Tracking farm ownership in the early 1700's

[Thad Carlson]

Hello,

I have ancestors in Aurland parish of Sogn og Fjordane county that I want to find land ownership records. I have searched through the indexed databases on Digitalarkivet but could not find any answers.

For example, one of my great uncles lived on Li Ytre in Aurland from 1729 up to his death in 1784. Since he lived there at least 56 years, it seems likely that he was the farmer. However, when I searched for either Lasse Siversen or Li/Lie Ytre/Yttre in the database, no appropriate records came up.

Is there a way to tell who had ownership of the Li Ytre farm in any specific year? I would like to find out if Lasse Siversen bought this farm, if he inherited it from his father, or if he moved there to join his wife's family.

I am new to many of the databases on Digitalarkivet, so any help or advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[dn07176]

Most of the real estate records from this period are not digitized (full-text), so you would have to dive into the old handwritten scanned protocols you find under "Skannede tinglysingsdokumenter" here: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read

In there you can find the main records - the Pantebok - and if you're lucky some indices to the records - the Panteregister.

The index would list any property transactions for each farm/property chronologically with a reference to where the transaction could be found in the Pantebok. The Pantebok records are listed chronologically for any transaction in the area (Aurland would be in the Indre Sogn area of Sogn og Fjordane county)

It seems the digitized (scanned) Panteregister for this area start around 1829, so finding your way through the Pantebok (which is scanned back to 1733) would require a lot of work... It might be worth checking with the national archives if there are indices available that have not been scanned yet, as that would save you a lot of work searching...

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Lasse Siversen and Randi Larsdatter on the "Ekstraskatten" (Extra tax) 1762-1769
He is a "self owner" of one of the 4 farm units at Ytre Lie

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Sogn fogderi, Ekstraskatt 3418 (RA/EA-4092/R52/L3418), 1762-1769, oppb: Riksarkivet.
Merknader: Ekstraskatt 1762-1772, se også kat. nr. 1145/51.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/47516/166/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 030255.jpg

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

Most of the real estate records from this period are not digitized (full-text), so you would have to dive into the old handwritten scanned protocols you find under "Skannede tinglysingsdokumenter" here: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read

In there you can find the main records - the Pantebok - and if you're lucky some indices to the records - the Panteregister.

The index would list any property transactions for each farm/property chronologically with a reference to where the transaction could be found in the Pantebok. The Pantebok records are listed chronologically for any transaction in the area (Aurland would be in the Indre Sogn area of Sogn og Fjordane county)

It seems the digitized (scanned) Panteregister for this area start around 1829, so finding your way through the Pantebok (which is scanned back to 1733) would require a lot of work... It might be worth checking with the national archives if there are indices available that have not been scanned yet, as that would save you a lot of work searching...

Thank you, Håvard. I will try contacting the National Archives as you suggest.

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Thad Carlson]

Lasse Siversen and Randi Larsdatter on the "Ekstraskatten" (Extra tax) 1762-1769
He is a "self owner" of one of the 4 farm units at Ytre Lie

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Sogn fogderi, Ekstraskatt 3418 (RA/EA-4092/R52/L3418), 1762-1769, oppb: Riksarkivet.
Merknader: Ekstraskatt 1762-1772, se også kat. nr. 1145/51.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/47516/166/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 030255.jpg

Tove DJ

Thank you, Tove. Once again you are a great help!

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Ivar Ståle Ertesvåg]

It seems the digitized (scanned) Panteregister for this area start around 1829, so finding your way through the Pantebok (which is scanned back to 1733) would require a lot of work... It might be worth checking with the national archives if there are indices available that have not been scanned yet, as that would save you a lot of work searching...

The mortgage book ("pantebok") protocols for Indre Sogn are here:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... arch=&js=j

They starts in 1733. In the two first, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... dx_side=-1 (II.b.1. 1733-1745) and http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... dx_side=-1 (II.b.2. 1734-1751) har a remark: "register på kort" meaning index on cards. I assume this means that the archive has made a registry on (paper) cards. The relevant archive is the State Archives in Bergen.

