Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of Emper

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of Emper

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 14 feb 2008 05:22:40

Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.

There is a place for most things. But on Gen-med there should be no place
for cross-posting as has been explained over and over again. Free Speech has
nothing to do with it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr>
Newsgroups: alt.history.british, alt.talk.royalty,
soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241),Wife of Emperor
Frederick II


letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 10:08 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
Usenet is a different ball-game. It spans all countries which entertain
it. But there are different newsgroups for different subjects. It is not
an expression of Free Speech to deliberately make new threads in
multiple newsgroups through simultaneous (or cross-) posting. It is an
expression of egotism. Neither is it an expression of Free Speech to
plagiarise what others have written and post it to various newsgroups in
its entirety. That is not one's own Free Speech, but someone else's.

Listen, Miss KnowItAll, my free speech and anybody else's free speech
is our free speech, something you will never understand not being
American

Oh, but I do understand it, being British, and having studied The
Enlightenment.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1276 - Release Date: 2/13/2008
9:41 AM


letiTiAflufF@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av letiTiAflufF@gmail.com » 14 feb 2008 05:49:04

On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.

You think that way, Pope Leo?

Well, well, well

merci, merci, merci

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 06:10:17

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.

You think that way, Pope Leo?

He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.

Volucris

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Volucris » 14 feb 2008 08:49:04

Do you have something against Popes, or are you just jealous? We had a
Dutch Pope. Can't recall an Amercan Pope though.

Hans

[snip]
You think that way, Pope Leo?
[nip, nip, nip, nip, nip, yip, yip, yip, yip]
~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

~~~ So? Who isn't?

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av letiTiAflufF@gmail.com » 14 feb 2008 13:44:02

On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.

You think that way, Pope Leo?

He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.

LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?
Let Saint Pope Leo exercise his Free Speech in Harlem and find his
head on the sidewalk
the fact Leo used this example and the Texas joke shows he is a poor
example of inhumanity
And man's inhumanity to man, to quote the man is not the same as free
speech
wake up, LittleMissKnowItAll, you and taffy duck are smack in the
middle of
nowhere land with your egos stuck where the sun never shines, ever

persiflage, persiflage, persiflage

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval

John Foster

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av John Foster » 14 feb 2008 14:29:09

Don't forget John Paul Jones.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Volucris" <volucris@kpnplanet.nl>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of Emperor
Frederick II


Do you have something against Popes, or are you just jealous? We had a
Dutch Pope. Can't recall an Amercan Pope though.

Hans

[snip]
You think that way, Pope Leo?
[nip, nip, nip, nip, nip, yip, yip, yip, yip]
~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

~~~ So? Who isn't?

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 14:37:46

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.
You think that way, Pope Leo?
He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.

LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?

WHAT?

1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.


Let Saint Pope Leo exercise his Free Speech in Harlem and find his
head on the sidewalk
the fact Leo used this example and the Texas joke shows he is a poor
example of inhumanity
And man's inhumanity to man, to quote the man is not the same as free
speech
wake up, LittleMissKnowItAll, you and taffy duck are smack in the
middle of
nowhere land with your egos stuck where the sun never shines, ever

And you are completely off your trolley. I presume you are in an
institution?

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av letiTiAflufF@gmail.com » 14 feb 2008 16:24:03

On Feb 14, 8:37 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.
You think that way, Pope Leo?
He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.

LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?

WHAT?

1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.

Read the following, LittleMissKnowItAll

Alençon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commune of Alençon
Location
Coordinates
48° 25' 50" N 00° 05' 35" E
Administration


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alençon

History
It was probably during the 4th century, while the area was being
Christianised, that the city of Alençon was founded. The name is first
seen in a document dated in the 7th century. During the 10th century,
Alençon was a buffer state between Normandy and the Maine regions. In
1047, William Duke of Normandy, later known as William the Conqueror
and king of England, laid siege to the town. The citizens insulted
William by hanging animal skins from the walls, in reference to his
ancestry as the illegitimate son of Duke Robert and a tanner's
daughter. On capturing the town, William had the citizens' hands cut
off in revenge.

