Fw: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis as

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Fw: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis as

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 19. desember 2007 kl. 22.14

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval,
alt.history.british
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis as niece


On Dec 19, 12:48 pm, Renia <[email protected]> wrote:

Is that a French surname I see before me?

What do you mean, Renia?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

A simple enough question. Is Aubigny a French surname?


Count d'Angerville tells that this Nichole is a daughter of William
d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel, named in the Magna Charta and Mabel of Chester
Weiss (Ancestral Roots page 50, line 55) tells thar Roger de Somery married
(1) Nichole d'Aubigny (126-30) and there we find Nichole is a daughter of
William d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel and Mabel of Chester.

The Complete Peerage Volume I page 237 shows that Dugdale makes this William
a son of that William d'Aubigny who married Adeliza de Louvain widow of King
Henry I, and according to Courthope he is a grandson. On p233 in a footnote
we find that Aubigny is in the arrondisement of Coutances, dept of La
Manche. And so yes, Aubigny is a French name, lets hope Richardson has
learned something.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia.

Renia

Re: Fw: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis

Legg inn av Renia » 19. desember 2007 kl. 23.34

Leo van de Pas wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Richardson"
[email protected]
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval,
alt.history.british
To: <[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis as niece


On Dec 19, 12:48 pm, Renia <[email protected]> wrote:

Is that a French surname I see before me?

What do you mean, Renia?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

A simple enough question. Is Aubigny a French surname?

Count d'Angerville tells that this Nichole is a daughter of William
d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel, named in the Magna Charta and Mabel of Chester
Weiss (Ancestral Roots page 50, line 55) tells thar Roger de Somery
married (1) Nichole d'Aubigny (126-30) and there we find Nichole is a
daughter of William d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel and Mabel of Chester.

The Complete Peerage Volume I page 237 shows that Dugdale makes this
William a son of that William d'Aubigny who married Adeliza de Louvain
widow of King Henry I, and according to Courthope he is a grandson. On
p233 in a footnote we find that Aubigny is in the arrondisement of
Coutances, dept of La Manche. And so yes, Aubigny is a French name, lets
hope Richardson has learned something.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia.


Thanks Leo.

Hugh de Albiniaco was also mentioned. I wonder if they were from a
different area of France, such as Albi?

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/

Hugh de Albiniaco
Res. this preb. by 15 March 1263 (CPR 1258-66 p. 252).

Walter de Albiniaco
Royal coll. to this preb. on res. of Hugh de Albiniaco, s.v., 15 March
1263 (CPR 1258-66 p. 252). Custodian of queen's lands, 1264-7 (ibid. p.
336; 1266-72 p. 31).


Same source:
Early in the 13th century Normanton was subinfeudated. Robert Daubeney
(Albiniaco), son of William Daubeney, (fn. 4) presented to the church in
1227, and he or his son Robert presented in 1234. (fn. 5) Probably both
Robert the father and son died in that year, as Isabel, widow of William
de Hocton, (fn. 6) and a younger sister Ascelina are described as
daughters and heirs of Robert and sisters of Robert son of Robert. The
wardship of Ascelina was granted to Emery de St. Amand, who married her
to his son Ralph. (fn. 7) Eustachia, probably the second wife of Robert,
however, seems to have held Normanton in her own right. It may have been
she who, as Eustachia, widow of Robert de Sancto Albano, claimed a third
of 20 virgates and 5 acres of land in Normanton against Gilbert de
Umfraville in 1237, (fn. 8) and she or probably a daughter of the same
christian name held Normanton in her own right as wife of Gerard de
Fancourt, one of the king's justices. In 1271 Gerard de Fancourt and
Eustachia his wife granted a messuage and 8 virgates of land in
Normanton and the advowson of the church to Thomas de Normanville to be
held of them and the heirs of Eustachia. (fn. 9) In the same year Gerard
went on the Crusade (fn. 10) and possibly did not return. Robert
Daubeney had granted land to Belvoir Priory (co. Leic.) for the soul of
Eustachia his wife; and Eustachia de Fancourt, lady of Wywell, in her
widowhood, granted other lands to the priory in 1286 that she might be
buried there. (fn. 11) Thomas de Normanville died in 1295 holding a
capital messuage and 15 bovates of land in Normanton of Eustachia de
Fancourt, and left a son and heir Edmund, then aged 4 years. (fn. 12)
Eustachia as guardian and overlord of the heir presented to the church
in that year. (fn. 13) A Roger Fancourt had lands in Normanton in or
before 1292, (fn. 14) and may have been a son of Eustachia, but if so he
apparently predeceased her, as the mesne lordship seems to have lapsed
on her death at a great age, after 1295.

John P. Ravilious

Re: Fw: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 19. desember 2007 kl. 23.55

Dear Renia,

The problem (I should say one of the problems) in dealing with
this family is the variety of representations found for their
surname. With a French (Norman if you prefer) family having
essentially relocated to England, and having their name represented in
Latin, just add a penchant for inconsistent spelling and there you
have it.

D'Aubigny, also de Aubigny, are French, while renderings such as
de Albeneio, de Albiniaco, &c. are Latin. Daubeney is the one version
we see carrying over as an English rendering (later families, not
necessarily the same one, using Dabney). A peek at KSB K-R's Domesday
People and Domesday Descendants would reveal the 'home town' of the de
Aubigny Earls of Arundel (same family is ancestral to the Mowbray
Dukes of Norfolk), which I think will be found in Normandy. I'm not
aware of any emigrants from Albi, at least not until we get into the
Angevin (Plantagenet) period.

