Complete Peerage Addition: Parentage of Elizabeth, wife of W

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Newsgroup ~

The authoritative Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 101-102 (sub Aldeburgh)
has a brief account of the history of Sir William de Aldeburgh, Knt.
(died 1388), 1st Lord Aldeburgh. Regarding the parentage of his wife,
Elizabeth, who died in or before 1378, the following information is
supplied in footnote e on page 101:

"Most genealogists assume that Elizabeth was sister of Robert [de
Lisle], though Ralph Brooke (Discoverie of certaine Errours in the
Britannia, 1596, p. 66) denies this, and says she was the sister of
John, Robert's father. But there is no known authority for either
relationship. The arms of L'Isle, and those of Aldeburgh (as above),
occur among those seen by Glover at Harewood. (Foster, ut supra, pp.
466-8). V.G." END OF QUOTE.

Thus, while Mr. Gibbs, the editor of Complete Peerage, questions
Elizabeth de Aldeburgh's parentage, he leaves the door open to the
possibility that she might have been a Lisle.

That she was neither the sister of Robert de Lisle, nor of his father,
is proven, however, by Elizabeth de Aldeburgh's own seal which has
been available in print since 1896. A description of this seal is
found in Birch, Catalogue of Seals in the British Museum, volume 2,
pg. 412 as follows:

Elizabeth, wife of William de Aldeburgh.
6801. [A.D. 1368]. Red: fine but fragmentary, [Add. ch. 26,770.]
An angel, half-length, wearing an embroidered robe, supporting before
him two small shields of arms: dex., a lion rampant, Aldeburgh (see
previous seal), sin., a lion rampant. Within a carved gothic panel.
Legend wanting." [Reference: Birch Cat. of Seals in the British
Museum 2 (1892): 412].

This item may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=JhMaAA ... #PPA412,M1

As can be seen above, the arms of Elizabeth de Aldeburgh are displayed
on her seal as being a lion rampant. The Lisle arms, on the other
hand, are well known and they are completely different, they being:
Or, a fess between two chevronels Sable [Reference: Beltz, Memorials
of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841): 42-44].

The Lisle arms are also displayed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y-MNAA ... A6-PA30,M1

Thus, on the basis of heraldic evidence, it is clear that Elizabeth,
wife of William de Aldeburgh, 1st Lord Aldeburgh, was NOT a member of
the Lisle family, as alleged by Brooke, Beltz, Burke, Duckett, and so
many other genealogical sources, and as correctly questioned by Mr.
Gibbs, the editor of Complete Peerage.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[Patricia A. Junkin]

In the 1330's Roger la Zouche is the Sheriff of Warwick. In 1326,
Roger of Lubbesthorpe is indicted for the murder of Roger Belers, yet
a Roger la Zouche is sheriff of Warwick in 1330(C 131/4/26). Since
Alice de Toeni was Countess of Warwick, is it possible that this is a
son of William la Zouche de Mortimer and Alice?
Thank you for observations.
Pat

[Gjest]

On Feb 3, 5:41 am, "Patricia A. Junkin" <[email protected]>
wrote:

In the 1330's Roger la Zouche is the Sheriff of Warwick. In 1326,  
Roger of Lubbesthorpe is indicted for the murder of Roger Belers, yet  
a Roger la Zouche is sheriff of Warwick in 1330(C 131/4/26). Since  
Alice de Toeni was Countess of Warwick, is it possible that this is a  
son of William la Zouche de Mortimer and Alice?
Thank you for observations.
Pat

It is difficult to see why this is in a thread about Lord Aldeburgh.
Am I missing something?

MA-R

[Patricia A. Junkin]

Have no idea why this has been put in that thread. It was a new
message. Nothing to do with Lord Aldeburgh.
Pat
On Feb 2, 2008, at 8:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:

On Feb 3, 5:41 am, "Patricia A. Junkin" <[email protected]
wrote:
In the 1330's Roger la Zouche is the Sheriff of Warwick. In 1326,
Roger of Lubbesthorpe is indicted for the murder of Roger Belers, yet
a Roger la Zouche is sheriff of Warwick in 1330(C 131/4/26). Since
Alice de Toeni was Countess of Warwick, is it possible that this is a
son of William la Zouche de Mortimer and Alice?
Thank you for observations.
Pat

It is difficult to see why this is in a thread about Lord Aldeburgh.
Am I missing something?

MA-R

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