Question on ancestral heritage terminology

[Don.]

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard that
phrase.

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[Budgie]

<Don.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and said:
"you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that
phrase.

Yes, I quite often hear the term "ignorant American" when drinking Scotch
with my Scottish friends.

--
Budgie
NB Reply to newsgroup. Email address will get you nowhere..

[Doug McDonald]

Don. wrote:

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that
phrase.

The correct phrase is, by the terms of Political Correctness,
"Scotch-Irish", not "Scottish-Irish". This is because
a group of people get to call themselves what they want to,
unless they are white, and what these people called and
call themselves is "Scotch-Irish".


OOPS ... I do believe that they are white. In that case,
they are NOT allowed to call themselves what they want to,
and must call themselves what the Politically Correct
want them to be called, which is "Scottish-Irish".

O what a mess!!

Doug McDonald

[Hugh Watkins]

<Don.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and said:
"you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that
phrase.

have a look at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

site:www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk scotch

1 from http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Official government source for Scottish genealogy

... "When telling the story of scotch whisky you cannot help but talk
about ...
the country as a tourist destination as well as the home of Scotch
whisky. ...

site:www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk scottish


scottish about 224 from http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

about 798,000 from gov.uk for scottish.
about 9,510 from gov.uk for scotch

Scotch beef has a quality and characteristics arising from ...
The Scotch Whisky Act 1988
Scotch kilns,


Tha Boord o Ulstèr-Scotch fordèrs tha Ulstèr-Scotch leid an fowkgates. MFAA
bes fordèrin tha yaisin o Airisch an Ulstèr-Scotch, tha wye the'll fen thaim
....
Scotch Street, Armagh's main shopping throughfare. in Ireland


looks like you *are* ignorant of normal usage

Hugh W

about 104,000 for "Scottish Irish". and ut 372,000 for "Scotch Irish

eg
Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia

[Dave Hinz]

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:53:31 GMT, Budgie <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes, I quite often hear the term "ignorant American" when drinking Scotch
with my Scottish friends.

You're not...mixing a good single malt with something, are you?
Because some things are truly unforgivable.

[john]

Don. wrote:

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that
phrase.

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From http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Scottish

Scot·tish

adj. Of or relating to Scotland or its people, language, or culture.

n.1. Scots English.
2. (used with a pl. verb) The people of Scotland.


[Middle English scottisc. See Scots.]

Usage Note: Scottish is the full, original form of the adjective.
Scots is an old Scottish variant. Scotch is an English contraction of
Scottish that came into use in Scotland as well for a time (as in
Burns's “O thou, my Muse! guid auld Scotch drink!”) but subsequently
fell into disfavor there. In the interest of civility, forms involving
Scotch are best avoided in reference to people; designations formed with
Scots are most common (Scot, Scotsman, or Scotswoman), but those
involving the full form Scottish are sometimes found in more formal
contexts. Scotch-Irish is the most commonly used term for the
descendants of Scots who migrated to North America, but lately
Scots-Irish has begun to gain currency among those who know that Scotch
is considered offensive in Scotland. There is, however, no sure rule for
referring to things, since the history of variation in the use of these
words has left many expressions in which the choice is fixed, such as
Scotch broth, Scotch whisky, Scottish rite, and Scots Guards.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

scottish

adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Scotland or its people or
culture or its English dialect or Gaelic language; "Scots gaelic"; "the
Scots community in New York"; "`Scottish' tends to be the more formal
term as in `The Scottish Symphony' or `Scottish authors' or `Scottish
mountains'"; "`Scotch' is in disfavor with Scottish people and is used
primarily outside Scotland except in such frozen phrases as `Scotch
broth' or `Scotch whiskey' or `Scotch plaid'" [syn: Scots, Scottish,
Scotch] n : the dialect of English used in Scotland [syn: Scottish,
Scots, Scots English]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

(and please no comments regarding the reference to "Scotch whiskey")

[Robert Heiling]

http://www.zekes.com/~dspidell/famresearch/ulster.html

[cecilia]

Doug McDonald wrote:

I happened to mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, [...] "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

The correct phrase is, by the terms of Political Correctness,
"Scotch-Irish", not "Scottish-Irish". [...]

It is unclear to me whether the OP's ancestry is part Scottish and part
Irish, or whether the point is that the OP descends from those that went
from Scotland to Ulster as part of the "Plantation".

[Don.]

john wrote:

Don. wrote:

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never
heard that
phrase.

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From http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Scottish

Scot·tish

adj. Of or relating to Scotland or its people, language, or culture.

n.1. Scots English.
2. (used with a pl. verb) The people of Scotland.


[Middle English scottisc. See Scots.]

Usage Note: Scottish is the full, original form of the adjective.
Scots is an old Scottish variant. Scotch is an English contraction of
Scottish that came into use in Scotland as well for a time (as in
Burns's “O thou, my Muse! guid auld Scotch drink!”) but subsequently
fell into disfavor there. In the interest of civility, forms involving
Scotch are best avoided in reference to people; designations formed with
Scots are most common (Scot, Scotsman, or Scotswoman), but those
involving the full form Scottish are sometimes found in more formal
contexts. Scotch-Irish is the most commonly used term for the
descendants of Scots who migrated to North America, but lately
Scots-Irish has begun to gain currency among those who know that Scotch
is considered offensive in Scotland. There is, however, no sure rule for
referring to things, since the history of variation in the use of these
words has left many expressions in which the choice is fixed, such as
Scotch broth, Scotch whisky, Scottish rite, and Scots Guards.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

scottish

adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Scotland or its people or
culture or its English dialect or Gaelic language; "Scots gaelic"; "the
Scots community in New York"; "`Scottish' tends to be the more formal
term as in `The Scottish Symphony' or `Scottish authors' or `Scottish
mountains'"; "`Scotch' is in disfavor with Scottish people and is used
primarily outside Scotland except in such frozen phrases as `Scotch
broth' or `Scotch whiskey' or `Scotch plaid'" [syn: Scots, Scottish,
Scotch] n : the dialect of English used in Scotland [syn: Scottish,
Scots, Scots English]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

(and please no comments regarding the reference to "Scotch whiskey")

Thanks, all, I feel like an expert--if only I could remember everything that's
been contributed.

