Heather Tanner: Correction re. Alice of Northunberland, wife

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Douglas Richardson

Heather Tanner: Correction re. Alice of Northunberland, wife

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 27 sep 2004 18:22:27

Dear Newsgroup ~

I had the opportunity this past week of examining the interesting and
well researched book, Families, Friends and Allies (2004), by Heather
J. Tanner. This new work concerns the history of Boulogne in northern
France from c. 879 to 1160. Inasmuch as well over half of the 17th
Century American colonial immigrants with royal ancestry descend from
the early Counts of Boulogne, Ms. Tanner's book is doubtless of great
interest to most people who post here on the newsgroup.

In her flagship genealogical chart on the "Comital Family of Boulogne"
found on pages 290-291, Ms. Tanner states that Countess Judith (niece
of William the Conqueror) and her husband, Earl Waltheof, had two
daughters, Maud (called Matilda by Tanner) [wife successively of Simon
de Senlis, and David, King of Scotland], and Judith [wife of Ralph de
Tosny].

That the name of Countess Judith's younger daughter was Alice, not
Judith, is attested by Complete Peerage, 12 Pt. 1 (1953): 760-762 (sub
Tony). Complete Peerage cites two contemporary charters which name
her as Alice, one issued during her husband's lifetime, and one issued
during her widowhood. Full transcripts of both charters are provided
below [see items #1-2 below]. She is also named Alice in the 13th
Century source, Vita et passio venerabilis viri Gualdevi comitis
Huntendonie et Norhantonie [see item #3 below]. Vita et passio
specifically states that Alice, daughter of Countess Judith, married
Ralph de Tony and that she received various properties in marriage,
including the manors of Walthamstow, Essex and Kirtling,
Cambridgeshire. That Alice had the manor of Walthamstow in marriage
is confirmed by her subsequent gift of the advowson of this place to
Holy Trinity Priory, London [see item #2 below].

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: douglasrichardson@msn.com

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

1. Charter

Date: 1102-1126 Norfolk

MS.: B.M. Add., 28024, fo. 183.

Grant by Ralph de Tony IV and his wife Alice to William son of
Estangrin of everything they hold in the soke of Necton, except
Pickenham (Norf), as Estangrin held it from Ralph's father in fee
farm, at an annual rent of £80. He also grants 4 roebuck annually to
William; one to his wife, and license to hunt hares outside his wood.

"Radulfus de Toenio omnibus de soca Neketonie, tam Francis quam
Anglis, salutem. Concedo Guillelmo filio Estrangrini totam quod habeo
in soca Neketonie, ita quod in quoque anno reddat iiijxx libras, sicut
suus pater Estrangin a meo patre umquam melius habuit in feofirma,
sibi concedo et suo heredi, ego et (merus) meus heres et mea uxor
Aelica. Picheham autem in foris de firma retineo. Do etiam sibi quoque
anno iiijor capreos; et sue uxori unum; et extra silvam poterit fugare
lepores. Et si voluero capere aliquam villam ut darem vel mutuem
alicui militi, prout Guillelmus instauravit ita accipiam quod dabo
sibi quantum et alius dedit vel ponam sibi indica sua. Et si quis vel
instauravit xx solidos plusquam reddat ponam quoque anno indica sua.
Et si quis voluerit mihi plus crescere in firma non inferam Guillelmo,
sed teneat honorifice. Terra sua erit michi abses quod mihi meam
firmam reddat tribus terminis: id est festo Candelerum er Pentecoste
et sancti Michaelis reddetur firma quoque termino xxvj libras et j
marcam argenti, et si uno defecerit aliquid secundo vel tertio
termino, totum reddetur hec michi tenendum jurabit. Testes sunt: G.
Blandus, G. de Portes, R. Grossus, N.de Minaris, G. capellanus, R. de
Achingneis, tota socca Neketon', tam Franci quam Anglici, S. de Lira,
Olivec sacerdos, Olmarcus de Fraunsoc, Guillelmus suus socius,
Olmarcus de Neketon', Normanus, Oliverus filius Tolgner, Brismer de
Acre, Tostenus Saver', Oliverus de Ostona, Bondus de Cressyngham
Gorham, Petrus de Crennis, Olfart de Catetona, Godwynus diaconus,
Johannes sacerdos, Elmerus de Acra. Valete." [Reference: Emma Mason,
ed., The Beauchamp Cartulary Charters 1100-1268 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc.
n.s. 43) (1980): 202].

