Waiting for Godeheut: St. John, Aguillon and Paynel

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Waiting for Godeheut: St. John, Aguillon and Paynel

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 sep 2004 23:55:30

Thursday, 2 September, 2004


Dear Rosie, Chris, Douglas, Paul, et al.,

I noted 3 additional extracts on the PRO site bearing on prior
discussions re: (A) the family of St. John and a possible (Godeheut) de
Tosny (Paynel/Peverel ?) connection, and (B) the Aguillon family(ies). The
PRO extracts are given below [1], as is Rosie's post of 18 June 2002
summarizing what was then known from DP, Salzman's "The Family of Aguillon"
& c.[2].

Among the interesting connections noted in these extracts, the
involvement of William de St. John in the early grant to Reginald Aguillon
and the witnesses Sir Robert de St. John (son of William) and William
'Painel' in grant of William Aguillon to the Church of the Holy Trinity
(Chichester) would appear to point to more than geographic acquaintance.
Add to this that one of Reginald Aguillon's daughters was named
Godeheut/Godeheuta - as was the wife of William/mother of Sir Robert de
St. John - and we appear to have a close connection between Reginald
Aguillon and William de St. John requiring greater definition.

~ A theory: That Reginald Aguillon's wife was likely a sister of
Godeheut, wife of William de St. John. The appearance of
Godeheut Aguillon amongst Reginald's children would make sense,
as well as the charter connections ca. 1209-1266. William
'Painel' appearing in the last charter of this group may provide
another marker, given the Boxgrove Cartulary citation provided
by Paul Reed calling William de St. John's wife " Godeheld daughter
of N. Paynal' [3].


==================================================================

Reference: Cap/I/17/11
Grant

Creation dates: 1209-1227

By (a) Nicholas de Langeryn to (b) Reginald Aguillun. Capital messuage
outside Northgate, Chichester, with the cultivated land between the ditch
of Depemerse and the city wall.

Consideration: 1 bezant annually on the feast of St. Egidius (1 September).

Witnesses: Mr. Simon de Pe...... dean of Chichester, Nicholas Tocome, Mr.
W. Durand, canons of Chichester, William of St. John, Robert de Viliers,
Roger de Merlay, Richard Toly, Richard de Rure, John de Omage, John
.....illam, Remi[giu]s H..... Robert de.... Robert ...illia, William the
clerk.

Endorsed: Outside Northgate with the cultivated land there.



==============

Reference: Cap/I/17/12
Grant

Creation dates: 1217-1223

Physical characteristics: Seal: 6 cm. diameter, suspended on cords, 2 six
pointed stars in chief, rest missing.

By (a) William de Saint John to (b) the Canons of the church of Chichester,
for the souls of (a), his wife Godehelt, his parents A[dam] de Porth and
Mabel.

[The church of Anne] with the chapels of Chalwardest. and Appelsahe, with
all the lands, woods and pastures.

Witnesses: [Richard, Bishop of Salisbury], Simon, Bishop of Exeter, William,
Earl of Sussex, Henry Hosato, William de Lions, Peter de M[id]delt[on],
Thomas de Argentuem, Robert de Colevill, Richard de Pageham.

Endorsed: [...] 1206/1229

Finding Aids

See S.R.S. Vol. 46 Nos. 371, 762.


================================

Reference: Cap/I/17/22
Grant

Creation dates: 1241-66

By (a) William Aguillun, knight to (b) the Church of the Holy Trinity and
the Dean and Chapter of Chichester, to celebrate (a)'s anniversary after
his death.

Rent of 4 marks with reliefs, wards, escheats, and other appurtenances in
the township (villa) of Offham, which (a) received of the heirs of
Reginald Agullun halfyearly, that is 2 marks at both Easter and
Michaelmas. The 4 marks consists of 20s. from Sir Peter de Gatesden and
Cecilia his wife, 1 mark from Sir Ralph de Sancto Audeno and Godeheuda
his wife, 20s. from Robert Haket and Alice his wife.

Consideration: 50 marks

Witnesses: Sirs Robert of St. John, William Martel, Hugh Sturmi, William
Painel, Ralph de Ralye; Thomas de Argentoem, William de Pageham, knights;
Sir Guido de Apeldram, clerk, Roger de Wike, Robert de Arundel, William
de Traci.

Finding Aids

See S.R.S. Vol. 46 No. 159.

