Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of Emperor F

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M.Sjostrom

Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241), Wife of Emperor F

Legg inn av M.Sjostrom » 23 jan 2008 08:32:03

"Manfred was conceived and, indeed, born to Bianca
Lancia when she was mistress of the Emperor while his
third Empress, Isabel of England, was still alive."

I have been led to believe, by good reasons, that
Manfred was born in c1232.

Fairly valid historical sources assign the timing of
the marriage between emperor Frederick II and Isabella
of England to July 1235. Even their betrothal did not
take place before February 1235.

Like I indicated somewhat earlier in this very thread,
I do not believe Frederick was married to anyone
living lady at the time of conception and birth of
Manfred.

Thus far, it has been purely some waffling (should I
say 'by known wafflers') without too much factual
basis who have claimed Manfred was an adulterous
child.

Therefore I would like to hear a somewhat better
elaboration than thus far seen why the fact that
Isabella was indeed living (although not in any way
married yet with Freddy, nor in any way an Empress
yet), would cause such an effect that Manfred would be
adulterously conceived.




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Peter Stewart

Re: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241),Wife of Empero

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 23 jan 2008 11:04:12

"M.Sjostrom" <qsj5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.2439.1201073430.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
"Manfred was conceived and, indeed, born to Bianca
Lancia when she was mistress of the Emperor while his
third Empress, Isabel of England, was still alive."

I have been led to believe, by good reasons, that
Manfred was born in c1232.

This is correct. Frederick was not married to anyone else at that time - his
second wife had died in May 1228 and he was not married to his third wife
until July 1235. However, he notoriously kept a virtual harem of concubines
and it was not considered acceptable that one of these should become his
wife, much less in such dubious circumstances as a deathbed union.

If you can read Italian, there is a useful discussion of Bianca, including
her family origin, wedding and death, by Natale Ferro, Chi fu Bianca Lancia
di Agliano, in _Bianca Lancia d'Agliano, fra il Piemonte e il regno di
Sicilia: Atti del convegno (Asti-Agliano, 28-29 aprile 1990)_, edited by
Renato Bordone, Ricerche di storia locale 4 (Alessandria, 1992) pp 55-80.

The two alternatives offered for her parentage are:

1. A niece of Manfred II Lancia (Frederick's "affinis", quoted earlier in
the thread from the diplomata edited by Huillard-Bréholles) as daughter of
his sister (maybe named Bianca), by a son (name unknown) of Guglielmo di
Moncucco & Belda di Agliano.

2. A niece of Manfred II Lancia as daughter of his brother Bonifacio di
Agliano, possibly from a marriage to a lady of the Maletta family.

Peter Stewart

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