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 16:45:41

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:37 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.
You think that way, Pope Leo?
He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.
LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?
WHAT?

1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.

Read the following, LittleMissKnowItAll

Alençon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commune of Alençon
Location
Coordinates
48° 25' 50" N 00° 05' 35" E
Administration


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alençon

History
It was probably during the 4th century, while the area was being
Christianised, that the city of Alençon was founded. The name is first
seen in a document dated in the 7th century. During the 10th century,
Alençon was a buffer state between Normandy and the Maine regions. In
1047, William Duke of Normandy, later known as William the Conqueror
and king of England, laid siege to the town. The citizens insulted
William by hanging animal skins from the walls, in reference to his
ancestry as the illegitimate son of Duke Robert and a tanner's
daughter. On capturing the town, William had the citizens' hands cut
off in revenge.

Alencon is in Britain, is it?

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av letiTiAflufF@gmail.com » 14 feb 2008 16:49:02

On Feb 14, 10:22 am, "letiTiAfl...@gmail.com" <letiTiAfl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:37 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:



letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.
You think that way, Pope Leo?
He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.

LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?

WHAT?

1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.

Read the following, LittleMissKnowItAll

Alençon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commune of Alençon
Location
Coordinates
48° 25' 50" N 00° 05' 35" E
Administration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alençon

History
It was probably during the 4th century, while the area was being
Christianised, that the city of Alençon was founded. The name is first
seen in a document dated in the 7th century. During the 10th century,
Alençon was a buffer state between Normandy and the Maine regions. In
1047, William Duke of Normandy, later known as William the Conqueror
and king of England, laid siege to the town. The citizens insulted
William by hanging animal skins from the walls, in reference to his
ancestry as the illegitimate son of Duke Robert and a tanner's
daughter. On capturing the town, William had the citizens' hands cut
off in revenge.


FOLLOW UP for LittleMissKnowItAll

who claims (2) IT NEVER HAPPENED

EAT SUM CROW, LittleMissKnowItAll

http://www.bosham.org/bosham-william-conqueror.htm

A war had broken out between King Henry and Geoffrey Martel, Count of
Anjou, and William marched with a powerful force to the aid of his
suzeraine. So daring, we are told, was his conduct, and so brilliant
the feats of arms which distinguished him in this expedition, though
they are not particularized, that he was highly lauded by the king,
who nevertheless cautioned him against the extreme rashness with which
he exposed his valuable life.

The Count of Anjou revenged himself by marching into Normandy and
occupying and garrisoning Alencon, one of the Duke's border
fortresses. William in turn entered the state of Maine, of which
Geoffrey was now virtually the sovereign, in the capacity of guardian
of its Count Hugh, who was a minor, and besieged Domfront. But treason
still lurked about the Norman prince. Intelligence was conveyed to the
Angevine commander in Domfront, by some Norman noble unnamed, that
William had left the main body of his army on a foraging expedition,
attended by only fifty men-at-arms, and the direction he had taken.
Three hundred horse and seven hundred foot were immediately despatched
to intercept and capture him. There can be no doubt that the numbers
are greatly exaggerated, but it may be perfectly true that William,
with his fifty followers, put to flight a formidable force, pursuing
them to the very gates of the town, and taking one prisoner with his
own hand.

William of Poitiers, the contemporary biographer and enthusiastic
panegyrist of "the Conqueror," who had thus early begun to deserve
that title, tells also a story connected with this siege of Domfront,
which is probable enough, and too characteristic of the manners of the
age to be omitted, were it only "ben trovato."