===================================================================


Given that Reginald Aguillon held Reginald Aguillon clearly held rents,
& c. in Offham, Sussex of William Aguillon (see Cap/I/17/22 above) as
evidenced in William's gift of same after Reginald's death, it would seem
likely (not guaranteed) that Reginald was of a younger branch of the
family, holding same of a senior Aguillon branch. I would theorize that
Rosie's conjectural pedigree of the family might then be restructured as
follows:

[ again note: the following is conjectural ]


1. Manasser Aguillon d. by 1179
+ (Miss Marmion?)
2. Robert Aguillon d. by 1236
2. Richard Aguillon d. by 1236
+ Margery Thorney d. by 1221
3. William Aguillon d. aft 1241 (before 3 Oct 1244)
+ Joan fitz Ailwin (heiress of Addington, Surrey)
4. Sir Robert Aguillon, d. 15 Feb 1285/86
+ Joan de Ferrers
5. Isabel Aguillon
+ Hugh, Lord Bardolf
+ Margaret de Savoy, Countess of Devon
2. William Aguillon d. bef 1226
+ Maria de Valle Pironis d.aft 1227
3. Reginald de Aguillon d. aft 1230
4. Maria
+ William Cuvert
4. Cecilia
+ Peter de Gatesden
4. Alice
+ William Russel
4. Godeheut
+ Ralph de St. Owen
3. John de Aguillon d. aft 1236


This might also work well with the suggested marriage of Manasser
Aguillon to a daughter of the Marmion family. A suggestion here: Robert
Marmion of Tamworth, co. Warwicks. (d. ca. 1144) was married before 1130
to Millicent de Rethel. Their daughter Mabel, wife of Hugh de Say, had
lands in Sussex as her marriage portion [4]. Add to this that Rosie has
already shown that Manasser Aguillon held one fee of the the new
enfeoffment in Warwickshire of Robert Marmion in 1166 [see her post below,
citing DD 133], and the weak onomastic support of a son Robert (possibly
eldest son ?) among the issue of Manasser and his wife, and we may be a
bit closer still.

Your thoughts on the above, and confirmatory/contrary documentation,
are welcome as always.

Cheers,

John *



NOTES

[1] PRO: West Sussex Record Office: Diocese of Chichester Capitular
Records
URL http://www.a2a.org.uk

[2] From: Rosie Bevan (rbevan@paradise.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Reynold Aguillon & Eustace de Valle Pironis
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2002-06-18 19:40:24 PST


Dear Paul

The following is taken from K. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants p.133.

Manasser Aiguillon
"Son of William II Aiguillon (d.1159) and Isabel. First occurs with his
parents and siblings in a Tiron charter of c 1121. (Cart. Tiron i., 171). He
held one fee of the the new enfeoffment in Warwickshire of Robert Marmion in
1166. He was given land in Sussex by Henry I, held as two knights' fees of
the earl of Arundel in 1166 at Nutbourne, Up Marden, and Burpham (fees, 688;
Farrer, HKF iii, 72-6). He left 3 sons, William Robert and Richard, at his
death before 1179 (Pipe roll 25 Henry II, 38) See L.F Salzman, 'The family
of Aiguillon', Sussex Arch. Coll. 79 (1938), 45-60.
[Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, IV, p.645, no. I; Pipe Roll 2 Henry II,
61-ss; Red Book of the Exchequer, ed. Hall (1897), pp 200-2, 327.]"


Ten fines from Sussex, [L.F Salzman, An Abstract of Feet of Fines relating
to the County of Sussex, from 2 Richard I to 33 Henry III. (Sussex Record
Society, 1902], dated between 1219 and 1236 reveal three clusters of
Aguillon relationships.

Richard Aguillon was married to Margery de Thorney, and her son and heir
was William Aguillon. Margery was dead by 1228 when William gave the rights
of his inheritance of a third part of 2 knights's fees in Thorncia (Thorney)
and Waleton to his father Richard, acknowledging that after his death the
remainder would go to William and his heirs. In return Richard would give 40
shillings rent per year. From another fine Margery appears to have been
sister and coh. in her issue of Richard de Thorney (Tornie, Torenie,
Torenye). From this it must be deduced that was Margery's son, William, who
sold property in Offham to Reginald Aguillon.

This is the Thorney family group which is inferred from the fines.

