Viewing LDS Ordinance info in Internet IGI

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:36:02 GMT, Robert Melson <[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
Dave Hinz <[email protected]> writes:

As someone who as been part of the linux community since the kernel 1.2
days, yeah, what else is new. Maybe you should call familysearch and/or
macromedia and, you know, demand your money back.

Get up on the wrong side of the bed, Dave?

Nope, just tired of people whining when they come up with a permutation
of OS and window manager and personal licensing biases that isn't
compatible with something being given away, and then complaining about
it.

IMO, this is a real
issue with many sites and appears, unfortunately, to be the direction
familysearch.org is heading. Even granting the majority of computer
abusers do so with some form of windoze, AKA Gates' Universal Computer
Virus, it is a mistake to require a specific application or browser be
installed in order to access even the most basic presentation. For
bells'n'whistles beyond a basic presentation ... well, mebbe so, but
basic access should be architecture/browser/application neutral.

Well the dynamic tree view thing they're doing is pretty
bell-n-whistleish. Looking at it, there's probably other ways to do it,
but flash _is_ a good solution sometimes.

As an aside, I was told by the folks at the familysearchlabs site that
flash 9 will be released for linux sometime around the beginning of the
new year, which may well render some of this discussion moot.

Except for the guy who expects some stormtroopers to arrive at his door
if he clicks "yes", I suppose.

I'll add,
too, that the project lead seemed entirely unsympathetic to the idea of
neutrality, which kinda torqued me (kinda, nothing, _really_ torqued me!).
We'll see what eventuates.

People code what, and for what, they know.

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:21:55 -0400, T.M. Sommers <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:

Riiiiiight. Because macromedia has the resources to show up at some
random genealogist's house to knock on the door and see a computer.
Sorry Robert, but this is a case of someone reading too much into it.

Have you read the license?

No. I'm taking your and the other guy's word on the word "audit" being
in there, I believe you.

It does indeed give them the right to
"audit" your computer. Maybe they won't ever exercise that
right, but they do claim to have it.

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

[Doug McDonald]

Dave Hinz wrote:

You see, according to the genealogy community I've been branded a leper
because I use Ubuntu Linux!

As someone who as been part of the linux community since the kernel 1.2
days, yeah, what else is new. Maybe you should call familysearch and/or
macromedia and, you know, demand your money back.

I too decry proprietary solutions, and prefer open or
generic ones. But sometimes the generic tools fail, usually
do to inefficiency.

I have recently written a quite nice, though very simple,
TMRCA calculator (Time Since Most Recent Ancestor) for me
and my DNA-testing-lover friends. It is in HTML and
Javascript and works nicely. It is also portable and
respectably fast. At least, it works on recent versions of
IE, Firefox, Opera, and Safari. It is legal code. It SHOULD
work on any legal browser. But it did not work correctly on
pre-7 IE because of an IE bug that I fixed with a horrible
kludge. (It did generate a correct graph, but there was an
appearance problem.)

But this is a fairly small program. For a larger program,
there is the Clan Donald USA DNA Project site which I wrote.
It generates tables based on searches of our DNA
database, using Javascript. It works fine but is SLOW,
up to 15 seconds on a 733 MHz Pentium III if you display the
whole database. This is 1/3 because Javascript is slow
and 2/3 because HTML tables are bog slow. That's the curse
of interpreted code and object-oriented programming. But
still, it's better for many of our users than using a
server-side solution. That would, using HTML tables,
require sending so much stuff that the download on
a slow line would be far far slower than 15 seconds. Using
image output would likely be slow too, and PDFs would of
course be proprietary, at least a little proprietary.

Doing it in plain C would be blazingly instantaneous ...
it's not a big job. Javascript seems in the realm of 500
times slower than C.

As I said, I've written a genealogy tree-drawer program in
plain C. It is FAST, even for 15,000 people. But to use it,
you would have to run the .exe file on your computer.

Doug McDonald

[Denis Beauregard]

On 13 Oct 2006 12:37:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And how do you prevent that ? In this case, there is a software
installed in your computer and this software is communicating
with some web sites because it is doing that to work. So, you
can't block that software if you have to use it.

This is not the same thing when there is a virus or a trojan
in your computer.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

[singhals]

Robert Melson wrote:

As an aside, I was told by the folks at the familysearchlabs site that
flash 9 will be released for linux sometime around the beginning of the
new year, which may well render some of this discussion moot. I'll add,
too, that the project lead seemed entirely unsympathetic to the idea of
neutrality, which kinda torqued me (kinda, nothing, _really_ torqued me!).
We'll see what eventuates.

Back in the dawn of time (G) ... when PAF was a DOS program and WIN was
at 3.1 (not even 3.11 yet), PAF user groups made a HUGE deal out of
moving PAF into the up-and-coming WIN environment, GUI and all. It took
maybe 4 or 5 years, but the UGs finally convinced 'em.

Old Vulcan proverb: be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

Cheryl

[Hugh Watkins]

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:

I understand not wanting to give away information that someone will sell,
and I don't have any subscriptions (as a matter of finances).

I have, however, learned so much information from RootsWeb and FamilySearch
and Cyndi's List that I know more now than my parents or grandparents did
about their own families. I've found many mistakes, but I've learned to
dig a bit deeper to find what I believe makes sense and is more accurate.

I am truly grateful to those who upload to the free sites, and without them,
would never have learned a quarter of the information I now have. The
generosity of those here who do have subscriptions and are so willing to do
look ups for others is truly amazing, and I try very hard not to abuse
their kindness.

Had it not been for this newsgroup I'd never have known about Heritage Quest
and the information I've gleaned from that site is astounding.

I know there are probably other great free sites out there of which I'm
unaware, but if I live long enough I'll find them too and perhaps learn
even more.

Guess all this rambling is just to say thank you for caring enough about
others to upload your information where people can readily find it.


Hugh Watkins wrote:


That's is exactly why I DO upload my research to Ancestry or any other
pay site.

Hugh W << misquoted

I DO upload my data for anyobe to use pay site or not

Hugh W

--

new phone = new daily blog
http://upsrev622.blogspot.com/

family history
http://hughw36.blogspot.com

[Dr. Brian Leverich]

As someone who as been part of the linux community since the kernel 1.2
days, yeah, what else is new.

Dave Hinz <[email protected]

Newbie. (:

Cheers, B. <-- Around since the 0.9x kernels. (Somewhere around here
I still have a SLS distro on about 50 floppies ... )

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:21:45 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13 Oct 2006 12:37:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And how do you prevent that ?

Several layers of firewalls. I'd rather not go into details.

In this case, there is a software
installed in your computer and this software is communicating
with some web sites because it is doing that to work. So, you
can't block that software if you have to use it.

If it talks on port 80. Most phone-home software doesn't. You _do_
know that of course if you care about the topic, right?

This is not the same thing when there is a virus or a trojan
in your computer.

A program doing a phone home behaves no differently than a trojan or
virus in terms of communications.

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:04:46 +0000 (UTC), Dr. Brian Leverich <[email protected]> wrote:

As someone who as been part of the linux community since the kernel 1.2
days, yeah, what else is new.

Newbie. (:

Guilty as charged, m'lud.

Cheers, B. <-- Around since the 0.9x kernels. (Somewhere around here
I still have a SLS distro on about 50 floppies ... )

Sweet. I actually scoffed at Linux before, what, redhat 4.x (the first
time around the numbers...grrr...) because I was like, well what's the
point of Unix on a PC when I have this perfectly good Sun gear right
here?

[Denis Beauregard]

On 14 Oct 2006 02:01:56 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:21:45 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 12:37:38 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And how do you prevent that ?

Several layers of firewalls. I'd rather not go into details.

In this case, there is a software
installed in your computer and this software is communicating
with some web sites because it is doing that to work. So, you
can't block that software if you have to use it.

If it talks on port 80. Most phone-home software doesn't. You _do_
know that of course if you care about the topic, right?

But we are not talking about a virus or trojan but about a software
that has the purpose of communicating with a remote server. So,
what is the difference between the expected behaviour of a piece of
code (getting some data from the remote server in the case of Flash)
and the unexpected behaviour (sending to the remote server some
data your don't want to, like a list of softwares installed in your
computer).

This is not the same thing when there is a virus or a trojan
in your computer.

A program doing a phone home behaves no differently than a trojan or
virus in terms of communications.

The standard defense is to block the unexpected, i.e. if process
XYZ is sending some request to a remote server, then you can react.
But in this case, we are expecting the process to contact the
remote server because it has to get some data on this remote server,
i.e. some genealogical data or software to display it. If it is a
binary content (communication is faster if your compress the data),
how will you detected unexpected data when you expect some data
anyway. In other words, how will you find the difference between
the expected message (send me the software to display a genealogical
tree with this or that information) and the unexpected message (send
me a list of softwares installed in your computer for audition) ?


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:30:00 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:

On 14 Oct 2006 02:01:56 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

If it talks on port 80. Most phone-home software doesn't. You _do_
know that of course if you care about the topic, right?

But we are not talking about a virus or trojan but about a software
that has the purpose of communicating with a remote server.

OK Denis, please tell me how this is functionally different than any
other program, virus, trojan, malware, or legit, which opens a
connection on a tcp/ip port?

So,
what is the difference between the expected behaviour of a piece of
code (getting some data from the remote server in the case of Flash)

THE. as in familysearch, yes.

and the unexpected behaviour (sending to the remote server some
data your don't want to, like a list of softwares installed in your
computer).

Presumably that would be going to other than familysearch then, wouldn't
it. If you're really this paranoid of course you already know this,
but network connections have destinations. If the destination is to
other than the one you yourself initiated, your software prevents and/or
notifies you of this, right?

Or could it be you're just complaining to hear yourself talk. I mean,
if you pretend to care, but don't take the first basic steps to do
something about it, your vague handwaving here serves no positive
purpose.

This is not the same thing when there is a virus or a trojan
in your computer.

A program doing a phone home behaves no differently than a trojan or
virus in terms of communications.

The standard defense is to block the unexpected, i.e. if process
XYZ is sending some request to a remote server, then you can react.

See prior re: no different than malware, yes.

But in this case, we are expecting the process to contact the
remote server

familysearch?

because it has to get some data on this remote server,
i.e. some genealogical data or software to display it. If it is a
binary content (communication is faster if your compress the data),
how will you detected unexpected data when you expect some data
anyway.

Because it's going to a different IP than the connection you yourself
initiated. Please read up on firewalls before pretending to be a
subject matter expert; your current approach isn't working and makes you
come across as both ignorant and alarmist. Sorry to be blunt but if
that surprises you from me, you haven't been paying attention.

In other words, how will you find the difference between
the expected message (send me the software to display a genealogical
tree with this or that information) and the unexpected message (send
me a list of softwares installed in your computer for audition) ?

See previous regarding this magic concept called an "IP address".
Perhaps you've heard of them.

[Denis Beauregard]

On 14 Oct 2006 03:24:04 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:30:00 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:
On 14 Oct 2006 02:01:56 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote in
soc.genealogy.computing:

If it talks on port 80. Most phone-home software doesn't. You _do_
know that of course if you care about the topic, right?

But we are not talking about a virus or trojan but about a software
that has the purpose of communicating with a remote server.

OK Denis, please tell me how this is functionally different than any
other program, virus, trojan, malware, or legit, which opens a
connection on a tcp/ip port?

The firewall will identify a process trying to open a port and has
no permission to do that if you have a virus. The firewall will
identify a process that has the permission if you have flash.

