Kerry royal descent

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Kerry royal descent

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 sep 2004 21:58:19

In an article in the Wall Street Journal Septemeber 2, Karl Zinsmeister,
editor in chief of The American Enterprise (TAEmag.com) states about John Kerry
"experts describe his bloodlines as 'more royal than any previous
American President' "

Do the experts on this forum agree ?

Robert Bowman

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Kerry royal descent

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 08 sep 2004 22:25:40

In article <s13ef385.068@CENTRAL_SVR2>,
hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us ("Tony Hoskins") wrote:

Allow me to express my fervent hope that GW's
arguable royal-genealogical supremacy will never be challenged by the
reality of a Kerry presidency.

I would rather such comments be kept off the list, please. There are
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.

Nat Taylor

Tony Hoskins

Re: Kerry royal descent

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 08 sep 2004 22:57:00

"experts describe his bloodlines as 'more royal than any previous
American President' "

I agree. It is though to some extent a numbers game, as more
recently-born candidates will have better odds of having more (if any)
royal lines. Kerry descends a quite unusual number of times from Edward
III. Among more recent presidents or candidates, only perhaps FDR can
approach Kerry in this regard.

Among presidents, though, I think George Washington stands out (as well
he should) from all the rest in the realm of "glittering" ancestry -
examined in terms of chronology. Given his reduced chances of numerous
lines (due to his being born 2 1/2 centuries ago) his royal descents are
surprisingly numerous. Allow me to express my fervent hope that GW's
arguable royal-genealogical supremacy will never be challenged by the
reality of a Kerry presidency.



Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Tony Hoskins

Re: Kerry royal descent

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 09 sep 2004 01:43:30

<I would rather such comments be kept off the list, please. There are
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.


Dear Mr. Taylor,

Thank you for calling to my attention something I was remiss in noting:
that GEN-MEDIEVAL invariably limits its discussions to issues within the
narrowest compass of matters medieval-genealogical. I must have confused
this group with another where, not so long ago, I saw some rather
fanciful forays into unrelated territory.

Duly chastened, I remain,

Yours in anticipation of a joyous November,

Anthony Hoskins
Santa Rosa, California

Martin E. Hollick

Re: Kerry royal descent

Legg inn av Martin E. Hollick » 09 sep 2004 02:41:59

It is a numbers game. However, no is defining what makes one royal or
how one measures royalty in one's ancestry. So someone else can
supply the definition—here's the numbers.

If one goes by the number of ancestors with a royal line (that is
emigrants to North America), then John Kerry has eleven and the most
of anyone. Others are:

FDR 9 lines
George W. Bush 8 lines (6 from his father; two from his mother)
George Washington 3 lines

If one goes by the fewest intervening generations back to a King then:
George Washington is 16th in descent from both Edward III and Edward
I. However, James Buchanan is only 15th in descent from Robert III,
King of Scotland. You can debate this back and forth. Buchanan has
only one royal line—Washington has three. Robert III died in 1406 and
is a more current King than Edward III who died in 1377.

If you give slack for presidents born later for more intervening
generations, one would also have to include Theodore Roosevelt, who is
16th in descent from James I of Scotland (d. 1437) and FDR who is 18th
in descent from James II of Scotland (d. 1460). Theodore has only
three royal lines but is in the same order of descent as George
Washington despite being born in 1858 (G. Washington born in 1732), so
roughly a good four generations later. Likewise, FDR, born in 1882, a
full generation after TR and therefore five generations after
Washington looks like the winner in the closest in descent category.

These numbers come from Gary Boyd Roberts' two books: Ancestors of
the American Presidents and RD600.

John Brandon

Re: Kerry Royal Descent

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 sep 2004 05:54:16

Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?

DSH

Leave it to old DSH to come up with a silly, improbable question ...

Leo van de Pas

Re: Kerry Royal Descent

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 09 sep 2004 08:06:47

Why? When we are talking about 15th cousins and more, why would this not be
possible?
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kerry Royal Descent


Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?

DSH

Leave it to old DSH to come up with a silly, improbable question ...


John Brandon

Re: Kerry Royal Descent

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 sep 2004 15:24:42

Why? When we are talking about 15th cousins and more, why would this not be
possible?

It is remotely possible, I guess, but not really *too* likely, at least IMHO.

Daniel MacGregor

Re: Kerry Royal Descent

Legg inn av Daniel MacGregor » 09 sep 2004 19:35:34

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hzK%c.1183$KQ1.7825@eagle.america.net>...
Effete, Milquetoast Balderdash...

The man has a perfect right to speak his piece.

Nat posts from the People's Republic of Massachusetts, of course -- and
is probably a staunch Kerry supporter -- as are most of the Harvard
Faculty.

Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?


I asked the same question over a decade ago. The answer, at the time,
was that no one really knows. Tony's Hoskins family, if I recall
correctly, was a late 17th or early 18th century arrival in Maryland.

With Bob Hoskins' Cockney roots, though, I probably have the better
chance of being related to him, as my mother's father, James Alfred
Batson (1888-1942) was born in Shoreditch just a few months before the
first of the Whitechapel Murders, and was the fourth (at least, on the
Batson side) generation of his family to live in London. My
great-grandfather, James Batson, was a fret cutter. (Connection?)

Cousin Tony (10th, once removed, common descent from Richard Raymond
of Saybrook CT) spent nearly a decade employed at the Newberry
Library, where he also did considerable research into his ancestry.

It was while at Newberry that he built the circumstantial genealogical
case--which I believe is probably true--that the children of Mary
Boleyn, ostensibly William Cary's, were probably actually the daughter
and son of Henry VIII.

I did encourage him to devise a noted kin list (like his "The Mowbray
Connection," Gary Boyd Roberts' original list is also at Newberry),
but, since his move from Chicago, I don't know whether he's had the
time or resources to pursue it. (Aren't you glad you're out of West
Palm Beach, Tony?)

The one I devised, some years ago, for our mutual cousin, the actress
Glenn Close, came to over 1,000 in 17 generations. My "guesstimate"
is that Tony's would rival or even exceed Close's total.

With my new "celebrity" genealogical project, I'll be devising
additional noted kin lists. So, Tony, if you're out there, and can
send me your ancestry, I can get to work combing the collective
writings of Cousin Gary yet again.

Daniel MacGregor

Tony Hoskins

Re: Kerry Royal Descent

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 09 sep 2004 22:01:39

Hello Daniel,

Good to hear from you and Chicago. Yes, my agnate Hoskins (Hoskinson /
Hodgkinson) line arrived in Maryland in the person of Thomas Hodgkinson
(1680-c1743), born in Preston, Lancashire, arrived in St. Mary's County,
MD in 1700, resided from 1704 till his death in Prince George's County,
Maryland. Our name evolved (devolved?) once it passed out of Maryland
and into the back-country of NC, TN, KY after about 1765.

Since you requested it, I will print you a copy of my 16 generation AT
(130 pages) and will send it off for your perusal. Please supply a
mailing address.

Yes, I'm glad to have moved on from Palm Beach. The very rare
California earthquake was an easy trade for yearly hurricanes.

All best,

Tony

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

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