Hans Hemansen (Hermundsen) and Helma Oien

[gj14879]

Hello everyone!

I am hoping someone can help me. I am researching the following people who settled in Minneapolis, Minnesota in 1906.



Hans Jorgen Hermansen, (or Hermunds., which is the name listed on "Emigrater fra Trondheim 1867-1930, when he emigrated to US, on February 6, 1906):

Arrived in New York on February 22, 1906 on the ship Hellig Olav. He lists his last address as " Thjem f Buknes", Norway. His occupation is laborer and birth year is 1872. (I have this document)

He is listed on the 1910 and 1920 US census. On both documents he states his birth year is 1872, his occupation is laborer and he married Hilma in 1905 in Norway. (I have these documents also.)

He does not show up on any 1930 US census with that name. So he essentially disappears.

My questions are:

1.) Can some one locate his birth records, his actual birth date and parent’s names? He told family he was born in Trondheim and his father’s name was Herman Hansen ??(not confirmed).

2) Can it be verified that his actual occupation in Norway was fisherman?
( I do know that before he left Tronhiem for USA, he was a city worker.)

3) Also, I have a suspicion that he actually went back to Norway, but I cannot confirm.

4) Confirm his Marriage to Helma Claudna Olien in 1905? (Marriage possibly took place in Tronhiem)

Helma Claudina Hermansen.

Maiden name is Oien. Birth: 12-28-1884???? in Kristiansund, Norway.

Father’s name: Matrin Marius Oien ???(not confirmed)

Mother’s name: Margaretha Vinge ???(not confirmed)



Can anyone verify this information? I know this is a lot to ask. But any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for taking the time to read this.

Mary

[gj10822]

Marriage of Hans Jørgen Hermansen og Helma Claudine Øyen 24/7 1904
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/We ... =4454#ovre

Hans Jørgen Hermansen in Buksnæs ft 1975
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcen ... =2589#ovre

Hans Jørgen Hermansen born 14/4 1871 nr 28

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-98

[Marit Lorvik Sørli]

Helma Klaudine , born December 28. 1884, Kristiansund
(Nr. 51 - girls ) Confirmed baptism April 19. 1885
Book damaged by fire....
Kildeinformasjon: Møre og Romsdal fylke, Kristiansund i Kristiansund, Ministerialbok nr. 572A13 (1880-1888), Fødte og døpte 1885, side 106.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-113

[gj14879]

Thanks for the information on Hans Hermundsan. I have spent alot of time going over it and now am wondering a few things.
1. On the 1875 census it lists Han's father's (Hermund Marthin Hermandsen) occupation as "Inderst Dagarbeider Jordarbeide". What is the Enlish translation? (Earth mover??)
2. On the 1875 census under Fam. stilling for Hermund Marthin Hermandsen it lists "Husfader% Logerende%. What is the English translation? (House father/logists???)
3. I now know that Hans was born in Buksnas and he eventualy ended up in Trondhiem to marry Helma in 1904. Is it possilbe the whole family moved to Tronhiem or did they stay and only Hans moved? Is there a 1900 census that shows where the family and Hans were during this time?
4. Hans told family that he was a fisherman in Norway. Is there any data to confirm this occupation? Or was he just making up a story?
5. Any data to show that he returned to Norway after 1920?

With your help, our family is really getting a better understanding of his life in Norway.
Thanks in adance,
Mary

[Marit Lorvik Sørli]

I will try to explain :
1. Dagarbeider = dayworker , landarbeider = working on the land or in the fields (for the farmer)
2. Husfader = Father of the house / family , logerende = lodger at the house , tennant

Census 1900 Buksnes :
Parents Herman Hermansen and mother Cæcilie Kristoffersdatter and brother Andreas Hermansen still is Buksnes :
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/we ... =5341#ovre

[gj14879]

Thank you for the baptismal record.

1) From Helda's Marriage and Baptismal record I see that her Father's name was Martin Haagensen Oien. Can you make out what her mother's name was?

2)Can you tell me what church in Kristiansund she was baptized in?

3) Helma states on her immigration records that they will be staying with a sister (in-law) in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The name given is Julie Iversen. Is it possible that Helma had a sister named Julia who imagrated to the USA?

