A bogus GARD on Wikipedia

[Gjest]

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation). It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

For instance, their mother was Maria Sophia, Countess of Kielmansegg
(a descendant of King Christian III of Denmark & Norway).

And their paternal grandmother was the Hon. Juliana Alington (a
descendant of Lady Dorothy Cecil, who in turn had multiple descents
from Edward III through John of Gaunt and Thomas of Woodstock).

But a quick glance at Debrett's or Burke's confirms that the Howe
Viscountcy became extinct in 1814, meaning that no male line
descendants were then living. And no "Joseph Howe" appears in the
pedigrees of the family.

The only reference cited by the author(s) of the Wikipedia article for
the statements that form the basis of the article is a 1927 book 'The
Family of Hoge [sic]' by James Hoge Tyler. It seems this was a most
unreliable source, perhaps not untypical of the time and place.

It also seems that this represents a further untruth/error in the
pretensions of fantasist David Drew Howe, who claims his father was
descended from the Viscounts Howe and thus from royalty.

I wonder how much further this fake GARD has penetrated.

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 8, 9:09 pm, [email protected] wrote:

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation).  It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

For instance, their mother was Maria Sophia, Countess of Kielmansegg
(a descendant of King Christian III of Denmark & Norway).

And their paternal grandmother was the Hon. Juliana Alington (a
descendant of Lady Dorothy Cecil, who in turn had multiple descents
from Edward III through John of Gaunt and Thomas of Woodstock).

see Leo's excellent site, http://www.genealogics.org

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 8, 9:09 pm, [email protected] wrote:

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation).  It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

An alternative pedigree is alleged in http://www.familysearch.org:

1. Prince Rupert of the Palatinate [grandson of King James VI & I]
2. Ruperta [illegitimate], married Gen. Emanuel Scrope Howe
3. James Howe
4. Joseph Howe of Virginia

I presume that the immediate descendants of Prince Rupert would be
fairly well known. Does anyone know if this Joseph Howe features
among them?

MA-R

[Nathaniel Taylor]

In article
<c416b59e-e437-4bdc-8e7e-0b44cf7be3b5@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com>,
[email protected] wrote:

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation). It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

But a quick glance at Debrett's or Burke's confirms that the Howe
Viscountcy became extinct in 1814, meaning that no male line
descendants were then living. And no "Joseph Howe" appears in the
pedigrees of the family.

The only reference cited by the author(s) of the Wikipedia article for
the statements that form the basis of the article is a 1927 book 'The
Family of Hoge [sic]' by James Hoge Tyler. It seems this was a most
unreliable source, perhaps not untypical of the time and place.

A perfectly typical book, which is viewable on the subscription service
ancestry.com.

As is typical, there is nothing in the book to substantiate the various,
typical, and conflicting oral traditions about the identity of this
Joseph Howe reported in that book (and reflected in the contradictions
in the Wikipedia blurb). The book deals mostly with a distinct family,
named 'Hoge', which nevertheless is claimed to have intermarried with
the Howes (it is not claimed that the 'Hoges' are male-line descendants
of this Joseph Howe), hence the interest in this Howe who would be
ancestral to one branch of the Hoges.

Is this Joseph Howe alleged to be the male-line ancestor of the Maryland
pretender? The Wikipedia page appears to have been created by a
college-age person living in Dusseldorf. Not part of a PR campaign by
the Maryland man.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

[nobody]

Why are you discussing this here rather than the associated Wikipedia
discussion page?

[email protected] wrote:

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation). It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

For instance, their mother was Maria Sophia, Countess of Kielmansegg
(a descendant of King Christian III of Denmark & Norway).

And their paternal grandmother was the Hon. Juliana Alington (a
descendant of Lady Dorothy Cecil, who in turn had multiple descents
from Edward III through John of Gaunt and Thomas of Woodstock).

But a quick glance at Debrett's or Burke's confirms that the Howe
Viscountcy became extinct in 1814, meaning that no male line
descendants were then living. And no "Joseph Howe" appears in the
pedigrees of the family.

The only reference cited by the author(s) of the Wikipedia article for
the statements that form the basis of the article is a 1927 book 'The
Family of Hoge [sic]' by James Hoge Tyler. It seems this was a most
unreliable source, perhaps not untypical of the time and place.

It also seems that this represents a further untruth/error in the
pretensions of fantasist David Drew Howe, who claims his father was
descended from the Viscounts Howe and thus from royalty.

I wonder how much further this fake GARD has penetrated.

MA-R

[Nathaniel Taylor]

In article <[email protected]>, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

Why are you discussing this here rather than the associated Wikipedia
discussion page?

Because Usenet is better than Wikipedia?

<ducks>

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

[nobody]

On a somewhat related note, I posted a short bio article on Wikipedia.
I got many of the details about the person wrong because I confused
the person with someone else with a similar name.

Another person created an external webpage insulting me and Wikipedia
on how stupid I was for posting such wrong information and providing
detailed information on why I was wrong.

It would have been so much simpler if this person just posted the
information he had on the Wikipedia discussion page and just updated
the article.

[email protected] wrote:

Here we see an article for an alleged member of the family of the
Viscounts Howe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Joseph_Howe

The article firstly states that Joseph was the brother of the 3rd, 4th
and 5th Viscounts Howe (Irish creation). It then partially recants
this, alleging that he was their "brother or cousin", and noting that
"some historians and genealogists have questioned this".