So,
what is the difference between the expected behaviour of a piece of
code (getting some data from the remote server in the case of Flash)

THE. as in familysearch, yes.

and the unexpected behaviour (sending to the remote server some
data your don't want to, like a list of softwares installed in your
computer).

Presumably that would be going to other than familysearch then, wouldn't
it. If you're really this paranoid of course you already know this,
but network connections have destinations. If the destination is to
other than the one you yourself initiated, your software prevents and/or
notifies you of this, right?

I don't have any firewall, so I am not that paranoid. But I must
say the last time I installed a firewall, my internet access was no
more working correctly and I think this would be the case with a
lot of netters, i.e. no correct set up for the firewall.

Anyway, at the other end, on the server side, you have no idea
about where the data is going. Just like in nearly all pre-installed
softwares on today's web hosts.

Anyway, if you know the origin and destination, you have no idea about
the intermediate servers. You can do a traceroute but you have no
access to the route.

Or could it be you're just complaining to hear yourself talk. I mean,
if you pretend to care, but don't take the first basic steps to do
something about it, your vague handwaving here serves no positive
purpose.

All this happens in the context of a specific comment about the
license of flash.

This is not the same thing when there is a virus or a trojan
in your computer.

A program doing a phone home behaves no differently than a trojan or
virus in terms of communications.

The standard defense is to block the unexpected, i.e. if process
XYZ is sending some request to a remote server, then you can react.

See prior re: no different than malware, yes.

But in this case, we are expecting the process to contact the
remote server

familysearch?

or subcontracted. Microsoft was using a Linux server some times ago
because of some net problem. So you have no guarantee that the
server will always be the one at Microsoft in this case. I don't
see why it would be different with familysearch.

because it has to get some data on this remote server,
i.e. some genealogical data or software to display it. If it is a
binary content (communication is faster if your compress the data),
how will you detected unexpected data when you expect some data
anyway.

Because it's going to a different IP than the connection you yourself
initiated. Please read up on firewalls before pretending to be a
subject matter expert; your current approach isn't working and makes you
come across as both ignorant and alarmist. Sorry to be blunt but if
that surprises you from me, you haven't been paying attention.

You can act on the destination, not on the intermediary route. You
can't act on what is on the server side. The IP can be changed for
maintenance purpose on the server side or just because they moved
the server to another machine.

In other words, how will you find the difference between
the expected message (send me the software to display a genealogical
tree with this or that information) and the unexpected message (send
me a list of softwares installed in your computer for audition) ?

See previous regarding this magic concept called an "IP address".
Perhaps you've heard of them.

Why do they request the permission to audit my computer if they never
intend to do it ?


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

[Denis Beauregard]

I think we both missed the more important point.

Macromedia is requesting the permission to audit the user's computer.
It is in the licence. But why would they do that ? Surely not to
check your computer if you have installed a free software like Flash.
So, discussion about the security in the Flash context and its use by
familysearch is a dead end.

Macromedia would do that for the purpose of checking unauthorized
use of any other software they are selling, but not Flash which is
free.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

[T.M. Sommers]

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:21:55 -0400, T.M. Sommers <[email protected]> wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Riiiiiight. Because macromedia has the resources to show up at some
random genealogist's house to knock on the door and see a computer.
Sorry Robert, but this is a case of someone reading too much into it.

Have you read the license?

No. I'm taking your and the other guy's word on the word "audit" being
in there, I believe you.

It does indeed give them the right to
"audit" your computer. Maybe they won't ever exercise that
right, but they do claim to have it.

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And when they show up on your doorstep with a court order and the
sheriff ...

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- [email protected] -- AB2SB

[T.M. Sommers]

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:21:45 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:

In this case, there is a software
installed in your computer and this software is communicating
with some web sites because it is doing that to work. So, you
can't block that software if you have to use it.

If it talks on port 80. Most phone-home software doesn't. You _do_
know that of course if you care about the topic, right?

Most evil phone-home software will use port 80, if it really
wants to get through, because that is one port that will almost
certainly not be blocked. AIM does that, for instance. (Most
evil software also cheats by not setting the Evil Bit (RFC3514),
but that is another story.)

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- [email protected] -- AB2SB

[Hugh Watkins]

Denis Beauregard wrote:

I think we both missed the more important point.

Macromedia is requesting the permission to audit the user's computer.
It is in the licence. But why would they do that ? Surely not to
check your computer if you have installed a free software like Flash.
So, discussion about the security in the Flash context and its use by
familysearch is a dead end.

Macromedia would do that for the purpose of checking unauthorized
use of any other software they are selling, but not Flash which is
free.

in the dreamweaver user group

webmasters are asking if flash is pointless
because it is mostly used to impress other flash artists and webmasters
not clients or users

the java InterneTree by Don Baldwin form 2000 on
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... index.html
and similar pages is pretty useless in Firefox on the mac

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/ja ... /help.html

I prefer the world connect approach

Hugh W
--

new phone = new daily blog
http://upsrev622.blogspot.com/

family history
http://hughw36.blogspot.com

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 23:58:50 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]> wrote:

I think we both missed the more important point.

Macromedia is requesting the permission to audit the user's computer.
It is in the licence. But why would they do that ? Surely not to
check your computer if you have installed a free software like Flash.

Obviously. And if you cared as much about security as you pretend to,
you'd use a firewall and the "why" would be irrelevant, because the
"how" could never happen.

If it bothers you, block it. If it doesn't, why do you pretend to be an
authority on it when you admit you don't even _use_ a firewall and you
clearly don't understand them?

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:08:51 -0400, T.M. Sommers <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And when they show up on your doorstep with a court order and the
sheriff ...

Yes? What about it. Do you _REALLY_ think my stuff is so interesting
that Macromedia is going to come to my house? Adjust your tin foil hat
there sparky - remember, shiny side _out_.

[T.M. Sommers]

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:08:51 -0400, T.M. Sommers <[email protected]> wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Anyone concerned about privacy has means in place to prevent such
"audits" remotely, and see previous about physical security. Click the
box and use the tool, or not. They're not getting in here,
electronically or physically.

And when they show up on your doorstep with a court order and the
sheriff ...

Yes? What about it. Do you _REALLY_ think my stuff is so interesting
that Macromedia is going to come to my house? Adjust your tin foil hat
there sparky - remember, shiny side _out_.

I agree it is unlikely that they will ever try to enforce the
audit clause on any particular individual, but the point is that
they assert the right to do so. Yet they put that clause in
there, so they surely intend to use it on someone. I prefer not
to deal with entities that even attempt such tactics. Who knows
what other underhanded things they may be up to? If you want to
take the risk, fine.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- [email protected] -- AB2SB

[Denis Beauregard]

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:56:11 -0400, "T.M. Sommers" <[email protected]> wrote
in soc.genealogy.computing:

I agree it is unlikely that they will ever try to enforce the
audit clause on any particular individual, but the point is that
they assert the right to do so. Yet they put that clause in
there, so they surely intend to use it on someone. I prefer not
to deal with entities that even attempt such tactics. Who knows
what other underhanded things they may be up to? If you want to
take the risk, fine.

Could this be a part of a strategy so as to sell the company to
Microsoft later ? In this context, this would increase the value
of Macromedia when negociating the price.

So, all that debate would not be a matter of security but just about
a marketing strategy.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

[Trevor Rix]

Krazy,

I have seen FTM 2006 and FTM ver 16 advertised. Anyone now which
is the latest?? I was using version 11 and upgraded to FTM 2005.
What version is 2005??

Why don't they either use the version number or year and not
both??

12 was a beta I think ???
13 or 14 2005
15 2006 upgradable on line to 16 so get a cheap cd flat pack

Hugh W

Sorry, that is mostly incorrect.

Family Tree Maker 2005 is version 12 first released August 2004. 2006
is version 13 first released August 2005. Version 16 was released
August 2006. The publishers skipped numbers 14 and 15 (except for
some Australian editions of 2005 and 2006 that are also known as 14
or 15).

Trevor Rix
TWR Computing (retailers of Family Tree Maker)
http://www.twrcomputing.co.uk
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Family-History-Software

[Hugh Watkins]

Trevor Rix wrote:

Krazy,


I have seen FTM 2006 and FTM ver 16 advertised. Anyone now which
is the latest?? I was using version 11 and upgraded to FTM 2005.
What version is 2005??

Why don't they either use the version number or year and not

both??

12 was a beta I think ???
13 or 14 2005
15 2006 upgradable on line to 16 so get a cheap cd flat pack

Hugh W


Sorry, that is mostly incorrect.

Family Tree Maker 2005 is version 12 first released August 2004. 2006
is version 13 first released August 2005. Version 16 was released
August 2006. The publishers skipped numbers 14 and 15 (except for
some Australian editions of 2005 and 2006 that are also known as 14
or 15).

thanks Trevor

I just got all the updates for the last six years (often from you guys)
but did not check
great value
now running on MacBook pro
on parallels on WinXp SP2

I blogged some screen shots
http://mac-on-intel.blogspot.com/

http://mac-on-intel.blogspot.com/2006/1 ... creen.html
in connection with another group


regards


Hugh W

--

Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks

old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

[Susan Young]

Hello,

I have access to all PAF 2, 3, 4 and 5.2.18, so if you have difficulty I
would be willing to convert it for you. Just put the .bak file on an email
to me and I'll bring it up to PAF 5.2.18 for you.

Best wishes,
Susan D. Young
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
[email protected]
http://www.ancestrysolutions.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: GENCMP Digest, Vol 1, Issue 26

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Help with old software (Lesley Robertson)
2. Personal Historian (Jenny4275)
3. [MacIntel] ohmiGene BETA (Tehenne)
4. Re: Family Tree Maker version question (Trevor Rix)
5. Re: Family Tree Maker version question (Hugh Watkins)
6. Re: Ancestry message board (jj206)
7. Re: Help with old software (jj206)
8. Re: Ancestry message board ([email protected])
9. Re: Personal Historian (Kerry Raymond)
10. Re: Help with old software (cecilia)
11. Re: Help with old software (Mike Williams)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:54:38 +0100
From: "Lesley Robertson" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Help with old software
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]


"Robert M. Riches Jr." <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
On 2006-11-17, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:22:57 +0200, Steve Hayes <[email protected]
wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 17:26:22 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

Does anyone recognize these backup files and know the program and where
I can find it?

PAF 2.x

Where could I find an installer for PAF that old? I have his files and
a system to install it on, anyone have it?

The PAF 5.2 CD has versions 2, 3, and 4 on it in other
subdirectories. (I don't know for certain whether 2, 3, or
4 run under Wine, but 5.2 does.) If you need, I could pick
up a CD and toss it in the mail to you, but it will probably
be a couple of weeks before I'd be able to get my hands on a
CD.

Is it necessary to install the old version? Most programmes have backward
compatibility. Can't he just download the current version from the LDS
site
and use that?
Lesley Robertson




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: 18 Nov 2006 08:27:36 -0800
From: "Jenny4275" <[email protected]
Subject: Personal Historian
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Does anyone use Personal Historian software? I am a bit overwhelmed
getting started, particularily with the "new project" option. My
question for anyone that is familiar with Personal Historian is - is it
better to start a new project for each person or for each family? I
would be interested in hearing various pros and cons in getting started
with this. Thankyou.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:41:06 +0400
From: [email protected] (Tehenne)
Subject: [MacIntel] ohmiGene BETA
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <1hp0mow.1967h36ttcyo0N%[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

WARNING

It is a version beta which I did not test !


