William de Vesci and the Muschamps of Wooler, Northumberland

[John P. Ravilious]

Tuesday, 15 January, 2008


Hello All,

The Muschamps family of Wooler, Northumberland is of
relatively minor note, but is known for having been
ancestral to the Grahams of Dalkeith and Abercorn and
thereby of a good many well-known names (Douglas, Earl
of Morton for one).

Thomas de Muschamp (d. 1190) had a wife Matilda,
known from her gift of 3 carucates in Halsington
[Hassington in Eccles parish, Berwickshire] as the
maritagium of her daughter, the wife of William fitz
John 'de Honum' in which she is identified as the
mother of Sir Robert de Muschamps of Wooler [1].
While no other reference to her had been noticed in
primary sources, I noted the following from an 1825
article in The Gentleman's Library:

' Thomas Muschamps married Maud, or Matilda, daughter
of William de Vescy, and in 19 Henry II. "took part
with young Henry against the King his father." He
left issue Robert, to whom Henry I gave the barony
of Wollover [Northumberland].....He [Robert] died
in 34 Henry III., "circa festum Sanctae
Margaritae." ' [2]

There was unfortunately no source cited in this
article, which is not totally reliable: the mention of
the grant of Wooler (Wollover) by Henry I in the quote
above is in error, as this actually the great-grandfather
of the subject Sir Robert de Muschamps who received the
grant in question [3].

Interestingly, the statement concerning the marriage
of Thomas de Muschamps and Matilda de Vesci is not to be
dismissed: I note that Keith Stringer recently stated,
concerning the marriages of the de Vescy family,

' ..through successive marriages close links were
forged with, among others, the Lacys and Stutevilles
in Yorkshire and the Bertrams, Bolbecs and Muschamps
in Northumberland ' [4].

Again, we have even in 1999 no citation to a source on
which to rely or resort to. However, given Stringer's
careful scholarship it seems likely that Matilda was a
daughter of William de Vesci (d. 1183), presumably by his
wife Burga de Stuteville. Perhaps Hassington (elsewhere
Halsyngton or Halsinton) was a de Vesci or de Stuteville
holding in Berwickshire, which came to the Muschamps
family with this marriage.

This would certainly increase what is known (or widely
known) as to the Muschamps' ancestry. Should anyone have
further relevant comment or documentation, concerning
Hassington, Berwickshire or the de Vesci - Muschamps link,
that would be most appreciated.

Cheers,

John








NOTES

[1] 'Matilda mater D. Rob. de Muscampo' - Registrum
Magni Sigilli Regum Scottorum pp. 19-20, No. 105.

[2] D. A. Briton, The Gentleman's Magazine Library
(London: Elliot Stock, 1905), XVII:16 - "English
Topography, Part XVII" (Vol. III), IV: County of
London: Camberwell", response to a query of 1825,
in Part II., pp. 518-520. The text is accessible
via Search.live.com

[3] Sanders, English Baronies, p. 100.

[4] Keith J. Stringer, Nobility and identity in medieval
Britain and Ireland: the de Vescy family,
c. 1120-1314, in Brendan Smith, ed., Britain and
Ireland, 900-1300: Insular Responses to Medieval
European Change (Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Press,
1999), p. 214.


* John P. Ravilious

[John P. Ravilious]

Tuesday, 15 January, 2008


Hello All,

Following is the updated AT for Sir John de Graham of Dalkeith
and Abercorn. The only updates are in fact related to the Vesci
descent (#29 and #58). Of some interest as a result of this 'new'
descent, we know the Muschamps were closely related to their de Vesci
overlords, as well as the Lacy Earls of Lincoln.

Cheers,

John





Ancestry of Sir John de Graham of Dalkeith

1 Sir John de Graham.
lord of Dalkeith and Abercorn, d. 25 Apr 1337

2 Sir Nicholas de Graham of Dalkeith
3 Mary of Strathearn.

4 Sir Henry de Graham of Dalkeith and Hutton.
5 NN Avenel.
6 Malise, Earl of Strathearn.
7 Marjorie de Muschamp (1st wife).
died bef 20 Mar 1254.

8 Sir Henry de Graham.
9 Christiana 'filia Ada '.
10 Roger Avenel of Eskdale.
11 NN.
12 Robert, Earl of Strathearn.
13 NN de Moravia.
14 Sir Robert de Muschamp, of Wooler, Northumberland.
15 Isabel.

