1851 Canadian Census

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Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 04 nov 2007 21:41:22

Has anyone here ever searched though the 1851 Canadian Census records
online? http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivi ... dex-e.html
Right now I am looking at Berthier County, Ste-Elisabeth. I don't read
French., but it's fun to try.

Michelle

jburns

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av jburns » 05 nov 2007 19:24:09

I often use it.
"Michelle, Sabrina's Mom" <michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com> wrote in
message news:S7qXi.1749$FO.772@trndny01...
Has anyone here ever searched though the 1851 Canadian Census records
online? http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivi ... dex-e.html
Right now I am looking at Berthier County, Ste-Elisabeth. I don't read
French., but it's fun to try.

Michelle

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 06 nov 2007 04:05:26

Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz



On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:41:22 GMT, in alt.genealogy
"Michelle, Sabrina's Mom"
<michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com> wrote :

Has anyone here ever searched though the 1851 Canadian Census records
online? http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivi ... dex-e.html
Right now I am looking at Berthier County, Ste-Elisabeth. I don't read
French., but it's fun to try.

Michelle

jburns

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av jburns » 06 nov 2007 18:07:28

The 1851 census is indexed.
John
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:97mvi31t589q85cvvlr60h1cfoot0sdboh@4ax.com...
Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz



On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:41:22 GMT, in alt.genealogy
"Michelle, Sabrina's Mom"
michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com> wrote :

Has anyone here ever searched though the 1851 Canadian Census records
online? http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivi ... dex-e.html
Right now I am looking at Berthier County, Ste-Elisabeth. I don't read
French., but it's fun to try.

Michelle


Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 06 nov 2007 18:55:03

"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:97mvi31t589q85cvvlr60h1cfoot0sdboh@4ax.com...
Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz

Hi Liz,

Right now I am looking through Berthier (district 3)
Ste-Elisabeth (sub-district 38), Looking for a Moise Courtois. It is
microfilm reel # C-1116. It is a tedious but interesting task.

Michelle

Mark Roy

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Mark Roy » 07 nov 2007 02:31:27

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:97mvi31t589q85cvvlr60h1cfoot0sdboh@4ax.com...
Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz

Hi Liz,

Right now I am looking through Berthier (district 3)
Ste-Elisabeth (sub-district 38), Looking for a Moise Courtois. It is
microfilm reel # C-1116. It is a tedious but interesting task.


Try

Sub-District: St Ambroise de Kildare
Sub-District Number: 43
Page: 1
Line: 29
Roll: C_1116
Schedule: A


Michelle


Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 07 nov 2007 03:07:21

"Mark Roy" <xxx@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nbWdnePfTZCkiKzanZ2dnUVZ_uHinZ2d@comcast.com...
Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:97mvi31t589q85cvvlr60h1cfoot0sdboh@4ax.com...
Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz

Hi Liz,

Right now I am looking through Berthier (district 3)
Ste-Elisabeth (sub-district 38), Looking for a Moise Courtois. It is
microfilm reel # C-1116. It is a tedious but interesting task.


Try

Sub-District: St Ambroise de Kildare
Sub-District Number: 43
Page: 1
Line: 29
Roll: C_1116
Schedule: A

ok

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 07 nov 2007 03:58:49

"Michelle, Sabrina's Mom" <michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com> wrote in
message news:t59Yi.5204$lx.716@trndny05...
"Mark Roy" <xxx@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nbWdnePfTZCkiKzanZ2dnUVZ_uHinZ2d@comcast.com...
Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:97mvi31t589q85cvvlr60h1cfoot0sdboh@4ax.com...
Too bad they aren't indexed....

coloum headings are

Name, occupation,palce of birth, religion,place where they
normally live(?), age at last birthday, male or female.

What / which one were you specifically where you interested
in?

take care
Liz

Hi Liz,

Right now I am looking through Berthier (district 3)
Ste-Elisabeth (sub-district 38), Looking for a Moise Courtois. It is
microfilm reel # C-1116. It is a tedious but interesting task.