2. Charter

Holy Trinity Priory, London

Charter of Alice de Toeni of the church of Walthamstow, Essex.

R. Dei gratia Lond. episcopo, universisque sanctæ ecclesiæ filiis,
Aliz de Toenio salutem et obsequia. Sciatis me dedisse et concessisse
ecclesiæ S. Trinitatis Lond. et canonicis in ea Deo servientibus, in
elemosinam, pro salute animæ Hugonis de Toeni filii mei, qui ibidem
jacet sepultus; et pro salute animæ Radulphi de Toeni mariti mei, et
meæ, et omnium antecessorum meorum; et pro incolumitate filiorum
meorum, Rogeri de Toeni et Simonis, et filiæ meæ Isabellæ, et aliorum
parentum et amicorum meorum, ecclesiam de Welcomstowe, cum decimis et
pratis et terris, et cæteris omnibus, tam in bosco quam in plano ad
eam pertinentibus, sicut Ordricus presbyter tenuit, cujus petitione id
feci, quando prædictæ ecclesiæ S. Trinitatis se in canonicum dedit.
Insuper dedi eidem ecclesiæ, de cremento, dimidiam virgatam terræ, et
acram de prato, solutam et quietam sicut elemosinam. Hujus donationis
testes sunt Simon filius meus, Isabella filia mea, et Moyses
presbyter, et Elias clericus, et Ricardus de Portis et Willelmus de
Orivals [Reference: William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6 Pt. 1
(1830): 152].

3. Vita et passio venerabilis viri Gualdevi comitis Huntendonie et
Norhantonie 13th Century MS. in the Douai library

"Afterwards the aforesaid Waltheof, being reconciled with king
[William], received as a gift the marriage of [the king's] niece
Judith, and the great friendship of the king. Because of the nobility
of his race, and the extent of his possessions and properties, king
William granted him all his land, in peace, in freedom, and without
cost; and gave him, to be his wife, his niece Judith, the daughter of
Count Lambert of Lens, and sister of the noble man Stephen, Count of
Aumale. With her the king conferred upon and conceded to [Waltheof]
all the liberties that belong to the honour of Huntingdon. And in the
celebration of marriage and nuptials the earl conferred upon his wife,
in name of dowry, all his lands that extended from the river Trent
towards the south. In the course of time she received from her husband
two daughters, namely Maud and Alice.

Of the countess: The countess Judith, earl Waltheof's widow, after the
death of her lord, along with her two daughters had the lordship of
the honour of Huntingdon, which had been conferred upon her in name of
dowry. And they lived there, until the king wished to give [Judith] in
marriage to a certain knight, a native of France, called Simon de
Senlis ... Judith refused, because Simon was somewhat lame .... And
for this reason the king burst into indignation; and burning with the
vehemence of his anger conferred the whole honour of Huntingdon, as
having devolved upon the king's hands, upon the said Simon. And
thenceforward the same Simon was called the earl of Northampton and of
Huntingdon: and for a long time he held the lands and possessions that
pertain to them."

Comitissa vero Juetta latitando fugit per mariscum de Ely et alias,
cum filiabus suis latebras quærendo, pro timore regis et comitis
Simonis exterrita. Consilio quidem sic præloquuto, comes Simon
Matildam primogenitam Waldevi sibi matrimonialiter associavit. Dictus
autem Simon Aliciam sororem uxoris suæ, tradidit in uxorem nobili viro
Radulfo de Tony cum centum libratis terræ de honore de Huntendonia,
cum Welthamestowia, Kercelinges, et aliis terris et possessionibus.
[Reference: Francisque Michel, Chroniques Anglo-Normandes 2 (1836-40):
112].

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