By the bye, the Daubeney family re: whom you provided the VCH
extract is that of Cainhoe, Bedfordshire. They are descended from
Nigel D'Aubeny (D'Aubigny, de Albini, etc.), a Domesday tenant in
Bedfordshire and younger brother of Roger d'Aubigny, ancestor of the
D'Aubigny (Arundel) and Mowbray families. See Domesday Descendants,
p. 269, and also J. H. Round, A d'Aubeney Cadet (The Ancestor XII:
149-151).

Cheers,

John



On Dec 19, 5:34 pm, Renia <[email protected]> wrote:
Leo van de Pas wrote:





----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Richardson"
[email protected]
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval,
alt.history.british
To: <[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis as niece

On Dec 19, 12:48 pm, Renia <[email protected]> wrote:

Is that a French surname I see before me?

What do you mean, Renia?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

A simple enough question. Is Aubigny a French surname?

Count d'Angerville tells that this Nichole is a daughter of William
d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel, named in the Magna Charta and Mabel of Chester
Weiss (Ancestral Roots page 50, line 55) tells thar Roger de Somery
married (1) Nichole d'Aubigny (126-30) and there we find Nichole is a
daughter of William d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel and Mabel of Chester.

The Complete Peerage Volume I page 237 shows that Dugdale makes this
William a son of that William d'Aubigny who married Adeliza de Louvain
widow of King Henry I, and according to Courthope he is a grandson. On
p233 in a footnote we find that Aubigny is in the arrondisement of
Coutances, dept of La Manche. And so yes, Aubigny is a French name, lets
hope Richardson has learned something.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia.

Thanks Leo.

Hugh de Albiniaco was also mentioned. I wonder if they were from a
different area of France, such as Albi?

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/

Hugh de Albiniaco
Res. this preb. by 15 March 1263 (CPR 1258-66 p. 252).

Walter de Albiniaco
Royal coll. to this preb. on res. of Hugh de Albiniaco, s.v., 15 March
1263 (CPR 1258-66 p. 252). Custodian of queen's lands, 1264-7 (ibid. p.
336; 1266-72 p. 31).

Same source:
Early in the 13th century Normanton was subinfeudated. Robert Daubeney
(Albiniaco), son of William Daubeney, (fn. 4) presented to the church in
1227, and he or his son Robert presented in 1234. (fn. 5) Probably both
Robert the father and son died in that year, as Isabel, widow of William
de Hocton, (fn. 6) and a younger sister Ascelina are described as
daughters and heirs of Robert and sisters of Robert son of Robert. The
wardship of Ascelina was granted to Emery de St. Amand, who married her
to his son Ralph. (fn. 7) Eustachia, probably the second wife of Robert,
however, seems to have held Normanton in her own right. It may have been
she who, as Eustachia, widow of Robert de Sancto Albano, claimed a third
of 20 virgates and 5 acres of land in Normanton against Gilbert de
Umfraville in 1237, (fn. 8) and she or probably a daughter of the same
christian name held Normanton in her own right as wife of Gerard de
Fancourt, one of the king's justices. In 1271 Gerard de Fancourt and
Eustachia his wife granted a messuage and 8 virgates of land in
Normanton and the advowson of the church to Thomas de Normanville to be
held of them and the heirs of Eustachia. (fn. 9) In the same year Gerard
went on the Crusade (fn. 10) and possibly did not return. Robert
Daubeney had granted land to Belvoir Priory (co. Leic.) for the soul of
Eustachia his wife; and Eustachia de Fancourt, lady of Wywell, in her
widowhood, granted other lands to the priory in 1286 that she might be
buried there. (fn. 11) Thomas de Normanville died in 1295 holding a
capital messuage and 15 bovates of land in Normanton of Eustachia de
Fancourt, and left a son and heir Edmund, then aged 4 years. (fn. 12)
Eustachia as guardian and overlord of the heir presented to the church
in that year. (fn. 13) A Roger Fancourt had lands in Normanton in or
before 1292, (fn. 14) and may have been a son of Eustachia, but if so he
apparently predeceased her, as the mesne lordship seems to have lapsed
on her death at a great age, after 1295.

Gjest

Re: Fw: Example of Colette in English medieval record/Neptis

Legg inn av Gjest » 20. desember 2007 kl. 7.10

On Dec 19, 2:54 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <[email protected]> wrote:

By the bye, the Daubeney family re: whom you provided the VCH
extract is that of Cainhoe, Bedfordshire. They are descended from
Nigel D'Aubeny (D'Aubigny, de Albini, etc.), a Domesday tenant in
Bedfordshire and younger brother of Roger d'Aubigny, ancestor of the
D'Aubigny (Arundel) and Mowbray families. See Domesday Descendants,
p. 269, and also J. H. Round, A d'Aubeney Cadet (The Ancestor XII:
149-151).

Loyd derives the family from Saint-Martin d'Aubigny: Manche, arr.
Coutances, cant. Periers, based on a grant naming not only Aubney but
also toponyms consistent with neighboring communities.

taf

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»