4) "Losarbeider" and "Losarbeider, hodesamier Jordlos Husmand" is listed on a 1900 census for occupations of a son and a father. Can you translate this for me?

Again, I really appreciate all your answers.

Mary

[Marit Lorvik Sørli]

Helma :
She was born out of wedlock, but I can only read about mother "Deaf widow Marg.........."
About father it says : " Bachelor worker Martin Haagen............"

[Knut Ragnar Ansnes]

Mary,
1. what we may read is her christian name, probably Margrethe, but also that she was deaf-and-dumb. And that she was a widow, having the baby Helma with a still unmarried man.
I think we may find said Margrethe in the 1865 census for Kristiansund:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... =2495#ovre
Margrethe Olsdatter, deaf-and-dumb from the age of 5.Living with her mother Guri Olsdatter Winge. Married, but husband not present/not mentioned.
2. I think you have the approximately correct translation.
3. needs further investigations.
4. løsarbeider: taking jobs offered on a short-time basis. hodesamier: no idea, where did you find that ? jordløs husmann: husmann= class under the farmers. Mostly renting some field(s) of the farm and having a separate house(hold). But in some cases, esp. at the coast, without any field ("jordløs") Rather engaged with fisheries, I guess.

By the way, no reason to doubt that Hans was a fisherman when still at Buksnes, the Lofoten islands. But in 1900 he stays with another Buksnes family in Trondheim:
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/We ... 31811#ovre
Working with stones and mining.

Regards
Knut

[gj14879]

I had to laugh when you asked me "where did you find that?" (Refer to your #4 comment about the spelling of Hodesamier) I got it off the 1900 Census for Hans Hermansen....but I spelled it wrong...it should be "hodesamler". Blame my mispellings on my Swedish ancestors.

Anyway, I just want to tell all of you the information you sent me is so interesting. My dad (who is 93 years old) is the last remaing child of Hans Hermansen and has always asked to do this because he really did not know his father. Hans left the family when Dad was about 8 years old . So as you guys send information, I have been writing it down for him.

So again, I appreciate all of your help.
Mary

[Knut Ragnar Ansnes]

yes, I notice the word now; and I am on your level, I am still at a loss. Hodesamler = collector of heads ??? ( directly translated ) I have never seen the word before. It may be an error of print. Or perhaps someone can help us. At least he is not a "hodesamler" in 1875

If I read the census links correctly, it appears that Hermand Marthin Hermandsen was born 1840 in the city of Bergen. And sure enough, we find a candidate in the ministerial books:
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/we ... 67263#ovre
The son of matros ( shipman, sailor ) Hermand Jørgensen & Berthe Karine Mikalsdatter. The couple was not married when he was born on Nov 1st 1840. Bapt. Nov 15th at Nykirken.

Knut

[Paul Johan Hals]

Hi.

"Hodesamler" is a person that collect fishheads. The heads are dried and crushed and used for manure. The product is usually named as "guano".

Mvh Paul

[gj14879]

So my great grandfather collected fish heads for a living??? I am SO NOT surprised. It is amazing the stuff one finds out about the past. This is such great information!
I have been trying to "google translate" all the documents that you sent me and it is really funny to read the direct translations...like "improper birth", for the parents not marrying.

And you finally found the sailor in our family, albiet it is my great, great grandfather, Herman Jorgensen! Sure gets confusing with all the same names.

Oh...as for the question....did Helma have a sister named Julia who lived in Minneapolis?

I relooked at the ship manifst of 1906 and the name Julia is certain, but not sure if it is Iversen. (Hard to read, might be Larsen???. )
Maybe Helma had a half sister named Julia or a brother that married a Julia? I do not think that it is on Han's side of the family because his sister's names do not reflect the name Julia.
Just some thoughts....
Mary

[Knut Ragnar Ansnes]

Hello again, consider this:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... 23453#ovre
(Emigrants by way of Trondheim, leaving Feb. 6th, 1906 ) :

Hans Jørgen Hermundsen, city worker
Helma Hermundsen, wife
Julia Ing. Lundquist, servant girl, travelling from SWEDEN. heading for HALIFAX;
- and several others.
Are you sure there is a connection between Hans & Helma, and then Julia ?

