Translation
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Rob Gray
Translation
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
-
Robert Heiling
Re: Translation
Rob Gray wrote:
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
-
Rob Gray
Re: Translation
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below >>means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously
contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Thanks,
Can you tell me if this one below is also in the same two languages?
Rob
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
-
Robert Heiling
Re: Translation
Rob Gray wrote:
Line 1: a man from Skandel with his wife
Line 2: a man and his wife in the Skondol parish in Norway
Yes, but I blundered on the first because I read og as eg and ruling out Norsk
and not being very familiar with Dansk thought that's what it was. Both examples
are in Norwegian & German as far as I can tell. I'm certain that some of the
natives will speak up and comment of your other question.
Bob
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below >>means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously
contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Thanks,
Can you tell me if this one below is also in the same two languages?
Rob
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Line 1: a man from Skandel with his wife
Line 2: a man and his wife in the Skondol parish in Norway
Yes, but I blundered on the first because I read og as eg and ruling out Norsk
and not being very familiar with Dansk thought that's what it was. Both examples
are in Norwegian & German as far as I can tell. I'm certain that some of the
natives will speak up and comment of your other question.
Bob
-
Rob Gray
Re: Translation
Robert Heiling wrote:
Thanks for your responses! I have ancesters from Norway and I was
curious what these prints were....
Rob
Rob Gray wrote:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below >>means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously
contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Thanks,
Can you tell me if this one below is also in the same two languages?
Rob
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Line 1: a man from Skandel with his wife
Line 2: a man and his wife in the Skondol parish in Norway
Yes, but I blundered on the first because I read og as eg and ruling out Norsk
and not being very familiar with Dansk thought that's what it was. Both examples
are in Norwegian & German as far as I can tell. I'm certain that some of the
natives will speak up and comment of your other question.
Bob
Thanks for your responses! I have ancesters from Norway and I was
curious what these prints were....
Rob
-
Robert Heiling
Re: Translation
Rob Gray wrote:
Then stick around because this is a great group for Scandanavian research. Agershus is
mentioned quite frequently here by people researching their Norwegian ancestors and
there is a lot of information available. Give the group some names, birthdates, ages,
immigration dates etc to the best of your ability & knowledge and you could make some
progress.
Bob
Robert Heiling wrote:
Rob Gray wrote:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below >>means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously
contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Thanks,
Can you tell me if this one below is also in the same two languages?
Rob
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Line 1: a man from Skandel with his wife
Line 2: a man and his wife in the Skondol parish in Norway
Yes, but I blundered on the first because I read og as eg and ruling out Norsk
and not being very familiar with Dansk thought that's what it was. Both examples
are in Norwegian & German as far as I can tell. I'm certain that some of the
natives will speak up and comment of your other question.
Bob
Thanks for your responses! I have ancesters from Norway and I was
curious what these prints were....
Then stick around because this is a great group for Scandanavian research. Agershus is
mentioned quite frequently here by people researching their Norwegian ancestors and
there is a lot of information available. Give the group some names, birthdates, ages,
immigration dates etc to the best of your ability & knowledge and you could make some
progress.
Bob
-
Olaf
Re: [GEN-NORDIC] Translation
Hi Rob!
Agershus is the modern Akershus.
The Rejndalen is the modern Rendalen in Hedmark fylke.
It is now two parishes, Øvre and Ytre Rendal.
Obiously the Agerhus diocese was more extensive that the current Akershus
fylke.
Rendalen was part of Agershus Stift in the mid-17th century
Somewhere I've seen a map of those divisions but I can't find it now.
The fact of the German makes me certain the book your picture came from was
probably published in Denmark.
Olaf
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Agershus is the modern Akershus.
The Rejndalen is the modern Rendalen in Hedmark fylke.
It is now two parishes, Øvre and Ytre Rendal.
Obiously the Agerhus diocese was more extensive that the current Akershus
fylke.
Rendalen was part of Agershus Stift in the mid-17th century
Somewhere I've seen a map of those divisions but I can't find it now.
The fact of the German makes me certain the book your picture came from was
probably published in Denmark.
Olaf
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
-
Ivar Ståle Ertesvåg
- Innlegg: 4944
- Registrert: 12 des 2004 13:08:07
- Sted: TRONDHEIM
- Kontakt:
Re: Translation
Robert Heiling:
Some "native" comments:
The translations are - of course - correct.
Hamar diocese (bishopric; Oppland and Hedemark counties), which Rendalen
belongs to today, was established in 1863 (re-established, as it existed
before the reformation i 1537). Before, the two counties was part of
Kristiania diocese (Kristiania=Oslo; Akershus is the castle/fortress of
Oslo, used as name of the county around Oslo, and apparently sometimes
as name for the diocese)
This indicates a time limit for the text (although the publisher not
necessarily was updated on the organization of the church).