I develop with REALBASIC 2006 r3.
Versions compiled with this program are verified and work as waited
under Mac and Windows.

On the other hand, the UB version is compiled with the RB 2006 r4 (with
bugs).
PPC and UB (PPC) versions seem to work correctly.
INTEL and UB (INTEL) versions were not able to be tested and it will be
only when I shall have received ordered MacBookPro one month ago.

If that interests you to test this MacIntel version, you can ask for it
here:

[email protected]

If you want to test it from a genealogy create with ohmiGene 1.0,
absolutely put a copy of the file 'Requis' in the folder containing the
UB version.

Note: help is not updated. And novelties (Google maps, ...) are not
informed : it is a version b?ta.

Thank you to inform me some behavior of this version. If accidentally,
it was unusable, thank you to prevent me of it at once.

--
T?henne Saint-Denis de la R?union
Logiciel de g?n?alogie ohmiGene (Mac & PC): http://www.nauze.com/
Comparatif Import-Export Gedcom : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cajun/
Disget du format Gedcom : http://www.nauze.com/gmc/indexGED.html


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:26:54 +0000
From: "Trevor Rix" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Family Tree Maker version question
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Krazy,

I have seen FTM 2006 and FTM ver 16 advertised. Anyone now which
is the latest?? I was using version 11 and upgraded to FTM 2005.
What version is 2005??

Why don't they either use the version number or year and not
both??

12 was a beta I think ???
13 or 14 2005
15 2006 upgradable on line to 16 so get a cheap cd flat pack

Hugh W

Sorry, that is mostly incorrect.

Family Tree Maker 2005 is version 12 first released August 2004. 2006
is version 13 first released August 2005. Version 16 was released
August 2006. The publishers skipped numbers 14 and 15 (except for
some Australian editions of 2005 and 2006 that are also known as 14
or 15).

Trevor Rix
TWR Computing (retailers of Family Tree Maker)
http://www.twrcomputing.co.uk
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Family-History-Software


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:29:55 +0000
From: Hugh Watkins <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Family Tree Maker version question
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Trevor Rix wrote:

Krazy,


I have seen FTM 2006 and FTM ver 16 advertised. Anyone now which
is the latest?? I was using version 11 and upgraded to FTM 2005.
What version is 2005??

Why don't they either use the version number or year and not

both??

12 was a beta I think ???
13 or 14 2005
15 2006 upgradable on line to 16 so get a cheap cd flat pack

Hugh W


Sorry, that is mostly incorrect.

Family Tree Maker 2005 is version 12 first released August 2004. 2006
is version 13 first released August 2005. Version 16 was released
August 2006. The publishers skipped numbers 14 and 15 (except for
some Australian editions of 2005 and 2006 that are also known as 14
or 15).


thanks Trevor

I just got all the updates for the last six years (often from you guys)
but did not check
great value
now running on MacBook pro
on parallels on WinXp SP2

I blogged some screen shots
http://mac-on-intel.blogspot.com/

http://mac-on-intel.blogspot.com/2006/1 ... creen.html
in connection with another group


regards


Hugh W

--

Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks

old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:42:40 -0800
From: jj206 <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Ancestry message board
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

SCraig wrote:
What's with Ancestry? Suddenly they are showing an old email address as
the
contact for me on the message boards. It's one that I don't even have
anymore. My account profile shows the correct email address and I can't
see
where to make the change in the message board. Anyone know and anyone
know
why they made this change?


Here is their contact webpage.

http://ancestry.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/an ... er/ask.php

Jonathan


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 12:01:07 -0800
From: jj206 <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Help with old software
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Lesley Robertson wrote:
"Robert M. Riches Jr." <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
On 2006-11-17, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:22:57 +0200, Steve Hayes <[email protected]
wrote:
On 15 Nov 2006 17:26:22 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
Does anyone recognize these backup files and know the program and
where
I can find it?
PAF 2.x
Where could I find an installer for PAF that old? I have his files and
a system to install it on, anyone have it?
The PAF 5.2 CD has versions 2, 3, and 4 on it in other
subdirectories. (I don't know for certain whether 2, 3, or
4 run under Wine, but 5.2 does.) If you need, I could pick
up a CD and toss it in the mail to you, but it will probably
be a couple of weeks before I'd be able to get my hands on a
CD.

Is it necessary to install the old version? Most programmes have backward
compatibility. Can't he just download the current version from the LDS
site
and use that?
Lesley Robertson


Hi Lesley,

According to the LDS website..."This PAF 5.2 version will convert PAF
3.0 and 4.0 data files to its improved file format."

So PAF 2.3 is too far back to import directly. However, a person could
use PAF 3 and import 2.3 data into it. Make a backup copy of the data,
then import it with PAF 5.2 kinda like hopscotch. *smile*

Jonathan


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: 18 Nov 2006 12:37:08 -0800
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Ancestry message board
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


SCraig wrote:
What's with Ancestry? Suddenly they are showing an old email address as
the
contact for me on the message boards. It's one that I don't even have
anymore. My account profile shows the correct email address and I can't
see
where to make the change in the message board. Anyone know and anyone
know
why they made this change?

Seems Ancestry was doing some work in preparation for their new boards
and something went wrong- lots of complaints on the Board Admins board
about moved messages being moved back to original board, Type of
message missing, etc....



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:12:26 +1000
From: "Kerry Raymond" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Personal Historian
To: [email protected]
Message-ID:
[email protected]


"Jenny4275" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Does anyone use Personal Historian software? I am a bit overwhelmed
getting started, particularily with the "new project" option. My
question for anyone that is familiar with Personal Historian is - is it
better to start a new project for each person or for each family?

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to do, but the way you ask
the question, it sounds like you are wanting to record information about
many families and many individuals. If so, I suspect you might need
RootsMagic Genealogy Software and not Personal Historian.

Kerry







------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:09:14 GMT
From: [email protected] (cecilia)
Subject: Re: Help with old software
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]

jj206 wrote:
According to the LDS website..."This PAF 5.2 version will convert PAF
3.0 and 4.0 data files to its improved file format."

So PAF 2.3 is too far back to import directly. However, a person could
use PAF 3 and import 2.3 data into it. Make a backup copy of the data,
then import it with PAF 5.2 kinda like hopscotch. *smile*

PAF4 indicates it can import indiv2.dat files from PAF2. I don't konw
enough to know if it would then pull in the links in the other files.

PAF4 is still on the list of downloadable free software at
http://www.familysearch.org/.


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 05:19:02 +0000
From: Mike Williams <[email protected]
Subject: Re: Help with old software
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]

Wasn't it jj206 who wrote:

According to the LDS website..."This PAF 5.2 version will convert PAF
3.0 and 4.0 data files to its improved file format."

So PAF 2.3 is too far back to import directly. However, a person could
use PAF 3 and import 2.3 data into it. Make a backup copy of the data,
then import it with PAF 5.2 kinda like hopscotch. *smile*

PAF 5.2 has a function for exporting data in "PAF 2.3" format, but when
you do so it creates a .ged file and a .lst file.

The internal documentation doesn't say what files it will import, but it
will import the .ged file that it exported in "PAF 2.3" format.

--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure


End of GENCMP Digest, Vol 1, Issue 26
*************************************

[Graham Ward]

On a related point, I have found tow reliable ways of getting into and out
Access from a Gedcom

One is using Ancestor Access http://home.att.net/~douglas.parrish/home.htm
which has a database structure that is compliant with the Gedcom 5.5
standard. You will find a lot of the hardwork on relationships done here.

The other method is via Excel the using Smart Genealogy from
http://alainlecomte.free.fr/Download.htm#SmartGenealogy

Graham

[annettedt]

Hi I don't get the reason for doing a transfer of a Gedcom File to Access
Database. When many genealogy software programs already let you create a
Family Group Sheet for your hard copy file, and/or individual summary/card
file.

Unless you know how to program Access to get relationships.
RootsMagic, The Master Genealogist, and Legacy software do create those
types of reports: card file/individual summary. I am sure other software
does this also. To me this is time wasted, when it is already out there for
you.


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of TomAlciere
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: spreadsheet to GEDCOM or PAF utility?


C.R. wrote:

On 29 Nov 2006 03:48:23 -0800, "TomAlciere"
[email protected]> wrote:

Does anybody know of a utility for converting spreadsheets from
transcribing projects, from spreatsheet formats to GEDCOM? Or to PAF,
from which GEDCOM can easily be exported?

There is no way to know - ahead of time - how the spreadsheet might
have been constructed by the person who created it, therefore such a
program would be unable to put each piece of data into the proper
GEDCOM format. It would have to be custom written.

C.R.

Or the program could ask the user which column is the birth date, which is
the death date etc.


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[Graham Ward]

Smart Genealogy from http://alainlecomte.free.fr/Download.htm#SmartGenealogy
will do this treat. You will need to set your spreadsheet up first, but it
does get you from Excel to SmartGenealogy and thence from there exported to
Gedcom.

The best way to work out how to do it is:

1. Import an existing Gedcom into SmartGenealogy
2. Export it to Excel
3. Adapt your new data into the format of the Excel sheet you have
created
4. Import your new data into a new SmartGenealogy database
5. Finally, export to Gedcom

Graham

[annettedt]

Claude go to Rootsmagic.com and download the trial version. I think you have
30 days to look at it, before it expires. I think you will see in the
family tab, whether the person has notes/ media/ sources/ etc and also
children attached. Besides the colors for your direct line. On the web
site is a list of all the features for this software, more than what is
listed in the Comparison Chart of the top 5 software package. The only way
I use FTM is for the CD's and also demo ing at Software meetings if
necessary. Anotherwards I have found it not to contain items that I need
for a software package.


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Dora Smith
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Some annoyances with FTM

You can fit your annoyances with FTM into a single paragraph?

--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
"CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I don't know about your option (a), but for (b) Roots Magic has a
feature that allows you to change the color of the root (or other
selected) person's text and all of that person's ancestors. So, for
example, when looking at an ancestral family, the child that is the
root person's direct ancestor shows up in a color other than the
standard black. Also, another feature shows the relationship to the root
person in the Status Bar area.
Both are very nice features.

"Claude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
There are two (apparent) deficiencies in the Family View of FTM that
really annoy me. First, it isn't possible to tell without further
clicks whether (a) a child has married and/or had offspring, or (b)
whether the parents and which child, if any, is the direct ancestor
of the main person of interest (in my case, me). Second, it isn't
possible to tell without further clicks if there are any Notes on the
husband or wife. In fact you have to do two clicks, i.e. Edit/Notes,
to find out if there's any info there. I'm therefore wondering what
program might enable me to get this info 'at a glance' or with the
minimum number of clicks? I'm using FTM 2006 but IIRC earlier
versions had the same annoying limitations.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[TomAlciere]

Graham Ward wrote:

Smart Genealogy from http://alainlecomte.free.fr/Download.htm#SmartGenealogy
will do this treat. You will need to set your spreadsheet up first, but it
does get you from Excel to SmartGenealogy and thence from there exported to
Gedcom.

The best way to work out how to do it is:

1. Import an existing Gedcom into SmartGenealogy
2. Export it to Excel
3. Adapt your new data into the format of the Excel sheet you have
created
4. Import your new data into a new SmartGenealogy database
5. Finally, export to Gedcom

Graham

Thanks. This is the reply I'm going with. I'm posting a link to that
software on my new website, GedcomLibrary.com to facilitate conversions
into GEDCOM format.

