ID: Alice Baratyne m Willmot/Cotsmore/Doyley

[Gjest]

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

MA-R

Recte: Barantine/Barantyne, of course!

[Gjest]

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

A brief overview of the Barantyne family:

1a. Drew Barantyne, goldsmith of London; died 1417 (VCH Oxon, vol 8,
sub Pyrton, p 138 et seq); brother of:

1b. Thomas Barantyne (1368-1399) of Chalgrave, Oxon; married
Elizabeth, daughter and eventual heiress in her issue of Sir Reginald
Malyns of Henton (VCH Oxon, vol 8, sub Chinnor, p 55 et seq). Issue:

2. Reginald Barantyne, died 1441; issue:

3. Drew Barantyne, died 1453; married Joan, daughter of Sir John
Drayton (afterwards married to Sir John Marny); issue:

4. John Barantyne, held various properties in Oxfordshire etc:

"John Barantyne, son of Drue, son of Reynold Barantyne. v. Richard
Quatermayne: Manors of Chalgrove (Chalgrave), Hazeley (Hesele),
Henton, Golder (Goldore), and Rufford. Also messuages there and in
Berwick (Barwyk), Clayore, Gaughsden, and Attyndon, late of Reynold
Barantyne: Oxford. Also manor of Churchill (Chirchehill), and
messuage, &c. in Oxford.: Oxford. The manors of Burghfeld and Aston:
Berks. The manor of Kempston: Bedford. And messuages, &c. in Hambledon
(Hamelden), all late of Drue Barantyne and Jane his wife, daughter of
Sir John Drayton, knight: Bucks" (PROCAT C 1/39/246)

died 1474; will proved PCC 8 April 1477 (PROB 11/6); married
Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Stephen de Popham (VCH Hants vol
3, p 397 et seq); see:

"Elizabeth, late the wife of John Barantyne, esquire. v. John Smith,
gentleman, and others: Riotously carrying her off from the house of
the Friars Preachers, St. Martin's within Ludgate, by boat on the
Thames. (Application made under stat. 8 Hen. VI. c.14.):
London." (PROCAT C 1/52/3)

Issue:

5. John Barantyne, sold Henton, 1482; died 1485; married Mary Stonor;
issue:

6. Sir William Barantyne, died 1550; married and left issue - see
http://www.genealogics.org

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Barantine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chislehampton].

Alice's second husband was *William Cottesmore* of Britwell Baldwin,
who died circa 1519 (will proved PCC 28.7.1519); according to VCH Oxon
vol 8 sub Britwell Salome, his first wife Elizabeth "died after 1509",
which presumably gives us likely termini post and ante quem for the
marriage of Alice and William.

Thomas Doyley's will, very kindly provided to me by Rosie Bevan [also
greatly missed here as a regular contributor], confirms that his wife
was Alice.

VCH Oxon also tells us that William Cottesmore acted as trustee for
John Wilmot in 1517, so the latter was likely still a minor at law
then.

However - there's a fly in the ointment, for certain PROCAT documents
indicate that Alice Doyley formerly Cottemore belonged to a different
family (ie not the Barantynes) - more anon.

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Barantine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley [possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chislehampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Barantyne family of Haseley
Court?

Two additional putative identities for this Alice may be found in
other sources:

(a) sister of John Glydesdale, son of John Felde [sic]

Rose Bevan has identified a number of PROCAT documents which relate to
Thomas Doyley and his wife Alice, formerly the wife of William [not
James] Cottesmore, e.g.:

"John Glyddesdall, gentleman, son of John Felde v. Thomas Doyle,
gentleman, and William, his brother: theft of deeds at Chislington
relating to the marriage settlement of Alice, wife of the said Thomas
and sister of complainant: Oxford, Buckingham"; dated 1518-1529 (PRO C
1/516/42)

Some sort of connection between the Glydesdales and the Wilmots is
suggested by the following:

"John Wylmot of Woolstone (Wolfreston), yeoman, v. John, son and
executor of John Hidden alias Glydesdale: loan the bond for which has
been stolen from complainant: Berkshire"; dated 1551-3. (PRO C
1/1322/46-48)