1.William de Thorney
+ Mabilia de Thorney
2.Richard de Thorney d s.p.bef 1222
+ Matilda
2. NN de Thorney
+ Grenested
3.Richard de Grenested
2.Margery de Thorney d bef 1222
+ Richard Aguillon
3.William Aguillon
+ Joan
2.Cecilia de Thorney
+ William Gardin
+ Gilbert Marshall


Marie daughter of Eustace de Valle Pironis was living in 1226. Her sons were
Reginald Aguillon and possibly John Aguillon. Reginald appears to have had
four daughters and coheirs and was probably dead by 1236 when a fine was
made by the four sisters and their husbands who made over a carucate of land
in Bedrington to Hugh de Aubeny as a result of an assize of morte
d'ancestor.

1.Reginald Aguillon
2.Maria
+ William Cuvert
2. Cecilia
+ Peter de Gatesden
2. Alice
+ William Russel
2. Godehout
+ Ralph de St Owen

The third family group is found in the 1228 fine when Robert Aguillon, with
John Aguillon acting on his behalf, gave Richard Aguillon half the manor of
Burgham (Burpham) to revert to Robert or his heirs after Richard's death.
In 1235 this same property, or the other half of the manor of Burghum, was
given by William Aguillon to John Aguillon.

Richard, William, John, Reginald and Robert are all linked by Sussex
property transactions between 1219 and 1235, so it is safe to assume they
are all related to one another and descended from Manasser Aiguillon.
At a guess Maria de Valle Pironis was widow of Manasser's son and
heir,William. As she must have been holding the land, which she gave to John
in Up Marden, in dower in 1226, she certainly wasn't the wife of Richard or
Robert, who were both alive in 1228.

The following is a deduction (caveat emptor)

1.Manasser Aguillon d. by 1179
+ (Miss Marmion?)
2.William Aguillon d. bef 1226
+ Maria de Valle Pironis d.aft 1227
3. Reginald de Aguillon d. aft 1230
4. Maria
4. Cecilia
4. Alice
4. Godeheut
3. John de Aguillon d. aft 1236
2.Robert Aguillon d. by 1236
2.Richard Aguillon d. by 1236
+ Margery Thorney d. by 1221
3. William Aguillon d. aft 1241

As to the Valle Pironis name, I have been unable to find another trace of
it.

By the end of the 1200s (CIPM v.4 no. 163 Robert de Tateshale), the three
Aguillon manors in Sussex had passed out of Aguillon hands and this does
suggests the primary male line had daughtered out. Whether Robert Aguillon
above was father of Joan, wife of Imbert Pugeis, I have no idea, but it is
interesting to note that there appears to be an early Marmion connection (as
mentioned in the DD entry). Chris Philips mentioned on 22 Sep 2001 in a
message outlining the IPM of William Marmion c. 1275, that there was a
connection between Joan and the later Robert Aguillon. It may possibly be
through the Marmions that the link can be found.

Cheers

Rosie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Davis" <paulkdavis@earthlink.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Reynold Aguillon & Eustace de Valle Pironis


People,

L. F. Salzman, in an article entitled "The Family of
Aguillon", published in Sussex Archaeological Collections, vol.
LXXIX, 1938, says on page 53 -

"... in 1223 ... heirs of Margery de Thorney sold property in
Offham to Reynold Aguillon. In 1226 Hugh de Nevill ... brought
actions against Reynold Aguillon for the manor of Offham ...
This Reynold was evidently a man of some standing, as from 1220
to 1226 he was bailiff, or steward, of the honor of Arundel; and
in 1225 he was employed by the king to arrest all ships carrying
corn in the ports of Kingston, Wodering, and Horemue. He was
the son of Mary, daughter of Eustace de Valle Pironis, who in
1227, when she was ill, and probably on her death-bed, bestowed
on him the manor of Up Marden, with the exception of certain
specified lands which she had given to John Aguillon (probably
her younger son) to hold of Reynold and his heirs. The names of
his mother and grandfather are so distinctive that one might
well expect to be able to trace them; but I have failed to find
any other mention of the surname de Valle Pironis, and it is
probably of Norman origin. Nor does it seem possible to say who
was the father of Reynold."

I wonder if anyone might know of further information that may
have been developed on these people since the quoted article was
written?

My interest is because Reynold's daughter, Godehuda
(variously spelled), married an early Ralph St.Owen (also
variously spelled; several generations before the Ralph St.Owen
who married an Alice Brewes) and a portion of Reynold's property
was eventually inherited by Thomas St.Owen, whose heir in turn
was eventually his nephew Thomas Dounton.

Thanks.

- PKD [Paul K Davis - paulkdavis@earthlink.net]


[3] Paul C. Reed, FASG, <Re: Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de
St. John>, SGM, 12 August 2003.


[4] CP IX:258 and note, sub _Mortimer_.




* John P. Ravilious

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