Query: John Butler (le Botiller) and Campsall, co. Yorks.

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Query: John Butler (le Botiller) and Campsall, co. Yorks.

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 des 2004 18:51:01

Sunday, 12 December, 2004


Hello All,

The account in CP concerning Edmund le Botiller, or Butler of
Thurles, Governor and Justiciar of Ireland (d. 13 Sept 1321)
states the following concerning his marital affairs:

' He m., 1302, Joan, da. of John (Fitz Thomas Fitz Gerald),
1st Earl of Kildare [I.], by Blanche, da. of John Roche, of
Fermoy. He d. ....... ' [1]

There is no reference to any other marriage on the part of
Edmund. Rosie Bevan has kindly shared the following fines which
on first glance appeared to me to indicate a 2nd wife Joan for
Edmund, but which on further analysis does not support this
assumption.

However, these fines do indicate that Edmund le Botiller had
a son John Butler, or le Botiller, who was married to Joan,
evidently a daughter of Nicholas de Sutton and his wife Joan.

"54 York. Quindene of St John Baptist, 8 Edw III 1334. Octave of
Martinmas, 8 Edw. III, 1334.
Nicholas de Sutton and Joan his wife, quer., Robert de
Kelkefield and Richard de Beauvayr, def., of 6 messuages, 101
acres of land, and 15s. 8d. rent in Estryngton, Nuland, Laxton,
Kilpyn, Skelton, Houeden and Balkholm: To hold to Nicholas and
Joan and the heirs male of their bodies; remainder to John son of
Edmund le Botiller and Joan his wife and the heirs of their
bodies; remainder to the right heirs of Nicholas."

"13. York. Quindene of Hilary, 10 Edw III, 1336. Quindene of
Easter, 10 Edw. III, 1336.
Nicholas Sutton, quer., Thomas de Brayton, John de Askham and
David de Walloure, def., of lands etc in Campsale, Sutton and
Askern. Nicholas de Sutton, quer., Thomas de Brayton, John de
Askham, and David de Walloure, def., of 15 messuages, 7 tofts,
11 bovates of land, 6 acres of meadow, 3 acres of turbary and
53s. rent in Campsale, Sutton, and Askern: to hold to Nicholas
and the heirs male of his body; remainder to John de Brayton and
Elizabeth his wife and the heirs of their bodies; remainder to
John le Botiller and Joan his wife and the heirs of their bodies;
remainder to the right heirs of Nicholas."

"22 York, Month of Michaelmas, 2 Edw III, 1328
William de Sutton, parson of the chapel of
Sutton-in-Holdernesse, quer., Nicholas de Sutton and Beatrice his
wife, def., of 3 tofts, 2 bovates of land, and 10 acres of
meadow, in Sutton-in-Holdernesse: To hold to William for life, of
Nicholas and Beatrice and the heirs of Nicholas, paying yearly
one rose at the Nativity of St John the Baptist for all service
to them, and doing all services due to the chief lords; reversion
to Nicholas and Beatrice and the heirs of Nicholas."

The reference to lands in Campsall, co. Yorks. does appear to
suggest some relationship to the Newmarch (de Novo mercato)
family of Yorkshire. Another reference noted by Rosie:

" DL 25/2145 : full details
Sibyl late the wife of Simon de Askerne to Joan late the wife
of Sir Adam de Newmarch (novo mercato) and Henry de Lascy, Earl
of Lincoln: Quitclaim of her right in a messuage in Campsall of
which she impleaded the said Dame Joan before the Justices of
York: (Yorks, W.
1294 "

This provides evidence either of (1) a wife of Sir Adam de
Newmarch subsequent to his known wife Elizabeth (or Isabel) de
Mowbray, or (2) that Sir Adam had a son Adam, not previously
identified, who was succeeded by Sir Adam's son (younger son?)
Roger de Newmarch of Bentley and Campsall.

Should anyone have further information or documentation
bearing on the above, that would be most interesting, and
appreciated.

Cheers,

John








NOTES

[1] CP II:450, sub Butler.

David Hepworth

Re: Query: John Butler (le Botiller) and Campsall, co. Yorks

Legg inn av David Hepworth » 17 des 2004 12:04:42

John, hopefully over this weekend, I should be able to find my
Yorkshire Butler files - I believe (off the top of my head at this
stage) that your Butler is related to the Skelbrook Butler family, who
later took on the Saville name.... hopefully I should be able to get
the material into a sensible form with supporting references for you
over the weekend.

Cheers

David

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