Tom Alciere

[Dora Smith]

You might also give Legacy a try, and PAF and PAF Companion. Both are
better than Rootsmagic, which is a nice program but has some serious
deficiencies, like the ability to put all your information in a genealogical
report, and the ability to both filter for and report christening dates if
you don't have dates of birth. Almost anything is better than FTM.

I'm afraid I've just gotten tired of trying to be helpful in detail when it
comes to FTM.

--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
"annettedt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Claude go to Rootsmagic.com and download the trial version. I think you
have
30 days to look at it, before it expires. I think you will see in the
family tab, whether the person has notes/ media/ sources/ etc and also
children attached. Besides the colors for your direct line. On the web
site is a list of all the features for this software, more than what is
listed in the Comparison Chart of the top 5 software package. The only
way
I use FTM is for the CD's and also demo ing at Software meetings if
necessary. Anotherwards I have found it not to contain items that I need
for a software package.


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Dora Smith
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Some annoyances with FTM

You can fit your annoyances with FTM into a single paragraph?

--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
"CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I don't know about your option (a), but for (b) Roots Magic has a
feature that allows you to change the color of the root (or other
selected) person's text and all of that person's ancestors. So, for
example, when looking at an ancestral family, the child that is the
root person's direct ancestor shows up in a color other than the
standard black. Also, another feature shows the relationship to the root
person in the Status Bar area.
Both are very nice features.

"Claude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
There are two (apparent) deficiencies in the Family View of FTM that
really annoy me. First, it isn't possible to tell without further
clicks whether (a) a child has married and/or had offspring, or (b)
whether the parents and which child, if any, is the direct ancestor
of the main person of interest (in my case, me). Second, it isn't
possible to tell without further clicks if there are any Notes on the
husband or wife. In fact you have to do two clicks, i.e. Edit/Notes,
to find out if there's any info there. I'm therefore wondering what
program might enable me to get this info 'at a glance' or with the
minimum number of clicks? I'm using FTM 2006 but IIRC earlier
versions had the same annoying limitations.






-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[Dora Smith]

BBC newsreaders are spying on your home?

Just get yourself an aluminum antenna. It'll fix the whole problem.

--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Gagged by BBC Ariel's editor

On 25 June 1997 I wrote to Landmark Publishing Services, who deal with
advertising for the BBC's in-house magazine Ariel.
I requested they run an advert "BBC Newsreaders Spying on my Home" in the
Personal column. They accepted my instructions
and payment, and the following advert did indeed run in Ariel's issue of 8
July 1997.

Following the successful placement of this small ad, I wrote again to
Landmark on 17 July 1997, requesting they run exactly
the same advert for 10 issues, enclosing payment. Unfortunately, the
advert did not appear in any further issues of Ariel,
because Ariel's editor Robin Reynolds nixed it. Here is an email from
Elaine Smith of Landmark dated 26 August 1997.

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:34:25 +0100 (BST)
X-Sender: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Elaine Smith)
Subject: Re: advert - ariel

With regard to your E-mail of 22 August 1997 concerning your advertisement
in the Ariel magazine.

I was instructed by Ariel to remove your advertisement from the classified
pages as they were not comfortable with the contents of the Internet
address you supplied. I realise we have placed the advertisement
successfully for you in the past. Unfortunately this time they decided
they
did not want it printed.

[snip]

I'm really sorry for the inconvenience I know this will have caused you,
but as you will understand Ariel have the last say in what is printed and
what is not.

Kind Regards

Elaine Smith
Classified Advertising Manager.

In my reply to Elaine Smith, I said;

I will speak to them directly, I believe their email address is
[email protected]. As you say, if the advert went through the first time,
then it should have gone through this time without problems. As I see it,
either what is on the website is true (which is my belief) in which case
they should allow it to be published, or else it is symptomatic of
delusions in which case again any reasonable person would recognise it
as such and its publication would not be suppressed. After all Britain
is not supposed to have censorship - it isn't a Communist country.

I also wrote to Mr Reynolds, Ariel's editor, asking him to reconsider his
decision to censor my advert. He replied
with the following letter;

Since a magazine's editor has final say over what appears in the
publication, there is nothing further that I can do
to encourage Ariel to accept my advert. Mr Reynold's censorship of my
legitimate complaint gives the game away a bit, though.
The BBC wish people to think of them as truthful and impartial - yet when
they are caught harassing one of their audience, they
resort to the same censoring tactics characteristic of the regimes they
hypocritically condemn.

177


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[[email protected]]

Dora Smith wrote:

You might also give Legacy a try, and PAF and PAF Companion. Both are
better than Rootsmagic, which is a nice program but has some serious
deficiencies, like the ability to put all your information in a genealogical
report, and the ability to both filter for and report christening dates if
you don't have dates of birth. Almost anything is better than FTM.

I'm afraid I've just gotten tired of trying to be helpful in detail when it
comes to FTM.

Face it Dora, You knowlwdge of genealogy in general is so weak and
twisted you've never been of help-period.


--
The Verminator

[K0BBE]

Pat smashed in the group:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to
it.
Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to
use, where to find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love
to hear from you.

For the genealogical data: a good programm that offers
html-output.
For additional text pages: Notepad !

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

Then don't forget my (Flemish) website...
--
K0BBE
..: webblad: [ http://www.vancoilge.net ]

[Laurence E Stephenson]

Pat wrote:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.


Try Google pages, go here to see an example

http://laurencestephenson.googlepages.com/

--

Regards
Laurence E Stephenson

http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/lauries/web/index.html

I am Researching:-
Butcher......Stroud, Gloucestershire, England............>1856
Fortune......Berwickshire, Scotland......................>1858
Garlick......Liverpool, Lancashire, England..............>1863
Mee..........Kilflyn, Limerick, Ireland (Palatine).......>1884
Payne........Washingborough, Lincolnshire, England.......>1863
Ritchie......Bonhill, Dunbartonshire, Scotland...........>1860
Stephenson...Pickering, Yorkshire, England ..............>1856
Wittick......(Convict) Walsall, Staffordshire, England...>1822

Heartnet = Heart support = http://heartnet.cci.ecu.edu.au/

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:10:27 GMT, "Pat" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

--
***This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Utilities ***

I don't have much advice yet. I did a Google search and found several
companies involved in the startup process - several are free for
limited use. I asked my sons what company their companies used and I
called one of them. I outlined exactly what I wanted to do and the rep
told me exactly how to proceed. He also answered every question as he
explained.

I secured a domain name for about $35 per year. They can be obtained
for less but I went with a top-o-the-line co. If I use their host
services the domain name is free as I understand.

The next thing to do is secure a host - actually you're hiring server
space for a monthly fee. There are easy ways to input your data and
there are hard ways. Generally you get what you pay for. I'm looking
at this now. I probably want a site to prevent harvesting.

My data is not lengthy because I am not showing my tree. I will be
showing a list of Sullivan facts, with sources, in VA and NC up to
about 1835 arranged chronologically by state, year and county with
some further sub-divisions. It's currently between 50-60 pages and all
single-spaced text.

This should be enough to get you started. I expect other much more
knowledgeable people will respond and I look forward to that.

Hugh

[Robert Melson]

In article <D%[email protected]>,
"Pat" <[email protected]> writes:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

There are at least three possibilities you might consider, two
fairly closely related, the third marching to its own drummer.

The first two are phpGedView and The Next Generation (TNG), both
of which are based on the php language and run on the webserver of
your choice - especially important if you'll be hosting your own
web-site. Both pGV and TNG operate with and on your current gedcom
and create web pages dynamically, which represents a helluva savings
on space required. Both also utilize a database engine for data
storage and to expedite queries. Both offer a wide range of reports
and are easily customized. pGV also "offers" a non-web interface,
gdbi (java-based) that provides a "Brothers Keeper" type user
interface for data viewing and entry. With this interface you can
use the whole range of LifeLines reports or, using the LifeLines
scripting language, "roll your own" - a nice feature if you're so
inclined. Both also have good graphics capabilities.

I use pGV on my own system (FreeBSD UNIX), together with the Apache
webserver and the MySQL database and am more than pleased with
performance. Why pGV and not TNG? Easy - pVG is _free_, while TNG
is not. Not, however, that TNG is up there with, say, _any_ Micro$oft
offering in terms of price (costs about $30, IIRC), just that the
differences between pGV and TNG are not such as to make TNG worth even
that minimal price. Because they're both written in php, they are
platform neutral and _should_ (do?) run on Windoze or OS-X, as well as
on many flavors of Linux and UNIX.

The third program is GeneWeb, which is written in OCAML and is unique
in that it acts as its own webserver. I used it early on and was
pleased with it in most areas but found that it failed miserably in
terms of site and data security. It, too, is free, and there is a
version available for Windows. GeneWeb is fairly easy to set up and
use and can be customized. It imports your gedcom and creates
web-pages dynamically, just as do pGV and TNG, so there's no huge
storage overhead. It's customizable and has fairly competent graphics
capabilities.

Which would I recommend? Depends, I suppose. I'm a computer geek
(retired UNIX systems administrator), so am not daunted by pGV or
TNG installation. For starters, I'd recommend you look up all three
applications' webpages and see for yourself what each has to offer.
If, at that point, you have other questions, drop me an email at the
reply-to address above and I'll happily try to answer them. At the
same time, if you'd like to take a look at my web-page and pGV, drop
me a note and I'll tell you how to access the system.

Last thought: if you _really_ don't want to get wrapped around the
axle with site admin, page creation, etc., dynamic page generation
is the only way to go, IMO. If even that minimal effort will be too
much, either in terms of time of level of expertise, look at GeneWeb
as by far the easiest package to use.

HTH,
Bob Melson


--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"People unfit for freedom---who cannot do much with it---are
hungry for power." ---Eric Hoffer

[Paul Blair]

Pat wrote:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

Can I ride in behind Robert Melson....

Before you make any decisions about how to go about all this, take a
moment or two to think about what happens after you post your first
public offering.

Family data is changing constantly - kids get born, folk die...

Most of us keep a home-based record of all this, which is quick and easy
to update. The question you have to answer is - do you want your web
site to be updated at the same time/or at least regularly?

You could make all the files for a web site with one click of a button
in, say, Legacy. The amended files need to be uploaded...all this takes
time. This is a "fixed" web site.

PGV and TNG can be amended in about the same time as it takes you to
amend your home data. Maintenance is much easier (the initial learning
curve is a bit steep, but there is plenty of help available), the data
is "flexible" and your site doesn't become a labour.

Paul

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Robert Melson) writes:

In article <D%[email protected]>,
"Pat" <[email protected]> writes:
Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.


There are at least three possibilities you might consider, two
fairly closely related, the third marching to its own drummer.

The first two are phpGedView and The Next Generation (TNG), both
of which are based on the php language and run on the webserver of
your choice - especially important if you'll be hosting your own
web-site. Both pGV and TNG operate with and on your current gedcom
and create web pages dynamically, which represents a helluva savings
on space required. Both also utilize a database engine for data
storage and to expedite queries. Both offer a wide range of reports
and are easily customized. pGV also "offers" a non-web interface,
gdbi (java-based) that provides a "Brothers Keeper" type user
interface for data viewing and entry. With this interface you can
use the whole range of LifeLines reports or, using the LifeLines
scripting language, "roll your own" - a nice feature if you're so
inclined. Both also have good graphics capabilities.