Tidings having been brought to the Duke that the Count of Anjou was on
his march with a considerable force to raise the siege, he despatched
Roger de Montgomeri and William, son of that Osbern the Dapifer who
was murdered at Vaudreuil, with, according to Wace's version, a third
knight named William, the son of Thierry, to meet Geoffrey and demand
an explanation of his conduct. The Count informed them that it was his
intention to be before Domfront the next morning, where he would meet
the Duke, and, that William might recognize him, he would be on a
white horse and bear a gilded shield. The envoys answered that he need
not give himself the trouble to travel so far. William would meet him
on the road in the morning, armed and mounted in such wise as they
described to him. William kept his word; but the Count appears to have
thought better of it, and had retreated before daybreak, to the great
disappointment of the Normans.

It is singular that this story should have been quoted some years ago
to prove that heraldic insignia were known and borne in the eleventh
century, when the evidence it affords us is exactly to the contrary.
Had such personal distinctions existed at that period,"the Normans,"
as Mr. Freeman has justly observed, "could hardly have needed to be
told what kind of shield Geoffrey would carry."

Leaving a sufficient force before Domfront, William marched suddenly
by night upo)n Alencon, his own disloyal town, which had opened its
gates to his enemy. The hostile garrison here insulted the Duke by
hanging out skins or furs, and shouting "La Pel! La Pel al
parmentier!" which, as I have already observed, was twitting him with
his maternal descent from a tailor.

Stung to the quick, the grandson of the tailor swore "by the splendour
of God," -- his habitual oath, -- that the limbs of men who had so
mocked him should be lopped like the branches of a tree; and he kept
his cruel oath. He took the town by assault, and two-and-thirty of the
defenders had their hands and feet cut off, and cast over the castle
walls, as a terrible warning to those who still held the castle. It
was not in vain. The garrison surrendered, on condition that their
lives and limbs should be spared. Hurrying back to Domfront, whither
the tidings of the fate of Alencon had preceded him, he received the
almost immediate submission of that fortress, the garrison only
stipulating for the retention of their weapons as well as their limbs.
Domfront became a border fortress of Normandy, in addition to Alencon
on the southern frontier of the duchy; and William, after marching
triumphantly through Maine, and fortifying the Castle of Ambrières,
returned, covered with laurels, to Rouen.

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbingAncestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 16:58:03

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 10:22 am, "letiTiAfl...@gmail.com" <letiTiAfl...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:37 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:



letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.
You think that way, Pope Leo?
He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.
LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?
WHAT?
1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.
Read the following, LittleMissKnowItAll

Alençon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commune of Alençon
Location
Coordinates
48° 25' 50" N 00° 05' 35" E
Administration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alençon

History
It was probably during the 4th century, while the area was being
Christianised, that the city of Alençon was founded. The name is first
seen in a document dated in the 7th century. During the 10th century,
Alençon was a buffer state between Normandy and the Maine regions. In
1047, William Duke of Normandy, later known as William the Conqueror
and king of England, laid siege to the town. The citizens insulted
William by hanging animal skins from the walls, in reference to his
ancestry as the illegitimate son of Duke Robert and a tanner's
daughter. On capturing the town, William had the citizens' hands cut
off in revenge.


FOLLOW UP for LittleMissKnowItAll

who claims (2) IT NEVER HAPPENED

EAT SUM CROW, LittleMissKnowItAll

http://www.bosham.org/bosham-william-conqueror.htm

A war had broken out between King Henry and Geoffrey Martel, Count of
Anjou, and William marched with a powerful force to the aid of his
suzeraine. So daring, we are told, was his conduct, and so brilliant
the feats of arms which distinguished him in this expedition, though
they are not particularized, that he was highly lauded by the king,
who nevertheless cautioned him against the extreme rashness with which
he exposed his valuable life.

The Count of Anjou revenged himself by marching into Normandy and
occupying and garrisoning Alencon, one of the Duke's border
fortresses. William in turn entered the state of Maine, of which
Geoffrey was now virtually the sovereign, in the capacity of guardian
of its Count Hugh, who was a minor, and besieged Domfront. But treason
still lurked about the Norman prince. Intelligence was conveyed to the
Angevine commander in Domfront, by some Norman noble unnamed, that
William had left the main body of his army on a foraging expedition,
attended by only fifty men-at-arms, and the direction he had taken.
Three hundred horse and seven hundred foot were immediately despatched
to intercept and capture him. There can be no doubt that the numbers
are greatly exaggerated, but it may be perfectly true that William,
with his fifty followers, put to flight a formidable force, pursuing
them to the very gates of the town, and taking one prisoner with his
own hand.