A connection with the Barnatynes is also suggested:

"Thomas Doyle and Alice, his wife, executrix and late the wife of
William Cottesmore of Brightwell Baldwin (Oxon), esquire v. William
Barantyne, knight, John, son of the said William Cottesmore, and John
Tyse, alias Harper, clerk, feoffee to uses: lands in Yaverland, Wathe
(Week in Godshill?), Nettlecombe, Brading, and Adgestone, late of John
Cottesmore, knight, father of the said William: Isle of Wight, Hants";
dated 1518-1529 (PRO C 1/499/26)

William Cottesmore was dead by 1519, when his will was proved in the
Prerogative Court of Canterbury [Prob 11/19: William Cottusmore of
Brightwell Baldwin]; indeed, it seems he was probably dead at least a
year earlier, when his widow appears to have been remarried to Thomas
Doyley:

"Thomas Doyly and Alice, his wife, executrix and late the wife of
William Cotesmore. v. Richard Bekyngham, of Pudlicott: refusal to
settle lands called `Therne,' and the reversion of others expectant on
the death of Ellen, defendant's wife, upon Robert, his son, and Alice,
daughter of the said William, on their marriage, as by indenture
agreed: Oxford"; dated 1515-1518 (PROCAT C 1/402/47)

VCH Oxon (vol 7, sub Chislehampton) tells us that in 1517 William
Cottesmore was acting as trustee for John Wilmot - possibly the minor
son of John Wilmot and Alice.

William Cottesmore and Alice cannot have been married earlier than
1509, for VCH Oxon also states that his first wife, the heiress
Elizabeth Bedwall, was still living "after 1508" (vol 8, sub Britwell
Salome).

(b) daughter of - Hall of Uxbridge

The Visitation of Oxfordshire also has a pedigree for the Doyleys (p
224). This states that Thomas Doyley was married twice. His first
wife was Alice Coulson, and his second wife was "Alice, daughter of
Hall of Uxbridge, and widow of William Cottesmore".

Thomas Doyley's will of 1545 names his wife as Alice, so she was still
living then (8 June).

According to the Visitation, she was the mother of Thomas Doyley's
younger children.

My thanks to Rosie Bevan for her valuable assistance in this.

It seems this is one of those cases wherein further research throws up
additional questions rather than answers!

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Feb 1, 10:48 am, [email protected] wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Barantine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley [possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chislehampton].


Two additional putative identities for this Alice may be found in
other sources:

(a) sister of John Glydesdale, son of John Felde [sic]


(b) daughter of - Hall of Uxbridge

The Visitation of Oxfordshire also has a pedigree for the Doyleys (p
224).  This states that Thomas Doyley was married twice.  His first
wife was Alice Coulson, and his second wife was "Alice, daughter of
Hall of Uxbridge, and widow of William Cottesmore".

We can add a little more to this last item:

The Visitation of Oxfordshire, p 195 contains a pedigree for
Cottesmore.

This states that Sir William Cottesmore of Brightwell Baldwin married
firstly Florence Harcourt, daughter of Sir Simon Harcourt [this is
glossed as an error, for the same wife is assigned to his son John
Cottesmore], and secondly Alice, daughter of - Hall of Oxonbridge,
Wilts, who afterwards married Thomas Doyley.

I cannot identify such a place in Wiltshire.

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

According to the various entries in the Visitation of Oxfordshire,
Alice Wilmot/Cottesmore/Doyley had the following issue:

1. John Wilmot, of Stadhampton, Oxon
2. Edward Wilmot, of Witney, Oxon and Newent, Gloucs
3,4,5,6,7 - daughters shown on their parents' brass

8. Thomas Cottesmore
9. George Cottesmore

10. Robert Doyley of Merton, Oxon, died 1577


According to a brass in Standhampton church to "John Wylmot the
younger and Alys his wife", her first husband died 21 August 1508.
This brass contained their images, and that of five daughters.

John Wilmot of Stadhampton, father of this John Wilmot the younger, is
also shown as having a wife named Alice. Perhaps the pedigree is
slightly muddled, and the elder John Wilmot married Alice Barantyne,
and the younger Alice Hall?

