Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

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John Watson

Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av John Watson » 20 okt 2007 00:44:14

Hi all,

The charters of Marrick priory in Richmondshire are printed in
Collecteana & Genealogica, Vol V , 1838 - which is available on Google
Books.

On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' .

Does anyone have any explanation of this relationship?

Regards,

John

John Watson

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av John Watson » 20 okt 2007 02:02:59

On Oct 20, 7:44 am, John Watson <WatsonJo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

The charters of Marrick priory in Richmondshire are printed in
Collecteana & Genealogica, Vol V , 1838 - which is available on Google
Books.

On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' .

Does anyone have any explanation of this relationship?

Regards,

John

Sorry that should have been Collecteana Topographica & Genealogica,
Vol V

Regards,

John

WJhonson

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av WJhonson » 20 okt 2007 02:05:19

<<<In a message dated 10/19/07 16:45:31 Pacific Daylight Time, WatsonJohnM@gmail.com writes:
On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' . >>>
------------------
Can you verify for me that the charter calls Conan duc or is the duke an addition by the editor or yourself? I ask in trying to pin a date range to the charter.
Thanks
Will Johnson

John Watson

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av John Watson » 20 okt 2007 12:32:55

On Oct 20, 9:05 am, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 10/19/07 16:45:31 Pacific Daylight Time, WatsonJo...@gmail.com writes:
On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' .
------------------
Can you verify for me that the charter calls Conan duc or is the duke an addition by the editor or yourself? I ask in trying to pin a date range to the charter.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Hi Will,

The charter reads : Conanus Dux Britannie et comes Richemundie ...
Notum sit vobis quod dedi et concessi charissimo consanguineo meo
Conano Aske totam illam terram quam suus habuit ... etc.

The charter must date from around 1155 to 1166. One possible
explanation of the relationship, but one for which there is absolutely
no evidence, would be if Conan Aske's grandfather Wihomarc / Wymer the
steward of Richmond had married a sister of Conan the duke's
grandfather, who I think would be Stephen, Count of Penthievre.

Regards,

John

John Watson

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av John Watson » 21 okt 2007 02:51:23

On Oct 20, 9:05 am, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 10/19/07 16:45:31 Pacific Daylight Time, WatsonJo....@gmail.com writes:
On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' .
------------------
Can you verify for me that the charter calls Conan duc or is the duke an addition by the editor or yourself? I ask in trying to pin a date range to the charter.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Will,

In order to clarify my question a bit.

The wife of Wymar / Wimar / Wihomar de Aske, the paternal grandfather
of Conan de Aske, is unknown. My suggestion is that he married an
illegitimate or unknown daughter of either Count Stephen, Count of
Tréguier, Brittany and Lamballe (also called Etienne) or of his father
Eudes, Count of Penthiévre.

If she was a daughter of Eudes, (who is known to have had at least 3
illegitimate sons) then Conan IV would be a second cousin of Conan de
Aske. If she was a daughter of Stephen, then they would be first
cousins.

Wymar, steward of the lords of Richmond had two sons, Warin (Warner)
the Steward and Roger [de Aske]. Roger probably died before 1157-8,
when Ralph his son rendered account to the king with Warin.
['Parishes: Thornton Steward', A History of the County of York North
Riding: Volume 1 (1914), pp. 264-268]

Roger de Aske had two sons Ralph and Conan. Conan de Aske was probably
born about 1130-1140 and succeeded his father Roger (and his brother
Ralph) before 1169.

Regards,

John

John Watson

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av John Watson » 22 okt 2007 02:33:19

On Oct 21, 9:51 am, John Watson <WatsonJo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 20, 9:05 am, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 10/19/07 16:45:31 Pacific Daylight Time, WatsonJo....@gmail.com writes:
On page 103 there is a charter in which Conan duke of Brittany, (1138
- 20 Feb 1171) refers to Conan de Aske (d. bef 1208) as his dear
cousin 'charissimio consanguineao meo' .
------------------
Can you verify for me that the charter calls Conan duc or is the duke an addition by the editor or yourself? I ask in trying to pin a date range to the charter.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Will,

In order to clarify my question a bit.

The wife of Wymar / Wimar / Wihomar de Aske, the paternal grandfather
of Conan de Aske, is unknown. My suggestion is that he married an
illegitimate or unknown daughter of either Count Stephen, Count of
Tréguier, Brittany and Lamballe (also called Etienne) or of his father
Eudes, Count of Penthiévre.

If she was a daughter of Eudes, (who is known to have had at least 3
illegitimate sons) then Conan IV would be a second cousin of Conan de
Aske. If she was a daughter of Stephen, then they would be first
cousins.

Wymar, steward of the lords of Richmond had two sons, Warin (Warner)
the Steward and Roger [de Aske]. Roger probably died before 1157-8,
when Ralph his son rendered account to the king with Warin.
['Parishes: Thornton Steward', A History of the County of York North
Riding: Volume 1 (1914), pp. 264-268]

Roger de Aske had two sons Ralph and Conan. Conan de Aske was probably
born about 1130-1140 and succeeded his father Roger (and his brother
Ralph) before 1169.

Regards,

John

It would seem that Conan IV had a few cousins in Richmondshire. I've
just found another charter on Google Books where he refers to
Harsculph de Cleasby as his dear cousin. Here's the first part of it
(it's very long):

"Conanus filius Conani comes Richmondiae, omnibus hominibus suis
Franciis et Anglicis, clericis et laicis tam presentibus quam futuris
salutem. Notum sit vobia quod dedi concessi et hac presentí carta mea
confirmavi Harschulpho Cleseby meo carissimo consanguineo et
constabilario castri mei Richmondiae, et omnibus terris
et tenementis suis in novo foresto manerio et dominio de Merske cum
pertinentiis, libertatem et communam in omnibus locis terris, pratis,
silvis, campis, moris, boscis, planis, pascuis et pasturis, cum bonis
suis omnibus et catallis cujuscumque generia vel speciei sint aut
fuerint et in omnibus aliis aisisamentis et proficuis et commoditat
ibus ad alicujus creaturaa usum pertenentibus vel intra aut supra
terram cum pertinentiis spectantibus. " [Archaeologica Aeliana, New
Series, Vol V, Newcastle, 1861, p 26]

Interesting that Harsculph is here given as the constable of the
castle in Richmond. Roger de Aske was the steward of the castle, so it
looks like the Count Alans (black & red) or Count Stephen staffed the
castle with relatives.

Regards,

John

alden@mindspring.com

Re: Conan IV Duke of Brittany and Conan de Aske

Legg inn av alden@mindspring.com » 22 okt 2007 16:57:51


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