William of Poitiers, the contemporary biographer and enthusiastic
panegyrist of "the Conqueror," who had thus early begun to deserve
that title, tells also a story connected with this siege of Domfront,
which is probable enough, and too characteristic of the manners of the
age to be omitted, were it only "ben trovato."

Tidings having been brought to the Duke that the Count of Anjou was on
his march with a considerable force to raise the siege, he despatched
Roger de Montgomeri and William, son of that Osbern the Dapifer who
was murdered at Vaudreuil, with, according to Wace's version, a third
knight named William, the son of Thierry, to meet Geoffrey and demand
an explanation of his conduct. The Count informed them that it was his
intention to be before Domfront the next morning, where he would meet
the Duke, and, that William might recognize him, he would be on a
white horse and bear a gilded shield. The envoys answered that he need
not give himself the trouble to travel so far. William would meet him
on the road in the morning, armed and mounted in such wise as they
described to him. William kept his word; but the Count appears to have
thought better of it, and had retreated before daybreak, to the great
disappointment of the Normans.

It is singular that this story should have been quoted some years ago
to prove that heraldic insignia were known and borne in the eleventh
century, when the evidence it affords us is exactly to the contrary.
Had such personal distinctions existed at that period,"the Normans,"
as Mr. Freeman has justly observed, "could hardly have needed to be
told what kind of shield Geoffrey would carry."

Leaving a sufficient force before Domfront, William marched suddenly
by night upo)n Alencon, his own disloyal town, which had opened its
gates to his enemy. The hostile garrison here insulted the Duke by
hanging out skins or furs, and shouting "La Pel! La Pel al
parmentier!" which, as I have already observed, was twitting him with
his maternal descent from a tailor.

Stung to the quick, the grandson of the tailor swore "by the splendour
of God," -- his habitual oath, -- that the limbs of men who had so
mocked him should be lopped like the branches of a tree; and he kept
his cruel oath. He took the town by assault, and two-and-thirty of the
defenders had their hands and feet cut off, and cast over the castle
walls, as a terrible warning to those who still held the castle. It
was not in vain. The garrison surrendered, on condition that their
lives and limbs should be spared. Hurrying back to Domfront, whither
the tidings of the fate of Alencon had preceded him, he received the
almost immediate submission of that fortress, the garrison only
stipulating for the retention of their weapons as well as their limbs.
Domfront became a border fortress of Normandy, in addition to Alencon
on the southern frontier of the duchy; and William, after marching
triumphantly through Maine, and fortifying the Castle of Ambrières,
returned, covered with laurels, to Rouen.

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbingAncestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval


Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?

norenxaq

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av norenxaq » 14 feb 2008 17:01:59

Renia wrote:

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:


On Feb 14, 10:22 am, "letiTiAfl...@gmail.com" <letiTiAfl...@gmail.com
wrote:


On Feb 14, 8:37 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:





letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Feb 14, 12:10 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:


letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Free Speech? Go in to Harlem and call out "Black Bastards" and see how free
you are.


You think that way, Pope Leo?


He has a point. Whether you meant it or not, would you dare shout such a
thing there? If not, you don't have free speech.


LittleMissKnowItAll got littler, in my estimation with this snarly
tidbit of stupidity
Free Speech has limits, as you well know, and I cited an example from
Brit history
of the man who married a tanner's daughter and became a king and went
into a
village where they displayed skins and he cut off the left hand and
right foot
of every member of the village, and now you would call that free
speech?


WHAT?
1. When did you cite this?
2. It never happened.