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Feb 1, 3:03 pm, [email protected] wrote:

John Wilmot of Stadhampton, father of this John Wilmot the younger, is
also shown as having a wife named Alice.  Perhaps the pedigree is
slightly muddled, and the elder John Wilmot married Alice Barantyne,
and the younger Alice Hall?

Hm, VCH Oxon vol 7 sub Stadhampton records a second brass in the
church there to John Wilmot [the elder], died 1498, and his wife
*Ann*...

However, this PROCAT document of 1505-1515 seems interesting:

"John Wylmot and Alice, his wife, and Henry Smyth and Johanne, his
wife v. Johanne, late the wife of Thomas Adam, gentleman, and daughter
of John Raynold and Margery, his wife: lands called `Pedlyngford' in
Detling conveyed by Thomas Stukilles to his son-in-law, Thomas
Lorkyng, grandfather of the complainants, Alice and Johane:
Sussex" (PRO C 1/370/76)

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Feb 1, 3:23 pm, [email protected] wrote:

This PROCAT document of 1505-1515 seems interesting:

"John Wylmot and Alice, his wife, and Henry Smyth and Johanne, his
wife v. Johanne, late the wife of Thomas Adam, gentleman, and daughter
of John Raynold and Margery, his wife: lands called `Pedlyngford' in
Detling conveyed by Thomas Stukilles to his son-in-law, Thomas
Lorkyng, grandfather of the complainants, Alice and Johane:
Sussex" (PRO C 1/370/76)

But not our John, and thus not relevant to this query, for this
plaintiff was still living in 1518:

"John Wilmot and Alice, his wife, and Johane Smyth, widow, daughters
and heirs of John Lorkyn of Lewes, yeoman. v. Johane, late the wife of
Thomas Adams, gentleman: lands and tenements called `Pedlyngford and
Detlyng,' settled by Thomas Stukilles on the marriage of his daughter
Margery to Lawrence Lorkyn, father of the said John: Sussex" (PRO C
1/595/25)

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Feb 1, 3:03 pm, [email protected] wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

According to the various entries in the Visitation of Oxfordshire,
Alice Wilmot/Cottesmore/Doyley had the following issue:

1. John Wilmot, of Stadhampton, Oxon
2. Edward Wilmot, of Witney, Oxon and Newent, Gloucs
3,4,5,6,7 - daughters shown on their parents' brass

8. Thomas Cottesmore
9. George Cottesmore

10. Robert Doyley of Merton, Oxon, died 1577

According to a brass in Standhampton church to "John Wylmot the
younger and Alys his wife", her first husband died 21 August 1508.
This brass contained their images, and that of five daughters.

John Wilmot of Stadhampton, father of this John Wilmot the younger...

Some relevant PCC wills to confirm dates:

John Wilmot of Chislehampton, 1498 (25 Horne)
John Wilmot of 'Stodham' [Stadhampton], 1508 (5 Bennett)
Edward Wilmot, Esq, of Witney and Newent, 1558 (9 Welles)

MA-R

[Gjest]

Here's a bit more info on the Barantynes....which may not be "new
news" to you and unfortunately doesn't help to identify the Alice
Barantyne who mar. John Wilmot.

Drew Barantyne (d. 1453) had, in addition to his son John, at least 4
daughters who are mentioned in his will (proved 24 Sept 1453). One of
them, Katherine, mar. (1) William Fettiplace and (2) Sir Robert
Danvers, and thus is mentioned in comprehensive genealogies of those
families. A Fettiplace pedigree in MGH, 5th ser., 2:131 quotes a
segment of the will of Drew Barantyne which mentions "my 4 daughters,
Katherine, wife of William Fettiplace, Agnes, wife of Walter Burrow,
Joan, wife of Robert Kentwode, and Margaret, wife of John Coytsmore".

F. N. Macnamara's "Memorials of the Danvers Family" has some mention
of the Barentynes [sic] and provides some sources, including one that
might be useful if it could be found: T. W. Weare, Some Remarks upon
the Church of Great Haseley. This last item is listed in Google Books
as "no preview available" - aarrghh!!

