Kerry royal descent
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
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Gjest
Kerry royal descent
In an article in the Wall Street Journal Septemeber 2, Karl Zinsmeister,
editor in chief of The American Enterprise (TAEmag.com) states about John Kerry
"experts describe his bloodlines as 'more royal than any previous
American President' "
Do the experts on this forum agree ?
Robert Bowman
editor in chief of The American Enterprise (TAEmag.com) states about John Kerry
"experts describe his bloodlines as 'more royal than any previous
American President' "
Do the experts on this forum agree ?
Robert Bowman
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Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Kerry royal descent
In article <s13ef385.068@CENTRAL_SVR2>,
hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us ("Tony Hoskins") wrote:
I would rather such comments be kept off the list, please. There are
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.
Nat Taylor
hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us ("Tony Hoskins") wrote:
Allow me to express my fervent hope that GW's
arguable royal-genealogical supremacy will never be challenged by the
reality of a Kerry presidency.
I would rather such comments be kept off the list, please. There are
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.
Nat Taylor
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Tony Hoskins
Re: Kerry royal descent
"experts describe his bloodlines as 'more royal than any previous
American President' "
I agree. It is though to some extent a numbers game, as more
recently-born candidates will have better odds of having more (if any)
royal lines. Kerry descends a quite unusual number of times from Edward
III. Among more recent presidents or candidates, only perhaps FDR can
approach Kerry in this regard.
Among presidents, though, I think George Washington stands out (as well
he should) from all the rest in the realm of "glittering" ancestry -
examined in terms of chronology. Given his reduced chances of numerous
lines (due to his being born 2 1/2 centuries ago) his royal descents are
surprisingly numerous. Allow me to express my fervent hope that GW's
arguable royal-genealogical supremacy will never be challenged by the
reality of a Kerry presidency.
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
American President' "
I agree. It is though to some extent a numbers game, as more
recently-born candidates will have better odds of having more (if any)
royal lines. Kerry descends a quite unusual number of times from Edward
III. Among more recent presidents or candidates, only perhaps FDR can
approach Kerry in this regard.
Among presidents, though, I think George Washington stands out (as well
he should) from all the rest in the realm of "glittering" ancestry -
examined in terms of chronology. Given his reduced chances of numerous
lines (due to his being born 2 1/2 centuries ago) his royal descents are
surprisingly numerous. Allow me to express my fervent hope that GW's
arguable royal-genealogical supremacy will never be challenged by the
reality of a Kerry presidency.
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
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Tony Hoskins
Re: Kerry royal descent
<I would rather such comments be kept off the list, please. There are
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.
Dear Mr. Taylor,
Thank you for calling to my attention something I was remiss in noting:
that GEN-MEDIEVAL invariably limits its discussions to issues within the
narrowest compass of matters medieval-genealogical. I must have confused
this group with another where, not so long ago, I saw some rather
fanciful forays into unrelated territory.
Duly chastened, I remain,
Yours in anticipation of a joyous November,
Anthony Hoskins
Santa Rosa, California
plenty of on-topic subjects on which we may vociferously disagree.
Dear Mr. Taylor,
Thank you for calling to my attention something I was remiss in noting:
that GEN-MEDIEVAL invariably limits its discussions to issues within the
narrowest compass of matters medieval-genealogical. I must have confused
this group with another where, not so long ago, I saw some rather
fanciful forays into unrelated territory.
Duly chastened, I remain,
Yours in anticipation of a joyous November,
Anthony Hoskins
Santa Rosa, California
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Martin E. Hollick
Re: Kerry royal descent
It is a numbers game. However, no is defining what makes one royal or
how one measures royalty in one's ancestry. So someone else can
supply the definition—here's the numbers.
If one goes by the number of ancestors with a royal line (that is
emigrants to North America), then John Kerry has eleven and the most
of anyone. Others are:
FDR 9 lines
George W. Bush 8 lines (6 from his father; two from his mother)
George Washington 3 lines
If one goes by the fewest intervening generations back to a King then:
George Washington is 16th in descent from both Edward III and Edward
I. However, James Buchanan is only 15th in descent from Robert III,
King of Scotland. You can debate this back and forth. Buchanan has
only one royal line—Washington has three. Robert III died in 1406 and
is a more current King than Edward III who died in 1377.
