I wanted to thank you folks here for helping me break through what at
first seemed to be an insurmountable barrier---made worse by my
grandfather's predilection for changing his name.
It's taken about two and a half months of work, not to mention finding
out about nifty tools like SS-5 forms and learning to navigate various
online resources, but I finally found out who my grandfather was...and
wasn't.
He wasn't (as he claimed on his SS-5 and other official documents) Alva
Elwood MacLaughlan, and neither was his father called Thomas MacLaughlan
nor was his mother's maiden name Elwood. MacLaughlan was a phantom, as is
my ephemeral Scottish heritage.
Alva was actually Alfred Edward Petersen. His mother Catherine's maiden
name was Petersen as well. I'm particularly grateful to Lorine McGinnis
Schultze for pointing me toward the 1910 census, which had some good
familial clues, and to a post from a long-lost half-cousin also looking
for information on my side of the family.
Through that cousin and I found an even closer relative who was actually
my great-grandmother's granddaughter via a second marriage, and yesterday
she remembered my great-grandfather's first name---without which I'd been
struggling to search the 1900 Chicago census, to no avail.
He was Hans Petersen and he lived in Chicago with his wife Catherine and
five living children, two of whom were completely unknown in my family
history. Alfred is the middle child, surrounded by Petersens. Two or
three of the older children were born in Nebraska, so now the family
landscape expands even further. I'm very grateful for all the help from
this newsgroup!
I do have a further question now that I have some actual names to
research. Can someone verify whether I'm on the right track?
In the 1880 census I found a Hans and Catherine Petersen living in Belle
Prairie, Nebraska. Their ages work out almost perfectly, perhaps 6-12
months off. This would have been one year after their marriage so there
are no children yet, but it would be consistent with their first three
children having been born there.
On the 1900 census Hans and Catherine are from Germany, and in subsequent
census records (Hans died around 1905) Catherine lists her home country
as Germany. But in the 1880 Nebraska census this couple is from Prussia.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely place
for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
----
saki@ucla.edu
Brick wall smashed!
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Robert Melson
Re: Brick wall smashed!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday 17 August 2004 17:09, saki wrote:
<snip>
Congratulations! Wish I could do the same with _my_ maternal
grandfather.
IIRC, you'd need a large map of northern and eastern Europe to actually
see Prussia -- it was well to the east of the boundaries shown on the
may you point to.
HTH
Bob
- --
Robert G. Melson Nothing is more terrible than
Rio Grande MicroSolutions ignorance in action.
El Paso, Texas Goethe
melsonr(at)earthlink(dot)net
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=Ar32
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Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday 17 August 2004 17:09, saki wrote:
<snip>
Congratulations! Wish I could do the same with _my_ maternal
grandfather.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely
place for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
IIRC, you'd need a large map of northern and eastern Europe to actually
see Prussia -- it was well to the east of the boundaries shown on the
may you point to.
HTH
Bob
- --
Robert G. Melson Nothing is more terrible than
Rio Grande MicroSolutions ignorance in action.
El Paso, Texas Goethe
melsonr(at)earthlink(dot)net
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-
Clif
Re: Brick wall smashed!
Congrats! messages like that gives everyone against a brick wall hope
Clif
"saki" <saki@ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9548A470E8CDEsakiuclaedu@169.232.47.140...
Clif
"saki" <saki@ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9548A470E8CDEsakiuclaedu@169.232.47.140...
I wanted to thank you folks here for helping me break through what at
first seemed to be an insurmountable barrier---made worse by my
grandfather's predilection for changing his name.
It's taken about two and a half months of work, not to mention finding
out about nifty tools like SS-5 forms and learning to navigate various
online resources, but I finally found out who my grandfather was...and
wasn't.
He wasn't (as he claimed on his SS-5 and other official documents) Alva
Elwood MacLaughlan, and neither was his father called Thomas MacLaughlan
nor was his mother's maiden name Elwood. MacLaughlan was a phantom, as is
my ephemeral Scottish heritage.
Alva was actually Alfred Edward Petersen. His mother Catherine's maiden
name was Petersen as well. I'm particularly grateful to Lorine McGinnis
Schultze for pointing me toward the 1910 census, which had some good
familial clues, and to a post from a long-lost half-cousin also looking
for information on my side of the family.
Through that cousin and I found an even closer relative who was actually
my great-grandmother's granddaughter via a second marriage, and yesterday
she remembered my great-grandfather's first name---without which I'd been
struggling to search the 1900 Chicago census, to no avail.