The FHL catalog also lists an item by M. T. Pearman, titled "The
descent of the manors of Pirton and Haseley", published by the Oxford
Archaeological Society, which might give some clues.

FWIW, two of Drew Barantyne's daughters, Katherine and Joan, are
ancestors of Princes William and Harry - Katherine by both of her two
husbands. Leo's Genealogics database also has a descent to Prince
Charles from Drew's great-grandson Sir William (based on Paget's work,
and via the family of Bell of Beaupré), but this particular connection
was noted to be wrong by Gary Boyd Roberts back in 1980.

On Jan 30, 8:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

A brief overview of the Barantyne family:

1a. Drew Barantyne, goldsmith of London; died 1417 (VCH Oxon, vol 8,
sub Pyrton, p 138 et seq); brother of:

1b. Thomas Barantyne (1368-1399) of Chalgrave, Oxon; married
Elizabeth, daughter and eventual heiress in her issue of Sir Reginald
Malyns of Henton (VCH Oxon, vol 8, sub Chinnor, p 55 et seq). Issue:

2. Reginald Barantyne, died 1441; issue:

3. Drew Barantyne, died 1453; married Joan, daughter of Sir John
Drayton (afterwards married to Sir John Marny); issue:

4. John Barantyne, held various properties in Oxfordshire etc:

"John Barantyne, son of Drue, son of Reynold Barantyne. v. Richard
Quatermayne: Manors of Chalgrove (Chalgrave), Hazeley (Hesele),
Henton, Golder (Goldore), and Rufford. Also messuages there and in
Berwick (Barwyk), Clayore, Gaughsden, and Attyndon, late of Reynold
Barantyne: Oxford. Also manor of Churchill (Chirchehill), and
messuage, &c. in Oxford.: Oxford. The manors of Burghfeld and Aston:
Berks. The manor of Kempston: Bedford. And messuages, &c. in Hambledon
(Hamelden), all late of Drue Barantyne and Jane his wife, daughter of
Sir John Drayton, knight: Bucks" (PROCAT C 1/39/246)

died 1474; will proved PCC 8 April 1477 (PROB 11/6); married
Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Stephen de Popham (VCH Hants vol
3, p 397 et seq); see:

"Elizabeth, late the wife of John Barantyne, esquire. v. John Smith,
gentleman, and others: Riotously carrying her off from the house of
the Friars Preachers, St. Martin's within Ludgate, by boat on the
Thames. (Application made under stat. 8 Hen. VI. c.14.):
London." (PROCAT C 1/52/3)

Issue:

5. John Barantyne, sold Henton, 1482; died 1485; married Mary Stonor;
issue:

6. Sir William Barantyne, died 1550; married and left issue - seewww.genealogics.org

MA-R

[wjhonson]

On Feb 1, 4:58 pm, [email protected] wrote:

Drew Barantyne (d. 1453) had, in addition to his son John, at least 4
daughters who are mentioned in his will (proved 24 Sept 1453).  One of
them, Katherine, mar. (1) William Fettiplace and (2) Sir Robert
Danvers, and thus is mentioned in comprehensive genealogies of those
families.  A Fettiplace pedigree in MGH, 5th ser., 2:131 quotes a
segment of the will of Drew Barantyne which mentions "my 4 daughters,
Katherine, wife of William Fettiplace,

Thanks for this John, very helpful.
Tudorplace.com.ar lists this Katherine as BARRINGTON so I had not
quite placed her before.

William Fettiplace is an E4 descending in 4 steps from King Edward III
of England
but perhaps more interestingly for gateway seekers he is also a P2,
his own grandfather being King John I of Portugal.

