Jail sentences in 1880

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aspidistra

Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av aspidistra » 22 okt 2007 12:29:42

Unfortunately I learned that the father in law and third husband of two of
my relatives murdered his first wife. He shows up on many censuses as a
boarder and with his second and third wives, and I wondered why he was not
put in jail. I finally fouond the census where he was in jail, immediately
after the murder in 1880, but by 1993 he was marrying my great grand aunt.

Thirteen years or less seems a very small sentence for cold blooded murder
(he poisoned her). Have any of you run across things like this, and was
this light sentence usual back in 1880?

The more I look up facts, dates and people, the more horrors I am finding
out and it's no wonder my father would not talk about his family. Who knew
in the 1800s that decades later the internet would reveal all the skeletons
in the closet. I am sure the family at the time believed that it really
could be kept secret forever from the children and the rest of the
descendants.

Hugh Watkins

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 22 okt 2007 16:25:06

aspidistra wrote:

Unfortunately I learned that the father in law and third husband of two of
my relatives murdered his first wife. He shows up on many censuses as a
boarder and with his second and third wives, and I wondered why he was not
put in jail. I finally fouond the census where he was in jail, immediately
after the murder in 1880, but by 1993 he was marrying my great grand aunt.

Thirteen years or less seems a very small sentence for cold blooded murder
(he poisoned her). Have any of you run across things like this, and was
this light sentence usual back in 1880?

The more I look up facts, dates and people, the more horrors I am finding
out and it's no wonder my father would not talk about his family. Who knew
in the 1800s that decades later the internet would reveal all the skeletons
in the closet. I am sure the family at the time believed that it really
could be kept secret forever from the children and the rest of the
descendants.

seen from the outside
at a safe distance of 100 years or more such events are envied as
adding "spice" to a family tree

the man may have been mentally ill
or of unsound mind at the time of the crime
and therefor not executed


Hugh W

--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Terry

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av Terry » 22 okt 2007 21:49:19

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:25:06 +0100, Hugh Watkins wrote:

forev
the man may have been mentally ill
or of unsound mind at the time of the crime
and therefor not executed


Hugh W

Doesn't stop them in Texas today!

--
Terry

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 22 okt 2007 23:11:44

I think the fact that it was his wife may have been a factor
in such a light sentance. In those days a wife was little
more than Chattel. Had it been another man, thats a whole
nother thing.

And not to mention that jails in those days were pretty bad
places to be.

Intersting family you have there. What was your great grand
aunt thinking when she married the fellow? Was she looking
after the kids? Ah well, they have to be related to someone.

take care
Liz





On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:29:42 GMT, in alt.genealogy
"aspidistra" <aspidistra@x82md.com> wrote :

Unfortunately I learned that the father in law and third husband of two of
my relatives murdered his first wife. He shows up on many censuses as a
boarder and with his second and third wives, and I wondered why he was not
put in jail. I finally fouond the census where he was in jail, immediately
after the murder in 1880, but by 1993 he was marrying my great grand aunt.

Thirteen years or less seems a very small sentence for cold blooded murder
(he poisoned her). Have any of you run across things like this, and was
this light sentence usual back in 1880?

The more I look up facts, dates and people, the more horrors I am finding
out and it's no wonder my father would not talk about his family. Who knew
in the 1800s that decades later the internet would reveal all the skeletons
in the closet. I am sure the family at the time believed that it really
could be kept secret forever from the children and the rest of the
descendants.

T.M. Sommers

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av T.M. Sommers » 24 okt 2007 08:07:44

aspidistra wrote:
Unfortunately I learned that the father in law and third husband of two of
my relatives murdered his first wife. He shows up on many censuses as a
boarder and with his second and third wives, and I wondered why he was not
put in jail. I finally fouond the census where he was in jail, immediately
after the murder in 1880, but by 1993 he was marrying my great grand aunt.

Thirteen years or less seems a very small sentence for cold blooded murder
(he poisoned her). Have any of you run across things like this, and was
this light sentence usual back in 1880?

I have a several-times-great uncle who was sentenced to 61 months
for attempted murder in Apr 1858. He was out before Jan 1861.
Earlier he and his brother had been arrested for murder, but
don't appear ever to have been tried for it (although two others
were tried). I have another distant uncle who shot his estranged
wife and her aunt on the street in Jun 1895. By 1898 he was
having children by his next wife, so it does not look like he
ever went to jail.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB

aspidistra

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av aspidistra » 29 okt 2007 23:08:25

I have a several-times-great uncle who was sentenced to 61 months for
attempted murder in Apr 1858. He was out before Jan 1861. Earlier he and
his brother had been arrested for murder, but don't appear ever to have
been tried for it (although two others were tried). I have another
distant uncle who shot his estranged wife and her aunt on the street in
Jun 1895. By 1898 he was having children by his next wife, so it does not
look like he ever went to jail.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB


Thanks for the replies; I found out that the person was given a full pardon
by the governor. I learned there was question of his guilt because it
couldn't really be proved that he administered the arsenic; and that he was
a model prisoner. However, from reading the inquest or whatever it was and
people's testimonies about his actions trying to buy the arsenic and forcing
her to drink the "herb tea" and her agonizing death with people milling
around seemingly unable to help, I'm pretty sure it was cold blooded murder.
That he was a sociopath, who could convince people of his innocence. They
exhumed the body, they found arsenic in the stomach. It's as simple as that.
But no one's going to care but me that he got away with it. The thing is
he's got descendants, they are normal decent people and they are going to
believe he was innocent, so what do you do. I will leave it to future
historians who look at the genealogy, but they probably won't care either.
It blows my mind how no one cares about any fact that I dig up, whether
happy or sad......and I don't even dig hard to find these, they are
everywhere, they are there in black and white.

I've moved on from researching him and will leave it at that. Everywhere I
turn there are more facts to gather for other people in the family tree,
great things like real names, dates, new people I discover when I find
another census or family letter. It's taken over a year because there are
thousands of people and one fact leads to ten more, and so on.

cecilia

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av cecilia » 30 okt 2007 00:25:29

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:08:25 GMT, "aspidistra" <aspidistra@x82md.com>
wrote:

[...] It blows my mind how no one
cares about any fact that I dig up, whether
happy or sad..[...]

As one who has many forebears who "did" genealogy etc, I expect that
if I leave paper copies of my resuilts around, someone two or three
generations after me will use what I have produced in the same way
that I use the work of my first cousin 9 times removed, my fifth
cousin twice removed, my second cousins twice removed, my
great-great-aunt-in-law, my great-uncle etc.

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: Jail sentences in 1880

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 30 okt 2007 03:46:01

Some folks really don't care about ancestors, good or bad,
they are wrapped up in getting by in their own day to day
stuff.

Sometimes its a matter of how a story is told and not so
much the story itself. Who knows, you can use it to make
someone feel better about their own life when you tell them
that its not so bad, after all your great grandfather
murdered your great granny...

Im a little jealous - all my ancestors just seem to be doing
the same thing - born, married, had kids, died. It looks
like I'm the one that is the skeleton in the closet.

take care
Liz









On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:08:25 GMT, in alt.genealogy
"aspidistra" <aspidistra@x82md.com> wrote :

Thanks for the replies; I found out that the person was given a full pardon
by the governor. I learned there was question of his guilt because it
couldn't really be proved that he administered the arsenic; and that he was
a model prisoner. However, from reading the inquest or whatever it was and
people's testimonies about his actions trying to buy the arsenic and forcing
her to drink the "herb tea" and her agonizing death with people milling
around seemingly unable to help, I'm pretty sure it was cold blooded murder.
That he was a sociopath, who could convince people of his innocence. They
exhumed the body, they found arsenic in the stomach. It's as simple as that.
But no one's going to care but me that he got away with it. The thing is
he's got descendants, they are normal decent people and they are going to
believe he was innocent, so what do you do. I will leave it to future
historians who look at the genealogy, but they probably won't care either.
It blows my mind how no one cares about any fact that I dig up, whether
happy or sad......and I don't even dig hard to find these, they are
everywhere, they are there in black and white.

I've moved on from researching him and will leave it at that. Everywhere I
turn there are more facts to gather for other people in the family tree,
great things like real names, dates, new people I discover when I find
another census or family letter. It's taken over a year because there are
thousands of people and one fact leads to ten more, and so on.


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