Just to muddy the waters a bit..using the National Archives website, I did a
search for Clifford, and came back with 32 listings in the Ancient
Petitions. this one obviously got my attention
Petitioners: Hawise de Botterell (de Clifford), Countess of
Lorraine, widow of Roger de Clifford. Name(s): de Botterell (de Clifford),
Countess of Lorraine, Hawise Addressees: King. Nature of request: The countess,
late the wife of Roger of Clifford, requests the king's grace, stating that
she has been grievously distrained by the sheriffs for various debts of her
husband, but that she is not his heir, and only holds what the king has
granted to her for life, and is unable to render the debts. Nature of endorsement:
Herefordshire and Warwickshire.The petition of the lady Countess who was
the wife of lord Roger de Clifford.For her dower she is to be quit of debts
unless she is executrix. And for the other lands which she had she is to answer
..... People mentioned: Roger de Clifford, late husband of the petitioner.
Date derivation: Dated to 1290 in Rot. Parl., Vol. I, p.53a. The
petitioner's name is given as 'Cuntasse' in the original petition and as 'Coutassa' in
the parliament roll entry given in Rot. Parl., and evidently refers to Hawise
Botterell, Countess of Lorraine, wife of Roger de Clifford (d.), grandfather
of Robert, 1st Lord Clifford. Date 1290 Catalogue reference _SC
8/219/10916_
(http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... /219/10916)
the attached file is the image I downloaded from the NA, but I am not able
to read it clearly to tell what it says. Would anyone care to see if it
mentions Hawise at all? I think whoever wrote up the above entry put two, maybe
three women together as one (Maud, widow of Hugh Gournay, Hawise, widow of John
Boterel, and the mysterious Countess of Loretto) Is the Parliament roll
(Rot. Parl) mentioned above accesible at all?
p.s. this is a copy of my original post..with the attached file it was too
large for normal posting (held for review by Rootsweb) and the post may not
make it to the list. If so, I can email directly the file mentioned above
KEN
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Roger Cliifords wife
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Volucris
Re: Roger Cliifords wife
The way you present the found information indeed muddies the water.
But if you read en write what is written it becomes clear that between
[brackets] you see the assumption of the typist.
Petitioners: [Hawise de Botterell (de Clifford)], Countess [of
Lorraine], widow of Roger de Clifford.
Addressees: King.
Other people mentioned: Roger de Clifford, late husband of the
petitioner.
Nature of request: The countess, late the wife of Roger of Clifford,
requests the king's grace, stating that she has been grievously
distrained by the sheriffs for various debts of her husband, but that
she is not his heir, and only holds what the king has granted to her
for life, and is unable to render the debts.
Endorsement: Herefordshire and Warwickshire.The petition of the lady
Countess who was the wife of lord Roger de Clifford.For her dower she
is to be quit of debts unless she is executrix. And for the other
lands which she had she is to answer ....
So all we see in 1290 is a petition by N. countess, widow of Roger de
Clifford.
Hans Vogels
On 15 feb, 12:01, KRothi...@aol.com wrote:
But if you read en write what is written it becomes clear that between
[brackets] you see the assumption of the typist.
Petitioners: [Hawise de Botterell (de Clifford)], Countess [of
Lorraine], widow of Roger de Clifford.
Addressees: King.
Other people mentioned: Roger de Clifford, late husband of the
petitioner.
Nature of request: The countess, late the wife of Roger of Clifford,
requests the king's grace, stating that she has been grievously
distrained by the sheriffs for various debts of her husband, but that
she is not his heir, and only holds what the king has granted to her
for life, and is unable to render the debts.
Endorsement: Herefordshire and Warwickshire.The petition of the lady
Countess who was the wife of lord Roger de Clifford.For her dower she
is to be quit of debts unless she is executrix. And for the other
lands which she had she is to answer ....
So all we see in 1290 is a petition by N. countess, widow of Roger de
Clifford.
Hans Vogels
On 15 feb, 12:01, KRothi...@aol.com wrote:
Just to muddy the waters a bit..using the National Archives website, I did a
search for Clifford, and came back with 32 listings in the Ancient
Petitions. this one obviously got my attention
Petitioners: Hawise de Botterell (de Clifford), Countess of
Lorraine, widow of Roger de Clifford. Name(s): de Botterell (de Clifford),
Countess of Lorraine, Hawise Addressees: King. Nature of request: The countess,
late the wife of Roger of Clifford, requests the king's grace, stating that
she has been grievously distrained by the sheriffs for various debts of her
husband, but that she is not his heir, and only holds what the king has
granted to her for life, and is unable to render the debts. Nature of endorsement:
Herefordshire and Warwickshire.The petition of the lady Countess who was
the wife of lord Roger de Clifford.For her dower she is to be quit of debts
unless she is executrix. And for the other lands which she had she is to answer
.... People mentioned: Roger de Clifford, late husband of the petitioner.
Date derivation: Dated to 1290 in Rot. Parl., Vol. I, p.53a. The
petitioner's name is given as 'Cuntasse' in the original petition and as 'Coutassa' in
the parliament roll entry given in Rot. Parl., and evidently refers to Hawise
Botterell, Countess of Lorraine, wife of Roger de Clifford (d.), grandfather
of Robert, 1st Lord Clifford. Date 1290 Catalogue reference _SC
8/219/10916_
(http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... asp?Requ...)
the attached file is the image I downloaded from the NA, but I am not able
to read it clearly to tell what it says. Would anyone care to see if it
mentions Hawise at all? I think whoever wrote up the above entry put two, maybe
three women together as one (Maud, widow of Hugh Gournay, Hawise, widow of John
Boterel, and the mysterious Countess of Loretto) Is the Parliament roll
(Rot. Parl) mentioned above accesible at all?
p.s. this is a copy of my original post..with the attached file it was too
large for normal posting (held for review by Rootsweb) and the post may not
make it to the list. If so, I can email directly the file mentioned above
KEN
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
-
wjhonson
Re: Roger Cliifords wife
On Feb 15, 1:49 pm, Volucris <voluc...@kpnplanet.nl> wrote:
Exactly.
So all we see in 1290 is a petition by N. countess, widow of Roger de
Clifford.
Exactly.