William Fettiplace and his wife Catherine are Cecil 8's in the
following way:
their daugher Anne Fettiplace married Hugh Unton
Hugh and Anne's son Thomas Unton married Elizabeth Young
Thomas and Elizabeth's son Alexander Unton married Cicely Bulstrode
Alexander and Cicely's daughter Elizabeth Unton married Sir John Croke
John and Elizabeth's daughter Prudence married Sir Robert Wingfield

Sir Robert Wingfield was the son of Elizabeth Cecil, the daughter of
Richard Cecil
----------------------
However, I do not yet have this far-above Katherine Barantyne in my
ancestor list for Prince William. Can you give a hint as to how the
descent from goes to him goes for a few generations?
Thanks

Will Johnson

[Gjest]

On Feb 2, 11:58 am, [email protected] wrote:

Here's a bit more info on the Barantynes....which may not be "new
news" to you and unfortunately doesn't help to identify the Alice
Barantyne who mar. John Wilmot.

Drew Barantyne (d. 1453) had, in addition to his son John, at least 4
daughters who are mentioned in his will (proved 24 Sept 1453).  One of
them, Katherine, mar. (1) William Fettiplace and (2) Sir Robert
Danvers, and thus is mentioned in comprehensive genealogies of those
families.  A Fettiplace pedigree in MGH, 5th ser., 2:131 quotes a
segment of the will of Drew Barantyne which mentions "my 4 daughters,
Katherine, wife of William Fettiplace, Agnes, wife of Walter Burrow,
Joan, wife of Robert Kentwode, and Margaret, wife of John Coytsmore".

F. N. Macnamara's "Memorials of the Danvers Family" has some mention
of the Barentynes [sic] and provides some sources, including one that
might be useful if it could be found:  T. W. Weare, Some Remarks upon
the Church of Great Haseley.  This last item is listed in Google Books
as "no preview available" - aarrghh!!

The FHL catalog also lists an item by M. T. Pearman, titled "The
descent of the manors of Pirton and Haseley", published by the Oxford
Archaeological Society, which might give some clues.

FWIW, two of Drew Barantyne's daughters, Katherine and Joan, are
ancestors of Princes William and Harry - Katherine by both of her two
husbands.  

Many thanks, John - plenty on work on from that!

Cheers, Michael

[Patricia A. Junkin]

I incorrectly wrote that Oliver la Zouche who married an Isabel was
the son or grandson of the old Oliver la Zouche. He was the grandson
or great grandson and presumably the heir of John la Zouche, son of
the old Oliver who inherited his property in 1316.
Will Johnson has pointed to my error and wanted to apologize to all
for the incorrect statement.
Pat

[Gjest]

If you're basing an Edward III descent for William Fettiplace on the
supposed Portuguese connection, you may want to curb your enthusiasm
until you've checked the archives here. There were two Portuguese
ladies named Beatrice who married into English families in the
medieval period. The one who married Talbot and Fettiplace was not
the one who was the bastard daughter of King John I of Portugal. Look
for Nat Taylor's posts on this subject, especially regarding the
possible ancestry of the Talbot/Fettiplace Beatrice.

One of the Barantyne descents to Prince William goes via the Unton
path you show below. Cecily Croke, another daughter of Sir John Croke
and Elizabeth Unton, married Edward Bulstrode - you can trace it
further in Leo's database. There are other descents, via Catherine's
Danvers marriage and via her sister Joan.

On Feb 1, 5:16 pm, wjhonson <[email protected]> wrote:

On Feb 1, 4:58 pm, [email protected] wrote:

Drew Barantyne (d. 1453) had, in addition to his son John, at least 4
daughters who are mentioned in his will (proved 24 Sept 1453). One of
them, Katherine, mar. (1) William Fettiplace and (2) Sir Robert
Danvers, and thus is mentioned in comprehensive genealogies of those
families. A Fettiplace pedigree in MGH, 5th ser., 2:131 quotes a
segment of the will of Drew Barantyne which mentions "my 4 daughters,
Katherine, wife of William Fettiplace,

Thanks for this John, very helpful.
Tudorplace.com.ar lists this Katherine as BARRINGTON so I had not
quite placed her before.

William Fettiplace is an E4 descending in 4 steps from King Edward III
of England
but perhaps more interestingly for gateway seekers he is also a P2,
his own grandfather being King John I of Portugal.