In the third, there is an index in the protocol itself. The protocol is split into two volumes,
II.B.3a (fol. 1-431) and II.B.3b (fol.432-860) The index starts at fol. 708, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-232

The fourth is also split, and the index starts at fol. 495. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-207

For No. 5 there is an index on cards, so also for No. 6.

For No. 7, there is a "Laust register" (loose index); which seems to mean that the register is a separate document. Anyhow it is scanned together with the protocol, and starts here: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-387

No. 8 starts in 1829, and should be covered by the "Panteregister", as Håvard explains.

[Thad Carlson]

It seems the digitized (scanned) Panteregister for this area start around 1829, so finding your way through the Pantebok (which is scanned back to 1733) would require a lot of work... It might be worth checking with the national archives if there are indices available that have not been scanned yet, as that would save you a lot of work searching...

The mortgage book ("pantebok") protocols for Indre Sogn are here:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... arch=&js=j

They starts in 1733. In the two first, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... dx_side=-1 (II.b.1. 1733-1745) and http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... dx_side=-1 (II.b.2. 1734-1751) har a remark: "register på kort" meaning index on cards. I assume this means that the archive has made a registry on (paper) cards. The relevant archive is the State Archives in Bergen.

In the third, there is an index in the protocol itself. The protocol is split into two volumes,
II.B.3a (fol. 1-431) and II.B.3b (fol.432-860) The index starts at fol. 708, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-232

The fourth is also split, and the index starts at fol. 495. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-207

For No. 5 there is an index on cards, so also for No. 6.

For No. 7, there is a "Laust register" (loose index); which seems to mean that the register is a separate document. Anyhow it is scanned together with the protocol, and starts here: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-387

No. 8 starts in 1829, and should be covered by the "Panteregister", as Håvard explains.

Thank you, Ivar! I will contact the State Archives in Bergen as you suggest. I am interested in the date and terms for which the Li Yttre farm was transferred to Lasse Sjursen.

Does anyone know what the four smaller farms under Li were called? Was Li Yttre one of the smaller farms, or was that the name of the larger farm?

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

There is a document (a deed of conveyance) here in the "pantebok" on page 234, I have not studied it all, but as I understand Lasse Siursen (Siversen) from Indre Lie is buying a part of Ytre Lie.
Seller is Peder Aslachssøn.
Price is 45 riksdaler.

Kildeinformasjon: Protokollnummer: II.B.1a, Sted: Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Oppbevaringssted: SAB
Merknader: Register
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660235.jpg
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-218

I had expected that Aurland would be found in the mortgage books for "Indre Sogn", but it was "Ytre Sogn"

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

There is a document (a deed of conveyance) here in the "pantebok" on page 234, I have not studied it all, but as I understand Lasse Siversen from Indre Lie is buying a part of Ytre Lie.
Seller is Peder Aslachssøn.
Price is 45 riksdaler.

Kildeinformasjon: Protokollnummer: II.B.1a, Sted: Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Oppbevaringssted: SAB
Merknader: Register
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660235.jpg
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?i ... _side=-218

I had expected that Aurland would be in the mortgage books for "Indre Sogn", but it was "Ytre Sogn"

Tove DJ

This is great news, Tove! I have long been in search of the father of Lasse Siversen and his brother Knud Siversen. Lasse was born about 1702 and Knud was born about 1703. There were eight Sivers in the 1701 census, but I could not figure out which was the father of Lasse and Knud. One of those Sivers in the 1701 census was living on Indre Lie at the time of the 1701 census - Siver Larsen. So, if Lasse came FROM Indre Lie when he purchased Lie Yttre, it seems reasonable that Siver Larsen from Indre Lie was his father. Does that sound correct?

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

Did Lasse Siversen have a sister Giertrud Siversdatter, living on Indre Lie? (number 31 in Ekstraskatten. You can take a look at it)

Indre Lie is located in Flåm.

Tove

[Thad Carlson]

Hello

Did Lasse Siversen have a sister Giertrud Siversdatter, living on Indre Lie?

Tove DJ

I do not know. I only know that Lasse and Knud were brothers.


~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

There is a probate record for a Siur (Siver) Larsen on Indre Lie, I had a quick look at it. Seems he had only two daughters. He died about 1707, can take another look at it tomorrow.

I send you the link (179 a)

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 2a , 1702-1707, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 1-288.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24155/81/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 690305.jpg

Tove

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

You probably have this already:

Wife Randi Larsdatter died in 1766 leaving behind the widower Lasse Siursen and one child, a daughter INGERI.
Randi's father was Lars Johanesen Thurelie

Ingeri was named after the wife Ingeri Olsdatter who died in 1759 leaving behind the widower Lasse Siursen and two daughters: Ingeborg married to Ole Pedersen Ytre Lie and Giørj (?)Lassesdatter (27 y.o.)

Tove DJ

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

Have looked some more at the probate record for Siur Larsen at Indre Lie dated 22nd April and I think the year must be 1704.

His widow was Ingeborg Ellingdatter.
Two daughters Elli (3 y.o.) and Gjertru(d) (1 y.o.)

This is probably the Giertrud who is listed on Indre Lie in connection with "Ekstraskatten"

Their father's brother Johannes Larsen was acting on the childrens' behalf.

A previous marriage is not mentioned. So I am uncertain about this Siur / Siver Larsen at Indre Lie.

I don't have access to the Aurland bygdebok.

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

You probably have this already:

Wife Randi Larsdatter died in 1766 leaving behind the widower Lasse Siursen and one child, a daughter INGERI.
Randi's father was Lars Johanesen Thurelie

Ingeri was named after the wife Ingeri Olsdatter who died in 1759 leaving behind the widower Lasse Siursen and two daughters: Ingeborg married to Ole Pedersen Ytre Lie and Giørj (?)Lassesdatter (27 y.o.)

Tove DJ

Hello Tove,

This is what I know of Lasse Siversen from Indre Lie: He was married three times and had children from each wife.

He married Ingeri Olsdatter from Berekvam on 28 Nov 1728 and they had two children: Ingebor (born 1729) and Giøri (born 1731). Ingeri died in 1758.

He then married Randi Larsdatter from Turli on 29 Oct 1759. From what I can tell, they only had one child named after Lasse's first wife: Ingeri (born 1760). Randi Larsdatter died in 1766.

Lasse then married Inga Thorgersdatter on 23 Nov 1767. From what I can tell, they had two children: first male child from any marriage named Siver born 1771, and a daughter named after his last deceased wife named Randi born 1775.

Thanks again for your help!

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

Yes, the information you have is the same as I can find in the probate records. There are probates after the wives Ingeborg and Randi.

There is also in Aurland a Peder Sjursen (Siversen) who could be a brother of Knud Sjursen and Lasse Sjursen. They are godparents to each others children.

There is also a Tora Sjursdatter who is a godparent.

However - Sjur / Siver is a name that was much used in Aurland.

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

Hello

Yes, the information you have is the same as I can find in the probate records. There are probates after the wives Ingeborg and Randi.

There is also in Aurland a Peder Sjursen (Siversen) who could be a brother of Knud Sjursen and Lasse Sjursen. They are godparents to each others children.

There is also a Tora Sjursdatter who is a godparent.

However - Sjur / Siver is a name that was much used in Aurland.

Tove DJ

Thanks again, Tove. Did the probate record for Siver Larsen say what farm his brother Johannes Larsen was from? There seems to be three different characters named Johannes Larsen in Aurland from the 1701 census: one living on Flomb, one living on Frettemb, and another living on Bielde.

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

Yes, it was Johannes Larsen Frettem.

Flom and Frettem (Fretheim) are neighbour farms.

About Ytre Lie - that will be the name of the whole farm.

Tove DJ

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

Found something in the Aurland parish records.

There is a Lasse Siursen who was married to Ingeborg Rognaldsdatter on Fastelavnssøndag = 8th February 1728

Kjeldeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Aurland, Ministerialbok nr. A 1 (1716-1734), Kronologisk liste 1728, side 51.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-53
Permanent biletlenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660720.jpg

Found on the forum of Arkivverket that the father of this Lasse Siursen (which must be another Lasse Siursen) was Siur Torbjørnsen Skaim who died 1737, 89 years old.

This Lasse Siursen had children Siur (1727), Rognvald (1729), Ole (1731), Torbiør (1732), Ingeborg (1737-1742), Hans (1743), Anna (1746) and Ingeborg (1748). The last three children were born in Askøy, the other children in Aurland.

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

Hello

Found something in the Aurland parish records.

There is a Lasse Siursen who was married to Ingeborg Rognaldsdatter on Fastelavnssøndag = 8th February 1728

Kjeldeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Aurland, Ministerialbok nr. A 1 (1716-1734), Kronologisk liste 1728, side 51.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-53
Permanent biletlenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660720.jpg

Found on the forum of Arkivverket that the father of this Lasse Siursen (which must be another Lasse Siursen) was Siur Torbjørnsen Skaim who died 1737, 89 years old.

This Lasse Siursen had children Siur (1727), Rognvald (1729), Ole (1731), Torbiør (1732), Ingeborg (1737-1742), Hans (1743), Anna (1746) and Ingeborg (1748). The last three children were born in Askøy, the other children in Aurland.

Tove DJ

Hello Tove!

Yes, I also saw this 2nd Lasse in the marriage record database. He is not the correct Lasse, as the Lasse that is brother to my Knud lived on Li yttre. That's what it says in one of the Aurland bygdeboks.

Thank you for sharing what this Lasse's father's name is. There were only 12 Sivers in the 1701 census that could be father to Knud and Lasse. Of those twelve, eight remain as possibilities. Here are those 12 Sivers from the 1701 census:

1 - Siver Andersen, age 23, Qvamme farm #5, Vangen, Aurland

2 - Siver Knudsen, age 26, Weem farm #18, Vangen, Aurland

3 - Siver Endresen, age 45, Giedsmed farm #42, Flåm, Aurland

4 - Siver Siversen, age 35, Tunshele farm #44, Flåm, Aurland

5 - Siver Pedersen, age 22, Underal farm #51, Undredal, Aurland

6 - Siver Knudsen, age 36, Hylleland farm #50, Undredal, Aurland

7 - Siver Arnesen, age 36, Diurdahl farm #67, Nærøy, Aurland

8 - Siver Larsen, age 15, Gudvang farm #64, Nærøy, Aurland

NO - Siver Torbensen, age 35, Skaaiem farm #13, Vangen, Aurland. Was the father of the 2nd Lasse Sjursen in Aurland.

NO - Siver Tostensen, age 63, Weem farm #18, Vangen, Aurland. Died in 1710; no children were mentioned in his probate.

NO - Siver Elendsen, age 45, Bache farm #49, Flåm, Aurland. Died in 1719; his probate only mentions his wife and their two daughters: Ingeborg and Groe.

NO - Siver Larsen, age 46, Inderlie farm #39, Flåm, Aurland. Died in 1704, his probate says he had only two daughters.

You previously mentioned that there was a Peder Sjursen that may be a brother to Knud and Lasse, as he was a god parent in a few of their children's baptism records. Did those records say who this Peder was married to, or what farm he was on at the time? I want to see if I can figure out how old he is and who this Peder's family is. He must have been born after the 1701 census.


~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

I will see if there are any probate records which could eliminate some more Sivers / Sjurs.

There are two in Nærøy - I don't think they are the most likely candidates.

And maybe not those from Undredal either. But there are still some left.

At the probate after Siver Tostensen Weem in April 1710 no children are mentioned

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 2b , 1707-1719, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 289-ut.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24156/89/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 690504.jpg

At the probate after Siver Ellingsen (Elendsen) Bache in 1719 there were his wife and their two daughters: Ingeborg and Groe

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 2b , 1707-1719, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 289-ut.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24156/249/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 690664.jpg

So those two can be eliminated.

Unfortunately there is not probates for everybody.

Tove DJ

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

I will also try to check probates at Weem (Veim), Giedsmed (Geisme) and Tunshelle.

Can there are probates at those farms after women. They could have been wives of Siver / Sjur

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

I will also try to check probates at Weem (Veim), Giedsmed (Geisme) and Tunshelle.

Can there are probates at those farms after women. They could have been wives of Siver / Sjur

Tove DJ

Thank you, Tove! This is very exciting!


~ Thad Carlson

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

I did not find any widower named Siver / Sjur in those probates I looked up.

You asked about Peder Sjursen, it was Peder Sjursen Melhuus who was married to Inger Olsdatter.
There is a probate in 1786 after him and his wife
They had 6 children:
Son Sjur Pedersen Indre-Lie
Son Erich Pedersen Melhuus
Son Lars Pedersen Melhuus
Daughter Ragnilde, dead, two children: Ellend Larssen Thunshellen (8 y.o.) and Peder Larssen (6 y.o.)
Daughter Brithe Pedersdatter married to Tosten Olsen Flom
Daughter Aase Pedersdatter 28 y.o.

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 10a , 1783-1786, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 1-357.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24168/329/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 610332.jpg

Peder Sjursen was born approximately 1712.

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

I did not find any widower named Siver / Sjur in those probates I looked up.

You asked about Peder Sjursen, it was Peder Sjursen Melhuus who was married to Inger Olsdatter.
There is a probate in 1786 after him and his wife
They had 6 children:
Son Sjur Pedersen Indre-Lie
Son Erich Pedersen Melhuus
Son Lars Pedersen Melhuus
Daughter Ragnilde, dead, two children: Ellend Larssen Thunshellen (8 y.o.) and Peder Larssen (6 y.o.)
Daughter Brithe Pedersdatter married to Tosten Olsen Flom
Daughter Aase Pedersdatter 28 y.o.

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 10a , 1783-1786, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 1-357.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24168/329/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 610332.jpg

Peder Sjursen was born approximately 1712.

Tove DJ

Thank you, Tove. It helps to know that Peder was younger than Knud and Lasse, if he does turn up to be in this family. I didn't find a probate for either Knud Sjursen from Tero or Lasse Sjursen from Indre Lie. Is that correct?

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

[Thad Carlson]

I did not find any widower named Siver / Sjur in those probates I looked up.

You asked about Peder Sjursen, it was Peder Sjursen Melhuus who was married to Inger Olsdatter.
There is a probate in 1786 after him and his wife
They had 6 children:
Son Sjur Pedersen Indre-Lie
Son Erich Pedersen Melhuus
Son Lars Pedersen Melhuus
Daughter Ragnilde, dead, two children: Ellend Larssen Thunshellen (8 y.o.) and Peder Larssen (6 y.o.)
Daughter Brithe Pedersdatter married to Tosten Olsen Flom
Daughter Aase Pedersdatter 28 y.o.

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 10a , 1783-1786, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Fol. 1-357.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24168/329/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 610332.jpg

Peder Sjursen was born approximately 1712.

Tove DJ

What a surprise, Tove! This Peder Sjursen Melhuss (1712-1786) who married Inga Olsdatter is also one of my ancestors. Peder is another of my 5th great grandfathers. His daughter Brithe Pedersdatter was my 4th great grandmother.

~ Thad

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Yes, Aurland is not a very big place. Everybody was related to each other in some way or other.

There was a probate after Brithe Pedersdatter Thunshelle (Tunshelle). It was started 26th October 1809 and finished 18th June 1810.
She left the widower Thosten Olsen Thunshelle, two sons and two daughters.

Oldest son: Peder Thostensen, married, living at Thunshelle - 22 years old
Youngest son: Peder Thostensen ("the younger") - 19 1/2 years old
Oldest daughter Inger Thostensdatter - 26 years old
Youngest daughter Ellie - 17 years old

Don't know why they have two sons named Peder -

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 14 , 1809-1813, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Register.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24174/130/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 630130.jpg

There is also a probate after Tosten Olsen Thunshelle in November 1832.
Peder Tostensen (the older) must be dead. His children are listed.
Then there were Peder Tostensen Thunshelle, Inga Tostensdatter Thunshelle and Eli Tostensdatter married to Ellef Larsen Kaardal

Tove DJ

[Thad Carlson]

Yes, Aurland is not a very big place. Everybody was related to each other in some way or other.

There was a probate after Brithe Pedersdatter Thunshelle (Tunshelle). It was started 26th October 1809 and finished 18th June 1810.
She left the widower Thosten Olsen Thunshelle, two sons and two daughters.

Oldest son: Peder Thostensen, married, living at Thunshelle - 22 years old
Youngest son: Peder Thostensen ("the younger") - 19 1/2 years old
Oldest daughter Inger Thostensdatter - 26 years old
Youngest daughter Ellie - 17 years old

Don't know why they have two sons named Peder -

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 14 , 1809-1813, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Register.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24174/130/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 630130.jpg

There is also a probate after Tosten Olsen Thunshelle in November 1832.
Peder Tostensen (the older) must be dead. His children are listed.
Then there were Peder Tostensen Thunshelle, Inga Tostensdatter Thunshelle and Eli Tostensdatter married to Ellef Larsen Kaardal

Tove DJ

Thank you for the probate record for Brithe. Brithe and Tosten also had a son named Ole that was baptized 12 Feb 1785 and buried 09 Nov 1800 in addition to the children listed in the probate. I also had two children with the same or similar names. I thought one was Peer and the other Peder. Their youngest child, Eli (1792-1878), was my 3rd great grandmother.

Is this the probate for Tosten Olsen?

Source information: Sogn og Fjordane county, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 3b , 1728-1733, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Permanent page-link: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24158/96/

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Here is the probate for Tosten Olsen Thunshelle in November 1832

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 18 , 1828-1833, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Register.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24178/385/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660387.jpg

The children of the Peder Tostensen who had died (must have been Peder the older) were:

Tosten Pedersen Thunshelle
Thrond Pedersen Thunshelle
Ole Pedersen Thunshelle
Mons Pedersen Thunshelle
Brithe Pedersdatter Thunshelle
Marthe Pedersdatter Thunshelle

Your Ellef Larsen Kaardal is guardian for Brithe and Marthe.

Tove DJ

[gj11938]

Why two sons had the name Peder:
They used to name the new borns after the last one who died in the family.
Either there were two Peders who died, or the first Peder child died and another son was born so he got the name Peder after his brother who died.

[Thad Carlson]

Here is the probate for Tosten Olsen Thunshelle in November 1832

Kildeinformasjon: Sogn og Fjordane fylke, Ytre Sogn sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll A 18 , 1828-1833, oppb: Statsarkivet i Bergen.
Merknader: Register.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24178/385/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660387.jpg

The children of the Peder Tostensen who had died (must have been Peder the older) were:

Tosten Pedersen Thunshelle
Thrond Pedersen Thunshelle
Ole Pedersen Thunshelle
Mons Pedersen Thunshelle
Brithe Pedersdatter Thunshelle
Marthe Pedersdatter Thunshelle

Your Ellef Larsen Kaardal is guardian for Brithe and Marthe.

Tove DJ

Thanks again, Tove! I hope you are having a great summer!

[Thad Carlson]

Why two sons had the name Peder:
They used to name the new borns after the last one who died in the family.
Either there were two Peders who died, or the first Peder child died and another son was born so he got the name Peder after his brother who died.

Thank you, Nora. It looks like both sons named Peder were alive at the same time - according to the probate record. That seems unusual from what I have seen.

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

It was not that unusual. If they followed the naming traditions and both grandfathers - or both grandmothers - had the same name you could have two brothers or two sisters with the same name.

Don't think that was the case with Peder.

Since so many children at that time never grew up, maybe they used the same name for two children, hoping that at least one of them would grow up.

Tove