In the future I'll make it easy and just say, "My ancestors are Texans!"
(And that's true if I only look back 1 generation.)

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[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:07:50 -0600, Doug McDonald
<mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:

Don. wrote:
I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that
phrase.

The correct phrase is, by the terms of Political Correctness,
"Scotch-Irish", not "Scottish-Irish". This is because
a group of people get to call themselves what they want to,
unless they are white, and what these people called and
call themselves is "Scotch-Irish".

Scots are those who emigrated from Ireland to Scotland.

Scotch-Irish went the other way.

Home rule for the Picts now!


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Lesley Robertson]

"cecilia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Doug McDonald wrote:
I happened to mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, [...] "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

The correct phrase is, by the terms of Political Correctness,
"Scotch-Irish", not "Scottish-Irish". [...]

It is unclear to me whether the OP's ancestry is part Scottish and part
Irish, or whether the point is that the OP descends from those that went
from Scotland to Ulster as part of the "Plantation".

Variations on this question, apparently from different posters, have
appeared on a couple of other groups I read this week. Strange.....
Lesley Robertson

[Don.]

Steve Hayes wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:07:50 -0600, Doug McDonald
mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:


Don. wrote:

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness. He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never heard
that phrase.

The correct phrase is, by the terms of Political Correctness,
"Scotch-Irish", not "Scottish-Irish". This is because
a group of people get to call themselves what they want to,
unless they are white, and what these people called and
call themselves is "Scotch-Irish".


Scots are those who emigrated from Ireland to Scotland.

Scotch-Irish went the other way.

And now we've come full circle. I agree Steve, but that's intially what
caused the glare from the Wales (Welch?) chap, as well as some sarcastic
replies in another NG.

This seems like simply another case of potatoe/potato...

We used to live in *northern New Mexico* and now we live in *north Idaho*.
Interesting nomenclature differences...

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Home rule for the Picts now!

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[Gary Smith]

As Scotch is a whisky and Scottish is an adjective, and the people of
Scotland are referred to properly as Scots, the term 'Scots-Irish' seems
appropriate.
--- Gary in Berkeley



Don.> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

john wrote:
Don. wrote:

I don't know where else this question might belong, but ...

Yesterday I met a 35-something computer "expert" from Wales who's been
in
Idaho for 7 years. During a light hearted conversation I happened to
mention I
was of "Scotch/Irish" descent, thinking he might feel some closeness.
He
silently looked at me and glared. `*8-o

I mentioned it on the Alt.windows98 NG and some bloke came back and
said: "you
are an ignorant American, the term is *Scottish/Irish*!"

Question: is that correct? In my 13 years of genealogy I've never
heard that
phrase.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----


From http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Scottish

Scot·tish

adj. Of or relating to Scotland or its people, language, or culture.

n.1. Scots English.
2. (used with a pl. verb) The people of Scotland.


[Middle English scottisc. See Scots.]

Usage Note: Scottish is the full, original form of the adjective.
Scots is an old Scottish variant. Scotch is an English contraction of
Scottish that came into use in Scotland as well for a time (as in
Burns's “O thou, my Muse! guid auld Scotch drink!”) but subsequently
fell into disfavor there. In the interest of civility, forms involving
Scotch are best avoided in reference to people; designations formed with
Scots are most common (Scot, Scotsman, or Scotswoman), but those
involving the full form Scottish are sometimes found in more formal
contexts. Scotch-Irish is the most commonly used term for the
descendants of Scots who migrated to North America, but lately
Scots-Irish has begun to gain currency among those who know that Scotch
is considered offensive in Scotland. There is, however, no sure rule for
referring to things, since the history of variation in the use of these
words has left many expressions in which the choice is fixed, such as
Scotch broth, Scotch whisky, Scottish rite, and Scots Guards.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

scottish

adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Scotland or its people or
culture or its English dialect or Gaelic language; "Scots gaelic"; "the
Scots community in New York"; "`Scottish' tends to be the more formal
term as in `The Scottish Symphony' or `Scottish authors' or `Scottish
mountains'"; "`Scotch' is in disfavor with Scottish people and is used
primarily outside Scotland except in such frozen phrases as `Scotch
broth' or `Scotch whiskey' or `Scotch plaid'" [syn: Scots, Scottish,
Scotch] n : the dialect of English used in Scotland [syn: Scottish,
Scots, Scots English]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

(and please no comments regarding the reference to "Scotch whiskey")

Thanks, all, I feel like an expert--if only I could remember everything
that's
been contributed.

In the future I'll make it easy and just say, "My ancestors are Texans!"

(And that's true if I only look back 1 generation.)

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Newsgroups
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[Doug McDonald]

Gary Smith wrote:

As Scotch is a whisky and Scottish is an adjective, and the people of
Scotland are referred to properly as Scots, the term 'Scots-Irish' seems
appropriate.

But it is wrong. There were a large group of people from Scotland who
moved to IReland and then later to eastern America, and called
thenselves the "Scotch-Irish". What you "reason" is immaterial.
What is material is what they actually were, and that is "Scotch-Irish".

Doug McDonald