William Fettiplace and his wife Catherine are Cecil 8's in the
following way:
their daugher Anne Fettiplace married Hugh Unton
Hugh and Anne's son Thomas Unton married Elizabeth Young
Thomas and Elizabeth's son Alexander Unton married Cicely Bulstrode
Alexander and Cicely's daughter Elizabeth Unton married Sir John Croke
John and Elizabeth's daughter Prudence married Sir Robert Wingfield

Sir Robert Wingfield was the son of Elizabeth Cecil, the daughter of
Richard Cecil
----------------------
However, I do not yet have this far-above Katherine Barantyne in my
ancestor list for Prince William. Can you give a hint as to how the
descent from goes to him goes for a few generations?
Thanks

Will Johnson

[wjhonson]

On Feb 1, 7:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:

If you're basing an Edward III descent for William Fettiplace on the
supposed Portuguese connection, you may want to curb your enthusiasm
until you've checked the archives here.  There were two Portuguese
ladies named Beatrice who married into English families in the
medieval period.  

Oh well, easy come easy go.
It was however a nice line while it lasted.
Now the poor children of Sir John Croke (by Elizabeth Unton) have to
be content with being the far most distant E16, 16 generations removed
from
Henry II of England
by no one other than.... Ida de Toeni!

Amazing how these threads wrap back on themselves.

[tom]

On Jan 31, 4:22 am, [email protected] wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

A brief overview of the Barantyne family:

1a. Drew Barantyne, goldsmith of London; died 1417 (VCH Oxon, vol 8,
sub Pyrton, p 138 et seq); brother of:

1b. Thomas Barantyne (1368-1399) of Chalgrave, Oxon; married
Elizabeth, daughter and eventual heiress in her issue of Sir Reginald
Malyns of Henton (VCH Oxon, vol 8, sub Chinnor, p 55 et seq).  Issue:

2. Reginald Barantyne, died 1441; issue:

3. Drew Barantyne, died 1453; married Joan, daughter of Sir John
Drayton (afterwards married to Sir John Marny); issue:

4. John Barantyne, held various properties in Oxfordshire etc:

"John Barantyne, son of Drue, son of Reynold Barantyne. v. Richard
Quatermayne: Manors of Chalgrove (Chalgrave), Hazeley (Hesele),
Henton, Golder (Goldore), and Rufford. Also messuages there and in
Berwick (Barwyk), Clayore, Gaughsden, and Attyndon, late of Reynold
Barantyne: Oxford. Also manor of Churchill (Chirchehill), and
messuage, &c. in Oxford.: Oxford. The manors of Burghfeld and Aston:
Berks. The manor of Kempston: Bedford. And messuages, &c. in Hambledon
(Hamelden), all late of Drue Barantyne and Jane his wife, daughter of
Sir John Drayton, knight: Bucks" (PROCAT C 1/39/246)

died 1474; will proved PCC 8 April 1477 (PROB 11/6); married
Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Stephen de Popham (VCH Hants vol
3, p 397 et seq); see:

"Elizabeth, late the wife of John Barantyne, esquire. v. John Smith,
gentleman, and others: Riotously carrying her off from the house of
the Friars Preachers, St. Martin's within Ludgate, by boat on the
Thames. (Application made under stat. 8 Hen. VI. c.14.):
London." (PROCAT C 1/52/3)

Issue:

5. John Barantyne, sold Henton, 1482; died 1485; married Mary Stonor;
issue:

6. Sir William Barantyne, died 1550; married and left issue - seewww.genealogics.org

MA-R

Hi Folks,
According to the will ofJohn Barantyne, he and his wife Elizabeth
left three sons and a daughter.
John, his son and heir, (called John the elder), was not yet of age
when his father died in 1474. The other two sons were Austyn Barantyne
and John (the younger) Barantyne were also not of age. The daughter
Anne, was also a minor.