Skondøl or Skandøl parish is not known to me. (someone else?)
As a first guess, I would say these paintings (drawings?) are made in
the 1830s or 40s. (I do not know, just guess.)
I am not able to see any signature on prints. Are there any?
The enumerated prints appears to belong to a (or two different?) series.
One possibility is a work on Norwegian folk costumes issued by the
painter J. Frich in 1848. (Although he seemingly signed his paintings.)
there was, however, numerous others making such studies.
The German text can readily be explained. In Europe in the decades after
1820, there was a large interest in folklore, folk costumes, folk tales,
etc. This was the time of romanticism (and national romanticism). The
ultimate ideal was the people least influenced by the degrading
urbanism, civilication, etc. And thus, rural Norway (+ Sweden, Iceland)
gained considerable interest, especially in Germany, where they saw us
as the most pure and unspoiled germanics.
Rob Gray wrote:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below >>means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus bishopric".
The fact that the same saying is in both German & Danish would make me
suspect that it might be alluding to somewhere in the previously
contested
Schlesvig-Holstein area of Denmark.
Bob
Thanks,
Can you tell me if this one below is also in the same two languages?
Rob
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Line 1: a man from Skandel with his wife
Line 2: a man and his wife in the Skondol parish in Norway
Yes, but I blundered on the first because I read og as eg and ruling out Norsk
and not being very familiar with Dansk thought that's what it was. Both examples
are in Norwegian & German as far as I can tell. I'm certain that some of the
natives will speak up and comment of your other question.
Some "native" comments:
The translations are - of course - correct.
Hamar diocese (bishopric; Oppland and Hedemark counties), which Rendalen
belongs to today, was established in 1863 (re-established, as it existed
before the reformation i 1537). Before, the two counties was part of
Kristiania diocese (Kristiania=Oslo; Akershus is the castle/fortress of
Oslo, used as name of the county around Oslo, and apparently sometimes
as name for the diocese)
This indicates a time limit for the text (although the publisher not
necessarily was updated on the organization of the church).
Skondøl or Skandøl parish is not known to me. (someone else?)
As a first guess, I would say these paintings (drawings?) are made in
the 1830s or 40s. (I do not know, just guess.)
I am not able to see any signature on prints. Are there any?
The enumerated prints appears to belong to a (or two different?) series.
One possibility is a work on Norwegian folk costumes issued by the
painter J. Frich in 1848. (Although he seemingly signed his paintings.)
there was, however, numerous others making such studies.
The German text can readily be explained. In Europe in the decades after
1820, there was a large interest in folklore, folk costumes, folk tales,
etc. This was the time of romanticism (and national romanticism). The
ultimate ideal was the people least influenced by the degrading
urbanism, civilication, etc. And thus, rural Norway (+ Sweden, Iceland)
gained considerable interest, especially in Germany, where they saw us
as the most pure and unspoiled germanics.
-
pb
Re: Translation
"Rob Gray" <Slateman@epix.net> skrev i melding
news:9xWLd.232$3b.13784@news1.epix.net...
century, mostly educated in the German area. My best guess is Johannes
Flintoe. Three major books treating the Norwegian folk costumes (by
J.F.L.Dreier, G.C.C.W.Prahl and Chr. Toensberg) were published these years.
Your picture may originate from one of them. The German language merely
indicates the cultural/scientific sphere of interest of the Norwegian
intelligentia at that time (England was yet to be discovered
).
Per
Norway
news:9xWLd.232$3b.13784@news1.epix.net...
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
There are several Norwegian folklore painters in the first half of the 19th
century, mostly educated in the German area. My best guess is Johannes
Flintoe. Three major books treating the Norwegian folk costumes (by
J.F.L.Dreier, G.C.C.W.Prahl and Chr. Toensberg) were published these years.
Your picture may originate from one of them. The German language merely
indicates the cultural/scientific sphere of interest of the Norwegian
intelligentia at that time (England was yet to be discovered
Per
Norway
-
Rob Gray
Re: Translation
pb wrote:
Thank you for all of the responses! The other prints I have are shown in
the links below:
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print2.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print3.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Sincerely,
Rob Gray
(My Norwegian ancesters were named Jacobsen and Samuelsen)
"Rob Gray" <Slateman@epix.net> skrev i melding
news:9xWLd.232$3b.13784@news1.epix.net...