I use pGV on my own system (FreeBSD UNIX), together with the Apache
webserver and the MySQL database and am more than pleased with
performance. Why pGV and not TNG? Easy - pVG is _free_, while TNG
is not. Not, however, that TNG is up there with, say, _any_ Micro$oft
offering in terms of price (costs about $30, IIRC), just that the
differences between pGV and TNG are not such as to make TNG worth even
that minimal price. Because they're both written in php, they are
platform neutral and _should_ (do?) run on Windoze or OS-X, as well as
on many flavors of Linux and UNIX.

The third program is GeneWeb, which is written in OCAML and is unique
in that it acts as its own webserver. I used it early on and was
pleased with it in most areas but found that it failed miserably in
terms of site and data security. It, too, is free, and there is a
version available for Windows. GeneWeb is fairly easy to set up and
use and can be customized. It imports your gedcom and creates
web-pages dynamically, just as do pGV and TNG, so there's no huge
storage overhead. It's customizable and has fairly competent graphics
capabilities.

Which would I recommend? Depends, I suppose. I'm a computer geek
(retired UNIX systems administrator), so am not daunted by pGV or
TNG installation. For starters, I'd recommend you look up all three
applications' webpages and see for yourself what each has to offer.
If, at that point, you have other questions, drop me an email at the
reply-to address above and I'll happily try to answer them. At the
same time, if you'd like to take a look at my web-page and pGV, drop
me a note and I'll tell you how to access the system.

Last thought: if you _really_ don't want to get wrapped around the
axle with site admin, page creation, etc., dynamic page generation
is the only way to go, IMO. If even that minimal effort will be too
much, either in terms of time of level of expertise, look at GeneWeb
as by far the easiest package to use.

HTH,
Bob Melson

One thing I failed to mention about these three packages is ease of
update. In pGV and TNG, if you update via the application, your data
is automagically posted to your gedcom and to the database - you need
do nothing apart from entering the information. GeneWeb is not quite
so tolerant - if you input corrections or new data via the application,
it stays in the application until you purposely "dump" the entire
collection to a gedcom. This isn't a major problem and, in fact, just
might be an advantage because your gedcom remains in its original
condition. To my mind, though, it's a minor "gotcha" - I much prefer to
maintain 2 or more copies of my gedcom - one the original, tucked away
in a "safe place", the other(s) constantly updated via pGV and viewable
in other applications, such as text editors, genealogy apps, what-have-you.

Again, google all three, look over their features, try the demo sites,
decide for yourself.

Bob Melson

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"People unfit for freedom---who cannot do much with it---are
hungry for power." ---Eric Hoffer

[Hugh Watkins]

Pat wrote:

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

I use three freebies (paid for by advertising)

three interlinked blogs

http://lapham36.blogspot.com/
I upload gedcom
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=lapham
LAPHAm was my mother's maiden name

also by uploading gedcom for my family
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=hughw36
with a matching home page
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hugh/home.html

thanks to

Freepages: Free Unlimited Web Space
Request your own Freepages account
Freepages Genealogy Directory/Index
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/


also free space
http://www.rootsweb.com/~dnkcen/sitemap.html
and
http://users.rootsweb.com/~wlsmer/index.html


when I die my heirs will own my sites but will not have to pay for them
to continue


Hugh W

--

Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks

old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

[Martin]

In article <D%mdh.9836$Py2.9444
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, [email protected]
says...

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

Hi - I use GedHTree and like it. There is a free trial
version and it is easy to keep your webpages uptodate.
http://www.gedhtree.com/

--
Martin - Pangbourne, UK

[Peter]

Pat wrote:

I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

Be careful what content you put on the website. In particular, avoid
putting up any details on living people, as this is a privacy matter and
exposes them to criminal acts (like identity theft and fraud).

HTH

Peter

[Bill Harrison]

Hi

I use HTML Pedigree which can be found at ... http://www.htmlpedigree.com/
also it uses a search facility - check out my online tree to see how it
looks and feels etc at http://www.harrisongenealogy.co.uk

regards

Bill




----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.computing
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: creating web pages

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

If there is a faq or archive on this topic, please point me to it.

Else, if anyone has advice on this topic--which software to use, where to
find webspace reasonably priced, etc., I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Patricia
Champaign, IL

yep -- I'll be exploring existing web sites for examples.

--
***This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Utilities ***


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[Robert G. Eldridge]

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:57:18 +1300, Peter <[email protected]>
wrote:

Pat wrote:
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

Be careful what content you put on the website. In particular, avoid
putting up any details on living people, as this is a privacy matter and
exposes them to criminal acts (like identity theft and fraud).

HTH

In fact I don't think it helps at all Peter as, in my opinion, I do
not believe it to be true in general.

Further I have had a lot of people contact me asking that they be
shown on my Web pages.
--
Robert G. Eldridge Toronto NSW Australia
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddrge/
Now researching ELDRIDGE families world wide
1000's at my Web site * Wanted * Any Eldridge related information

[Pat]

Thanks for all the advice! I know how I'll be spending my time once the
holidays are over.

Patricia

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:D%[email protected]...

Hello,
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

--
***This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Utilities ***

[annettedt]

Web spaces are free on Rootsweb.com to Genealogist's. If you are using
a Genealogy Software package usually there is a part that lets you create a
web page from your data, and you can control the living people privacy
within the software.

I use FrontPage2003, and upload to Rootsweb.com using no extensions that are
in FrontPage. See the two sites below. I refuse to use the software and
all the data, as people take your data and add them to World Connect and
misspell and also don't give you credit for your own work.

Just my 2 cents...


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm

[Dr. Brian Leverich]

Pat wrote:
I'm interested in creating a web site of my genealogy research.

Be careful what content you put on the website. In particular, avoid
putting up any details on living people, as this is a privacy matter and
exposes them to criminal acts (like identity theft and fraud).

HTH

Peter <[email protected]

This is pretty much an urban myth. Most all of "identity theft"
is actually credit card theft or the like.

You can undoubtedly find one case of genealogical data being
used for identity theft, somewhere, sometime, but you cannot
demonstrate it's a meaningful part of the "identity theft"
problem. Knock yourself out Googling if you want to try to
demonstrate otherwise.

Having said all that, there's a whole cottage industry of fools
who believe that genealogical data have some relationship to
identity theft.

And there's another group of loonies who think that having their
birthdates on the Web somehow violates their privacy, while
living blissfully unaware that companies trade their medical
records like baseball cards and sell other touchy personal
info for pittances.

Publishing genealogical information on the living is probably a
bad idea, but largely because it's so darn irritating dealing
with the fools and idiots who have no clue with regard to modern
risks and what "privacy" is really about.

Cheers, B.

[Kay Archer]

[snipped some]

If you have PAF 5.2 and would be so kind, please click on
Tools -> Preferences -> Fonts, then click on the 'Defaults'
button. Now, what are the four font names?

ms sans serif normal 11pt
ms sans serif semi bold 8pt
ms sans serif normal 9pt
ms sans serif normal 9pt


version 5.2.18.0

[Robert G. Eldridge]

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:51:31 GMT, "Robert M. Riches Jr."
<[email protected]> wrote:

May I beg a favor from some kind-hearted soul (or maybe two
or three to establish a valid statistical sample)? I'm
having trouble with PAF 5.2 and fonts for report printing.
I got a suggestion to find out what font PAF is _supposed_
to default to.

If you have PAF 5.2 and would be so kind, please click on
Tools -> Preferences -> Fonts, then click on the 'Defaults'
button. Now, what are the four font names?

At least on my installation, if you then click on the
'Cancel' button, nothing about your setup will have changed.

Thank you very much.

Main Screen - Microsoft Sans Serif Normal 11pt
Dialogs - Microsoft Sans Serif SemiBold 8pt
Notes Edit Screen - Microsoft Sans Serif Normal 9pt
Notes on Reports - Microsoft Sans Serif Normal 9pt

Cheers,
--
Robert G. Eldridge Toronto NSW Australia
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddrge/
Now researching ELDRIDGE families world wide
1000's at my Web site * Wanted * Any Eldridge related information

[Susan Young]

Hello,

My setup indicates the font defaults to be the following:

Main Screen-Arial Unicode MS Normal 11pt

Dialogs-Arial Unicode MS SemiBold 9pt

Notes Edit Screen-Arial Unicode MS Normal 9pt

Notes on Reports-Arial Unicode MS Normal 9pt

I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Susan D. Young
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
[email protected]
http://www.ancestrysolutions.com

[Robert M. Riches Jr.]

On 2006-12-08, Susan Young <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello,

My setup indicates the font defaults to be the following:

Main Screen-Arial Unicode MS Normal 11pt

Dialogs-Arial Unicode MS SemiBold 9pt

Notes Edit Screen-Arial Unicode MS Normal 9pt

Notes on Reports-Arial Unicode MS Normal 9pt

I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Susan D. Young
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
[email protected]
http://www.ancestrysolutions.com

Yes. Many thanks to all who have responded.

--
Robert Riches
[email protected]
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[Dennis K.]

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:55:28 +1000, "Kerry Raymond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

I don't understand why this is a problem. Shouldn't a business that
deals in "risk" have as much information as possible?

Well, in Australia, no, they are entitled only to have what is "reasonable"
to provide the service. So someone like an insurer would have to have a
risk-related reason to ask certain questions.

That's what I meant. To a life insurer, a family history of diabetes
would certainly be "risk-related".

--

Dennis K.

[Robert M. Riches Jr.]

Sorry for following up to myself, but I had to add to the
earlier thanks to those who responded with their default PAF
fonts. Those responses were helpful in solving the problem.
I think I may still have a handprint in the middle of my
forehead from when I realized I had copied the core fonts
..exe files to the fonts directory, when I should have
executed them to install the .ttf files there.

Now, with Wine 0.9.27 just released today, the only trick
one must do to run PAF on Linux is to get and install
usp10.dll. A developer has told me he's working on that,
too, so it may not be long before PAF runs under Wine "out
of the box." I plan to update the "howto" note at
appdb.winehq.org soon.

Thanks again to those who helped.

--
Robert Riches
[email protected]
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[Susan Young]

Hello,
Please switch my GENCMP digest away from plain text and back to the MIME
format.

Best wishes,
Susan D. Young
[email protected]
http://www.ancestrysolutions.com

[Robert G. Eldridge]

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:04:04 +1000, "Kerry Raymond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

(I had written)

Further, my name, dob and mothers maiden surname was published in the
Sydney Morning Herald and that still happens today across Australia in
lots of papers.

I'm curious about this one. In what context was that information published?

As a Birth notice in the classified section of the newspaper.

Examples today can even be found on-line, for example by searching at
http://search.classifieds.news.com.au/s ... ectionid=7
and selecting Births in the Category drop-down and leaving the Keyword
search field blank.

Lots of names, dates of birth, parents names and mothers maiden names.

These basic details are a genealogists bread and butter and the fact
that they are published allows the genealogist to feast on the
details.

--
Bob

[Kerry Raymond]

As a Birth notice in the classified section of the newspaper.

There's no issue here. The person (or at least your parents ) is consenting
to the disclosure by advertising. People (or their parents) who don't want
their birth details made public don't advertise them. It would be different
if the newspaper went around announcing the details of births using
information they obtained from local hospitals (both organisations would be
in breach of the data privacy act if they did it).

Kerry

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:55:02 +1000, "Kerry Raymond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

As a Birth notice in the classified section of the newspaper.