Regards
Tom Dunn, Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

[Gjest]

On Feb 3, 10:02 pm, tom <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jan 31, 4:22 am, [email protected] wrote:





On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

A brief overview of the Barantyne family:

1a. Drew Barantyne, goldsmith of London; died 1417 (VCH Oxon, vol 8,
sub Pyrton, p 138 et seq); brother of:

1b. Thomas Barantyne (1368-1399) of Chalgrave, Oxon; married
Elizabeth, daughter and eventual heiress in her issue of Sir Reginald
Malyns of Henton (VCH Oxon, vol 8, sub Chinnor, p 55 et seq).  Issue:

2. Reginald Barantyne, died 1441; issue:

3. Drew Barantyne, died 1453; married Joan, daughter of Sir John
Drayton (afterwards married to Sir John Marny); issue:

4. John Barantyne, held various properties in Oxfordshire etc:

"John Barantyne, son of Drue, son of Reynold Barantyne. v. Richard
Quatermayne: Manors of Chalgrove (Chalgrave), Hazeley (Hesele),
Henton, Golder (Goldore), and Rufford. Also messuages there and in
Berwick (Barwyk), Clayore, Gaughsden, and Attyndon, late of Reynold
Barantyne: Oxford. Also manor of Churchill (Chirchehill), and
messuage, &c. in Oxford.: Oxford. The manors of Burghfeld and Aston:
Berks. The manor of Kempston: Bedford. And messuages, &c. in Hambledon
(Hamelden), all late of Drue Barantyne and Jane his wife, daughter of
Sir John Drayton, knight: Bucks" (PROCAT C 1/39/246)

died 1474; will proved PCC 8 April 1477 (PROB 11/6); married
Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Stephen de Popham (VCH Hants vol
3, p 397 et seq); see:

"Elizabeth, late the wife of John Barantyne, esquire. v. John Smith,
gentleman, and others: Riotously carrying her off from the house of
the Friars Preachers, St. Martin's within Ludgate, by boat on the
Thames. (Application made under stat. 8 Hen. VI. c.14.):
London." (PROCAT C 1/52/3)

Issue:

5. John Barantyne, sold Henton, 1482; died 1485; married Mary Stonor;
issue:

6. Sir William Barantyne, died 1550; married and left issue - seewww.genealogics.org

MA-R

Hi Folks,
   According to the will ofJohn Barantyne, he and his wife Elizabeth
left three sons and a daughter.
John, his son and heir, (called John the elder), was not yet of age
when his father died in 1474. The other two sons were Austyn Barantyne
and John (the younger) Barantyne were also not of age. The daughter
Anne, was also a minor.

Regards
Tom Dunn, Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

Good work Tom - many thanks. It seems we can pretty much rule out
that generation.

Best wishes, Michael

[tom]

On Feb 3, 11:56 am, [email protected] wrote:

On Feb 3, 10:02 pm, tom <[email protected]> wrote:





On Jan 31, 4:22 am, [email protected] wrote:

On Jan 31, 12:17 pm, [email protected] wrote:

According to the Visitation of Oxford, 1566, p 301, John Willmot
married "Alice Baratine" of Haseley Court.

She is said to have married afterwards (ii) James Cotsmore and (iii)
Thomas Doyley[ possibly the one of the name who died in 1545 - see VCH
Oxon vol 7 sub Chiselhampton].

Does anyone know how Alice fits into the Baratyne family of Haseley
Court?

A brief overview of the Barantyne family:

1a. Drew Barantyne, goldsmith of London; died 1417 (VCH Oxon, vol 8,
sub Pyrton, p 138 et seq); brother of:

1b. Thomas Barantyne (1368-1399) of Chalgrave, Oxon; married
Elizabeth, daughter and eventual heiress in her issue of Sir Reginald
Malyns of Henton (VCH Oxon, vol 8, sub Chinnor, p 55 et seq).  Issue:

