swedish ancestor with British Merchants?

[Laurie S]

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British Merchants".
This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter & my
ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children in
Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at age
16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why my
swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?

Thank you,
Laurie

[Hugh Watkins]

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British Merchants". This
is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter & my ggrandmother. I
know Johan later married twice and had children in Sweden and left there to
come to America but don't where he was at age 16. Does anyone have any info
that would give me insight to why my swedish relative at 16 might be a
sailor in the British Merchants (Marine's I guess)?

what year ???????????????????????????????????????

to escape from boring Sweden and the alcohol rules


LOL

Hugh W

[Laurie S]

Hugh Watkins wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British Merchants". This
is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter & my ggrandmother. I
know Johan later married twice and had children in Sweden and left there to
come to America but don't where he was at age 16. Does anyone have any info
that would give me insight to why my swedish relative at 16 might be a
sailor in the British Merchants (Marine's I guess)?



what year ???????????????????????????????????????

to escape from boring Sweden and the alcohol rules


LOL

Hugh W


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.

Laurie

[Stein R]

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Hugh Watkins wrote:
"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?

<snip>

Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie

This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community "Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein

[Hugh Watkins]

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Hugh Watkins wrote:
"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British Merchants".
This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter & my
ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children in Sweden
and left there to come to America but don't where he was at age 16. Does
anyone have any info that would give me insight to why my swedish
relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants (Marine's I
guess)?



what year ???????????????????????????????????????

to escape from boring Sweden and the alcohol rules


LOL

Hugh W
Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie

OK

no obvious hits 1861 or 1881 census

if you look at crew list you see a mixtiure of nationalaites just like today
It was a way to see the world
some jumped ship in a forign port migrating in that way

"British Merchants "
would have a diffeent meaning accordin to the nationality of the person who
wrote it

no inspiration

Hugh W

[Laurie S]

Stein R wrote:

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


Hugh Watkins wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community "Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein



Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I didn't

know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by "sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on a
ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie

[Stein R]

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in news:v76dnd_tFMoFy2TfRVn-
[email protected]:

Stein R wrote:
Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden,
and the caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor
British Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin
Linden, his daughter & my ggrandmother. I know Johan later
married twice and had children in Sweden and left there to
come to America but don't where he was at age 16. Does anyone
have any info that would give me insight to why my swedish
relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?

snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie

This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are
you trying to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a
Swede might be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British
merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community
"Anbytarforum", which seems to be *the* place for Swedish
genealogy inquiries - URL http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein

Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I
didn't know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would
employ Swedes but of course that makes sense. I didn't know what
was meant by "sailor in British Merchants". I thought "sailor"
meant he actually sailed on a ship and maybe he did but I can
see more likely he worked at the harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie

I think you misunderstood me. I was *not* saying that the *English*
word "sailor" could have meant "dock worker" or some such thing.

I was merely trying to point out that English ships would also call
on ports in Sweden, and that in the olden days they found new crew
members where they could. If a British ship was a sailor short in
Gothenburg,they might as well hire on a Swede as sail back to Britain
to find a new British sailor.

But if you want to find you Johan Viktor Linden, do try the website
I gave you - maybe someone even can find out what ship he was on, and
tell you more about your ancestors.

Smile,
Stein

[Kurt F]

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stein R wrote:
Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


Hugh Watkins wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community "Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein



Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I didn't
know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by "sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on a
ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie

I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F

[Laurie S]

Kurt F wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stein R wrote:

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:



Hugh Watkins wrote:


"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community "Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I didn't
know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by "sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on a
ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F


Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are

listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland province.
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

???
Laurie

[Hugh Watkins]

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in

snpped

I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community "Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I didn't
know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by "sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on a
ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or
Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F


Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are
listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland
province.
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

a very early photgraph?

are you certaian about the date and person?


see below

Hugh W

================================0

Book Reviews
Family Photographs 1860-1945

Q1) How important is it to have a technical understanding?
Q2) Were photographs only for the very wealthy?
snipped


Robert Pols is a long established expert on understanding historic
photographs. His previous titles include "Dating Old Photographs",
"Understanding Old Photographs", and "Looking at Old Photographs".
"Family Photographs 1860-1945" is his latest book.