He was Hans Petersen and he lived in Chicago with his wife Catherine and
five living children, two of whom were completely unknown in my family
history. Alfred is the middle child, surrounded by Petersens. Two or
three of the older children were born in Nebraska, so now the family
landscape expands even further. I'm very grateful for all the help from
this newsgroup!
I do have a further question now that I have some actual names to
research. Can someone verify whether I'm on the right track?
In the 1880 census I found a Hans and Catherine Petersen living in Belle
Prairie, Nebraska. Their ages work out almost perfectly, perhaps 6-12
months off. This would have been one year after their marriage so there
are no children yet, but it would be consistent with their first three
children having been born there.
On the 1900 census Hans and Catherine are from Germany, and in subsequent
census records (Hans died around 1905) Catherine lists her home country
as Germany. But in the 1880 Nebraska census this couple is from Prussia.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely place
for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
----
saki@ucla.edu
-
saki
Re: Brick wall smashed!
Robert Melson <melsonr@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote in news:KIwUc.26139
$9Y6.20424@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
It was a very precarious search at times. I believe there's only one
person living (my cousin, whom I'd never met and didn't even know about
previous to this search) who would actually have known my great-
grandfather's first name, and by good fortune I was able to find her.
She has a family bible that apparently lists the two marriages, all the
children and their relevant dates. I'm hoping to get a scan of this in a
few weeks.
It astounds me how easily family history can be lost. Mine almost was.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
----
saki@ucla.edu
$9Y6.20424@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday 17 August 2004 17:09, saki wrote:
snip
Congratulations! Wish I could do the same with _my_ maternal
grandfather.
It was a very precarious search at times. I believe there's only one
person living (my cousin, whom I'd never met and didn't even know about
previous to this search) who would actually have known my great-
grandfather's first name, and by good fortune I was able to find her.
She has a family bible that apparently lists the two marriages, all the
children and their relevant dates. I'm hoping to get a scan of this in a
few weeks.
It astounds me how easily family history can be lost. Mine almost was.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely
place for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
IIRC, you'd need a large map of northern and eastern Europe to actually
see Prussia -- it was well to the east of the boundaries shown on the
may you point to.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
----
saki@ucla.edu
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Brick wall smashed!
Danish style -sen patronymics are found in North germany due to boundary changes
Altona - now a suburb of Hamburg used to be danish too
and war Prussia defeated Denmark in 1864 and took Schlesvig Holstein
to this day there are danish speaking communities in Germany
see
Danish personal names and naming FAQ http://www.rootsweb.com/~dnkcen/FAQ/names.html
see http://www.horlacher.org/
Gary T. Horlacher would be worth consulting
http://www.horlacher.org/progress.htm
http://www.milhist.dk/1864/1864/1864.html
insurgents but the political issue had not been solved. The Danish government wanted to annex the duchy of Schleswig to the Danish
kingdom while the Prussian government under Bismarck, for internal political and strategic reasons, wanted Schleswig to finally
became a part of Germany.
In this goal it was backed by Austria. In December 1863 Allied troops entered Holstein without interference from the Danish army and
demanded that the Danish forces be withdrawn from Schleswig, The Danes rejected this ultimatum and on the 1st of February 1864 the
war began.<<
The war had ended as a disaster for Denmark. Any ideas of war as an political instrument had vanished and to the present day Danish
foreign policy has been marked by this defeat.
After a plebiscite in 1920 the northern part of Schleswig was returned to Denmark.<<
A dislike of Prussian conscription and ante-danish discrimination caused many men to immigrate some indirectly via Copenhagen or
England
Your next job is to search the ships lists and naturalisation and family records for clues as to a home parish in germany or Denmark
Hans and Catherine Petersen is a fatally common name combination so be very carful to work one tiny step at a time backwards
toavoid errors
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl ... tnG=Search
about 6,280 for "Hans Petersen".
about 591 for "catherine Petersen".
the best records are not on line - seek help at a family history centre
and even more is not filmed but in MSS in archives in Denamrk and Germany
Hans is short for Johanes or John
good hunting
Hugh W
--
I'm trying to make a weB LOG weekly
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/
http://www.genealogi.co.uk
"saki" <saki@ucla.edu> wrote in message news:Xns9548A470E8CDEsakiuclaedu@169.232.47.140...
Altona - now a suburb of Hamburg used to be danish too
and war Prussia defeated Denmark in 1864 and took Schlesvig Holstein
to this day there are danish speaking communities in Germany
see
Danish personal names and naming FAQ http://www.rootsweb.com/~dnkcen/FAQ/names.html
see http://www.horlacher.org/
Gary T. Horlacher would be worth consulting
http://www.horlacher.org/progress.htm
http://www.milhist.dk/1864/1864/1864.html
The Three Year War from 1848-50 fought over the Schleswig issue had ended with a Danish military victory over the Schleswig-Holstein
insurgents but the political issue had not been solved. The Danish government wanted to annex the duchy of Schleswig to the Danish
kingdom while the Prussian government under Bismarck, for internal political and strategic reasons, wanted Schleswig to finally
became a part of Germany.