2. Reginald Barantyne, died 1441; issue:

3. Drew Barantyne, died 1453; married Joan, daughter of Sir John
Drayton (afterwards married to Sir John Marny); issue:

4. John Barantyne, held various properties in Oxfordshire etc:

"John Barantyne, son of Drue, son of Reynold Barantyne. v. Richard
Quatermayne: Manors of Chalgrove (Chalgrave), Hazeley (Hesele),
Henton, Golder (Goldore), and Rufford. Also messuages there and in
Berwick (Barwyk), Clayore, Gaughsden, and Attyndon, late of Reynold
Barantyne: Oxford. Also manor of Churchill (Chirchehill), and
messuage, &c. in Oxford.: Oxford. The manors of Burghfeld and Aston:
Berks. The manor of Kempston: Bedford. And messuages, &c. in Hambledon
(Hamelden), all late of Drue Barantyne and Jane his wife, daughter of
Sir John Drayton, knight: Bucks" (PROCAT C 1/39/246)

died 1474; will proved PCC 8 April 1477 (PROB 11/6); married
Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Stephen de Popham (VCH Hants vol
3, p 397 et seq); see:

"Elizabeth, late the wife of John Barantyne, esquire. v. John Smith,
gentleman, and others: Riotously carrying her off from the house of
the Friars Preachers, St. Martin's within Ludgate, by boat on the
Thames. (Application made under stat. 8 Hen. VI. c.14.):
London." (PROCAT C 1/52/3)

Issue:

5. John Barantyne, sold Henton, 1482; died 1485; married Mary Stonor;
issue:

6. Sir William Barantyne, died 1550; married and left issue - seewww.genealogics.org

MA-R

Hi Folks,
   According to the will ofJohn Barantyne, he and his wife Elizabeth
left three sons and a daughter.
John, his son and heir, (called John the elder), was not yet of age
when his father died in 1474. The other two sons were Austyn Barantyne
and John (the younger) Barantyne were also not of age. The daughter
Anne, was also a minor.

Regards
Tom Dunn, Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

Good work Tom - many thanks.  It seems we can pretty much rule out
that generation.

Best wishes, Michael- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Michael,
My point was since John, the son and heir of John Barantyne
(-1474), died as a young man leaving an infant son William, than
Austyn and John (the 2nd. son of that name) remain as the likely
candidates.
Regards
Tom

[Gjest]

On Feb 4, 12:06 am, tom <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Michael,
   My point was since John, the son and heir of John Barantyne
(-1474), died as a young man leaving an infant son William, than
Austyn and John (the 2nd. son of that name) remain as the  likely
candidates.

From what I can work out of the chronology thus far, the first John
died in 1474, naming three minor sons and one daughter (Ann) in his
will. It is therefore unlikely that he left a daughter Alice -
although he may have done (she might have been otherwise provided for,
or have been born posthumously). It is also unlikely - though
possible - that such a daughter, born no later than 1475, would have
been producing children after 1518.

The second John was a minor in 1474 - ie born after 1452 - and died in
1485. He left a minor son (William) but since we don't know when he
was born, we can't rule out the possibility of his having also left a
daughter, born anywhere between circa 1470 and 1486.

As you note, John the younger and Austin are also candidates.

Of course, this is assuming that Alice was a Barantyne at all - there
is conflicting evidence that she was a Hall of Oxonbridge/Oxbridge,
Wiltshire.

MA-R

[Gjest]

On Feb 4, 7:44 am, [email protected] wrote:

On Feb 4, 12:06 am, tom <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Michael,
   My point was since John, the son and heir of John Barantyne
(-1474), died as a young man leaving an infant son William, than
Austyn and John (the 2nd. son of that name) remain as the  likely
candidates.

From what I can work out of the chronology thus far, the first John
died in 1474, naming three minor sons and one daughter (Ann) in his
will.  It is therefore unlikely that he left a daughter Alice -
although he may have done (she might have been otherwise provided for,
or have been born posthumously).  It is also unlikely - though
possible - that such a daughter, born no later than 1475, would have
been producing children after 1518.

The second John was a minor in 1474 - ie born after 1452 - and died in
1485.  He left a minor son (William) but since we don't know when he
was born, we can't rule out the possibility of his having also left a
daughter, born anywhere between circa 1470 and 1486.

A kind correspondent has pointed out that according to his father's
IPM, John Barantyne was aged "14 and more" in October 1474. Therefore
an approximate birthdate of 1460 may be assigned to him, making him
about 25 year of age at the time of his own death. He could have
fathered a daughter between, say, 1476 and 1486.

MA-R