We had a chat with Robert about some of the topics in the book and asked him
to choose an image from this website to discuss.


Question 1
FamilyRecords: How important is it to have a technical understanding of
photography and the printing process to be able to age a photograph?
RP: To identify process of format is very helpful in aging a photograph -
although it could give you a wide span of years - it would be a start. It is
useful to have a working idea of the main processes. A rough notion of how
it works - the transformation of an image onto metal, glass or paper - that
magic is part of the appeal.
Some techniques span a number of years, techniques were refined over time
but each new invention spread fast and widely (internationally). E.g. the
daguerreotype of the 1840s and 1850s was superceded by the wet collodian
process which was cheaper and more popular. If an image is printed directly
onto glass, it is most likely to be from the third quarter of the 19th
century. In the 1870s the "Carte de Visite" and cabinet prints really took
off. In fact, such was the craze for Carte de Visites that it got its own
name - "cartomania".

Question 2
FamilyRecords: Were photographs for everyone or were they out of reach for
all but the very wealthy?
RP: At first only the very wealthy could afford a photograph - at 1 Guinea,
the daguerreotype might have been slightly cheaper than having a portrait
painted, but at that time, a Guinea would have been more than a week's wages
for most people, and several weeks' wages for many.<<<
more
http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/guides/ ... eview3.htm

[Kurt F]

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Kurt F wrote:
"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stein R wrote:

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:



Hugh Watkins wrote:


"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden, and
the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his
daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had children
in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't where he was
at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to why
my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British Merchants
(Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults needing
employment in 1859. The population would be rising (eventually
triggering mass emigration to America) at that time, so it would be
harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community
"Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries - URL
http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I didn't
know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by "sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on a
ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or
Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F


Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are
listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland
province.
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

You are of course right. I found them by searching on the dates and the
ages. Funny though that they didn´t show up when searching for "Linden",
"Lindén" or "Lindèn". When I searched for "Lind" and the emigration date,
they showed up.

Elisabet (and the children) are denoted from Stenby parish in U län, the län
obviously wrong. There is no Stenby parish in Västmanlands län.
The Stenby parish in Östergötland, close to Motala, is named Västra Stenby.
There is another Stenby parish, close to Norrköping, named Östra Stenby.

Sorry for the confusion
Kurt F

[Stein R]

"Kurt F" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Kurt F wrote:
"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stein R wrote:

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:



Hugh Watkins wrote:


"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden,
and
the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his
daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had
children in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't
where he was
at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to
why my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British
Merchants (Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you
trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede
might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially
Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults
needing employment in 1859. The population would be rising
(eventually triggering mass emigration to America) at that time,
so it would be harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community
"Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries -
URL http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I
didn't know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would
employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by
"sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on
a ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or
Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F


Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are
listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland
province.
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

You are of course right. I found them by searching on the dates and
the ages. Funny though that they didn´t show up when searching for
"Linden", "Lindén" or "Lindèn". When I searched for "Lind" and the
emigration date, they showed up.

Elisabet (and the children) are denoted from Stenby parish in U län,
the län obviously wrong. There is no Stenby parish in Västmanlands
län. The Stenby parish in Östergötland, close to Motala, is named
Västra Stenby. There is another Stenby parish, close to Norrköping,
named Östra Stenby.

Sorry for the confusion
Kurt F

Yep - they are shown as emigrants from the parish of Västra Stenby
in the church departure book (Östergötland, Västra Stenby, BI:1:103,
Genline ID GID 423.19.5700, line 18). "On 7 OCt 1883, Skogv(aktara)
Joh(an) Victor Linden <illegible>, one male, one ? female, departed
farm Folehagen <crossreference to page 179 in the household exami-
nation book covering Västra Stenby for 1883> for North America".

The household examination book covering 1883 is Västra Stenby AI:13
(Household exams 1879-1884). Page 179 (423.13.2800) lists the entire
family - seems like Victor's wife Emma Charlotta Johansson, born 5
july 1845 died on 6 oct 1879.

On 6 Oct 1879 Victor (who was born 30 April 1842 in Lennäs parish,
and moved to Västra Stenby from Kulla parish in 1862) remarried
Christina Elisabeth Andersson, born 5 July 1845 in Molltorp ? parish.

Victor and Emma had at least five children still alive at the time
the household exam was done, ie between 1879 amd 1884.

Son Victor Emil, born 31 oct 1868 in Kulla parish
Daughter Emma Victoria, born 17 Apr 1872 in Kulla parish
Daughter Bertha Charlotta, born 5 Feb 1874 in Västra Steby parish
Daughter Therese, born 19 May 1875 in Västra Steby parish
Son Knut ? Anton, born 18 Oct 1878 in Västra Steby parish

Victor and Christina had at least one child:
Daughter Elise, born 21 Jun 1881 in Västra Steby parish

They all left the farm in the period 1879-1884. Mmmm - interesting.
The records does not say when the wife left the farm (she might have
left with the husband, or with the youngest daughter).

The father (Victor), the daugher Emma Victoria, and the daughter
Therese left on 7 Oct 1883, cross reference line 18 on the 1883
emigration records. It must say 1 male, 2 females on line 18,not
1 male, 1 female as I read it as.

The son Victor Emil left for Motala parish on 24 Oct 1884 - cross-
reference line 49 on the 1884 departure records.

The two last children. Knut Anton (born 1878) and Elise (born 1881)
are notes as departing for North America on 5 May 1884, record no
12 and 13 in the 1884 departure records.

Going back to the departure records for 1884, line 12 and 13. Yep,
on 5 May 1884 the two youngest kids depart for America. No one else
departs the same parish on the same date.

Knut would be 1884-1878 = 6 years old, Elise would be 3 years old.
They must be accompanied by adults - but maybe someone departing
from a different parish. Possible that someone with access to the
emigration CD can check May 1884 for Lindens from Västra Stensby
and see who they travelled with.

Now - it is time to get yourself a good book on Swedish genealogy,
fork out a little money for internet access to images of the church
registers via http://www.genline.se, and start digging backwards - as you
can see - Swedish records are extremely thorough, with cross refe-
rences etc.

Grin,
Stein, who got curious, but don't have time to do other people's
research for them

[Kurt F]

"Stein R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

"Kurt F" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Kurt F wrote:
"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stein R wrote:

Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:



Hugh Watkins wrote:


"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden,
and
the
caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his
daughter
& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had
children in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't
where he was
at
age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to
why my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British
Merchants (Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you
trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede
might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially
Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults
needing employment in 1859. The population would be rising
(eventually triggering mass emigration to America) at that time,
so it would be harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community
"Anbytarforum",
which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries -
URL http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I
didn't know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would
employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by
"sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on
a ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or
Lindén)
found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F


Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are
listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland
province.
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

You are of course right. I found them by searching on the dates and
the ages. Funny though that they didn´t show up when searching for
"Linden", "Lindén" or "Lindèn". When I searched for "Lind" and the
emigration date, they showed up.

Elisabet (and the children) are denoted from Stenby parish in U län,
the län obviously wrong. There is no Stenby parish in Västmanlands
län. The Stenby parish in Östergötland, close to Motala, is named
Västra Stenby. There is another Stenby parish, close to Norrköping,
named Östra Stenby.

Sorry for the confusion
Kurt F

Yep - they are shown as emigrants from the parish of Västra Stenby
in the church departure book (Östergötland, Västra Stenby, BI:1:103,
Genline ID GID 423.19.5700, line 18). "On 7 OCt 1883, Skogv(aktara)
Joh(an) Victor Linden <illegible>, one male, one ? female, departed
farm Folehagen <crossreference to page 179 in the household exami-
nation book covering Västra Stenby for 1883> for North America".

The household examination book covering 1883 is Västra Stenby AI:13
(Household exams 1879-1884). Page 179 (423.13.2800) lists the entire
family - seems like Victor's wife Emma Charlotta Johansson, born 5
july 1845 died on 6 oct 1879.

On 6 Oct 1879 Victor (who was born 30 April 1842 in Lennäs parish,
and moved to Västra Stenby from Kulla parish in 1862) remarried
Christina Elisabeth Andersson, born 5 July 1845 in Molltorp ? parish.

Victor and Emma had at least five children still alive at the time
the household exam was done, ie between 1879 amd 1884.

Son Victor Emil, born 31 oct 1868 in Kulla parish
Daughter Emma Victoria, born 17 Apr 1872 in Kulla parish
Daughter Bertha Charlotta, born 5 Feb 1874 in Västra Steby parish
Daughter Therese, born 19 May 1875 in Västra Steby parish
Son Knut ? Anton, born 18 Oct 1878 in Västra Steby parish

Victor and Christina had at least one child:
Daughter Elise, born 21 Jun 1881 in Västra Steby parish

They all left the farm in the period 1879-1884. Mmmm - interesting.
The records does not say when the wife left the farm (she might have
left with the husband, or with the youngest daughter).

The father (Victor), the daugher Emma Victoria, and the daughter
Therese left on 7 Oct 1883, cross reference line 18 on the 1883
emigration records. It must say 1 male, 2 females on line 18,not
1 male, 1 female as I read it as.

The son Victor Emil left for Motala parish on 24 Oct 1884 - cross-
reference line 49 on the 1884 departure records.

The two last children. Knut Anton (born 1878) and Elise (born 1881)
are notes as departing for North America on 5 May 1884, record no
12 and 13 in the 1884 departure records.

Going back to the departure records for 1884, line 12 and 13. Yep,
on 5 May 1884 the two youngest kids depart for America. No one else
departs the same parish on the same date.

Knut would be 1884-1878 = 6 years old, Elise would be 3 years old.
They must be accompanied by adults - but maybe someone departing
from a different parish. Possible that someone with access to the
emigration CD can check May 1884 for Lindens from Västra Stensby
and see who they travelled with.

The Emigranten CD gives:
Theresia Lindin, Age 10 and
Knut, age 6, both from Motala
left Göteborg 1884-05-16, bound for New York.
They didn´t have any adult travelling on the same contract. There were in
total 15 persons from Motala who left Göteborg on that date.
Elise doesn´t show up.

Now - it is time to get yourself a good book on Swedish genealogy,
fork out a little money for internet access to images of the church
registers via http://www.genline.se, and start digging backwards - as you
can see - Swedish records are extremely thorough, with cross refe-
rences etc.

I´ll second that...
Kurt F

[Claude J]

The OP ( who seems to be in the USA ), might get on the mailinglist of this
group, who are an affiliate of Genline Se. They have subscription deals
available.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Connie Whitmore and Kathy Meade
Genline North America

------------------------------------------------------------
email: [email protected]
phone: 613 224 7333
web: http://www.genline.com

--
Claude

[Laurie S]

Kurt F wrote:

"Stein R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

"Kurt F" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Kurt F wrote:

"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


Stein R wrote:


Laurie S <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:




Hugh Watkins wrote:



"Laurie S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...




I have a picture of my gggrandfather, who was born in Sweden,
and

the

caption reads "Johan Viktor Linden, age 16, sailor British
Merchants". This is from the photo album of Elin Linden, his

daughter

& my ggrandmother. I know Johan later married twice and had
children in Sweden and left there to come to America but don't
where he was

at

age 16. Does anyone have any info that would give me insight to
why my swedish relative at 16 might be a sailor in the British
Merchants (Marine's I guess)?


snip


Sorry, he was born Apr 1842 so 16 yrs old 1858-1859.
Laurie


This may be a stupid question from me, but what exactly are you
trying
to figure out ?

Why a sixteen year old might be a sailor in 1859, or why a Swede
might
be working as a sailor on a ship owned by British merchants ?

British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially
Gothenburg,
and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults
needing employment in 1859. The population would be rising
(eventually triggering mass emigration to America) at that time,
so it would be harder to find work closer to home.

Or are you trying to figure out exactly why *your* ancestor hired
on to a ship, what ship he was on and so forth ?

Can't help you there, but try the Swedish web community

"Anbytarforum",

which seems to be *the* place for Swedish genealogy inquiries -
URL http://genealogi.aland.net/discus/

Good luck,

Smile,
Stein




Thank you, Stein. I actually was wondering all of the above. I
didn't know about British ships in Swedish harbors that would
employ Swedes but
of course that makes sense. I didn't know what was meant by
"sailor in
British Merchants". I thought "sailor" meant he actually sailed on
a ship and maybe he did but I can see more likely he worked at the
harbors. Thank you for the info.
Laurie


I looked in the Swedish Emigranten CD, and there were no Linden (or

Lindén)

found. Could he have changed name in the US?

Kurt F



Interesting because I had been previously told he and his family are
listed in there as follows:
Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, from the town Motala in Östergötland

province.

Emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883 to New York.
Travelling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, from Stenby parish (5 km south of Motala).
Emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883 to New York.
Travelling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

You are of course right. I found them by searching on the dates and
the ages. Funny though that they didn´t show up when searching for
"Linden", "Lindén" or "Lindèn". When I searched for "Lind" and the
emigration date, they showed up.

Elisabet (and the children) are denoted from Stenby parish in U län,
the län obviously wrong. There is no Stenby parish in Västmanlands
län. The Stenby parish in Östergötland, close to Motala, is named
Västra Stenby. There is another Stenby parish, close to Norrköping,
named Östra Stenby.

Sorry for the confusion
Kurt F

Yep - they are shown as emigrants from the parish of Västra Stenby
in the church departure book (Östergötland, Västra Stenby, BI:1:103,
Genline ID GID 423.19.5700, line 18). "On 7 OCt 1883, Skogv(aktara)
Joh(an) Victor Linden <illegible>, one male, one ? female, departed
farm Folehagen <crossreference to page 179 in the household exami-
nation book covering Västra Stenby for 1883> for North America".

The household examination book covering 1883 is Västra Stenby AI:13
(Household exams 1879-1884). Page 179 (423.13.2800) lists the entire
family - seems like Victor's wife Emma Charlotta Johansson, born 5
july 1845 died on 6 oct 1879.

On 6 Oct 1879 Victor (who was born 30 April 1842 in Lennäs parish,
and moved to Västra Stenby from Kulla parish in 1862) remarried
Christina Elisabeth Andersson, born 5 July 1845 in Molltorp ? parish.

Victor and Emma had at least five children still alive at the time
the household exam was done, ie between 1879 amd 1884.

Son Victor Emil, born 31 oct 1868 in Kulla parish
Daughter Emma Victoria, born 17 Apr 1872 in Kulla parish
Daughter Bertha Charlotta, born 5 Feb 1874 in Västra Steby parish
Daughter Therese, born 19 May 1875 in Västra Steby parish
Son Knut ? Anton, born 18 Oct 1878 in Västra Steby parish

Victor and Christina had at least one child:
Daughter Elise, born 21 Jun 1881 in Västra Steby parish

They all left the farm in the period 1879-1884. Mmmm - interesting.
The records does not say when the wife left the farm (she might have
left with the husband, or with the youngest daughter).