In this goal it was backed by Austria. In December 1863 Allied troops entered Holstein without interference from the Danish army and
demanded that the Danish forces be withdrawn from Schleswig, The Danes rejected this ultimatum and on the 1st of February 1864 the
war began.<<
The war had ended as a disaster for Denmark. Any ideas of war as an political instrument had vanished and to the present day Danish
foreign policy has been marked by this defeat.
After a plebiscite in 1920 the northern part of Schleswig was returned to Denmark.<<
A dislike of Prussian conscription and ante-danish discrimination caused many men to immigrate some indirectly via Copenhagen or
England
Your next job is to search the ships lists and naturalisation and family records for clues as to a home parish in germany or Denmark
Hans and Catherine Petersen is a fatally common name combination so be very carful to work one tiny step at a time backwards
toavoid errors
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl ... tnG=Search
about 6,280 for "Hans Petersen".
about 591 for "catherine Petersen".
the best records are not on line - seek help at a family history centre
and even more is not filmed but in MSS in archives in Denamrk and Germany
Hans is short for Johanes or John
good hunting
Hugh W
--
I'm trying to make a weB LOG weekly
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/
http://www.genealogi.co.uk
"saki" <saki@ucla.edu> wrote in message news:Xns9548A470E8CDEsakiuclaedu@169.232.47.140...
I wanted to thank you folks here for helping me break through what at
first seemed to be an insurmountable barrier---made worse by my
grandfather's predilection for changing his name.
It's taken about two and a half months of work, not to mention finding
out about nifty tools like SS-5 forms and learning to navigate various
online resources, but I finally found out who my grandfather was...and
wasn't.
He wasn't (as he claimed on his SS-5 and other official documents) Alva
Elwood MacLaughlan, and neither was his father called Thomas MacLaughlan
nor was his mother's maiden name Elwood. MacLaughlan was a phantom, as is
my ephemeral Scottish heritage.
Alva was actually Alfred Edward Petersen. His mother Catherine's maiden
name was Petersen as well. I'm particularly grateful to Lorine McGinnis
Schultze for pointing me toward the 1910 census, which had some good
familial clues, and to a post from a long-lost half-cousin also looking
for information on my side of the family.
Through that cousin and I found an even closer relative who was actually
my great-grandmother's granddaughter via a second marriage, and yesterday
she remembered my great-grandfather's first name---without which I'd been
struggling to search the 1900 Chicago census, to no avail.
He was Hans Petersen and he lived in Chicago with his wife Catherine and
five living children, two of whom were completely unknown in my family
history. Alfred is the middle child, surrounded by Petersens. Two or
three of the older children were born in Nebraska, so now the family
landscape expands even further. I'm very grateful for all the help from
this newsgroup!
I do have a further question now that I have some actual names to
research. Can someone verify whether I'm on the right track?
In the 1880 census I found a Hans and Catherine Petersen living in Belle
Prairie, Nebraska. Their ages work out almost perfectly, perhaps 6-12
months off. This would have been one year after their marriage so there
are no children yet, but it would be consistent with their first three
children having been born there.
On the 1900 census Hans and Catherine are from Germany, and in subsequent
census records (Hans died around 1905) Catherine lists her home country
as Germany. But in the 1880 Nebraska census this couple is from Prussia.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely place
for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
----
saki@ucla.edu
-
singhals
Re: Brick wall smashed!
saki wrote:
Schleswig-Holstein is a *VERY* likely place for Petersens. Whether it
was Prussia at any point is something I lack info on. (g) Sorry.
However, even if it was, what then becomes relevant is -- was it Prussia
in 1880, or when they were born, or when they left? Try the
http://www.worldgenweb.org for Central Europe and see what they say about Prussia.
Cheryl
I wanted to thank you folks here for helping me break through what at
first seemed to be an insurmountable barrier---made worse by my
grandfather's predilection for changing his name.
It's taken about two and a half months of work, not to mention finding
out about nifty tools like SS-5 forms and learning to navigate various
online resources, but I finally found out who my grandfather was...and
wasn't.
He wasn't (as he claimed on his SS-5 and other official documents) Alva
Elwood MacLaughlan, and neither was his father called Thomas MacLaughlan
nor was his mother's maiden name Elwood. MacLaughlan was a phantom, as is
my ephemeral Scottish heritage.