16 Sir Henry de Graham of Dalkeith, and Simundburn, Northumbs.
17 NN.
18 Adam fitz Gilbert, of Kilbucho and Hutton.
19 Idonea Comyn.
20 Gervase Avenel, of Eskdale.
21 Sibyl.
22 NN.
23 NN.
24 Gilbert, Earl of Strathearn.
25 Matilda d'Aubigny (1st wife).
26 Hugh de Moravia of Duffus.
27 Annabela of Fife.
28 Thomas de Muschamp, of Wooler, Northumberland.
29 Matilda de Vesci.
30 NN.
31 NN.

32 Sir Peter de Graham of Dalkeith.
33 Geva.
34 NN.
35 NN.
36 Gilbert fitz Richer, of Tarbolton.
37 Juliana de Soulis.
38 Richard Comyn, of Northallerton and Tynedale (1st husband).
39 Hextilda, lady of Tynedale.
40 Robert Avenel, of Eskdale.
41 Sibyl.
42 NN.
43 NN.
44 NN.
45 NN.
46 NN.
47 NN.
48 Ferteth, Earl of Strathearn.
49 Ethna.
50 William d'Aubigny 'Brito', of Belvoir, co. Leicester.
51 Maud de St. Liz.
52 William de Moravia, of Duffus and Strathbrock.
53 NN.
54 Duncan mac Duff, Earl of Fife.
55 Ela, 'nepta' of Malcolm IV, King of Scots.
56 Stephen de Bulmer.
57 Cecily de Muschamp, heiress of her brother Ranulf.
58 William de Vesci, of Alnwick, Northumberland (d. 1183)
59 NN, first wife or mistress
60 NN.
61 NN.
62 NN.
63 NN.

* John P. Ravilious




On Jan 15, 5:15 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <[email protected]> wrote:

Tuesday, 15 January, 2008

Dear Doug,

Thanks for your replies, and the refs. to Tate's work
on the castle and families associated with Alnwick - this
was very much appreciated.

One of the very interesting pedigrees provided by the
author in one on pp. 407-9, which gives Matilda, wife of
Thomas de Muschamp, as a daughter of William de Vescy
(d. 1183), although by an unknown wife or mistress other
than his known wife Burga de Stuteville. The author
writes elsewhere, following problems noted concerning an
alleged de Vesci-de Bolebec union,

' It is different with the Muschamps. There was some
marriage there, and the evidences show pretty
clearly the the bridegroom and his father in law
died about the same time. His wife Matilda, was
doubtless, as stated, sister of Eustace de Vescy,
but much older. The charters tie the generations
so that we cannot surmise the confusion of two
Williams or two Eustaces, but we know that William
had an elder son William born in concubinage,
defending Alnwick Castle when Eustace was an
infant in arms, or little better. And it does
seem probable that Matilda Muschamp was only
sister by the half-blood to Eustace, either by
a former wife or a concubine. ' [1]

There are charters given in the appendix of the de
Vescis showing Muschamp witnesses; most importantly, there
is the citation from the Liber Feodorum [or Testa de
Nevill] which record the holdings of William de Vesci, a
record that can be dated 1242x1250. This includes the
following translation:

' Robert de Muschamp holds Chevelingham and Hibburn
by free marriage. ' [2]

The lack of the Stuteville ascent aside, this is an
important addition to the Muschamp (and Graham, Douglas
et al.) ancestries. I had posted an AT for Sir John de
Graham of Dalkeith (d. 1337) in a previous thread: I will
update this, and forward in a followup post.

Any further documentation is certainly welcome:
especially if anyone should be able to find William de
Vesci's "missing wife".

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] George Tate, F.G.S., The History of the Borough,
Castle, and Barony of Alnwick (Alnwick: Henry
Hunter Blair, 1866), I:397.

[2] Tate, ibid., I:74. The pedigree insertion for
Thomas de Muschamp (I:407) notes concerning
his son, "Robertus de Muschamp tenet - per liberum
maritagium. (Testa de Nevil)."

* John P. Ravilious

On Jan 15, 1:41�pm, Douglas Richardson <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear John ~

The evidence that there was a Vescy-Muschamp marriage appears to lie
in the fact that Robert de Muschamp held Chillingham and Hebburn [in
Chillingham] in 1242 "by free marriage" of the barony of William de
Vescy, who died in 1252:

See George Tate, The History of the Borough, Castle, and Barony of
Alnwick, pg. 74, which source can be found at the following website:

http://books.google.com/books?id=CgkNAA ... 397&dq=v...

The Muschamp-Vescy marriage is also discussed in Archaeologia Aeliana,
4th ser. 14 (1937): 248.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah