Spelling Names

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Keith nuttle

Spelling Names

Legg inn av Keith nuttle » 16 jan 2008 03:55:10

Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the
same sound.


--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699

Bruce Remick

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Bruce Remick » 16 jan 2008 04:43:50

"Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the same
sound.


Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to match
any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?

Bruce

Gene Y.

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Gene Y. » 16 jan 2008 13:29:22

Bruce Remick wrote:
"Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the same
sound.


Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to match
any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?

Bruce



Go to:

http://home.triad.rr.com/combsfamily/sslmain.html

and download:

"Surname Suggestion List"

--
Gene Y.
n2kvs
Researching Young, Zies, Harer & Cox with
Legacy Family Tree
http://h1.ripway.com/egptech/

Gjest

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 jan 2008 17:35:10

What I have found is the biggest stumbling block aren't the "Soundex"
kind of spelling variations that are phonetic - but where the record
keeper has misheard the name, or misinterpreted what they heard
because of accents - or their handwriting was the pits and the name
has been indexed or transcribed as something off the wall - i.e. Laslo
becomes Taris.

Illiteracy in prior generations was not uncommon and that means the
person giving the information is completely at the mercy of the
registrar or census taker.

One arm of my family in Scotland were illiterate until the the later
19th century so we have members of a single household from the 1830's
who ended up with a wide variation in surnames - which subsequently
"stuck" - leading to lively arguments among descendents about whose
spelling is the "right" one i.e. Brebner, Brember, Brymner, Bremner
etc.

M.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Sherlock Holmes » 16 jan 2008 19:00:44

Mary_Gordon@tvo.org wrote:
What I have found is the biggest stumbling block aren't the "Soundex"
kind of spelling variations that are phonetic - but where the record
keeper has misheard the name, or misinterpreted what they heard
because of accents - or their handwriting was the pits and the name
has been indexed or transcribed as something off the wall - i.e. Laslo
becomes Taris.

Illiteracy in prior generations was not uncommon and that means the
person giving the information is completely at the mercy of the
registrar or census taker.

One arm of my family in Scotland were illiterate until the the later
19th century so we have members of a single household from the 1830's
who ended up with a wide variation in surnames - which subsequently
"stuck" - leading to lively arguments among descendents about whose
spelling is the "right" one i.e. Brebner, Brember, Brymner, Bremner
etc.

M.
Hi,

What Mary forgot to add was that the Clerk or Parish Minister of the day
was the Authority and you did not ague with Authority if you wanted to
live a normal life and keep your friends.
Also add into this is the case of Families adopting another surname in
my case I know of two GRIMASON families who adopted the GRIMSHAW surname
and were known to be using the surname as early as in 1865 and have
officially been known as GRIMSHAW's since early as 1874.

David

Keith nuttle

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Keith nuttle » 17 jan 2008 00:47:43

Bruce Remick wrote:
"Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the same
sound.


Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to match
any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?

Bruce


The name that I have most trouble with is Hindenlang. It is probably

originated in the area where the present German France and Switzerland
come together. The name came to the Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana area
in the USA in the early 1800's, and has been found in many creative
spelling when it has been found.

Would appreciate any addition ideas on how it maybe found in the
genealogical records.



--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699

singhals

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av singhals » 17 jan 2008 21:36:23

Keith nuttle wrote:

Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the
same sound.



Yeah, but it runs on an IBM30/60 (or, wait!, was it a 30/90?)

Anyway, I'm not sure you _really_ want that (g). As I
recall the program produced about an inch thick pile of
print-out on the old green-and-white wide computer paper.
About half of it was pure gibberish.

You can get a flavor by visiting the surname thesaurus at
http://www.imagepartners.co.uk/

It will give you several flavors of possibilities.

BUT:
1. some folks made their H look more like an A than their
A did.

2. what the clerk who wrote it down HEARD is a little more
important than what the applicant SAID -- my grandson has a
toy which says the French for Red Blue and Yellow, except
that what it says for Red sounds more like Orange than Red
to me.