The father (Victor), the daugher Emma Victoria, and the daughter
Therese left on 7 Oct 1883, cross reference line 18 on the 1883
emigration records. It must say 1 male, 2 females on line 18,not
1 male, 1 female as I read it as.

The son Victor Emil left for Motala parish on 24 Oct 1884 - cross-
reference line 49 on the 1884 departure records.

The two last children. Knut Anton (born 1878) and Elise (born 1881)
are notes as departing for North America on 5 May 1884, record no
12 and 13 in the 1884 departure records.

Going back to the departure records for 1884, line 12 and 13. Yep,
on 5 May 1884 the two youngest kids depart for America. No one else
departs the same parish on the same date.

Knut would be 1884-1878 = 6 years old, Elise would be 3 years old.
They must be accompanied by adults - but maybe someone departing
from a different parish. Possible that someone with access to the
emigration CD can check May 1884 for Lindens from Västra Stensby
and see who they travelled with.


The Emigranten CD gives:
Theresia Lindin, Age 10 and
Knut, age 6, both from Motala
left Göteborg 1884-05-16, bound for New York.
They didn´t have any adult travelling on the same contract. There were in
total 15 persons from Motala who left Göteborg on that date.
Elise doesn´t show up.


Now - it is time to get yourself a good book on Swedish genealogy,
fork out a little money for internet access to images of the church
registers via http://www.genline.se, and start digging backwards - as you
can see - Swedish records are extremely thorough, with cross refe-
rences etc.


I´ll second that...
Kurt F


My original request was some insight to a comment, sailor British

Merchant, written next to a picture of Johan Viktor Linden in an album
of his daughter, Elin Linden. I VERY much appreciate all the info from
all of you and I understand the issue of time, I have a 4yr old & a 20
month old who still gets up 2-10x/night.

Right now I'm concentrating on the Jackson side of my Jackson-Linden
line because there are a few living relatives left. I do know quite a
bit about the Linden's but there is some conflicting info that I haven't
been able to resolve but when I start seriously researching their line I
will "fork out a little money" on genline.se, which is incredibly
expensive but I could afford the 20 day trial for $26. I do have a book
"Cradled in Sweden" which is good unless you have a suggestion for a
better one.

Here's what I already knew:
Johan Viktor Linden b. 4/30/1842 in Lennas 1st married Emma Charlotta
Johansdotter abt.7/1868. Emma was b. 7/5/1845 in Stragnas, 1st Communion
at Harads Church on 6/24/1860 and d. 10/6/1879. Her parents were Johan
Gabriel Jans(Jansson) & Maria Christina Jansdotter.

Their children were:
Victor Emil b. 10/31/1868 in Kulla and never emigrated to America.

Emma Victoria b. 4/17/1872 in Kulla, married George Lyman Damon
10/28/1892 in US.

Berta Charlotta b.2/5/1874 in Vastra Stenby, married Joseph Latham
Bowden in 1900 in US, they had 1 child. Berta died 12/6/1935 in Teaneck, NJ.

Therese Johansdotter Linden b. 6/19/1876 in Vastra Stenby.

Knut Anton b. 10/18/1878 in married Jenny abt. 1908-1909 in US. They had
Victor H. & Robert E. both b. in WI.

Supposedly they had another child after Knut.

Johan's 2nd wife was Elisabet/Christina Elizabeth Andersson b. 7/20/1847
in Molltrop. Her parents were Anders Jacobsson & Maria Stina
Svensdotter. They married 7/2/1880. In Sweden the had Elin, my
gggrandmother, 6/21/1881 in Motala. After they came to the US they had
son Henry 6/1889 in NY. He died in 1918. Johan and Elisabet are buried
at Angelus-Rosedale Cemetery in Los Angeles, CA.

Elin married 1st Joseph Flahive on 5/31/1905 in Oakland, CA. They had 2
children. 2nd she married my ggrandfather, Harry Ford Jackson 10/31/1914
in Santa Ana, CA. They had 2 children, 1 my grandmother Elinor Harriet
Jackson who is still living. Harry & Elin are buried at Pacific Crest
Cemetery in Long Beach, CA.

The emigration records I have are:

Johan Victor Lindén, age 41, emigrated via Gothenburg port 20 April 1883
to New York. Traveling with daughter Berta, age 9.

Elisabet Lindén, age 36, emigrated via Gothenburg port 12 October 1883
to New York. Traveling with Charlotta, age 10, and Elin, age 2.

The father (Victor), the daughter Emma Victoria, and the daughter
Therese left on 7 Oct 1883, cross reference line 18 on the 1883
emigration records.

Knut Anton (born 1878) and Elise departed for North America on 5 May 1884.

Theresia Linden, Age 10 and Knut, age 6, left Göteborg 1884-05-16, bound
for New York.

Johan Viktor and Emma & Berta went to US 10/7/1883.

Christina and Therese, Knut & Elin went to US 5/5/1889.

I even have a number of pictures of them thanks to Elin. Anyway, I have
done lots of research and will do more when the time comes.

Thank you, Laurie

[Stein R]

Hi Laurie --

Sorry, guess I made an unwarranted assumption that you were
just another unprepared newbie that were fishing for someone
else to do your work for you.

Once again the old comment "there is at least one ass in every
assumption" has proved true

I do apologize. Okay, back to your original question.

You do know that Johan Victor Lindèn was born in Lännes parish on
30 April 1842. You also know that he was living in Kulla parish on
31 Oct 1868 - ie at age 26. You will find the farm he lived on in
Kulla from the birth record of his son.

So obviously you can backtrack from Kulla household exams, and see
when he arrived in Kulla and from where. Or you can go forward from
Lännes and see when he left Lännes and for where, to try to establish
where he was around age 16.

But I do not know how you can find a sailor and on what ship he might
have been. But the advice I gave you originally - try anbytarforum, is
still good - the people over there are pretty darned good at finding
stuff and providing good advice.

Grin,
Stein, also a parent of small kids

[Laurie S]

Stein R wrote:

Hi Laurie --

Sorry, guess I made an unwarranted assumption that you were
just another unprepared newbie that were fishing for someone
else to do your work for you.

Once again the old comment "there is at least one ass in every
assumption" has proved true

I do apologize. Okay, back to your original question.

You do know that Johan Victor Lindèn was born in Lännes parish on
30 April 1842. You also know that he was living in Kulla parish on
31 Oct 1868 - ie at age 26. You will find the farm he lived on in
Kulla from the birth record of his son.

So obviously you can backtrack from Kulla household exams, and see
when he arrived in Kulla and from where. Or you can go forward from
Lännes and see when he left Lännes and for where, to try to establish
where he was around age 16.

But I do not know how you can find a sailor and on what ship he might
have been. But the advice I gave you originally - try anbytarforum, is
still good - the people over there are pretty darned good at finding
stuff and providing good advice.

Grin,
Stein, also a parent of small kids
Thank you Stein, appreciated. I've been doing research for a few years

and try not to ask people to do my research for me but do ask when I'm
stuck or beleive there is a record available I can't find or access. I
used to have a ancestry.com subscription but then my husband got laid of
twice and it's definitely not in our budget right now. Any info I get
from other people I make sure I always do my own research anyway to back
it up. I found the anbytarforum so I'll search through that.

Thank you for telling me how I can proceed to find Johan when he was 16
and see if that helps explain the picture. I think your comment earlier
makes sense "British ships would put into Swedish harbors, especially
Gothenburg,and 16 year olds would be old enough to be considered adults
needing employment in 1859."

Thank you again, Laurie
P.S. the children are napping!