Knut

[Paul Johan Hals]

A little more.

Refering to the 1900 cencus
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcen ... =5341#ovre

Hans' father, Herman Hermansen is "Løsarbeider, hodesamler, Jordløs husmand". That mean he had "more than one foot to stay on". in addition to be "hodesamler" he vas also "Løsarbeider" which mean Casual worker. And he was "Husmann uten jord". That means he was living on a farm. The owner of the Farm offered him a house or cottage, and he had to work several weeks a year for the owner to pay for this. How much work he had to do depended on how large the house/cottage was.

Mvh Paul

[gj14879]

Oh, I see what you are looking at. The outbound ship to US.
Good catch to see a Julie on that list.
What I am referring to is the Ellis Island list of incoming immigrants. The document is titled, Sailing from Kristiania, the ninth of February, 1906. The ship is called Helig Olav.
I tried to give you a copy of a close up of the wording. For some reson I cannot seem to be able to send you a link.
But I believe it says under the heading "Whether going to join a relative or friend: and if so give name and address.
Under this column, Hans and Helma have entered: "Sister in law Julie Iversen???
1st ave 13th street (I think), Minneapolis MN.

Hope the attachment goes through.
Mary

[gj14879]

Thanks for the further clarification.
So if I get this right, to support his family not only did he collect fish heads, he was a laborer, (Probably what we call in US, "day laborer), and worked on a farm to pay for the cottage rent.
I assume then, that "more than one foot to stay on" meant that had more than one job to support himself.

[18303]

Hilma (Halma) Øien in Census 1900, Namsos, Nord-Trøndelag.

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... =1376#ovre

In Bakke church when they are married it says her confirmation was in Namsos 13.5.1900.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 080111.jpg

Hilmas mother Margrete Larsdtr Venge, b 19.7.1849, Grytten, Møre og Romsdal

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 010323.jpg

Hilmas father Martin Haagensen Øien in Kristiansund in 1865

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... =4720#ovre

Martin Haagensen Øien b 6.1.1865, Vaage, Oppland

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 640447.jpg

Martins parents Haagen Torgersen and Kari Eriksdtr married 19.6.1862 Vaage, Oppland

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 640664.jpg

Randi

[Paul Johan Hals]

Thanks for the further clarification.
So if I get this right, to support his family not only did he collect fish heads, he was a laborer, (Probably what we call in US, "day laborer), and worked on a farm to pay for the cottage rent.
I assume then, that "more than one foot to stay on" meant that had more than one job to support himself.

That is just what I tried to say.

Best regards

Paul

[gj14879]

I want to thank each and everyone of you for all of your contributions. For the last two days I have been reviewing all the documents and I am thrilled with all the information I have.
No way could I have done this with out all of your help!

Now I am trying to translate the documents, get them in order so I can give this to my Dad for Christmas. If I need further information, such as translating, will I be able to trouble you guys again?

Regards,
Mary

[gj14879]

Hi everyone!
I have been going over all the records you have sent me and they have helped so much. But now I have three questions that I hope someone can answer for me.


1. The last record I can find for Hans Hermansen is the 1920 U.S Census. Surviving family members say that it was about 1924 when they last saw him before he disappeared. There is speculation that he left his family in Minneapolis and returned to Norway. But so far there is no proof. But they do recall that Helma was sending money to his parents in Norway. Is there any documentation, such as a death record, census record or immigration record that shows he was in Norway? Maybe living at his parent’s house or even one of his siblings?
2. Is there records of where and when Hans‘ parents died?
3. On the US emigration papers, Hans and Helma stated that they were going to Julia Iversen in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I recently learned that Julia Iversen was Helma’s half sister. Did Julia and Helma share the same mother, (Margrete Larsdtr Venge)) or the same father (Martin Haagensen Oien)?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can solve these mysteries.
Mary

[18303]

Mary

Julie Iversen is Hilmas half- sister.

Julie Margrete born 2. June 1879, in Kristiansund. Parents sailor Julius Martin Olsen and Margrete Olsen b. in Grytten.