Alva was actually Alfred Edward Petersen. His mother Catherine's maiden
name was Petersen as well. I'm particularly grateful to Lorine McGinnis
Schultze for pointing me toward the 1910 census, which had some good
familial clues, and to a post from a long-lost half-cousin also looking
for information on my side of the family.
Through that cousin and I found an even closer relative who was actually
my great-grandmother's granddaughter via a second marriage, and yesterday
she remembered my great-grandfather's first name---without which I'd been
struggling to search the 1900 Chicago census, to no avail.
He was Hans Petersen and he lived in Chicago with his wife Catherine and
five living children, two of whom were completely unknown in my family
history. Alfred is the middle child, surrounded by Petersens. Two or
three of the older children were born in Nebraska, so now the family
landscape expands even further. I'm very grateful for all the help from
this newsgroup!
I do have a further question now that I have some actual names to
research. Can someone verify whether I'm on the right track?
In the 1880 census I found a Hans and Catherine Petersen living in Belle
Prairie, Nebraska. Their ages work out almost perfectly, perhaps 6-12
months off. This would have been one year after their marriage so there
are no children yet, but it would be consistent with their first three
children having been born there.
On the 1900 census Hans and Catherine are from Germany, and in subsequent
census records (Hans died around 1905) Catherine lists her home country
as Germany. But in the 1880 Nebraska census this couple is from Prussia.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time. But was Prussia a likely place
for Petersens? I know about this site:
Schleswig-Holstein is a *VERY* likely place for Petersens. Whether it
was Prussia at any point is something I lack info on. (g) Sorry.
However, even if it was, what then becomes relevant is -- was it Prussia
in 1880, or when they were born, or when they left? Try the
http://www.worldgenweb.org for Central Europe and see what they say about Prussia.
Cheryl
-
Dave Hinz
Re: Brick wall smashed!
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:09:35 +0000 (UTC), saki <saki@ucla.edu> wrote:
Fantastic!
Well, my ggf (Herman Carl Hinz) was from Pommern, but depending on the
census he listed himself as either from Pomerania or from Germany. He
claimed "Germany" until WWI, Pommerania after that. So, it could be
that "Germany" was an accurate-enough answer for the purposes of the
census.
Petersen is a patronymic name, literally at some point it was "son of Peter".
Much of Prussia used to be under Swedish control, and Sweden used patronyms
well into the 1800's. So, it's certainly plausible.
I see the map shows that the norther areas, closest to Denmark (and Sweden)
have the highest occurance of Petersen, which makes perfect sense. If your
question is "Where is Prussia on this map", perhaps these maps will help:
http://www.feefhs.org/maps/indexmap.html - specifically of interest is
probably thsi 1890 map showing Pommern and Prussia:
http://feefhs.org/maps/gere/ge-pomer.html
Hope this is of some use to you - I've enjoyed your contributions over
in RMBM for many years.
Dave Hinz
It's taken about two and a half months of work, not to mention finding
out about nifty tools like SS-5 forms and learning to navigate various
online resources, but I finally found out who my grandfather was...and
wasn't.
Fantastic!
On the 1900 census Hans and Catherine are from Germany, and in subsequent
census records (Hans died around 1905) Catherine lists her home country
as Germany. But in the 1880 Nebraska census this couple is from Prussia.
I'm aware that Prussia was absorbed into Germany so that could account
for the country origin changing over time.
Well, my ggf (Herman Carl Hinz) was from Pommern, but depending on the
census he listed himself as either from Pomerania or from Germany. He
claimed "Germany" until WWI, Pommerania after that. So, it could be
that "Germany" was an accurate-enough answer for the purposes of the
census.
But was Prussia a likely place
for Petersens? I know about this site:
http://www.tr62.de/names/maps/petersen.html
Petersen is a patronymic name, literally at some point it was "son of Peter".
Much of Prussia used to be under Swedish control, and Sweden used patronyms
well into the 1800's. So, it's certainly plausible.
which nicely illustrates the areas of Germany where the Petersen name
originated. But I can't tell whether Prussia encompassed any of these
regions as well. Does anyone know?
I see the map shows that the norther areas, closest to Denmark (and Sweden)
have the highest occurance of Petersen, which makes perfect sense. If your
question is "Where is Prussia on this map", perhaps these maps will help:
http://www.feefhs.org/maps/indexmap.html - specifically of interest is
probably thsi 1890 map showing Pommern and Prussia:
http://feefhs.org/maps/gere/ge-pomer.html
Hope this is of some use to you - I've enjoyed your contributions over
in RMBM for many years.
Dave Hinz