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
There are several Norwegian folklore painters in the first half of the 19th
century, mostly educated in the German area. My best guess is Johannes
Flintoe. Three major books treating the Norwegian folk costumes (by
J.F.L.Dreier, G.C.C.W.Prahl and Chr. Toensberg) were published these years.
Your picture may originate from one of them. The German language merely
indicates the cultural/scientific sphere of interest of the Norwegian
intelligentia at that time (England was yet to be discovered).
Per
Norway
Thank you for all of the responses! The other prints I have are shown in
the links below:
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print2.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print3.jpg
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print4.jpg
Sincerely,
Rob Gray
(My Norwegian ancesters were named Jacobsen and Samuelsen)
-
etos
Re: Translation
"pb" <per.bragstad@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:f0bMd.800$4c.106046@juliett.dax.net...
The printout is from "Johannes Senn, Norske Nationale Klædesdragter,
Kiøbenhavn 1812-1815".
eirik
news:f0bMd.800$4c.106046@juliett.dax.net...
"Rob Gray" <Slateman@epix.net> skrev i melding
news:9xWLd.232$3b.13784@news1.epix.net...
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
There are several Norwegian folklore painters in the first half of the
19th
century, mostly educated in the German area. My best guess is Johannes
Flintoe. Three major books treating the Norwegian folk costumes (by
J.F.L.Dreier, G.C.C.W.Prahl and Chr. Toensberg) were published these
years.
Your picture may originate from one of them. The German language merely
indicates the cultural/scientific sphere of interest of the Norwegian
intelligentia at that time (England was yet to be discovered).
The printout is from "Johannes Senn, Norske Nationale Klædesdragter,
Kiøbenhavn 1812-1815".
eirik
-
Rob Gray
Re: Translation
etos wrote:
Eirik,
Thank you for the information!
Rob Gray
"pb" <per.bragstad@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:f0bMd.800$4c.106046@juliett.dax.net...
"Rob Gray" <Slateman@epix.net> skrev i melding
news:9xWLd.232$3b.13784@news1.epix.net...
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below means
in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
There are several Norwegian folklore painters in the first half of the
19th
century, mostly educated in the German area. My best guess is Johannes
Flintoe. Three major books treating the Norwegian folk costumes (by
J.F.L.Dreier, G.C.C.W.Prahl and Chr. Toensberg) were published these
years.
Your picture may originate from one of them. The German language merely
indicates the cultural/scientific sphere of interest of the Norwegian
intelligentia at that time (England was yet to be discovered).
The printout is from "Johannes Senn, Norske Nationale Klædesdragter,
Kiøbenhavn 1812-1815".
eirik
Eirik,
Thank you for the information!
Rob Gray
-
Stein R
Re: Translation
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in
news:42003BD3.597FED43@comcast.net:
Akershus (old spelling Agershuus) has never been in the ex-
treme south of the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, on the border
with present day Germany. Agershuus (meaning the house/fortress
at Aker, ie Oslo) is the area east of Oslo in present day Norway.
These days Akershus is fairly small, but in the olden days,
the diocese/bishopric covered pretty much everything south of
Trondheim and east of the mountainous spine of Norway.
This must be quite a while back, judged by the spelling. So
this is probably Rendalen parish in present day Hedmark fylke
(province), between Oslo and Trondheim, not too far from the
city of Røros.
Smile,
Stein
news:42003BD3.597FED43@comcast.net:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below
means in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was
made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus
bishopric". The fact that the same saying is in both German
& Danish would make me suspect that it might be alluding to
somewhere in the previously contested Schlesvig-Holstein
area of Denmark.
Bob
Akershus (old spelling Agershuus) has never been in the ex-
treme south of the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, on the border
with present day Germany. Agershuus (meaning the house/fortress
at Aker, ie Oslo) is the area east of Oslo in present day Norway.
These days Akershus is fairly small, but in the olden days,
the diocese/bishopric covered pretty much everything south of
Trondheim and east of the mountainous spine of Norway.
This must be quite a while back, judged by the spelling. So
this is probably Rendalen parish in present day Hedmark fylke
(province), between Oslo and Trondheim, not too far from the
city of Røros.
Smile,
Stein
-
Robert Heiling
Re: Translation
Stein R wrote:
Hei Stein. I corrected that Denmark statement over 7 weeks ago.
That was explained also by others.
Bob
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in
news:42003BD3.597FED43@comcast.net:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below
means in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was
made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus
bishopric". The fact that the same saying is in both German
& Danish would make me suspect that it might be alluding to
somewhere in the previously contested Schlesvig-Holstein
area of Denmark.