Kildeinformasjon: Møre og Romsdal fylke, Kristiansund, Ministerialbok nr. 572A12 (1877-1879), Fødte og døpte 1879, side 75.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-73
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 610553.jpg

Julies confirmation in Bakke church in Trondheim 1. April 1894

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 630117.jpg

Census 1900. Julie stays with her grandparents in Trondheim

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... 30214#ovre

Julie Juliusdtr Olsen leaves Trondheim for Boston 9. Dec 1903

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcen ... ITROND&gar

Randi

[gj14879]

Thanks to you,Randi, one of the Mysteries have been solved!

I found Julia Olsen arriving in Boston on Dec 24 1903 via Liverpool. Her destination is Minneapolis, MN and she is joining her “friend”, P. Iversen! Since her Grandfather’s name is Ole Iversen Mathuag, there must be some connection in the family.

1) I am a little confused with the names for Julia and Helma’s parents. Please see if I got this right.
Julia was born in 1879. Her parent’s names “ Julius Martin Olsen and Margrete Olsen”.
Were the parents married? And did he die before 1884?

Helma (Julia’s half-sister) was born in 1884. Her parents names were “Martin Haagensen Øien and Margrete Larsdtr Venge, (b 19.7.1849, Grytten).
(Margrete was a widow, when Helma was born and never married Martin Haagensen Oien)
The 1865 census shows Helma and Julia’s mothers name as Margrethe Olsdatter and is living with her mother, Guri Olsdatter Winge. Is this correct?

2) As to finding the whereabouts of Hans Hermansen. I just learned that Hans and Helma had a baby in Norway, but he/she died. I have no other info concerning the birth, but I am assuming it occurred in Trondhjem. Any record of this to confirm?

Thanks again in advance and am looking forward to any more information you can find.
Mary

[18303]

Mary

Hilma Øien and Hans Jørgen Hermansen married in Bakke church.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 080106.jpg

Their son Herman Midthaug? Hansen f 2.9.1904, bapt. 30.10.1904 in Bakke church. I'll look for his death later.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 020459.jpg

1865. The Mithaug family in Kristiansund, they have a son Peder.

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCen ... =2554#ovre

Julias parents are not married when she is born in 1879. Bachelor and sailor Julius Martin Methaug dead 6 Dec 1881 in Nakikoto?

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 620699.jpg

1865. Margrete and her mother both are using the last name Olsen, it says her mother are married!! and I guess that’s why Margrete uses Olsen in this Census.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... =2495#ovre

Randi

[18303]

Mary

Hans Jørgen Hermansens Family Tree on Geni

http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6 ... 6611676010

Hansine Berntine Marie Hermansdtr b 9.2.1867 in Buksnes

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 020894.jpg

When Hans and Hilma is married Hans brother in law Erik Lagesen is the witness and when their son Hermann is baptized Erik and Hansine Lagesen are witnesses.

Census 1900. Hansine is married in Trondheim and Hans is living with the family.

http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/We ... 31805#ovre

Census 1910 and 1925

http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036806046589/

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... 51907#ovre

Ingeborg Anna Marie Hermannsdtr b 3.6.1873 in Buksnes

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?u ... 117#toppen

Census 1900. Ingeborg and her family in Trondheim.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... 27269#ovre

Census 1910 and 1925

http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036806005961/

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... 16751#ovre

Jacob Arnoldus Mikael Hermansen b 22.9.1876 in Buksnes

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?u ... =13#toppen

Census 1910

http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036928001530/

Marselius Andreas Hermansen b. 23.2.1883 in Buksnes

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 610637.jpg

Census 1910 Marselius is using the name Andreas and lives in Trondheim.

http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036806028063/

Herman Sigurd b 15.6.1910 Sandstad, Hitra

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 143051.jpg

His wife Marie dies 18.5.1916 in Sandstad, Hitra

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 143149.jpg

Andreas son Odd Charles Hermansen b 23.1.1918 Lademoen kirkebok, parents not married

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 020425.jpg

In 1925 Andreas is married a second time

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... =4727#ovre

Randi