There's no issue here. The person (or at least your parents ) is consenting
to the disclosure by advertising. People (or their parents) who don't want
their birth details made public don't advertise them. It would be different
if the newspaper went around announcing the details of births using
information they obtained from local hospitals (both organisations would be
in breach of the data privacy act if they did it).

Kerry

I suppose the hospital couldn't even announce births on their website
w/o permission in Kangaroo Kuntry. They do here in the colonies.

What if I happened to pass the nursery and learned about the birth?
Would I need permission to list the name and dob in genealogy I
published if I lived where summer happens in winter?

Hugh

[Ralph Page]

Is there a way I can compare contents of folders (files) on hard
drive and other drives without having to make paper copies to
compare?

Thanks,
Stan

I use 'Beyond Compare' file comparison software but there are a lot of
similar programs available.
Just Google 'File Compare Program' and you should find something that
works for you.
--
-Ralph Page
remove pants to reply by email

[annettedt]

I use PowerDesk 6, which is my replacement for Explorer XP file folder . I
have size manager, find (which is faster than Microsoft's) a sync manager
inside of it, besides the two window panes and a viewer pane available on
one screen. I have used this software for many years, and really like it.
I hate Explorer XP file folder which you can not do any of the items that I
mentioned.


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Stan Barras
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Comparing Files/Folders

Is there a way I can compare contents of folders (files) on hard drive and
other drives without having to make paper copies to compare?

Thanks,
Stan


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[Stan Barras]

Thanks, I'll check it out.
Stan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "annettedt" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.computing
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Comparing Files/Folders

I use PowerDesk 6, which is my replacement for Explorer XP file folder .
I
have size manager, find (which is faster than Microsoft's) a sync manager
inside of it, besides the two window panes and a viewer pane available on
one screen. I have used this software for many years, and really like it.
I hate Explorer XP file folder which you can not do any of the items that
I
mentioned.


Annette DeCourcy Towler
Home page for DeCourcy & Pack
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~decourcy/
Family, Maternal, Researching in SE KY PACK, CHANDLER, WHEELER,
FAIRCHILD,LeMASTERS, RAMEY,MILLER/MILAM/MILLAM, JAYNE, McSPADDEN; NE KY,
Paternal, DeCOURCY, ELLIS, BALL, MAINS, LEWIS, EVANS, SPILMAN, HUTCHINS,
HAMILTON; Researching in PA, IL Wessling, Somers, Schuler, Plagee/Plaggee,
DeCourcy, Brownback, Pollock
=======================================
Web page for St. Cloud Area Genealogists, Inc.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mnscag/SCAG/index.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Stan Barras
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Comparing Files/Folders

Is there a way I can compare contents of folders (files) on hard drive and
other drives without having to make paper copies to compare?

Thanks,
Stan


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message

[Helen Castle]

This is a bit drastic but will get them all out of your file.

Does TMG give the date of entry/merge anywhere in the record - start with
that and see if you can mass identify all the records and export them to
another file. Legacy lets you see the dates of last modified and whether
imported or not otherwise you will have to think up a filter that covers
what you want.

Then delete them out of your file - only after making sure you have a couple
of good backups.

Then slowly bring them back in one by one or family by family

Legacy will let you put 2 files up on the one screen and drag a family in,
surely TMG will do so as well

Helen Castle
Narangba 4504


"KatieHodge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Hello, I've looked at past posts, and think this is an appropriate
question for the group.... I want to get back into working on
genealogy. When I started, I imported someone else's research into
mine - close to 5,000 names of people related to my great grandmother.
As a newbie, it was very exciting. After working on the tree a few
years and learning more about genealogy, I'm still glad to have access
to the other person's research, but I really wish I hadn't merged it in
with mine. Short of reentering all of "my" information, does anyone
have advice on how to approach this problem?

My current software is "The Master Genealogist v6." I'm new to it,
having bought it about 2 years ago, but not using it much since I
realized what I really should do before adding more information is
clean up what I have.

Thank you for your thoughts and time.
Katie

[Rowbotth]

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Jesus.

HR.
===========
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have been there at
the outset to give it a firm push and set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up in June 1990, and the timing indicates someone from
university was responsible.

One thing which has been missing from this discussion is this simple
prognosis: that maybe he is right and that, despite his admitted
mental condition, there really is a campaign against him organised by
now-influential ex-students of his university.

In May or June 1990, Alan Freeman on Radio 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known me for a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went on
to say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote there". The
indication is strongly that people I had parted from soon before nursed a
grudge against me and were trying to cause trouble for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown the letter to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from the start the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce themselves as the
origin, but let the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe that they were the
originators. Think about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have a
campaign against this bloke" then people might not go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this bloke because he 'deserves' it"
then people will join in with fewer qualms.

Why would "they" wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a cripple to prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend hundreds of thousands of pounds and more
than six years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated by people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew me to be emotionally weak, and it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known to be weak; and because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment, which the security services
manipulate and derive funding from. This is England's biggest humiliation
today, and the British security services are intent on preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their campaign of attempted
murder to suppress the truth from becoming public.

177

[Gjest]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:28:57 GMT, Rowbotth <[email protected]>
wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

No, there isn't.

Jesus.

HR.
===========
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have been there at
the outset to give it a firm push and set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up in June 1990, and the timing indicates someone from
university was responsible.

One thing which has been missing from this discussion is this simple
prognosis: that maybe he is right and that, despite his admitted
mental condition, there really is a campaign against him organised by
now-influential ex-students of his university.

In May or June 1990, Alan Freeman on Radio 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known me for a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went on
to say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote there". The
indication is strongly that people I had parted from soon before nursed a
grudge against me and were trying to cause trouble for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown the letter to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from the start the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce themselves as the
origin, but let the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe that they were the
originators. Think about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have a
campaign against this bloke" then people might not go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this bloke because he 'deserves' it"
then people will join in with fewer qualms.

Why would "they" wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a cripple to prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend hundreds of thousands of pounds and more
than six years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated by people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew me to be emotionally weak, and it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known to be weak; and because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment, which the security services
manipulate and derive funding from. This is England's biggest humiliation
today, and the British security services are intent on preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their campaign of attempted
murder to suppress the truth from becoming public.

177

[Gjest]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:28:57 GMT, Rowbotth <[email protected]>
wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Jesus.

You could send an email to Jesus. or perhaps you could try the service
provider, unlike him they weren't born yesterday so they may know what
to do.
--
YouTube Video of MI5 HorrorFags; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e9x0TwHkbY
Jealous Gay Agents Masturbating Outside Window; http://www.mi5.com/evidence/#britspy
MI5 Tried to Kill Me in Florida 17/Nov/2001; http://www.mi5.com/evidence/#deathsquad
MindControl Torture and Proof It's Real; http://www.mi5.com/evidence/mc/mc.htm

[Dave Balderstone]

In article <[email protected]>, Rowbotth
<[email protected]> wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

First, stop quoting him.

Second, stop responding in any way whatsoever.

MY filters were working fine until you responded. I hadn't seen any of
it. Now I have to update them to include this stupid sub-thread.

Follow-up set.

[Gjest]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:38:39 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, Rowbotth
[email protected]> wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

First, stop quoting him.

Second, stop responding in any way whatsoever.

MY filters were working fine until you responded. I hadn't seen any of
it. Now I have to update them to include this stupid sub-thread.

Follow-up set.

And reset. You jumped-up fucker.

[J.J. O'Shea]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:28:57 -0500, Rowbotth wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Jesus.

drop his ass into a permanent, global, killfile. I did. This means that was
blissfully unaware that he was still posting until you replied to him. Don't
reply to him.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

[Allen]

Rowbotth wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Ruke 1:

DO -- NOT -- QUOTE -- CRACKPOTS----------EVER!!!!
Allen

[Stewy]

In article <[email protected]>,
Rowbotth <[email protected]> wrote:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Jesus.

HR.
===========
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have been there at

This joker has been around for years. He first started in
soc.culture.british (and others, I believe) years ago when before these
groups were taken over by the BritPakis who hate BritIndians, indians
who hate africans, africans who hate west indians and racist bigots who
hate everyone.

This loser thinks various people on BBC radio are carrying out a secret
vendetta against encouraged by sinister shadowy forces who want him out
of his council flat...

Best to humour him and let him get on with what he loves best - posting
long rants over the usenet and believing everyone is reading him with a
mixture of shock and awe.

[Twig]

Add him to killfile (block list) and even something is coming trough
-please always ignore (Do not feed the troll!)

Rowbotth kirjoitti:

How do we get rd of this clown? Is there someone we have to send an
email to, or what?

Jesus.

HR.
===========
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have been there at
the outset to give it a firm push and set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up in June 1990, and the timing indicates someone from
university was responsible.

One thing which has been missing from this discussion is this simple
prognosis: that maybe he is right and that, despite his admitted
mental condition, there really is a campaign against him organised by
now-influential ex-students of his university.
In May or June 1990, Alan Freeman on Radio 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known me for a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went on
to say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote there". The
indication is strongly that people I had parted from soon before nursed a
grudge against me and were trying to cause trouble for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown the letter to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from the start the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce themselves as the
origin, but let the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe that they were the
originators. Think about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have a
campaign against this bloke" then people might not go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this bloke because he 'deserves' it"
then people will join in with fewer qualms.

Why would "they" wish to assassinate your character?
It's the classic case of hitting a cripple to prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend hundreds of thousands of pounds and more
than six years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated by people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew me to be emotionally weak, and it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known to be weak; and because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment, which the security services
manipulate and derive funding from. This is England's biggest humiliation
today, and the British security services are intent on preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their campaign of attempted
murder to suppress the truth from becoming public.

177

[Laurence E Stephenson]

12/01/2007 1:23:26 PM

Hi ,
Right click on folder, left click on properties, see graph

"May all your brick walls be little ones."
--
Regards,
Laurence E Stephenson

http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/lauries/web/index.html

I am Researching:-
Butcher...........Stroud, Gloucestershire, England..................>1856
Fortune...........Berwickshire, Scotland................................>1858
Garlick............Liverpool, Lancashire, England......................>1863
Mee................Kilflyn, Limerick, Ireland (Palatine)................>1884
Payne..............Washingborough, Lincolnshire, England........>1863
Ritchie............Bonhill, Dunbartonshire, Scotland..................>1860
Stephenson.....Pickering, Yorkshire, England .......................>1856
Wittick............(Convict) Walsall, Staffordshire, England........>1822

Heartnet = Heart support = http://heartnet.cci.ecu.edu.au/

[singhals]

Laurence E Stephenson wrote:

12/01/2007 1:23:26 PM

Hi ,
Right click on folder, left click on properties, see graph

KISS principle at work. Congratulations, Laurence!

Cheryl

[Trevor Rix]

Tom,

Is there an easy way to learn what is the total size of a directory
and all of its subdirectories?

I'm running low on disk space and need to find the junk, among the
many sub-folders.

I recommend the program TreeSize that does exactly what you
describe, and lists the results in a Windows Explorer style display
in order of size of folder. TreeSize is a free download from

http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/index.shtml

Trevor Rix

[Laurence E Stephenson]

mutter mutter mutter....

The plural of 'Stephenson' is 'Stephensons'. The plural of 'photo'
is 'photos'.

14/01/2007 9:28:30 AM

Hi ,
Thanks for pointing out the errors.
It would have been nice to have a name to thank.