Bob
Akershus (old spelling Agershuus) has never been in the ex-
treme south of the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, on the border
with present day Germany. Agershuus (meaning the house/fortress
at Aker, ie Oslo) is the area east of Oslo in present day Norway.
Hei Stein. I corrected that Denmark statement over 7 weeks ago.
These days Akershus is fairly small, but in the olden days,
the diocese/bishopric covered pretty much everything south of
Trondheim and east of the mountainous spine of Norway.
This must be quite a while back, judged by the spelling. So
this is probably Rendalen parish in present day Hedmark fylke
(province), between Oslo and Trondheim, not too far from the
city of Røros.
That was explained also by others.
Bob
-
Stein R
Re: Translation
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in news:423EE0DF.27259F59
@comcast.net:
Apparently that corrected post had timed out on my news server - I
only saw your incorrect answer from feb 2nd. Never mind - such are
the nature of newsgroups - propagation is uneven, and there is no
guarantee that all messages will be there in the right order on any
given newsserver at any given time
That's good. Thought I had read through all the answers still kept on
my local newsserver before following up myself, but better you get two
answers than none
Oh well, back to my own research, then.
Grin,
Stein
@comcast.net:
Stein R wrote:
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in
news:42003BD3.597FED43@comcast.net:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below
means in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was
made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus
bishopric". The fact that the same saying is in both German
& Danish would make me suspect that it might be alluding to
somewhere in the previously contested Schlesvig-Holstein
area of Denmark.
Bob
Akershus (old spelling Agershuus) has never been in the ex-
treme south of the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, on the border
with present day Germany. Agershuus (meaning the house/fortress
at Aker, ie Oslo) is the area east of Oslo in present day Norway.
Hei Stein. I corrected that Denmark statement over 7 weeks ago.
Apparently that corrected post had timed out on my news server - I
only saw your incorrect answer from feb 2nd. Never mind - such are
the nature of newsgroups - propagation is uneven, and there is no
guarantee that all messages will be there in the right order on any
given newsserver at any given time
These days Akershus is fairly small, but in the olden days,
the diocese/bishopric covered pretty much everything south of
Trondheim and east of the mountainous spine of Norway.
This must be quite a while back, judged by the spelling. So
this is probably Rendalen parish in present day Hedmark fylke
(province), between Oslo and Trondheim, not too far from the
city of Røros.
That was explained also by others.
That's good. Thought I had read through all the answers still kept on
my local newsserver before following up myself, but better you get two
answers than none
Oh well, back to my own research, then.
Grin,
Stein
-
Rob Gray
Re: Translation
Stein R wrote:
As a follow-up I received detailed information on my prints. They were
published by Johan Heinrich Senn in 1812. They are part of a full set
that shows various clothing and characteristics of people at the time
from all over Norway.
Regards,
Rob
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in news:423EE0DF.27259F59
@comcast.net:
Stein R wrote:
Robert Heiling <robheil@comcast.net> wrote in
news:42003BD3.597FED43@comcast.net:
Rob Gray wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the writing on the document linked below
means in English? Also, does anyone know about when/where it was
made?
Thank you in advance for any ideas.
http://home.epix.net/~robgray/temp/print1.jpg
Rob
USA
Simply "man & wife of the Rejndalen parish in the Agershuus
bishopric". The fact that the same saying is in both German
& Danish would make me suspect that it might be alluding to
somewhere in the previously contested Schlesvig-Holstein
area of Denmark.
Bob
Akershus (old spelling Agershuus) has never been in the ex-
treme south of the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, on the border
with present day Germany. Agershuus (meaning the house/fortress
at Aker, ie Oslo) is the area east of Oslo in present day Norway.
Hei Stein. I corrected that Denmark statement over 7 weeks ago.
Apparently that corrected post had timed out on my news server - I
only saw your incorrect answer from feb 2nd. Never mind - such are
the nature of newsgroups - propagation is uneven, and there is no
guarantee that all messages will be there in the right order on any
given newsserver at any given time
These days Akershus is fairly small, but in the olden days,
the diocese/bishopric covered pretty much everything south of
Trondheim and east of the mountainous spine of Norway.
This must be quite a while back, judged by the spelling. So
this is probably Rendalen parish in present day Hedmark fylke
(province), between Oslo and Trondheim, not too far from the
city of Røros.
That was explained also by others.
That's good. Thought I had read through all the answers still kept on
my local newsserver before following up myself, but better you get two
answers than none
Oh well, back to my own research, then.
Grin,
Stein
As a follow-up I received detailed information on my prints. They were
published by Johan Heinrich Senn in 1812. They are part of a full set
that shows various clothing and characteristics of people at the time
from all over Norway.
Regards,
Rob