I note that Elizabeth Carr (d.1604), wife of (1) William Fairfax and (2)
Christopher Kelke is stated by Douglas Richardson to be daughter of
Robert Carr of Sleaford, Lincolnshire [_PA_, 414]. I wonder if she is
therefore decended from the Sir Robert Carr of Sleaford who married
Margaret Clifford, daughter of Thomas, 8th Lord Clifford (d.1455). If
so, Christopher and Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke's daughter, Anne
(Kelke) Leming - ancestress to several of us descending from William
Asfordby - would appear to have two lines of descent from John, 7th Lord
Clifford (d. 1422) and his wife Elizabeth Percy (d.1436).
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
Sonoma County Archivist
Sonoma County History and Genealogy Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke (d bef 4 Sep 1604)
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke (d bef 4 Sep 1604)
On Feb 3, 9:41 am, "Tony Hoskins" <[email protected]> wrote:
Good question - I came across the Carrs while looking at the Cawdron
family of Heckington last year - there is a family-tree for them in
Maddison's 'Lincolnshire Pedigrees' which should answer this.
Cheers, Michael
I note that Elizabeth Carr (d.1604), wife of (1) William Fairfax and (2)
Christopher Kelke is stated by Douglas Richardson to be daughter of
Robert Carr of Sleaford, Lincolnshire [_PA_, 414]. I wonder if she is
therefore decended from the Sir Robert Carr of Sleaford who married
Margaret Clifford, daughter of Thomas, 8th Lord Clifford (d.1455). If
so, Christopher and Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke's daughter, Anne
(Kelke) Leming - ancestress to several of us descending from William
Asfordby - would appear to have two lines of descent from John, 7th Lord
Clifford (d. 1422) and his wife Elizabeth Percy (d.1436).
Good question - I came across the Carrs while looking at the Cawdron
family of Heckington last year - there is a family-tree for them in
Maddison's 'Lincolnshire Pedigrees' which should answer this.
Cheers, Michael
-
Gjest
Re: Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke (d bef 4 Sep 1604)
On Feb 3, 7:34 pm, [email protected] wrote:
It was mentioned in a post which for some reason is in another thread
that Maddison refers to an earlier Carr pedigree in "The Genealogist",
3:193-206 (1879). But Maddison does not include any earlier
generations from that article in his pedigree - and apparently for
good reason. The author of that article, identified as "C***", says
that the earliest confirmed ancestor of the Carrs of Sleaford is
George Carr, merchant of the Staple, who mar. Anne Flower. There
appears to be some evidence, primarily from heraldic pedigrees, that
George's father was Richard Carr who mar. a daughter of Sir John
Elmeden. Richard in turn MAY have been a son of a "John Carr of the
North", but it's not clear who this John was.
It appears that the Carrs of Sleaford (and those of Thornton) have
been the subject of some creative genealogical grafting over the
centuries. The pedigree cited in the other thread, from "
TheTopography & History of New & Old Sleaford", appears to be
incorrect in saying that it was a John, son of Richard, who mar. an
Elmeden daughter and was the father of George Carr of Sleaford
(although this version is apparently supported by one Harleian MS (of
several relating to the family)).
The assumption that Sir Robert Carr who mar. Margaret Clifford was in
fact "of Sleaford" appears to be based on a paper of 1863 by Maurice
P. Moore. This item is at the FHL and, through their catalog, is
available on-line via the BYU library. Apparently the Carr who married
a Clifford daughter has been mistakenly called Sir John in the past,
and this has led some to attempt to link the Carrs of Sleaford and of
Thornton to the Cliffords (and also to the Ogles, but that's another
story). The author of the article in "The Genealogist" demonstrates
that this is unlikely, primarily for chronological reasons, and not
supported by contemporary documents, and specifically sys that Moore's
pedigree of the Carrs is invalid..
Unless there's some other evidence that Sir Robert Carr who mar.
Margaret Clifford was "of Sleaford", it seems that a connection
between him and the later Carrs of Sleaford cannot be made.
On Feb 3, 9:41 am, "Tony Hoskins" <[email protected]> wrote:
I note that Elizabeth Carr (d.1604), wife of (1) William Fairfax and (2)
Christopher Kelke is stated by Douglas Richardson to be daughter of
Robert Carr of Sleaford, Lincolnshire [_PA_, 414]. I wonder if she is
therefore decended from the Sir Robert Carr of Sleaford who married
Margaret Clifford, daughter of Thomas, 8th Lord Clifford (d.1455). If
so, Christopher and Elizabeth (Carr) (Fairfax) Kelke's daughter, Anne
(Kelke) Leming - ancestress to several of us descending from William
Asfordby - would appear to have two lines of descent from John, 7th Lord
Clifford (d. 1422) and his wife Elizabeth Percy (d.1436).
Good question - I came across the Carrs while looking at the Cawdron
family of Heckington last year - there is a family-tree for them in
Maddison's 'Lincolnshire Pedigrees' which should answer this.
Cheers, Michael
It was mentioned in a post which for some reason is in another thread
that Maddison refers to an earlier Carr pedigree in "The Genealogist",
3:193-206 (1879). But Maddison does not include any earlier
generations from that article in his pedigree - and apparently for
good reason. The author of that article, identified as "C***", says
that the earliest confirmed ancestor of the Carrs of Sleaford is
George Carr, merchant of the Staple, who mar. Anne Flower. There
appears to be some evidence, primarily from heraldic pedigrees, that
George's father was Richard Carr who mar. a daughter of Sir John
Elmeden. Richard in turn MAY have been a son of a "John Carr of the
North", but it's not clear who this John was.
It appears that the Carrs of Sleaford (and those of Thornton) have
been the subject of some creative genealogical grafting over the
centuries. The pedigree cited in the other thread, from "
TheTopography & History of New & Old Sleaford", appears to be
incorrect in saying that it was a John, son of Richard, who mar. an
Elmeden daughter and was the father of George Carr of Sleaford
(although this version is apparently supported by one Harleian MS (of
several relating to the family)).
The assumption that Sir Robert Carr who mar. Margaret Clifford was in
fact "of Sleaford" appears to be based on a paper of 1863 by Maurice
P. Moore. This item is at the FHL and, through their catalog, is
available on-line via the BYU library. Apparently the Carr who married
a Clifford daughter has been mistakenly called Sir John in the past,
and this has led some to attempt to link the Carrs of Sleaford and of
Thornton to the Cliffords (and also to the Ogles, but that's another
story). The author of the article in "The Genealogist" demonstrates
that this is unlikely, primarily for chronological reasons, and not
supported by contemporary documents, and specifically sys that Moore's
pedigree of the Carrs is invalid..
Unless there's some other evidence that Sir Robert Carr who mar.
Margaret Clifford was "of Sleaford", it seems that a connection
between him and the later Carrs of Sleaford cannot be made.