, as you've discovered also.

As far as the wiki goes..... those things really
intrigue me as well. I can se all kinds of potential
uses for wikis. I was doing some reading on them and
came across this one. See link
http://twiki.org/

I've been partial to tikiwiki for a while now, but yeah, it's a painless
way to document and create web content. It doesn't have the templates
like phpgedview does, though. Getting the presentation layer and data
model taken care of right away, again, frees you to do the research
rather than the app development.

Click on some of the links in web page above. Many many
uses for this technology!! Why cant we use it for
genealogy as well?

Probably could. A wiki plugin for the notes in PHPGedView would be
really cool, for instance.

I'm wondering if I could just rent some space on a
server that already has Twiki on it for my personal use
only? That way I don't have to install or maintain.
Nor do I need a computer on 24/7 at home. Advice?

There are web providers out there which have a "LAMP" infrastructure
already in place. Linux-Apache-Mysql-PHP. I don't know who they are
off the top of my head because I do my own hosting, but I know they're
out there.

Anyway.... thanks so much to everyone for your help!!
I'm definitely a bit wiser abt how to approach this
now.

Great. Bob Melson is one guy who knows an awful lot about phpgedview,
it'd be worth googling his posts on the topic.

Dave Hinz

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
Dave Hinz <[email protected]> writes:
<snip>>

Great. Bob Melson is one guy who knows an awful lot about phpgedview,
it'd be worth googling his posts on the topic.

Dave Hinz

Blush.

Or you can contact me off-group and I'll be happy to share what I know - or
think I know - about phpGedView and serving your own webpages.

Bob

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:21:15 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <[email protected]> wrote:

On 30 Jul 2005 10:53:33 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> declaimed
the following in soc.genealogy.computing:


Everyone should back up their important data. If it's more work than
you'd want to re-type, it's time to back up again. CD-R disks are what,
a dime each?

One should back-up the entire computer, not just small chunks of
data... Unfortunately, my system has reached the point where incremental
backups require multiple DVD-Rs, not just CD-Rs <G

Well, it depends on the computer and what you've got on it. For me,
backing up my .mp3 collection would be silly; they're already on CDs, I
just put 'em on the Mac for convenience. The OS, there's no point in
backing up _for my needs_, because I'm comfortable doing a non-intrusive
re-install (which I've never known to be needed on a Mac in the first
place) if I needed to.

For Joe User with a Windows PC, if you tell 'em to back up the whole
system, they'll find it to be cumbersome and annoying and won't do it.
If you tell 'em to back up at least their important stuff, there's a
better chance that they'll do it at all. So, you trade ease of restore
for "having nothing to restore".

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02:07 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

if I were a
beginner I would probably choose the free version of Legacy.

Why Legacy?
Is it cause its just THAT good?

It really is, yes.

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

I like PAF for entering data, and Legacy for reporting, of the Windows
apps.

[Gjest]

"Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
"

Why Legacy?
Is it cause its just THAT good?

It really is, yes.

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

I like PAF for entering data, and Legacy for reporting, of the Windows
apps.

I'm a bit confused Dave

If Legacy is so good then why would you use PAF for
data entry?

And how exactly does that work? You type data into PAF
then export it as gedcom to create reports in Legacy?

If yes....sounds kind of cumbersome.

[Dave Hinz]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:57:18 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

"Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
"
I like PAF for entering data, and Legacy for reporting, of the Windows
apps.

I'm a bit confused Dave

Happens a lot when I don't write well

If Legacy is so good then why would you use PAF for
data entry?

Legacy's reports are really good, better than PAF's in my opinion. PAF,
however, has a more logical workflow for entering hundreds of names
(important for transcribing data from books into the system).

And how exactly does that work? You type data into PAF
then export it as gedcom to create reports in Legacy?

It's been a while - I use Reunion on the Mac now for everything, but I
seem to recall that Legacy can read the PAF files directly; no export
needed.

If yes....sounds kind of cumbersome.

It's not bad; the only time I did it was when I wanted a custom report
that PAF didn't have set up for me, but that Legacy did. The
intellishare features of Legacy would be great for collaboration also,
but phpgedview is easier to use in that regard, I think, and doesn't
require all parties to have Windows PCs with Legacy.

[Gjest]

"Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
"

As far as the wiki goes..... those things really
intrigue me as well. I can se all kinds of potential
uses for wikis. I was doing some reading on them and
came across this one. See link
http://twiki.org/

I've been partial to tikiwiki for a while now, but yeah, it's a painless
way to document and create web content. It doesn't have the templates
like phpgedview does, though. Getting the presentation layer and data
model taken care of right away, again, frees you to do the research
rather than the app development.

I see that now Dave.... i.e no templates in a Tiki that
phpgedview has.

So I will probably use The Next Generation for my
genealogy work.

Id go with phpgedview but don't want to maintain a
server at home right now. And TNG has a pretty good
deal going with a hosting service.

Still tho I might have a server at home someday.

What in your opinion is the diffs between phpGedView
and something like The Next Generation?

Do I assume correct that TNG generates web pages on the
fly from its SQL database whereas phpGevView just
creates static web pages all the time?

[Gjest]

"Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
"

A wiki plugin for the notes in PHPGedView would be
really cool, for instance.

yep that would be cool!

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

I don't know who they are
off the top of my head because I do my own hosting,

So how hard is it to do your own hosting?

What hardware you have? And how much time does it eat
up of your life? <G>

[Dave Hinz]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:07:41 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

I don't know who they are
off the top of my head because I do my own hosting,

So how hard is it to do your own hosting?

I'm the wrong person to ask; I've been making money in the IT world for,
er, 25+ years, so to me it's about as natural as breathing.

What hardware you have? And how much time does it eat
up of your life? <G

Little to none. stock-simple Ubuntu linux build, maybe an hour or three
worht of build/config time total. From that point on, _it just works_.

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:
<snip>

Id go with phpgedview but don't want to maintain a
server at home right now. And TNG has a pretty good
deal going with a hosting service.

I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe that the phpGedView folks also
have arrangements with hosting services. I wouldn't go to the bank with this
information, though.

Still tho I might have a server at home someday.

What in your opinion is the diffs between phpGedView
and something like The Next Generation?

Do I assume correct that TNG generates web pages on the
fly from its SQL database whereas phpGevView just
creates static web pages all the time?

There is really very little difference between the two products, from what
I've seen. Both generate webpages "on the fly" from the underlying gedcom,
both use the same language (php). The major difference is that one, phpGedView,
is non-commercial, while TNG is, tho' its cost is minimal by any measure. I
don't know about TNG, but pGV allows you to present multiple gedcoms (one at
a time, at the moment) and control access for each. I have 3 that can be
accessed from my setup and have different permissions set up for different
people for each. I'd be surprised if TNG didn't have something similar, but
can't really say.

One of the things I find frustrating about web-based applications, especially
those that use RDBMSs for data storage, is how slow they usually are, even on
a moderately fast machine. pGV has a nice feature where you can also access
your data via a java application called GDBI, which pretty much emulates the
Brothers Keeper interface; because you're avoiding the rendering engine of your
browser, access is quite a bit faster.

All told, the choice between pGV and TNG is really a matter of individual
preference. _I_ like pGV, not least because it's free. Because, like Dave,
I've worked in IT for the past mumble years, I am not particularly concerned
at the time and effort required to set it up and maintain it, so have chosen
to serve my own pages. pGV itself isn't hard to set up, but does require that
you have the php interpreter installed on your system (as does TNG), as well
as a webserver of some sort. Setting up the webserver is a bit more labor
intensive, at first, and requires some security tuning to prevent it being
exploited by spamers or other scum.

HTH,
Bob Melson



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Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
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"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
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