Nicholas Louveyne=Margaret?

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Nicholas Louveyne=Margaret?

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 nov 2007 02:51:14

All,
I realize most sources state that Nicholas Louveyne married Margaret Bereford, widow of Sir John de Pultney. However, could she have been a St. John?
British History Online:
Roger (St. John) in 1351 conveyed the reversion of Lagham after the death of his mother Katherine to Nicholas de Loveine and Margaret his wife. (fn. 28) Katherine and Peter de St. John, his kinsman and heir, afterwards quitclaimed their right to Nicholas, (fn. 29) who received a grant of free warren here in 1356. (fn. 30)
And, according to Douglas, Nicholas in his will requests prayers for Katherine and Roger since he held their inheritance.
Does anyone know first, who Katherine was and secondly, why Nicholas should have received their inheritance?
Thank you in advance,
Pat

Douglas Richardson

Re: Nicholas Louveyne=Margaret?

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 08 nov 2007 07:32:03

Dear Pat ~

Thank you for your good post.

Sir Nicholas Lovaine, about whom you enquired, acquired the Saint John
lands by purchase, not by inheritance. His first wife, Margaret, was
the daughter of John de Bereford, Citizen of London. She has no known
connection with the Saint John family.

As for Katherine de Saint John, mother of Roger de Saint John, she was
a member of the baronial Say family. Her ancestral line goes back to
Sir Geoffrey de Say (died 1230), the Magna Carta Baron, and his wife,
Hawise de Clare, as shown below.

1. GEOFFREY DE SAY, Knt. (died 1230), of Edmonton, Middlesex, West
Greenwich, Kent, etc., married HAWISE DE CLARE.

2. WILLIAM DE SAY, Knt., of Edmonton, Middlesex, West Greenwich, etc.,
married (1st) SIBYL _____ (said to be a Marshal).

3. WILLIAM DE SAY, Knt., of Edmonton, Middlesex, West Greenwich, Kent,
etc., married ELIZABETH _____.

4. GEOFFREY DE SAY, Knt., of Edmonton, Middlesex, West Greenwich,
Kent, etc., married IDOINE DE LEYBOURNE.

5. KATHERINE DE SAY, married before 10 Nov. 1320 (date of license for
enfeoffment) JOHN DE SAINT JOHN, 3rd Lord Saint John of Lageham
[References: Russell, Swallowfield and its Owners (1901): 43;
Cal.Patent Rolls, 1317-1321 (1903): 520; Complete Peerage, 11 (1949):
350 (sub Saint John); Paget, Baronage of England (1957) 485: 1-10 (sub
Say)].

Best always, Douglas RIchardson, Salt Lake City, Utah


On Nov 7, 6:51 pm, pajun...@bellsouth.net wrote:
< All,
< I realize most sources state that Nicholas Louveyne married Margaret
Bereford, widow of Sir John de Pultney. However, could she have been a
St. John?
< British History Online:
< Roger (St. John) in 1351 conveyed the reversion of Lagham after the
death of his mother Katherine to Nicholas de Loveine and Margaret his
wife. (fn. 28) Katherine and Peter de St. John, his kinsman and heir,
afterwards quitclaimed their right to Nicholas, (fn. 29) who received
a grant of free warren here in 1356. (fn. 30)
< And, according to Douglas, Nicholas in his will requests prayers for
Katherine and Roger since he held their inheritance.
< Does anyone know first, who Katherine was and secondly, why Nicholas
should have received their inheritance?
< Thank you in advance,
< Pat

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