Try

Sub-District: St Ambroise de Kildare
Sub-District Number: 43
Page: 1
Line: 29
Roll: C_1116
Schedule: A

ok

I found them, I think I have a match but it's not 100%. In my 1910 US

Federal Census I have my Moise Courtois being 66 on 21 April. That was when
the census was taken. According to his headstone he was born in 1845. The
1851 Canadian Census documents this Moise at being 8. Now was that census
done in 1851 or was it 1852? I calculate mine would be 7 in 1851. Can
someone help me with the math?
The other day I drove up to the ACGS in Manchester with the intention of
looking him up in the Blue Drouin as I believe he was married there in
Quebec, but they were closed! Argh, I am going back tomorrow. They will be
open. His wife is Clothilde Lonetin.
He is my link, He was the first one in the Courtois line that I am
researching who was born in Canada. Where? I dunno! lol.. I'm Frustrated. I
have 4 lines going right now. And lots of info to try and process. I enjoy
it lots but it can be painstaking, can't it?
Thanks : )

..

clifto

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av clifto » 07 nov 2007 04:29:49

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
I found them, I think I have a match but it's not 100%. In my 1910 US
Federal Census I have my Moise Courtois being 66 on 21 April. That was when
the census was taken. According to his headstone he was born in 1845. The
1851 Canadian Census documents this Moise at being 8. Now was that census
done in 1851 or was it 1852? I calculate mine would be 7 in 1851. Can
someone help me with the math?

Take census ages with a grain of salt. I have at least one person whose
headstone says he was born in 1882 but who was 2 years old on the 1880
census. People routinely go 8 - 17 - 29 - 38 in succeeding decades in my
lines on the censuses, or the like. It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.

--
One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches):
Three feet
Three inches
Three eights of an inch

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 07 nov 2007 09:24:27

Where will I find the index?

Liz


On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:07:28 GMT, in alt.genealogy "jburns"
<johnburns@telus.net> wrote :

The 1851 census is indexed.
John

Sir Creep

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Sir Creep » 07 nov 2007 14:14:08

On Nov 6, 10:29 pm, clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:
Take census ages with a grain of salt. I have at least one person whose
headstone says he was born in 1882 but who was 2 years old on the 1880
census. People routinely go 8 - 17 - 29 - 38 in succeeding decades in my
lines on the censuses, or the like. It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.

1) I can attest to the truth in the premise of your comment, as I too
have a GG-Grandmother whose headstone says she was 102 yrs old at
death, when in fact she was 88.

2) I have to disagree with what appears to be your conclusion, though,
as summed up in your final sentence: That birthdates 'weren't
important' to people back then (whenever that was---pray tell, what
year did 'back then' end and 'now' start?). Why do you make a
socialogical conclusion like that? Why would birthdays have been any
less important to folks? What is far likely to be true 'back then',
imho, are a couple of things: a) RECORDING people's birthdates 'wasn't
important' to folks, more likely, and b) you probably had a lot more
of the biblical 'respect your elders' attitudes 'back then', as in 'if
your mother says you were born in 1878, you were born in 1878, don't
talk back,' and that's the date you went with, no questions asked.
Years later (now? LOL) we can look back in official records and find
and question some of the dates we come across, or long-standing family
'facts'....but to conclude that society--for reasons I can't wait to
hear--didn't find accuracy in birthdates to be 'important' I have
never before heard and is a presumption I allow Clifto to support.
Things weren't recorded as well 'back then' and word of mouth has its
flaws, as we know. THAT is more likely the reason the census taker
was given flawed info, again imho.

Sir C. (PB)

jburns

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av jburns » 07 nov 2007 19:01:33

Ancestry.ca
John
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:fkt2j3183thbomcjkmlab82s05iv05v7ci@4ax.com...
Where will I find the index?

Liz


On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:07:28 GMT, in alt.genealogy "jburns"
johnburns@telus.net> wrote :

The 1851 census is indexed.
John

Larry Van Wormer

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Larry Van Wormer » 07 nov 2007 22:57:14

jburns wrote:
Ancestry.ca
John
"Liz_in_Calgary" <misnomer@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:fkt2j3183thbomcjkmlab82s05iv05v7ci@4ax.com...
Where will I find the index?

And, fairly quickly too, a free index is being created at:

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census52/

Larry Van Wormer

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 07 nov 2007 23:23:00

"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2o705-ota.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
I found them, I think I have a match but it's not 100%. In my 1910 US
Federal Census I have my Moise Courtois being 66 on 21 April. That was
when
the census was taken. According to his headstone he was born in 1845. The
1851 Canadian Census documents this Moise at being 8. Now was that census
done in 1851 or was it 1852? I calculate mine would be 7 in 1851. Can
someone help me with the math?

Take census ages with a grain of salt. I have at least one person whose
headstone says he was born in 1882 but who was 2 years old on the 1880
census. People routinely go 8 - 17 - 29 - 38 in succeeding decades in my
lines on the censuses, or the like. It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.

