Technical GEDCOM question

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jaredprattfamily

Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av jaredprattfamily » 19 jul 2007 20:23:28

I have a couple of questions about a GEDCOM file. First, if I export
from my PAF file and make a GEDCOM, each individual is given a unique
identifier number. If I then import that ged file into Rootsmagic (or
any other software) and add, edit and change some things, and then
reexport it as a GEDCOM, will the unique identifying numbers be the
same for each individual as in the original GEDCOM? If I added new
individuals, will they just get the next available number--for
example, if I had 2000 individuals in the first gedcom, added 5
individuals, would those individuals then be number 2001, 2002, 2003,
2004, and 2005 in the new GEDCOM?

Thanks, would really appreciate some help on this one!

Gjest

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av Gjest » 19 jul 2007 21:55:47

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:23:28 -0000, jaredprattfamily
<jaredprattfamily@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a couple of questions about a GEDCOM file. First, if I export
from my PAF file and make a GEDCOM, each individual is given a unique
identifier number. If I then import that ged file into Rootsmagic (or
any other software) and add, edit and change some things, and then
reexport it as a GEDCOM, will the unique identifying numbers be the
same for each individual as in the original GEDCOM? If I added new
individuals, will they just get the next available number--for
example, if I had 2000 individuals in the first gedcom, added 5
individuals, would those individuals then be number 2001, 2002, 2003,
2004, and 2005 in the new GEDCOM?

Why don't you just try it and see? A GEDCOM is just a text file. Open it
with `notepad` or any text editor and take a look.

--

Dennis K.

Hugh Watkins

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 19 jul 2007 22:24:33

jaredprattfamily wrote:
I have a couple of questions about a GEDCOM file. First, if I export
from my PAF file and make a GEDCOM, each individual is given a unique
identifier number. If I then import that ged file into Rootsmagic (or
any other software) and add, edit and change some things, and then
reexport it as a GEDCOM, will the unique identifying numbers be the
same for each individual as in the original GEDCOM? If I added new
individuals, will they just get the next available number--for
example, if I had 2000 individuals in the first gedcom, added 5
individuals, would those individuals then be number 2001, 2002, 2003,
2004, and 2005 in the new GEDCOM?

Thanks, would really appreciate some help on this one!


you already asked this in another better group
why does it matter?


Hugh W

--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

John Hill

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av John Hill » 20 jul 2007 09:32:43

jaredprattfamily <jaredprattfamily@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a couple of questions about a GEDCOM file. First, if I export
from my PAF file and make a GEDCOM, each individual is given a unique
identifier number. If I then import that ged file into Rootsmagic (or
any other software) and add, edit and change some things, and then
reexport it as a GEDCOM, will the unique identifying numbers be the
same for each individual as in the original GEDCOM? If I added new
individuals, will they just get the next available number--for
example, if I had 2000 individuals in the first gedcom, added 5
individuals, would those individuals then be number 2001, 2002, 2003,
2004, and 2005 in the new GEDCOM?

Thanks, would really appreciate some help on this one!

Are you talking about the Unique Identifier Number, e.g.
_UID BEFE85BD28B311DC81E600039351C300D7BE,
or the individual number
@I4803@ INDI
?

The former is carried across to the new file and back again - it is, as
it claims to be, unique (as can be guessed from its length) and can be
used e.g. when merging people in a family file.

The latter is used internally in the linking of the GEDCOM, to link
parents to children etc., and is not normally copied into the new family
file. That is the case in Reunion, anyway - this uses its internal
PersonID for the INDI.

For example:

0 @I4803@ INDI
1 NAME Alfred /Simmonite/
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT MAR 1857
.....

is used later ( HUSB, line 2):

0 @F3599@ FAM
1 HUSB @I4803@
1 WIFE @I5239@
1 MARR
2 DATE ABT DEC 1875
2 PLAC Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
2 SOUR @S96@
3 PAGE Marriages Dec 1875, Sheffield 9c 666
1 _UID 448DAC5CCE3011DBAC6900039351C30082BF
1 CHIL @I5245@
1 CHIL @I5240@
1 CHIL @I5241@
1 CHIL @I5242@
1 CHIL @I5243@
1 CHIL @I5244@
.....

The numbers for the children appear as CHIL to link them in to the
family.

If you re-import the GEDCOM into the original file each person imported
is given a new PersonID which has nothing to do with the INDI. The
PersonID numbers just follow on in Reunion's private sequence (filling
in any gaps as it goes, so they are not necessarily even in continuous
sequence).

If you need to go into the GEDOM standard in depth, visit:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~pmcbride ... 5gctoc.htm

John.

--
Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

--
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jaredprattfamily

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av jaredprattfamily » 20 jul 2007 14:12:39

John,

Just the answer I was looking for. Your help is very much
appreciated. I'm always grateful for the people who are willing to
explain the technical things to novices.

Allen

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av Allen » 20 jul 2007 16:00:45

John Hill wrote:
jaredprattfamily <jaredprattfamily@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a couple of questions about a GEDCOM file. First, if I export
from my PAF file and make a GEDCOM, each individual is given a unique
identifier number. If I then import that ged file into Rootsmagic (or
any other software) and add, edit and change some things, and then
reexport it as a GEDCOM, will the unique identifying numbers be the
same for each individual as in the original GEDCOM? If I added new
individuals, will they just get the next available number--for
example, if I had 2000 individuals in the first gedcom, added 5
individuals, would those individuals then be number 2001, 2002, 2003,
2004, and 2005 in the new GEDCOM?