If you give slack for presidents born later for more intervening
generations, one would also have to include Theodore Roosevelt, who is
16th in descent from James I of Scotland (d. 1437) and FDR who is 18th
in descent from James II of Scotland (d. 1460). Theodore has only
three royal lines but is in the same order of descent as George
Washington despite being born in 1858 (G. Washington born in 1732), so
roughly a good four generations later. Likewise, FDR, born in 1882, a
full generation after TR and therefore five generations after
Washington looks like the winner in the closest in descent category.
These numbers come from Gary Boyd Roberts' two books: Ancestors of
the American Presidents and RD600.
how one measures royalty in one's ancestry. So someone else can
supply the definition—here's the numbers.
If one goes by the number of ancestors with a royal line (that is
emigrants to North America), then John Kerry has eleven and the most
of anyone. Others are:
FDR 9 lines
George W. Bush 8 lines (6 from his father; two from his mother)
George Washington 3 lines
If one goes by the fewest intervening generations back to a King then:
George Washington is 16th in descent from both Edward III and Edward
I. However, James Buchanan is only 15th in descent from Robert III,
King of Scotland. You can debate this back and forth. Buchanan has
only one royal line—Washington has three. Robert III died in 1406 and
is a more current King than Edward III who died in 1377.
If you give slack for presidents born later for more intervening
generations, one would also have to include Theodore Roosevelt, who is
16th in descent from James I of Scotland (d. 1437) and FDR who is 18th
in descent from James II of Scotland (d. 1460). Theodore has only
three royal lines but is in the same order of descent as George
Washington despite being born in 1858 (G. Washington born in 1732), so
roughly a good four generations later. Likewise, FDR, born in 1882, a
full generation after TR and therefore five generations after
Washington looks like the winner in the closest in descent category.
These numbers come from Gary Boyd Roberts' two books: Ancestors of
the American Presidents and RD600.
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John Brandon
Re: Kerry Royal Descent
Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?
DSH
Leave it to old DSH to come up with a silly, improbable question ...
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Leo van de Pas
Re: Kerry Royal Descent
Why? When we are talking about 15th cousins and more, why would this not be
possible?
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kerry Royal Descent
possible?
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kerry Royal Descent
Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?
DSH
Leave it to old DSH to come up with a silly, improbable question ...
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John Brandon
Re: Kerry Royal Descent
Why? When we are talking about 15th cousins and more, why would this not be
possible?
It is remotely possible, I guess, but not really *too* likely, at least IMHO.
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Daniel MacGregor
Re: Kerry Royal Descent
"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hzK%c.1183$KQ1.7825@eagle.america.net>...
I asked the same question over a decade ago. The answer, at the time,
was that no one really knows. Tony's Hoskins family, if I recall
correctly, was a late 17th or early 18th century arrival in Maryland.
With Bob Hoskins' Cockney roots, though, I probably have the better
chance of being related to him, as my mother's father, James Alfred
Batson (1888-1942) was born in Shoreditch just a few months before the
first of the Whitechapel Murders, and was the fourth (at least, on the
Batson side) generation of his family to live in London. My
great-grandfather, James Batson, was a fret cutter. (Connection?)
Cousin Tony (10th, once removed, common descent from Richard Raymond
of Saybrook CT) spent nearly a decade employed at the Newberry
Library, where he also did considerable research into his ancestry.
It was while at Newberry that he built the circumstantial genealogical
case--which I believe is probably true--that the children of Mary
Boleyn, ostensibly William Cary's, were probably actually the daughter
and son of Henry VIII.
I did encourage him to devise a noted kin list (like his "The Mowbray
Connection," Gary Boyd Roberts' original list is also at Newberry),
but, since his move from Chicago, I don't know whether he's had the
time or resources to pursue it. (Aren't you glad you're out of West
Palm Beach, Tony?)