--

Hi, It is them! Lol, Thanks Mark! I went up to the ACGS today and I found
this family. I found them in the Maskinonge Repetoire. Thanks a bunch ; )

Gordon Thompson

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Gordon Thompson » 08 nov 2007 06:55:59

I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off on
the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to another.
Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done they were a
part of a different area, under a different name.




"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2o705-ota.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
I found them, I think I have a match but it's not 100%. In my 1910 US
Federal Census I have my Moise Courtois being 66 on 21 April. That was
when
the census was taken. According to his headstone he was born in 1845. The
1851 Canadian Census documents this Moise at being 8. Now was that census
done in 1851 or was it 1852? I calculate mine would be 7 in 1851. Can
someone help me with the math?

Take census ages with a grain of salt. I have at least one person whose
headstone says he was born in 1882 but who was 2 years old on the 1880
census. People routinely go 8 - 17 - 29 - 38 in succeeding decades in my
lines on the censuses, or the like. It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.

--
One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches):
Three feet
Three inches
Three eights of an inch

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 08 nov 2007 12:00:28

"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j597gqsgk4c9c@corp.supernews.com...
I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off on
the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to
another. Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done
they were a part of a different area, under a different name.

Gordon, I can't seem to find any dates on the image I am looking at.

However, the image that I am looking is one of 4. They are broken up into
four separate .pdf files. (e.g., 1a, 1b, 1c and 1d.) I will look at the
others and see if I can find a date.

I am also confused about parish, township and county boundaries in Quebec. I
am trying to read about them and look at maps. It is helping.

paul c

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av paul c » 08 nov 2007 23:51:30

clifto wrote:
....
Take census ages with a grain of salt. I have at least one person whose
headstone says he was born in 1882 but who was 2 years old on the 1880
census. People routinely go 8 - 17 - 29 - 38 in succeeding decades in my
lines on the censuses, or the like. It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.


Heh heh, I think that's certainly partly right and maybe some of it is
due to amateur census takers too. Grandmother and a couple of her
sisters didn't marry until they were in their thirties. This was a
hundred years ago; the last marriage was in 1905. They routinely gave
birth dates 7 to 10 years lower than their real ones, even appearing on
some census records and ship manifests as younger than their baby
brother. While single, I think they much preferred to be recorded in
official records as daughter rather than spinster. It makes me think
birth dates have always been very important to a lot of women but I get
the impression that being older was sometimes an advantage for men in
those days, less so now.

Mark Roy

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Mark Roy » 09 nov 2007 02:26:24

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j597gqsgk4c9c@corp.supernews.com...
I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off on
the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to
another. Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done
they were a part of a different area, under a different name.

Gordon, I can't seem to find any dates on the image I am looking at.
However, the image that I am looking is one of 4. They are broken up into
four separate .pdf files. (e.g., 1a, 1b, 1c and 1d.) I will look at the
others and see if I can find a date.

I am also confused about parish, township and county boundaries in Quebec. I
am trying to read about them and look at maps. It is helping.



From the CollectionsCanada web site
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/arch ... dex-e.html:

"Much of the actual census-taking did not occur until 1852 since the
planning was not completed in time and so, it is also sometimes referred
to as the Census of 1852."

Mark Roy

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Mark Roy » 09 nov 2007 02:56:32

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j597gqsgk4c9c@corp.supernews.com...
I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off on
the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to
another. Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done
they were a part of a different area, under a different name.

Gordon, I can't seem to find any dates on the image I am looking at.
However, the image that I am looking is one of 4. They are broken up into
four separate .pdf files. (e.g., 1a, 1b, 1c and 1d.) I will look at the
others and see if I can find a date.

I am also confused about parish, township and county boundaries in Quebec. I
am trying to read about them and look at maps. It is helping.



According to the instructions to enumerators excerpted here:
http://www.prdh.umontreal.ca/1881/enum_1852.html,

Col. 6 – The age of each person, *next* birth day.

So the age given could be up to 364 days away from their actual age.
Taken into account with the fact that the "1851" census was taken in
1852, ages could be as much as a couple of years off from where you'd
expect them to be.

I don't find any mention of an "as-of" date for the census.

Also of note, parts of the 1851/2 Census were destroyed.

Re boundaries: a good site (if you can read a bit of French or know how
to use online translation tools) for geographical information and some
historical info for places (dates of establishment, etc.) is
http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/topos/topos.asp. There's also
http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e.php.

Mark

Gordon Thompson

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Gordon Thompson » 09 nov 2007 04:54:43

It is just occationally that the microfilms include a sheet that has the
official signing off of the census taken by a given person, and then the
date is shown. On the internet these may not show at all. If it appears it
is likely on the last pages from a region.