Thanks, would really appreciate some help on this one!

Are you talking about the Unique Identifier Number, e.g.
_UID BEFE85BD28B311DC81E600039351C300D7BE,
or the individual number
@I4803@ INDI
?

The former is carried across to the new file and back again - it is, as
it claims to be, unique (as can be guessed from its length) and can be
used e.g. when merging people in a family file.

The latter is used internally in the linking of the GEDCOM, to link
parents to children etc., and is not normally copied into the new family
file. That is the case in Reunion, anyway - this uses its internal
PersonID for the INDI.

For example:

0 @I4803@ INDI
1 NAME Alfred /Simmonite/
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT MAR 1857
....

is used later ( HUSB, line 2):

0 @F3599@ FAM
1 HUSB @I4803@
1 WIFE @I5239@
1 MARR
2 DATE ABT DEC 1875
2 PLAC Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
2 SOUR @S96@
3 PAGE Marriages Dec 1875, Sheffield 9c 666
1 _UID 448DAC5CCE3011DBAC6900039351C30082BF
1 CHIL @I5245@
1 CHIL @I5240@
1 CHIL @I5241@
1 CHIL @I5242@
1 CHIL @I5243@
1 CHIL @I5244@
....

The numbers for the children appear as CHIL to link them in to the
family.

If you re-import the GEDCOM into the original file each person imported
is given a new PersonID which has nothing to do with the INDI. The
PersonID numbers just follow on in Reunion's private sequence (filling
in any gaps as it goes, so they are not necessarily even in continuous
sequence).

If you need to go into the GEDOM standard in depth, visit:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~pmcbride ... 5gctoc.htm

John.

I couldn't resist calculating the number of possible combinations of

that "Unique Identification Number". If I correctly counted the number
of characters (I got 36, not counting the UID and the blank following
it), the number of combination is roughly 3.60 followed by 37 zeroes, if
Excel can be trusted with numbers that large. This translates roughly
into the number of molecules in 7.3 billion pounds of water. It would be
incredible if two of these numbers were _not_ unique.
Disclaimer: this is all based on values remembered from 60 years ago.
Allen

Gjest

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 jul 2007 09:07:30

Allen wrote:

snip a lot

If you re-import the GEDCOM into the original file each person imported
is given a new PersonID which has nothing to do with the INDI. The
PersonID numbers just follow on in Reunion's private sequence (filling
in any gaps as it goes, so they are not necessarily even in continuous
sequence).

If you need to go into the GEDOM standard in depth, visit:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~pmcbride ... 5gctoc.htm

John.

I couldn't resist calculating the number of possible combinations of
that "Unique Identification Number". If I correctly counted the number
of characters (I got 36, not counting the UID and the blank following
it), the number of combination is roughly 3.60 followed by 37 zeroes, if
Excel can be trusted with numbers that large. This translates roughly
into the number of molecules in 7.3 billion pounds of water. It would be
incredible if two of these numbers were _not_ unique.

That is, if they have not fallen into the trap of assigning a meaning to
parts of the number. I remember a case where someone had to set up an
identification for electronic components. He came up with a 17 character
number (digits and literals), and got stuck with it in little more than a
year, because he had subdivided this number in subcategories , and ran out
of combinations in one of these subcategories

Disclaimer: this is all based on values remembered from 60 years ago.
Allen

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

John Hill

Re: Technical GEDCOM question

Legg inn av John Hill » 21 jul 2007 13:21:05

<herman.viaene@thuis.be> wrote:

Allen wrote:

snip a lot

If you re-import the GEDCOM into the original file each person imported
is given a new PersonID which has nothing to do with the INDI. The
PersonID numbers just follow on in Reunion's private sequence (filling
in any gaps as it goes, so they are not necessarily even in continuous
sequence).

If you need to go into the GEDOM standard in depth, visit:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~pmcbride ... 5gctoc.htm

John.

I couldn't resist calculating the number of possible combinations of
that "Unique Identification Number". If I correctly counted the number
of characters (I got 36, not counting the UID and the blank following
it), the number of combination is roughly 3.60 followed by 37 zeroes, if
Excel can be trusted with numbers that large. This translates roughly
into the number of molecules in 7.3 billion pounds of water. It would be
incredible if two of these numbers were _not_ unique.

That is, if they have not fallen into the trap of assigning a meaning to
parts of the number. I remember a case where someone had to set up an
identification for electronic components. He came up with a 17 character
number (digits and literals), and got stuck with it in little more than a
year, because he had subdivided this number in subcategories , and ran out
of combinations in one of these subcategories

Disclaimer: this is all based on values remembered from 60 years ago.
Allen

Reunion gives a link to Wilkpedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guid

where it is stated that :
A Globally Unique Identifier or GUID (IPA pronunciation: ['gu.?d] or
[gw?d]) is a special type of identifier used in software applications in
order to provide a reference number which is unique in the context for
which it is used, for example, in defining the internal reference for a
type of access point in a software application, or for creating unique
keys in a database. While each generated GUID is not guaranteed to be
unique, the total number of unique keys (2 to the power of 122 or 5.3 x 10
to the the power of 36) is so large that the probability of the same
number being generated twice is very small.

I do not know how the LDS implementation of UID is generated.

John.

--
Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

--
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