The 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts have numerous royal lines.

For instance, their mother was Maria Sophia, Countess of Kielmansegg
(a descendant of King Christian III of Denmark & Norway).

And their paternal grandmother was the Hon. Juliana Alington (a
descendant of Lady Dorothy Cecil, who in turn had multiple descents
from Edward III through John of Gaunt and Thomas of Woodstock).

But a quick glance at Debrett's or Burke's confirms that the Howe
Viscountcy became extinct in 1814, meaning that no male line
descendants were then living. And no "Joseph Howe" appears in the
pedigrees of the family.

The only reference cited by the author(s) of the Wikipedia article for
the statements that form the basis of the article is a 1927 book 'The
Family of Hoge [sic]' by James Hoge Tyler. It seems this was a most
unreliable source, perhaps not untypical of the time and place.

It also seems that this represents a further untruth/error in the
pretensions of fantasist David Drew Howe, who claims his father was
descended from the Viscounts Howe and thus from royalty.

I wonder how much further this fake GARD has penetrated.

MA-R

[Nathaniel Taylor]

In article <[email protected]>, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I posted a short bio article on Wikipedia.
I got many of the details about the person wrong because I confused
the person with someone else with a similar name.

Another person created an external webpage insulting me and Wikipedia
on how stupid I was for posting such wrong information and providing
detailed information on why I was wrong.

Could you be so kind as to cite the article and the webpage of which you
speak? Presumably you then took the detailed information and used it to
correct the errant entry.

It would have been so much simpler if this person just posted the
information he had on the Wikipedia discussion page and just updated
the article.

Putting up an independent webpage can be much simpler (and more
intellectually satisfying) than wrestling with Wikipedia's format &
editorial conventions, depending on one's technical knowledge base; it
would be for me.

Back to the on-topic material of the bogus gateway at hand.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

[Gjest]

On Jan 9, 1:42 am, Nathaniel Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

Is this Joseph Howe alleged to be the male-line ancestor of the Maryland
pretender?  

I don't know, but given that the Maryland fantasist is a Howe from
Virginia, and he claims to be descended from the Viscounts Howe, it
would seem there is a reasonable chance that he connects with this
Joseph Howe of Virginia, claimed [falsely] to be a member of the
vicomital family.

The perils of using Wikipedia and Ancestral File to build your
palaces.

Michael Andrews-Reading
http://www.unrealroyal.com

[Gjest]

On Jan 9, 4:01 am, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I posted a short bio article on Wikipedia.
I got many of the details about the person wrong because I confused
the person with someone else with a similar name.

Another person created an external webpage insulting me and Wikipedia
on how stupid I was for posting such wrong information and providing
detailed information on why I was wrong.

It would have been so much simpler if this person just posted the
information he had on the Wikipedia discussion page and just updated
the article.

I'm sorry to hear that - but it's always nice to know that nobody
cares

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 9, 1:42 am, Nathaniel Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

Is this Joseph Howe alleged to be the male-line ancestor of the Maryland
pretender?  

For what it is worth, Ancestral World Tree has this ascent for our
favourite fantasist:

http://awtc.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cg ... 2&id=I2781

1. David Drew Howe, born 30 September 1969
2. David Dale Edward Howe, born 2 April 1944, married Janice Debutts
3. Dwight David Howe [born c1920?], married Margy Larsen
4. David Clyde Howe (1896-1976), married Flossie E. Howard
5. Edgar Kingsbury Howe (1858-1940), married Nancy Kilmer
6. Thomas Howe, born 1820, married Jerusha Kilmer
7. Samuel Howe, born circa 1786 "NY/VT"

Curiously, it also shows a marriage for David Drew Howe to a Patricia
Schuggs, with a son Thaddius - Howe's website etc states he married
Pamela [Marie] Ahearn in 1994 and has a five-year old daughter Grace.
I do not know whether this is accurate or whether it calls the
reliability of this pedigree in particular into question.

MA-R

[wjhonson]

On Jan 10, 7:58 pm, [email protected] wrote:

For what it is worth, Ancestral World Tree has this ascent for our
favourite fantasist:
http://awtc.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cg ... 2&id=I2781
1. David Drew Howe, born 30 September 1969
2. David Dale Edward Howe, born 2 April 1944, married Janice Debutts
3. Dwight David Howe [born c1920?], married Margy Larsen
4. David Clyde Howe (1896-1976), married Flossie E. Howard
5. Edgar Kingsbury Howe (1858-1940), married Nancy Kilmer
6. Thomas Howe, born 1820, married Jerusha Kilmer
7. Samuel Howe, born circa 1786 "NY/VT"

I can add a bit of locational details to this.
David Clyde Howe has a WW1 Draft Registration Card
He was born 9 Jun 1896 Lincoln County, Nebaska.
We can match him in the SSDI to that one who died 4 Oct 1976 in
Shelton, Mason County, Washington.

His wife Flossie E Howard is then that one who died Jul 1987 also in
Shelton. She was born 27 May 1902 in Kansas per their 1930 Census
entry at Madison, Madison County, Nebraska

David Clyde Howe's parents were born in MI and KS respectively which
is a bit early for Kansas. Clyde Howe is in Madison, NE in the 1920
and then in the 1910 we get him with his widowed father "Edgar K Howe"
at Whitehouse, Woods County, Oklahoma

Will Johnson