Record translation for Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdatter

[gj14879]

Hello,

I have listed records that concern Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdatter and was hoping that someone could translate them for me. They are:

1. 1865 Christianssund Census for Haagen Torgersen.
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... =4720#ovre

Where did the name “OIEN” come from? Is this a surname?
Did the Torgersens live on the Ole Stokkestad farm? Did they rent from him?
It says that Haagen was born in “Tonset”. What town is that?
What is Undermaaler mean in English?
What does Arbeidsmand mean in English?

2. Marriage record of Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdatter;
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 640664.jpg

Any reference to Haagen’s occupation?
Parents of Haagen? Father: Torger ??? Mother: ?????
Father of Kari? Could it be Erik Knudsen? Is there a mother listed?
There are words after Haagen and Kari’s name. I can not make it out. Is it a location/farm from where they are from?
Any other information as to who the witnesses were?


3.. If Erik Knudsen is Kari’s father, I found the following Birth record in Vaga:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-83
I think it says her birth is July 21 1836. Is this the correct birth record for Kari Eriksdatter that is married to Haagen?
If so, is her mother’s name listed? Is there an occupation listed for Erik and/or his father?
Any other information listed that would be interesting to know?


Final questions:
Any record of the birthdates, residences and occupations of Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdatter’s parents?

Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Mary

[dn23027]

1:
Øien is a farm-name, could also be used as a surname. Tønset, or Tynset today, is a district or parish in Hedmark county. In 1865 census there is a farm called Øian in Tynset,- he might be born there,- or has lived there.

The Torgersens probably rented room in Ole Stokkestads house ( this is in Kristiansund which was like a little town, "kjøpstad", at that time, and was not a farm, "gard/gård" can also mean estate in the towns). "Undermaaler" was a public employee who controlled that correct weight and measure were used in trade. "Arbeidsmand" means workman.

2.
Batchelor Haagen Torgersen Spilplads and maiden Kari Eriksdatter Hoelshaug.
He is 28 1/2 years old, born in Tønset (Tynset) parish, and his father is Torger Haagensen Kirkesæter.
She is born in Vaage (Vågå), 25 1/4 years old, and her father is Erik Knudsen.
They probably lived on those locations that are written after their names.
The witnesses are Hans Thoresen Gulbrandsstuen, and John Hansen Storstenen.

3. The baptism you have found, is the correct one, but on this page (you put the link of the next page) : http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-82 Parents Eric Knudsen Holshoug and wife Barbra Hansdatter. The witnesses are John and Johannes Wisdahl, Michal Stordal, Marit Wiste, Marit Sande.

-------
I found the wedding date for Kari`s parents on Familysearch, but I didn`t find it in the churcrecords, so I must have overlooked it somewhere:

Groom's Name: Eric Knudsen
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Barbra Hansdr
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 27 Nov 1834
Marriage Place: Vaagaa,Opland,Norway
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42100-2
System Origin: Norway-ODM
Source Film Number: 125632
------------------------

Regards from
Linda

[gj14879]

Thank you so much for helping me with the information. I now have another question I hope you can help me with.

This is in regards to my great grandfather, Martin Haagensen, who is the son of Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdatter. He was born in Vaage on January 16 1865.
What I know is that he had a daughter (Helma Klaudine Oien, born 12-28-1884 in Kristianssund.) He never married her mother, Margrethe Olsdatter Vange, (who was deaf and mute). The baptismal record it says that he is unmarried.

Since he fathered a child in Kristianssund, I thought maybe he moved there from Vaage.
I found this 1900 Christiansund census for Martin Haagensen. Could this be him?
(It states that his birth place is Waage, and I thought this might be an older spelling of Vaage.)

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... =2841#ovre

1) If this is the Martin Haagensen I am looking for, could you translate/explain the following?
Occupation?
Could the wife (Marie)’s maiden name be Johanssen?
Even though Astrid Johanassen is listed as datter, do you think she is Martin’s step daughter?

Looking further, I found the following 1910 Census. Martin is not listed. Marie states she is a widow.
http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036748001956/

2) If this is Martin’s widow and children, can you help me with the following:
Maria’s occupation? (Dagarbeiderske paa Fiskebyrgge)
Helfdan’s occupation?
What does Vanninghus mean? It is listed under type of house.
Is Braemsnes the same as Ore. (Marie listed Ore as her birthplace on 1900 census.

3) If I have not found the correct information on Martin Haagesen, can someone help me with that? I am most interested in what his occupations were and when and where he died. Also, if he had other wives.

Thanks again in advance.
Mary

[gj04741]

Hei,
Census of Kristiansund 1885
Martin Haagensen Øien is living there with his parents Haagen Torgersen Øien and Karen Eriksdatter Øien
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f81503&gardpostnr=504&personpostnr=5914&merk=5914#ovre

So, I guess that the Martin Haagensen you have found in the 1900 census is the same person.

Norwegian – America dictionary aimed at us doing genealogy
http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm

1900 Census
Martins occupation I’ve never heard that excact word before, could be a misspelling here but I guess he could transport limonade (brus=limonade, kjørsel=driving/transport) or the later part could be gjødsel=manure…
Marie is a housewife
Astrid, which I guess is Marie’s daugter is a seamstress

1910:
Marie is a daylaborer at the fish warf
Anne is a seamstress
Halfdan is an errand boy at a place that’s sells earthenware
Vaaningshus: the house on a farm where people live, a farm house

Where an when Martin died: He most likely died in Kristiansund betwen 1900 and 1910.
I have to make some further investigation on Bræmsnes and Øre as it’s not places I’m familiar with.

[gj04741]

Hi,
Øre prestegjeld is a parish in Gjemnes, Møre and Romsdal.

Bræmsnes, msot likely what is today spelles Bremsnes, a village and former municipality in Møre og Romsdal county
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsnes

This could be their sons Halfdan’s baptism record, the church book is damaged so not 100 % sure, but date of birth according to 1910 census.
Møre og Romsdal fylke, Kristiansund i Kristiansund, Ministerialbok nr. 572A14 (1880-1897), Fødte og døpte 1896, side 321. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6420&idx_id=6420&uid=ny&idx_side=-151

If that’s correct then this is where he’s burried:
Halfdan M. Haagensen
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3488262

Rønnaug Ingvarda’s baptism
Møre og Romsdal fylke, Kristiansund i Kristiansund, Ministerialbok nr. 572A18 (1898-1913), Fødte og døpte 1900, side 39. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3828&idx_id=3828&uid=ny&idx_side=-44

...found the marriage record of Eric Knudsen and Barbara Hansdatter
Oppland fylke, Vågå i Vågå, Ministerialbok nr. 4 /1 (1827-1842), Ekteviede 1834, side 192. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9250&idx_id=9250&uid=ny&idx_side=-158

[gj14879]

Hello!

I believe that you did indeed find the correct baptismal record for Halfdan!
Oh, I also thank you getting the records for Ronnaug. Now I know that Helma Klaudine Oien (Martin’s first daughter out of wedlock) has 3 more half siblings!

It got me wondering about Helma’s mother, Margrethe Olsdatter or Larsdatter who was born in Grytten, on July 1849. In past posts I was given a Birth record for Margrethe Larsdatter, but wondering if you can translate it for me?

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 010323.jpg


1. Does it look to you that her birth father is Lari Olsen? I know that her mother’s name is Guri Olsdatter Vange but can not read it on the record. Is there also any information regarding the parents of Guri? Does it say whether or not Guri was married?

2. I know from census records that Margrethe became deaf and dumb at the age of 5 years old. That she had two daughters, Helma and Julia from two different fathers. (I have the birth/baptism records for them.) No records have been found that she married either father. But what confuses me is that she states on 1865 and 1885 Census for Kristiansund that she is a widow. Would you be able to confirm if she ever married? (It probably was befor her first daughter Julia, was born.
I did find the 1885 census and if I translated it correctly it appears that she is living in a house with her two daughters? Since there are so many people, is this a “poor house”, where the state takes care of them?

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcen ... =2721#ovre

Again, many many thanks. I really so appreciate it! With your help, I am now getting a clearer picture of my ancestors.
Mary

[gj04741]

Hi,
Just found this:
Julie Margrete is living with her grandparents in Trondheim in 1900
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f01601&gardpostnr=6410&personpostnr=30214#nedre

Margrethe and her daughters in Kristiansund 1885:
I guess the house is a larger house with several apartments, not specific a house for poor people but it might be cheap rent that have attracted people who needed support from the welfare agency.

Margrete is noted as being a widow, supported by the welfare agency and she also worked as a seamstress.
I don’t know what information you have gathered on Julie Margrete’s father… could they have married since she uses his last name, or did he die before a wedding could take place. I was little bit baffled by the fact that Julie Margrete lived with her paternal grandparents in 1900 as it was not that common for the child to have contact with her fathers family when born out of wedlock.
However, I have previously come across other women that have falsely stated to be widowed in the censuses, not easy to be a single mom with children born out of wedlock.

I’m not 100 % sure what to make out of Margrete’s baptism, I suggest you make a separate request on the deciffer-part of the forum – you’ll find a lot of skillfull people there in that department http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewforum.php?f=2352

I am, however, able to make out that her parents where not married.

[gj14879]

Wow! Thanks so much for the information on Margrethe! The fact that she was supported by the welfare system, tells me that she probably did not get support from her daughter’s fathers.
Margrethe is probably one of my most “interesting” ancestors. And I want so much to know her story.
I know that she was born July 19 1849, in More og Romsdal, Grytten, Norway. Her mother’s name was Guri Olsdatter Vange (b. abt 1814, Grytten, Norway.) The last known record I can find of Margrete is the 1885 Kristiansund census. I have tried looking at many 1900 census using different last names, but to no avail. I am assuming she died sometime between 1885 and1895. The reason: Helma,(my Grandmother) said her birthplace was Namsos, so I am presuming that her Mother, Margrethe, died when Helma was a young child and maybe Namsos is all Helma can remember. I did find Helma, age 16, in the 1900 Namsos census living with Johanne Petterson and his family. I have not been able to establish if Johanne Petterssen is family. I do know that Helma’s father, Martin Haagensen Oien is living in Kristianssund with his wife and children.

As for Julie Juliusdtr Olsen: I know that her father is sailor Julius Martin Olsen and he died Dec. 6, 1881 two years, 6 months after Julie was born.( I have the death record). I also know that Juius’s brother, Peder, left for Minnesota, America and then later paid for Julie to come to Minnesota.

So my unknowns are:
1. Did Margrethe ever marry Julius Martin Olsen? (My guess is not.)
2. When and where did Margrethe die? Were her daughters so young that they had to be taken care of family members? Is Johanne Pettersen related to Helma’s father, Martin Haagensne?
3. What was Guri’s birthdate and who are here parents?
4. If Guri did not marry Margrethe’s father, was she also supported by the welfare system?

Thanks so much for the link.
I will definitely send out another request to try and decipher Margrethe’s birth record. I believe this will give me some more clues as to who is Margrethe’s father and maybe some other relatives of her mother, Guri.

It might be that Margrethe became sick, could not take care of her daughters, sent them away and then went back to live with her mother or unknown father.


Thank You so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Mary

[gj04741]

Hi,
Your Helma is working as a servant in 1900 in Namsos
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... =1376#ovre
The column for ‘Fam.stilling’ (family position) tj=tjenseste(pike)=servant.
So, I guess there is no relation between Helma and the family she is working for. Johan is born in Alstahaug, Nordland and Kalolene in Fosnes, Nord-Trøndelag.

As I have mention before they may have had the intention of getting married. Some sailors were not home that much. Another option is that they might be distantly related or their families were close friends. As I’ve mentioned earlier it was not commen for a child born out of wedlock to have relation with her fathers family. Thus it might have been some close relation between the families, especially if her uncle paid her ticket to the US.

I made quick search om familysearch.org and found two possible candidates for Guri Olsdatter
Guri, baptized 22nd of August 1813, parents: Ole Erichsen Boe (Bø) and Marit Iversdatter

Guraa, born 1st of January 1814, baptized 9th of January 1814, parents: Ole Olsen Brevig and Marit Larsdatter.

You need to look at the witnesses of Margretes baptism to se if any of her godparent are related to Guri. Goodparents are usuallly close family and/or friends.
Goodparents: farmer Hans Johannesen, Venge, farmer Ole Larsen, Hole, unmarried girl Mette Johannesdatter, Venge, …? Torstensen, Venge

Venge may also have been written Winge the lastname Guris uses in 1865
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f61503&gardpostnr=240&personpostnr=2494&merk=2494#ovre

[gj04741]

Hi,
Just forgot…

Regarding Guri I will suggest thaat you start a new request on the Møre og Rømsdal, Rauma part of the forum, http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewforum.php?f=1539
Since she’s from what today is known as Rauma I guess you are more likely to get it touch with people with great knowledge of the local area tehre. Just remember to add all the information you have gathered so far.

[gj04741]

Hi,
I’m not particularly good ad deciphering but after seeing the wedding record then its clare that Guri’s maiden name is Knudsdatter.
So, my two previous posible candidates are definetly not the Guri you are looking for.

[gj14879]

Thanks so much for all of your help! I have been spending all morning putting it together. I will surely take your advice and post to a different forum for Guri Larsdatter.
Thanks again,
Mary