"May all your brick walls be little ones."
--
Regards,
Laurence E Stephenson

http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/lauries/web/index.html

I am Researching:-
Butcher...........Stroud, Gloucestershire, England..................>1856
Fortune...........Berwickshire, Scotland................................>1858
Garlick............Liverpool, Lancashire, England......................>1863
Mee................Kilflyn, Limerick, Ireland (Palatine)................>1884
Payne..............Washingborough, Lincolnshire, England........>1863
Ritchie............Bonhill, Dunbartonshire, Scotland..................>1860
Stephenson.....Pickering, Yorkshire, England .......................>1856
Wittick............(Convict) Walsall, Staffordshire, England........>1822

Heartnet = Heart support = http://heartnet.cci.ecu.edu.au/

[TomAlciere]

singhals wrote:

Laurence E Stephenson wrote:


12/01/2007 1:23:26 PM

Hi ,
Right click on folder, left click on properties, see graph

KISS principle at work. Congratulations, Laurence!

Cheryl

Thanks. This works, but slowly on a multi-gigabyte directory with
thousands of subdirectories and thousands of files in them.

Tom

[tim sewell]

"TomAlciere" <[email protected]> wrote

Thanks. This works, but slowly on a multi-gigabyte directory with
thousands of subdirectories and thousands of files in them.

Tom,

There is a little freeware program that might possibly be of some use to
you. It will at least give you a quick way to see which files may be
hogging more of your disk than you would like.

http://www.snapfiles.com/screenshots/sequoia.htm shows a screenshot
from Sequoiaview.

The "Squarified Cushion Treemap" shows every file on a disk, with square
coloured cushions proportional to the file size. That makes it easy to
pick out the larger files for review/deletion/whatever. A filesize
filter permits you to view only those files above a limiting size of
your choice. Each cushion is coloured according to its file type - EXE
files turquoise, CAB files magenta etc.

Hover your mouse over any cushion, and the name of the file appears.
To then see its properties, left click and up comes a menu which gives
options to Open the file, Explore its contens (for CAB, ZIP etc files)
or look at its Properties.

HTH,
Cheers,
--
Tim S.

(Please remove my fairly obvious spamtrap
if you wish to reply by direct email)

[tim sewell]

PS.

You can set Sequoia to show the file size as well as the filename when
you hover your mouse over a square.

I have not yet found a way to show the sizes of folders rather than
individual files, but you can set it to display a fence around all of
the cushions for every file in the same directory, which can give you a
good idea just how much space the whole directory takes up.

HTH,
Cheers,
--
Tim S.

(Please remove my fairly obvious spamtrap
if you wish to reply by direct email)

[singhals]

TomAlciere wrote:

singhals wrote:

Laurence E Stephenson wrote:


12/01/2007 1:23:26 PM

Hi ,
Right click on folder, left click on properties, see graph

KISS principle at work. Congratulations, Laurence!

Cheryl


Thanks. This works, but slowly on a multi-gigabyte directory with
thousands of subdirectories and thousands of files in them.

Tom

If it were easy, it wouldn't be fun?

Cheryl

[Fat Bastard]

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!

I guess I have to actually use a filter....

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Despite an orchestrated campaign of attempted censorship by UK-resident
newsgroup readers, TFN did not bow
to demands for a suppression of freedom of speech. TFN general policy on
the matter is as follows;

Draft Policy on Account Deactivations due to News Group Postings
================================================================

News group postings occasionally take the form of a message which goes
against the "topic" of the conference.
For example, a derogatory message about Canadians in the
soc.culture.canada.

Members of such news groups then may send a message to the system
administrators asking that a user's account
be terminated because of such posting.

The Toronto Free-Net Board of Directors has taken the position that the
only postings that will get a person's
account terminated is material that is illegal under Canadian law.
Otherwise, the Toronto Free-Net will not
take any action.

Freenet Executive Director Mike Anderson had this to say regarding the
continued attempts of a minority of usenet
participants to have my account on his system deactivated;

The TFN's policy is not to take action against members unless they
contravene the Criminal Code of Canada, or
engage in practices such as forgery, attacks against other computer
systems or mailbombing.

Mr. Corley, while possibly being very annoying, has not contravened the
TFN's policies. The TFN believes strongly
in freedom of expression, while recognizing that the price for such
freedom may be a high signal-to-noise ratio in Usenet.

If Mr. Corley breaks the law, we will take action -- until then, he has
the same rights as any TFN member to post
to Usenet newsgroups. Actions such as mailbombing the TFN in protest will
be met by strong complaints to the
originating site's postmaster. The best defense against unwanted postings
may be simply be to ignore them and deny
the poster an audience.

TFN Executive Director Toronto, Ont CANADA

Personally, I find it gratifying that my contributions to usenet
discussion are recognized as being conducive
to a high signal-to-noise ratio by their quality and thoughtfulness.

169


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Rebel Lion]

About Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:53:01 -0700, Fat Bastard wibbled of:

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!

So why the fillern did you have to quote the entire article back in order
to complain about it you tosser.

[Sauger]

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize
NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!



So why the fillern did you have to quote the entire article back in order
to complain about it you tosser.

You just did the same thing you Daft Cunt!



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Rebel Lion]

About Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:04:41 -0800, Sauger wibbled of:

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize
NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!



So why the fillern did you have to quote the entire article back in order
to complain about it you tosser.

You just did the same thing you Daft Cunt!

Bullshit I cut of the op. Try reading what I actually said rather than
what you assume I said before making such sweeping statements.

[Fat Bastard]

Because your mother wouldn't get off my cock long enough to let me snip any
of the post.

"Rebel Lion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

About Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:53:01 -0700, Fat Bastard wibbled of:

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize
NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!



So why the fillern did you have to quote the entire article back in order
to complain about it you tosser.

[Robert Leonard]

WHAT IS THIS???? CAN IT REALLY BE THAT THIS PERSON IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE??


On 1/26/07 10:02 PM, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

Today's Topics:

1. Re: MI5 Persecution: Toronto Freenet supports free speech
(169) (Fat Bastard)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:56:22 -0700
From: "Fat Bastard" <[email protected]
Subject: Re: MI5 Persecution: Toronto Freenet supports free speech
(169)
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]

Because your mother wouldn't get off my cock long enough to let me snip any
of the post.

"Rebel Lion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
About Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:53:01 -0700, Fat Bastard wibbled of:

Damn, why hasn't this jackhole been shut down yet? Does he not realize
NONE
of the groups he's posting to give a rats ass about him or his bullshit?
None of them are appropriate groups for the posts either!



So why the fillern did you have to quote the entire article back in order
to complain about it you tosser.




End of GENCMP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 44
*************************************

[Charani]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:37:28 -0800, Robert Leonard wrote:

WHAT IS THIS???? CAN IT REALLY BE THAT THIS PERSON IS ALLOWED TO
CONTINUE??

You are subscribed to a mailing list which is gatewayed to a
newsgroup. Anyone can post anything to a newsgroup because they are
not moderated in any way. The admin for the mailing list has no
jurisdiction over who or what is posted to the newsgroup.

The best way to deal with posts you don't like is to killfile the
perpetrator, not quote the entire offending post, not use the digest
mode.

Oh, and please don't shout.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:21:04 GMT, "Bob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

G'day,
The Y2K was not a software problem (as such). It was a hardware problem in
that the onboard memory of early computers had enough memory assigned to the
computer date function to handle ddmmyy. This meant that when the year
changed from 31/12/99 to 01/01/00 then all the programs that used the
computer time /date would "assume" that the year was 1900 instead of 2000.
The solution was not to upgrade your software but upgrade your hardware to a
mother board that had the necessary amount of computer memory to handle a 4
digit year instead of the previous 2 digit year. There was very little Y2K
drama for the simple reason that we were given lots of warning (time wise)
and most people upgraded their hardware before 2000 which negated the
EOTWAWKI threat.

Not so.

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

One of my favourite programs, which I use a lot for genealogy, has an
automatic date entry which enters todays date as 5 February 1107, and I have
to go back and correct it. At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the birth and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999

--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: [email protected] (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

[Charlie]

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:21:04 GMT, "Bob Jones" <[email protected]
wrote:

G'day,
The Y2K was not a software problem (as such). It was a hardware problem in
that the onboard memory of early computers had enough memory assigned to
the
computer date function to handle ddmmyy. This meant that when the year
changed from 31/12/99 to 01/01/00 then all the programs that used the
computer time /date would "assume" that the year was 1900 instead of 2000.
The solution was not to upgrade your software but upgrade your hardware to
a
mother board that had the necessary amount of computer memory to handle a
4
digit year instead of the previous 2 digit year. There was very little Y2K
drama for the simple reason that we were given lots of warning (time wise)
and most people upgraded their hardware before 2000 which negated the
EOTWAWKI threat.

Not so.

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

A bigger issue that I came across related to converting the history file of
transactions that had accumulated with a 'yy' format to a 'yyyy' format.
One's ability to remove an application system from an operational status for
the time necessary to convert the "master" file depended upon the importance
that the system had in the mind of the user. The higher the importance or
dependancy the less time one was given to convert the old system. One client
I was responsible for had a serious problem in that the system in question
was in use from 8 to 5, five days a week by in excess of 100 staff as a norm
and was expected to be available after hours until midnight from Monday to
Friday. When the revised system was ready for testing and conversion we were
told in no uncertain terms that the problem was ours, not theirs, and we
would have to find a method to correct the situation without taking the
operational system off-line for more than a week-end. Since the chances of
that happening were remote ( there were 100's of programs in the system and
some 50 to 75 files that would have to be converted) a different solution
was needed. The user also refused to run parallel systems until the bugs
were ironed out of the revised system.

IBM, I think it was, defined an algorithm that could be inserted in each
program that read the date that made some basic assumptions about whether
the 'yy' should have a '19' or a '20' placed in front of it. It worked and
the proper solution was put off for another day. So, in a number of
instances the problem is still there it is just more hidden. Perhaps the
system users should bear some responsibility for that problem.

One of my favourite programs, which I use a lot for genealogy, has an
automatic date entry which enters todays date as 5 February 1107, and I
have
to go back and correct it. At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the birth
and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999

--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: [email protected] (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

[mickg]

Steve Hayes wrote:

Not so.

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

One of my favourite programs, which I use a lot for genealogy, has an
automatic date entry which enters todays date as 5 February 1107, and I have
to go back and correct it. At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the birth and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999

I suggest you do a little reading about the Software Development Process
which with some organizational variability has been in place for many
years, having evolved from other earlier development and design
processes. Also of course confusing end user software such as Genealogy
software with the commercial software used by large organizations, such
as banks, is comparing chalk and cheese.

Programmers do not design or specify what they produce but rather
produce to meet formerly specific requirements made and/or approved by
management usually on the basis of specifications from marketing (not to
be confused with sales).

Thus the issues which became apparent in the Y2K issue which was, put
quite simply a result of storing the year in dates as 2 digit numbers
rather than 4 digits came down to specification provided by the
Marketing/Management combination. People who are traditionally notably
short sighted, not being able to see beyond the bottom line of the
annual balance sheet.

MickG

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:41:36 GMT, "Charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

That in itself seems fairly shortsighted. Even if the program were replaced,
in many instances people would want to keep the data.