The one I devised, some years ago, for our mutual cousin, the actress
Glenn Close, came to over 1,000 in 17 generations. My "guesstimate"
is that Tony's would rival or even exceed Close's total.
With my new "celebrity" genealogical project, I'll be devising
additional noted kin lists. So, Tony, if you're out there, and can
send me your ancestry, I can get to work combing the collective
writings of Cousin Gary yet again.
Daniel MacGregor
Effete, Milquetoast Balderdash...
The man has a perfect right to speak his piece.
Nat posts from the People's Republic of Massachusetts, of course -- and
is probably a staunch Kerry supporter -- as are most of the Harvard
Faculty.
Are you related to Bob Hoskins, the first-rate British actor, Mr.
Hoskins?
I asked the same question over a decade ago. The answer, at the time,
was that no one really knows. Tony's Hoskins family, if I recall
correctly, was a late 17th or early 18th century arrival in Maryland.
With Bob Hoskins' Cockney roots, though, I probably have the better
chance of being related to him, as my mother's father, James Alfred
Batson (1888-1942) was born in Shoreditch just a few months before the
first of the Whitechapel Murders, and was the fourth (at least, on the
Batson side) generation of his family to live in London. My
great-grandfather, James Batson, was a fret cutter. (Connection?)
Cousin Tony (10th, once removed, common descent from Richard Raymond
of Saybrook CT) spent nearly a decade employed at the Newberry
Library, where he also did considerable research into his ancestry.
It was while at Newberry that he built the circumstantial genealogical
case--which I believe is probably true--that the children of Mary
Boleyn, ostensibly William Cary's, were probably actually the daughter
and son of Henry VIII.
I did encourage him to devise a noted kin list (like his "The Mowbray
Connection," Gary Boyd Roberts' original list is also at Newberry),
but, since his move from Chicago, I don't know whether he's had the
time or resources to pursue it. (Aren't you glad you're out of West
Palm Beach, Tony?)
The one I devised, some years ago, for our mutual cousin, the actress
Glenn Close, came to over 1,000 in 17 generations. My "guesstimate"
is that Tony's would rival or even exceed Close's total.
With my new "celebrity" genealogical project, I'll be devising
additional noted kin lists. So, Tony, if you're out there, and can
send me your ancestry, I can get to work combing the collective
writings of Cousin Gary yet again.
Daniel MacGregor
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Tony Hoskins
Re: Kerry Royal Descent
Hello Daniel,
Good to hear from you and Chicago. Yes, my agnate Hoskins (Hoskinson /
Hodgkinson) line arrived in Maryland in the person of Thomas Hodgkinson
(1680-c1743), born in Preston, Lancashire, arrived in St. Mary's County,
MD in 1700, resided from 1704 till his death in Prince George's County,
Maryland. Our name evolved (devolved?) once it passed out of Maryland
and into the back-country of NC, TN, KY after about 1765.
Since you requested it, I will print you a copy of my 16 generation AT
(130 pages) and will send it off for your perusal. Please supply a
mailing address.
Yes, I'm glad to have moved on from Palm Beach. The very rare
California earthquake was an easy trade for yearly hurricanes.
All best,
Tony
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
Good to hear from you and Chicago. Yes, my agnate Hoskins (Hoskinson /
Hodgkinson) line arrived in Maryland in the person of Thomas Hodgkinson
(1680-c1743), born in Preston, Lancashire, arrived in St. Mary's County,
MD in 1700, resided from 1704 till his death in Prince George's County,
Maryland. Our name evolved (devolved?) once it passed out of Maryland
and into the back-country of NC, TN, KY after about 1765.
Since you requested it, I will print you a copy of my 16 generation AT
(130 pages) and will send it off for your perusal. Please supply a
mailing address.
Yes, I'm glad to have moved on from Palm Beach. The very rare
California earthquake was an easy trade for yearly hurricanes.
All best,
Tony
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562