Numbering of Peers

[Gjest]

It seems that at least one us is still struggling with the way that
holders of British are numbered.

In order to assist the understanding of this topic, I thought a simple
illustration might be useful - and that other listers might find it
useful too. Apologies to those who already know this area well.

Let's look at the premier English Dukedom: the Dukedom of Norfolk. It
dates from the time of the Plantagenet kings, and remains extant - as
a title, although not as the same peerage.

Here is a list of the holders of the title 'Duke of Norfolk' (a la
Fryde):

1. Margaret Plantagenet, Duchess of Norfolk (for life, cr 1397; d
1399)

2. Thomas Mowbray, 1st Duke of Norfolk; grandson of the foregoing;
created Duke, 1397; deprived of the title and died 1399

3. John Mowbray, 2nd Duke of Norfolk; son of the above; restored to
the title, 1425; died 1432

4. John Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk; son of the above; suceeded 1432;
died 1461

5. John Mowbray, 4th Duke of Norfolk; son of the above; succeeded
1461; died 1476; had no sons and was the last male descendant of the
1st Duke, so the dukedom became extinct on his death.

6. Richard Plantagent, 1st Duke of Norfolk (and 1st Duke of York); son-
in-law of the foregoing; created 1481; presumed to have died in 1483;
no issue, so the title again became extinct on his death.

7. John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk; maternal grandson of #2; created
1483; died 1485; title forfeited

8. Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk; son of the above; restored to
the title, 1514; died 1524

9. Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk; son of the above; succeeded
1524; deprived of the title 1547 but restored 1553; died 1554

10. Thomas Howard, 4th Duke of Norfolk; grandson of the above;
succeeded 1554; deprived of the title and executed 1572

11. Thomas Howard, 5th Duke of Norfolk; great-great grandson and heir
of the foregoing; restored to the title, 1660; died 1677; unmarried

12. Henry Howard, 6th Duke (1677-1684); brother of the above

13. Henry Howard, 7th Duke (1684-1701); son of the above

14. Thomas Howard, 8th Duke (1701-1732); nephew of the above

15. Edward Howard, 9th Duke (1732-1777); brother of the above

16. Charles Howard, 10th Duke (1777-1786); second cousin of the above

17. Charles Howard, 11th Duke (1786-1815); son of the above

18. Bernard Howard, 12th Duke (1815-1842); son of the above

19. Henry Howard, 13th Duke (1842-1856); son of the above

20. Henry Fitzalan-Howard, 14th Duke (1856-1860); son of the above

21. Henry Fitzalan-Howard, 15th Duke (1860-1917); son of the above

22. Bernard Fitzalan-Howard, 16th Duke (1917-1975); son of the above

23. Miles Fitzalan-Howard, 17th Duke (1975-2002), second cousin once
removed to the foregoing

24. Edward Fitzalan-Howard, 18th Duke, succeeded 2002; son of the
above.

Having listed them thus, and enumerated the list, we immediately
notice that the list-number (24) and the ordinal number (18) of the
current Duke do not match up. This is because the Dukedom of Norfolk
that he holds is the third creation, dating from 1483, and the
numbering recommences with each new creation.

His Grace is thus the 18th Duke of Norfolk, of the 3rd (or 1483)
creation.

I have detailed the various family relationships involved to
demonstrate that just because a peer is a descendant or even an heir-
of-line of an earlier peer with the same peerage title, the numbering
does not follow through if the peerage creation is not the same.

Doubting Thomases may look at Who's Who or Burke's Peerage or the
Duke's own parliamentary entry here:

http://www.dodonline.co.uk/engine.asp?l ... y&id=26820

to confirm that, although he is 24th on the list, he is indeed the
18th Duke of Norfolk.

MA-R