A bigger issue that I came across related to converting the history file of
transactions that had accumulated with a 'yy' format to a 'yyyy' format.
One's ability to remove an application system from an operational status for
the time necessary to convert the "master" file depended upon the importance
that the system had in the mind of the user. The higher the importance or
dependancy the less time one was given to convert the old system. One client
I was responsible for had a serious problem in that the system in question
was in use from 8 to 5, five days a week by in excess of 100 staff as a norm
and was expected to be available after hours until midnight from Monday to
Friday. When the revised system was ready for testing and conversion we were
told in no uncertain terms that the problem was ours, not theirs, and we
would have to find a method to correct the situation without taking the
operational system off-line for more than a week-end. Since the chances of
that happening were remote ( there were 100's of programs in the system and
some 50 to 75 files that would have to be converted) a different solution
was needed. The user also refused to run parallel systems until the bugs
were ironed out of the revised system.

IBM, I think it was, defined an algorithm that could be inserted in each
program that read the date that made some basic assumptions about whether
the 'yy' should have a '19' or a '20' placed in front of it. It worked and
the proper solution was put off for another day. So, in a number of
instances the problem is still there it is just more hidden. Perhaps the
system users should bear some responsibility for that problem.

Genealogy programs have always needed to use dates that could be in more than
one century, so I was especially surprised that PAF did not take Y2K into
account.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:35:05 -0500, mickg <[email protected]>
declaimed the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

processes. Also of course confusing end user software such as Genealogy
software with the commercial software used by large organizations, such
as banks, is comparing chalk and cheese.

They're both high in calcium <G

--
bieber.genealogy Dennis Lee Bieber
HTTP://home.earthlink.net/~bieber.genealogy/

[joe.wakefield]

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:35:05 -0500, mickg
[email protected]> declaimed the following in
soc.genealogy.computing:


processes. Also of course confusing end user software such as
Genealogy software with the commercial software used by large
organizations, such as banks, is comparing chalk and cheese.

They're both high in calcium <G

As are old bones!

--
Joe
Wakefield

[Gjest]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:50:40 +0200, Steve Hayes
<[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:41:36 GMT, "Charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:


"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

That in itself seems fairly shortsighted. Even if the program were replaced,
in many instances people would want to keep the data.

When there is only 1.4K (yes 1.4K) of main (and no other) storage,
every BCD character (not byte) matters. Fitting a program into 1.4K
some 38 years before the millennium may have merited many descriptions
but shortsighted was never one of them.

---
brightside S9

[Peter J Seymour]

Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:21:04 GMT, "Bob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:


G'day,
The Y2K was not a software problem (as such). It was a hardware problem in
that the onboard memory of early computers had enough memory assigned to the
computer date function to handle ddmmyy. This meant that when the year
changed from 31/12/99 to 01/01/00 then all the programs that used the
computer time /date would "assume" that the year was 1900 instead of 2000.
The solution was not to upgrade your software but upgrade your hardware to a
mother board that had the necessary amount of computer memory to handle a 4
digit year instead of the previous 2 digit year. There was very little Y2K
drama for the simple reason that we were given lots of warning (time wise)
and most people upgraded their hardware before 2000 which negated the
EOTWAWKI threat.


Not so.

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

One of my favourite programs, which I use a lot for genealogy, has an
automatic date entry which enters todays date as 5 February 1107, and I have
to go back and correct it. At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the birth and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999

My experience is that the ability to produce good quality, maintainable

software varies enormously between computer departments. This is the
real Y2K issue, not hardware or software constraints. One company I
worked for progressively designed out any Y2K problem from about 1980
onwards. Another, as 2000 approached, put in a systematic effort to
eradicate any
remaining problems. It all went without a hitch for these companies.
I do find it strange that there is apparently still at least one
genealogical program that can't cope.
Regards
Peter

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:12:55 +0000, brightside@replyto_addy_is_not.invalid
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:50:40 +0200, Steve Hayes
[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:41:36 GMT, "Charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:


"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

That in itself seems fairly shortsighted. Even if the program were replaced,
in many instances people would want to keep the data.


When there is only 1.4K (yes 1.4K) of main (and no other) storage,
every BCD character (not byte) matters. Fitting a program into 1.4K
some 38 years before the millennium may have merited many descriptions
but shortsighted was never one of them.

I was thinking more of programs developed AFTER the Sinclair ZX 80.

And what's going to happen to Unix programs after 2038?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[joe.wakefield]

brightside@replyto_addy_is_not.invalid wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:50:40 +0200, Steve Hayes
[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:41:36 GMT, "Charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:


"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s,
but short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory
for two-digit years.

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post,
perhaps you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to
that presumed short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid
1960's, I never considered that any program created in that
time-frame would still be operating in 5 years time let alone 35
years.

That in itself seems fairly shortsighted. Even if the program were
replaced, in many instances people would want to keep the data.


When there is only 1.4K (yes 1.4K) of main (and no other) storage,
every BCD character (not byte) matters. Fitting a program into 1.4K
some 38 years before the millennium may have merited many descriptions
but shortsighted was never one of them.

---
brightside S9

Indeed, my TRS-80 Pocket Computer (bought in 1981 and still working) has
1424 byte memory. All programs are in basic. You learn to be very economical
with what to display when showing results.


--
Joe
Wakefield

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:35:05 -0500, mickg <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:

Not so.

Computers had enough memory to deal with it from the early 1980s, but
short-sighted programmers still only allocated enough memory for two-digit
years.

One of my favourite programs, which I use a lot for genealogy, has an
automatic date entry which enters todays date as 5 February 1107, and I have
to go back and correct it. At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the birth and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999


I suggest you do a little reading about the Software Development Process
which with some organizational variability has been in place for many
years, having evolved from other earlier development and design
processes. Also of course confusing end user software such as Genealogy
software with the commercial software used by large organizations, such
as banks, is comparing chalk and cheese.

Programmers do not design or specify what they produce but rather
produce to meet formerly specific requirements made and/or approved by
management usually on the basis of specifications from marketing (not to
be confused with sales).

Thus the issues which became apparent in the Y2K issue which was, put
quite simply a result of storing the year in dates as 2 digit numbers
rather than 4 digits came down to specification provided by the
Marketing/Management combination. People who are traditionally notably
short sighted, not being able to see beyond the bottom line of the
annual balance sheet.

All of which is not really relevant, since we are talking about genealogy and
genealogy software here.

Perhaps, however, PAF was specified by a marketing department.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[John Cartmell]

In article <AVRxh.900521$5R2.644536@pd7urf3no>,
Charlie <[email protected]> wrote:

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

I certainly don't quibble about programmers from the 60s. It's the specific
Windows problems that were still being ignored by Microsoft in the 90s that I
find unacceptable. In general it wasn't a 'computer' problem - rather a legacy
(ie 60s and 70s computers) problem - which was understandable - and a
Microsoft problem - which was neither understandable nor forgivable. It would
have been appropriate for users to let Microsoft go to the wall for that
'mistake'; they were showered with money instead.

--
John

[Allen]

Charlie wrote:

Being one of the short-sighted programmers referenced in your post, perhaps
you may want to cogitate upon a couple of issues related to that presumed
short-sightedness.

First, and as one who programmed mainframe computers from the mid 1960's, I
never considered that any program created in that time-frame would still be
operating in 5 years time let alone 35 years.

A bigger issue that I came across related to converting the history file of
transactions that had accumulated with a 'yy' format to a 'yyyy' format.
One's ability to remove an application system from an operational status for
the time necessary to convert the "master" file depended upon the importance
that the system had in the mind of the user. The higher the importance or
dependancy the less time one was given to convert the old system. One client
I was responsible for had a serious problem in that the system in question
was in use from 8 to 5, five days a week by in excess of 100 staff as a norm
and was expected to be available after hours until midnight from Monday to
Friday. When the revised system was ready for testing and conversion we were
told in no uncertain terms that the problem was ours, not theirs, and we
would have to find a method to correct the situation without taking the
operational system off-line for more than a week-end. Since the chances of
that happening were remote ( there were 100's of programs in the system and
some 50 to 75 files that would have to be converted) a different solution
was needed. The user also refused to run parallel systems until the bugs
were ironed out of the revised system.

IBM, I think it was, defined an algorithm that could be inserted in each
program that read the date that made some basic assumptions about whether
the 'yy' should have a '19' or a '20' placed in front of it. It worked and
the proper solution was put off for another day. So, in a number of
instances the problem is still there it is just more hidden. Perhaps the
system users should bear some responsibility for that problem.




You apparently never programmed for a bank. Mortgage loan maturities 40

to 50 years away (on commercial properties) and instalment loans with
eight-year payout schedules highlighted the Y2K issue from the start. My
bank didn't have to worry about this in 1962, when we first started to
pragram for an IBM 1401 with a whopping 4K of memory, but by 1966 and
the arrival of our first IBM 360 Mod 30, with a gigantic 16K, we were
getting into mortgage loan processing and all dates were expressed as
yyyy. Also, the time constraints you fretted about were SOP in banking;
three-day weekends were a programmer's dream, as they had an extra whole
day for testing and tweaking. I wasn't officially a programmer, but a
banker who knew as much about computers as most of our programmers did,
to the extent that I sometimes helped debug IBM assembly language
programs. I was in charge of converting our Trust Department from a
manual posting system back in the earlyish 1970s. We scheduled two full
weekends for the conversion, but signed off fully converted and tested
at 4:00 PM on the first Saturday; this was the result of meticulous
planning, testing and before-hand data conversion. I handled a fairly
large number of conversions and on only one did I miss the established
deadline, because I was in the hospital undergoing surgery. The big
secret to successful data processing operations in organizations is
simply communication and mutual understanding. I used to tell people
that I was tri-lingual, that I spoke Banker, Programmer, and
English--three different languages.

Allen

[Richard van Schaik]

Peter J Seymour wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:

At least it can calculate the date correctly,
thoguht, unlike earlier versions of PAF, which report errors in the
birth and
death dates of anyone born or died after 31 Dec 1999
I do find it strange that there is apparently still at least one
genealogical program that can't cope.

An older version of a genealogical program. My version does not have any
problem with a death date on 29 Sep 2006 or a marriage date on 20 Feb 2002.

Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
[email protected]
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

[Robert M. Riches Jr.]

On 2007-02-06, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking more of programs developed AFTER the Sinclair ZX 80.

And what's going to happen to Unix programs after 2038?

How about Y10K, when four digits aren't enough? Now, who's
shortsighted? 1/2

--
Robert Riches
[email protected]
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[Allen]

Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

On 2007-02-06, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote:

I was thinking more of programs developed AFTER the Sinclair ZX 80.

And what's going to happen to Unix programs after 2038?


How about Y10K, when four digits aren't enough? Now, who's
shortsighted? 1/2

I'll get back with next year on that.
Allen

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:12:55 +0000,
brightside@replyto_addy_is_not.invalid declaimed the following in
soc.genealogy.computing:

When there is only 1.4K (yes 1.4K) of main (and no other) storage,
every BCD character (not byte) matters. Fitting a program into 1.4K
some 38 years before the millennium may have merited many descriptions
but shortsighted was never one of them.

My college mainframe (Xerox Sigma 6 -- late 60s early 70s big-iron)

had been expanded to a whopping megabyte of main memory. That supported
up to around 50 simultaneous terminal connections. We had 6 100MB
washing machine disk drives (and later obtained two 300MB drives just to
support the paging/swap file). This machine not only supported the CS
students, but also ran the registration and administrative stuff.

Note that: two 300MB drives for page/swap supporting up to 50 users.
That's about 12MB per user, and only about 20KB of memory per user
depending on load (and ignoring that the OS needs some of that).

My current desktop machine has a page/swap file over a gigabyte is
size, and 2000 times the main memory!
--
bieber.genealogy Dennis Lee Bieber
HTTP://home.earthlink.net/~bieber.genealogy/