Read the following, LittleMissKnowItAll

Alençon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commune of Alençon
Location
Coordinates
48° 25' 50" N 00° 05' 35" E
Administration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alençon

History
It was probably during the 4th century, while the area was being
Christianised, that the city of Alençon was founded. The name is first
seen in a document dated in the 7th century. During the 10th century,
Alençon was a buffer state between Normandy and the Maine regions. In
1047, William Duke of Normandy, later known as William the Conqueror
and king of England, laid siege to the town. The citizens insulted
William by hanging animal skins from the walls, in reference to his
ancestry as the illegitimate son of Duke Robert and a tanner's
daughter. On capturing the town, William had the citizens' hands cut
off in revenge.


FOLLOW UP for LittleMissKnowItAll

who claims (2) IT NEVER HAPPENED

EAT SUM CROW, LittleMissKnowItAll

http://www.bosham.org/bosham-william-conqueror.htm

A war had broken out between King Henry and Geoffrey Martel, Count of
Anjou, and William marched with a powerful force to the aid of his
suzeraine. So daring, we are told, was his conduct, and so brilliant
the feats of arms which distinguished him in this expedition, though
they are not particularized, that he was highly lauded by the king,
who nevertheless cautioned him against the extreme rashness with which
he exposed his valuable life.

The Count of Anjou revenged himself by marching into Normandy and
occupying and garrisoning Alencon, one of the Duke's border
fortresses. William in turn entered the state of Maine, of which
Geoffrey was now virtually the sovereign, in the capacity of guardian
of its Count Hugh, who was a minor, and besieged Domfront. But treason
still lurked about the Norman prince. Intelligence was conveyed to the
Angevine commander in Domfront, by some Norman noble unnamed, that
William had left the main body of his army on a foraging expedition,
attended by only fifty men-at-arms, and the direction he had taken.
Three hundred horse and seven hundred foot were immediately despatched
to intercept and capture him. There can be no doubt that the numbers
are greatly exaggerated, but it may be perfectly true that William,
with his fifty followers, put to flight a formidable force, pursuing
them to the very gates of the town, and taking one prisoner with his
own hand.

William of Poitiers, the contemporary biographer and enthusiastic
panegyrist of "the Conqueror," who had thus early begun to deserve
that title, tells also a story connected with this siege of Domfront,
which is probable enough, and too characteristic of the manners of the
age to be omitted, were it only "ben trovato."

Tidings having been brought to the Duke that the Count of Anjou was on
his march with a considerable force to raise the siege, he despatched
Roger de Montgomeri and William, son of that Osbern the Dapifer who
was murdered at Vaudreuil, with, according to Wace's version, a third
knight named William, the son of Thierry, to meet Geoffrey and demand
an explanation of his conduct. The Count informed them that it was his
intention to be before Domfront the next morning, where he would meet
the Duke, and, that William might recognize him, he would be on a
white horse and bear a gilded shield. The envoys answered that he need
not give himself the trouble to travel so far. William would meet him
on the road in the morning, armed and mounted in such wise as they
described to him. William kept his word; but the Count appears to have
thought better of it, and had retreated before daybreak, to the great
disappointment of the Normans.

It is singular that this story should have been quoted some years ago
to prove that heraldic insignia were known and borne in the eleventh
century, when the evidence it affords us is exactly to the contrary.
Had such personal distinctions existed at that period,"the Normans,"
as Mr. Freeman has justly observed, "could hardly have needed to be
told what kind of shield Geoffrey would carry."

Leaving a sufficient force before Domfront, William marched suddenly
by night upo)n Alencon, his own disloyal town, which had opened its
gates to his enemy. The hostile garrison here insulted the Duke by
hanging out skins or furs, and shouting "La Pel! La Pel al
parmentier!" which, as I have already observed, was twitting him with
his maternal descent from a tailor.