[It's a pretty simple little program to write, I'd imagine
some of the gurus over on soc.genealogy.computing could whip
one out in an hour or two. BUT as I said, about half the
output will be gibberish, and sorting out the gibberish from
the potentially useable (or coding in enough fail-safes to
prevent that) took a lot longer than making up the list by
hand.]

Cheryl

Allen Prunty

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Allen Prunty » 18 jan 2008 16:07:22

Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

Wouldn't it be easier to condense it down to a soundex then do a soundex
search? That would get you everything that "sounds like" the name.

Allen

Bruce Remick

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Bruce Remick » 18 jan 2008 18:19:23

"Allen Prunty" <nospam@alprunty.com> wrote in message
news:uvSdnaiw3pM0XQ3anZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@insightbb.com...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

Wouldn't it be easier to condense it down to a soundex then do a soundex
search? That would get you everything that "sounds like" the name.

Allen

Unfortunately, Soundex searches include many results that don't sound at all
like the name being searched. A Soundex search on REMICK often will bring
many results like Ranch, Rines, Ring, Ryan, etc., none of which sound at all
like REMICK. Further, any automated program would probably overlook
misspellings and misinterpretations in transcribing handwritten names on
documents.

Bruce

Henry

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Henry » 18 jan 2008 21:58:39

Keith nuttle schreef:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most
common dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade
to d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the
same sound.


Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to
match any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?

Bruce

The name that I have most trouble with is Hindenlang. It is probably
originated in the area where the present German France and Switzerland
come together. The name came to the Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana area
in the USA in the early 1800's, and has been found in many creative
spelling when it has been found.

Would appreciate any addition ideas on how it maybe found in the
genealogical records.



Maybe you could ask this question in soc.genealogy.german



Henry

Henry Brownlee

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Henry Brownlee » 19 jan 2008 03:12:57

"Henry" <h.hermsen@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:47911305$0$24412$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl...
| Keith nuttle schreef:
| > Bruce Remick wrote:
| >> "Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
| >> news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
| >>> Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
| >>> spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?
| >>>
| >>> It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most
| >>> common dialects.
| >>>
| >>> It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade
| >>> to d's.
| >>>
| >>> Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the
| >>> same sound.
| >>
| >>
| >> Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to
| >> match any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?
| >>
| >> Bruce
| >>
| > The name that I have most trouble with is Hindenlang. It is probably
| > originated in the area where the present German France and Switzerland
| > come together. The name came to the Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana area
| > in the USA in the early 1800's, and has been found in many creative
| > spelling when it has been found.
| >
| > Would appreciate any addition ideas on how it maybe found in the
| > genealogical records.
| >
| >
| >
| Maybe you could ask this question in soc.genealogy.german
|
|
| Henry

Tagging on to this one for sake of convenience:

In the New Orleans, Louisiana, area, the name is HINDELANG.

(The other) Henry

Allen Prunty

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Allen Prunty » 19 jan 2008 05:25:01

To: Bruce Remick
Re: Re: Spelling Names
By: Bruce Remick to alt.genealogy on Fri Jan 18 2008 12:19 pm

Unfortunately, Soundex searches include many results that don't sound at
all like the name being searched. A Soundex search on REMICK often will
bring many results like Ranch, Rines, Ring, Ryan, etc., none of which sound
at all like REMICK. Further, any automated program would probably overlook
misspellings and misinterpretations in transcribing handwritten names on
documents.

I have had incredible luck with Prunty in soundex... I knew from established
family history that Charlotte and Emily Bronte were relatives and Charlotte was
my GGGGGG Grandmother. I also learned from Soundex that the original spelling
was Prontaigh or Brontaigh.

Interesting things you learn when you dig up your ancestors.... and I found
this with soundex.

Allen

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The Derby City BBS
-= Allen Prunty =- telnet://derbycitybbs.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Where Friends Gather
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
Derby City BBS - telnet://derbycitybbs.com

singhals

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av singhals » 19 jan 2008 16:53:10

Bruce Remick wrote:

"Allen Prunty" <nospam@alprunty.com> wrote in message
news:uvSdnaiw3pM0XQ3anZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@insightbb.com...

Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

Wouldn't it be easier to condense it down to a soundex then do a soundex
search? That would get you everything that "sounds like" the name.

Allen


Unfortunately, Soundex searches include many results that don't sound at all
like the name being searched. A Soundex search on REMICK often will bring
many results like Ranch, Rines, Ring, Ryan, etc., none of which sound at all
like REMICK. Further, any automated program would probably overlook
misspellings and misinterpretations in transcribing handwritten names on
documents.

Bruce




Yeah. You gotta be pretty drunk to say CRESAP so it
sounds-like Crazy Bull (one of the names that pops up in
Soundex lists).

Cheryl

Matthew Combs

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Matthew Combs » 19 jan 2008 21:10:24

On Jan 16, 6:47 pm, Keith nuttle <keith_nut...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"Keith nuttle" <keith_nut...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?

It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most common
dialects.

It should also consider letter degradations.  over time, t's degrade to
d's.

Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the same
sound.

Don't you trust yourself to take that one on?  You should be able to match
any program.  Do you have any specific names in mind?

Bruce

The name that I have most trouble with is Hindenlang.  It is probably
originated in the area where the present German France and Switzerland
come together.   The name came to the Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana area
in the USA in the early 1800's, and has been found in many creative
spelling when it has been found.

Would appreciate any addition ideas on how it maybe found in the
genealogical records.

--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN  46268
317-802-0699- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Keith,

For HINDENLANG, I suggest alternative spellings:

HINDELANG, HINDENLANGE, and HINDERLANG.

I am the author of the Surname Suggestion List software mentioned in a
previous post. I've been developing this software for about 6 months
now. I think it does a pretty good job of finding surname
variations. I've recently made some changes to the software to
incorporate more spelling variations as opposed to purely phonetic
variations. This recent effort was largely the result of your
posting. It triggered some ideas I've been having concerning
enhancing the program. I appreciate your posting.

If anybody has some good ideas for enhancing the program, let me
know. I can always use the advice of my fellow genealogy enthusiasts.

Matt Combs
Lewisville, NC
http://home.triad.rr.com/combsfamily/sslmain.html

Keith nuttle

Re: Spelling Names

Legg inn av Keith nuttle » 19 jan 2008 22:19:01

Henry Brownlee wrote:
"Henry" <h.hermsen@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:47911305$0$24412$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl...
| Keith nuttle schreef:
| > Bruce Remick wrote:
| >> "Keith nuttle" <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
| >> news:imejj.36123$JD.18181@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
| >>> Is anyone aware of a program that can generate all of the possible
| >>> spellings for the phonetic sounds in a name?
|
| >>> It should include the phonetic variations of the sound, in most
| >>> common dialects.
|
| >>> It should also consider letter degradations. over time, t's degrade
| >>> to d's.
|
| >>> Examples Bur, Ber, Bir could all be pronounced and heard as being the
| >>> same sound.
|
|
| >> Don't you trust yourself to take that one on? You should be able to
| >> match any program. Do you have any specific names in mind?
|
| >> Bruce
|
| > The name that I have most trouble with is Hindenlang. It is probably
| > originated in the area where the present German France and Switzerland
| > come together. The name came to the Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana area
| > in the USA in the early 1800's, and has been found in many creative
| > spelling when it has been found.
|
| > Would appreciate any addition ideas on how it maybe found in the
| > genealogical records.
|
|
|
| Maybe you could ask this question in soc.genealogy.german
|
|
| Henry

Tagging on to this one for sake of convenience:

In the New Orleans, Louisiana, area, the name is HINDELANG.

(The other) Henry

Posted original message


I had tried soundex to find the Hindenlang family. My question
originally came about because I observed that depending on how you spell
the name going into the soundex searches, the results found will be
slightly different. I agree with the poster who said some of the
soundex returns were quite off base.

However a soundex search Hindelang (from the previous post) provide some
additional leads on the family. Circumstantially evidence indicates
that the mother may have died before 1850, and the father left the boy
with family in Pennsylvania when he went west to western New York and
Ohio. Whatever it is additional avenues to research.


--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699

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