"Michelle, Sabrina's Mom" <michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com> wrote in
message news:g%BYi.4917$sN.450@trndny02...
"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j597gqsgk4c9c@corp.supernews.com...
I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off on
the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to
another. Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done
they were a part of a different area, under a different name.

Gordon, I can't seem to find any dates on the image I am looking at.
However, the image that I am looking is one of 4. They are broken up into
four separate .pdf files. (e.g., 1a, 1b, 1c and 1d.) I will look at the
others and see if I can find a date.

I am also confused about parish, township and county boundaries in Quebec.
I am trying to read about them and look at maps. It is helping.


Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 09 nov 2007 12:14:51

"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j7mg691p94o9a@corp.supernews.com...
It is just occationally that the microfilms include a sheet that has the
official signing off of the census taken by a given person, and then the
date is shown. On the internet these may not show at all. If it appears it
is likely on the last pages from a region.


Thanks, I will take a look.

Michelle, Sabrina's Mom

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av Michelle, Sabrina's Mom » 09 nov 2007 12:16:04

"Mark Roy" <xxx@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m-ydnZd_ieqEI67anZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote:
"Gordon Thompson" <grthomps@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13j597gqsgk4c9c@corp.supernews.com...
I have seen one "1851" census out of Quebec where the taker signed off
on the work as completed in Feb, 1852.

Back then there were a number of changes to the county and township
boundries in Quebec, so some places shifted from one named area to
another. Thus some places are not shown because when the census was done
they were a part of a different area, under a different name.

Gordon, I can't seem to find any dates on the image I am looking at.
However, the image that I am looking is one of 4. They are broken up into
four separate .pdf files. (e.g., 1a, 1b, 1c and 1d.) I will look at the
others and see if I can find a date.

I am also confused about parish, township and county boundaries in
Quebec. I am trying to read about them and look at maps. It is helping.



According to the instructions to enumerators excerpted here:
http://www.prdh.umontreal.ca/1881/enum_1852.html,

Col. 6 – The age of each person, *next* birth day.

So the age given could be up to 364 days away from their actual age. Taken
into account with the fact that the "1851" census was taken in 1852, ages
could be as much as a couple of years off from where you'd expect them to
be.

I don't find any mention of an "as-of" date for the census.

Also of note, parts of the 1851/2 Census were destroyed.

Re boundaries: a good site (if you can read a bit of French or know how to
use online translation tools) for geographical information and some
historical info for places (dates of establishment, etc.) is
http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/topos/topos.asp. There's also
http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e.php.

Mark

Thanks Mark

clifto

Re: 1851 Canadian Census

Legg inn av clifto » 10 nov 2007 04:52:17

Sir Creep wrote:
On Nov 6, 10:29 pm, clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:
It just wasn't important to people
back then to know their exact birth dates.

2) I have to disagree with what appears to be your conclusion, though,
as summed up in your final sentence: That birthdates 'weren't
important' to people back then (whenever that was---pray tell, what
year did 'back then' end and 'now' start?). Why do you make a
socialogical conclusion like that?

Something I read a while back persuaded me of that. There were no forms
to be filled out, no paperwork to fret over. About all you needed to know
was whether you were old enough to vote and had someone who would vouch
that you were. You didn't need to know whether you were born on the 15th
or the 18th (or for that matter whether February or March) to work the
farm.

Why would birthdays have been any
less important to folks? What is far likely to be true 'back then',
imho, are a couple of things: a) RECORDING people's birthdates 'wasn't
important' to folks, more likely, and b) you probably had a lot more
of the biblical 'respect your elders' attitudes 'back then', as in 'if
your mother says you were born in 1878, you were born in 1878, don't
talk back,' and that's the date you went with, no questions asked.

Enough of my relatives have different birthdates throughout their lives
on the censuses that I really do believe it wasn't important to them.
I remember observing one recently who was either born in March one year
or November the previous year, and thinking that all he was considering
was that the leaves were missing from the trees at the time.

Years later (now? LOL) we can look back in official records and find
and question some of the dates we come across, or long-standing family
'facts'....but to conclude that society--for reasons I can't wait to
hear--didn't find accuracy in birthdates to be 'important' I have
never before heard and is a presumption I allow Clifto to support.
Things weren't recorded as well 'back then' and word of mouth has its
flaws, as we know. THAT is more likely the reason the census taker
was given flawed info, again imho.

It's possible.

I'll keep my eyes open for whatever it was that I read. It was at least
interesting enough to mention.

--
One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches):
Three feet
Three inches
Three eights of an inch

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