Stung to the quick, the grandson of the tailor swore "by the splendour
of God," -- his habitual oath, -- that the limbs of men who had so
mocked him should be lopped like the branches of a tree; and he kept
his cruel oath. He took the town by assault, and two-and-thirty of the
defenders had their hands and feet cut off, and cast over the castle
walls, as a terrible warning to those who still held the castle. It
was not in vain. The garrison surrendered, on condition that their
lives and limbs should be spared. Hurrying back to Domfront, whither
the tidings of the fate of Alencon had preceded him, he received the
almost immediate submission of that fortress, the garrison only
stipulating for the retention of their weapons as well as their limbs.
Domfront became a border fortress of Normandy, in addition to Alencon
on the southern frontier of the duchy; and William, after marching
triumphantly through Maine, and fortifying the Castle of Ambrières,
returned, covered with laurels, to Rouen.

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbingAncestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval




Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?


it's in France

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 17:08:03

norenxaq wrote:
Renia wrote:

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:




Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?


it's in France

I know. But the fluffy troll doesn't seem to know that.

norenxaq

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av norenxaq » 14 feb 2008 17:18:53

I am descended from Robert I the Bruce
Duncan I The Gracious
Kings of Scotland
William I The Conqueror King of England
and
Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
so how's that for a fluffy troll?



prove it

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av letiTiAflufF@gmail.com » 14 feb 2008 17:19:03

On Feb 14, 11:08 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
norenxaq wrote:
Renia wrote:

letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?

it's in France

I know. But the fluffy troll doesn't seem to know that.

LittleMissKnowItAll is dense as well as ignorant about English history
you said IT NEVER HAPPENED, fluffernutter!

eat sum crow
MissKnowItAll

I am descended from Robert I the Bruce
Duncan I The Gracious
Kings of Scotland
William I The Conqueror King of England
and
Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
so how's that for a fluffy troll?

you see, for an American, I know Pope Leo van de page
is a descendant of the van der Sloots of NL
and I know more English history than you can put in your
thimblesizedbrainiac

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 17:22:57

letiTiAflufF@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:08 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
norenxaq wrote:
Renia wrote:
letiTiAfl...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?
it's in France
I know. But the fluffy troll doesn't seem to know that.

LittleMissKnowItAll is dense as well as ignorant about English history
you said IT NEVER HAPPENED, fluffernutter!

You said it was part of British history. It isn't.

It didn't happen in England. I don't know whether it happened in Normandy.


eat sum crow
MissKnowItAll

I am descended from Robert I the Bruce
Duncan I The Gracious
Kings of Scotland
William I The Conqueror King of England
and
Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
so how's that for a fluffy troll?

Big deal.
you see, for an American, I know Pope Leo van de page
is a descendant of the van der Sloots of NL
and I know more English history than you can put in your
thimblesizedbrainiac

Doubt it.

Renia

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Renia » 14 feb 2008 17:31:19

norenxaq wrote:

I am descended from Robert I the Bruce
Duncan I The Gracious
Kings of Scotland
William I The Conqueror King of England
and
Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
so how's that for a fluffy troll?



prove it

He can't. He's stuck on the Pecks of Suffolk and can't prove the
connection to the Middletons of Yorkshire.

Denis Beauregard

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av Denis Beauregard » 14 feb 2008 17:38:12

Le Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:01:59 -0800, norenxaq <norenxaq@san.rr.com>
écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:

Yes, yes, yes. But where in Britain is Alencon?


it's in France

Alençon is in Normandy, not in Britain anyway.
More exactly in the pays (pagus) of Campagnes, in Lower Normandy.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1770 (Version 2008)
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginnings to 1770 (2008 Release)

norenxaq

Re: Fw: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of E

Legg inn av norenxaq » 14 feb 2008 18:03:01

Renia wrote:

norenxaq wrote:


I am descended from Robert I the Bruce
Duncan I The Gracious
Kings of Scotland
William I The Conqueror King of England
and
Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
so how's that for a fluffy troll?





prove it



He can't. He's stuck on the Pecks of Suffolk and can't prove the
connection to the Middletons of Yorkshire.


why am I NOT surprised????

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»