Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
Genealogy and backward compatability
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
laberday wrote:
FTM 16 opens or saves in all older FTM FTW formats
and several flavours of gedcoms
best to use the default "Temple Ready"
which is IGI and familysearch.org compatable
html is pretty standard too
Hugh W
--
Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks
old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
FTM 16 opens or saves in all older FTM FTW formats
and several flavours of gedcoms
best to use the default "Temple Ready"
which is IGI and familysearch.org compatable
html is pretty standard too
Hugh W
--
Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks
old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
Charlie Hoffpauir
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:05:45 -0500, laberday
<[email protected]> wrote:
It is VERY unlikely that your descendent will have access to any
hardware that will allow him to read that CD, even assuming that a
50-year old CD is still readable.
If you want your information to be available, printing to acid-free
paper is still the best approach. Many genealogy libraries will accept
a printed "book" and place it on their shelves. Clayton Library
(Houston) will accept the papers, bind them in a hard cover, catalogue
them, and place the book on their shelves. A donation of your data in
the form of a printed book to Clayton (and other libraries) will
insure that it is available for a very long time.
With the inconsistancies between different version of GEDCOMs as
produced by different genealogy programs, it's likely that at least
some information will be lost in the transfer of data from a "program
specific" file to GEDCOM then to program again. However, there's
still the problem of media. How do you insure that the media you
choose to put the GEDCOM on, is still readable 50 years from now? My
original genealogy data was on 5 1/4 inch floppy discs readable only
by my Apple IIe computer. I'm sure someone can still read that data,
but I can't. If I hadn't been around to convert that from the Apple to
a PC by emailing a file to myself while I still had a working IIe,
that information would have been lost. Fortunately, PAF had both a PC
and an Apple version back then.
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
<[email protected]> wrote:
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
It is VERY unlikely that your descendent will have access to any
hardware that will allow him to read that CD, even assuming that a
50-year old CD is still readable.
If you want your information to be available, printing to acid-free
paper is still the best approach. Many genealogy libraries will accept
a printed "book" and place it on their shelves. Clayton Library
(Houston) will accept the papers, bind them in a hard cover, catalogue
them, and place the book on their shelves. A donation of your data in
the form of a printed book to Clayton (and other libraries) will
insure that it is available for a very long time.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
With the inconsistancies between different version of GEDCOMs as
produced by different genealogy programs, it's likely that at least
some information will be lost in the transfer of data from a "program
specific" file to GEDCOM then to program again. However, there's
still the problem of media. How do you insure that the media you
choose to put the GEDCOM on, is still readable 50 years from now? My
original genealogy data was on 5 1/4 inch floppy discs readable only
by my Apple IIe computer. I'm sure someone can still read that data,
but I can't. If I hadn't been around to convert that from the Apple to
a PC by emailing a file to myself while I still had a working IIe,
that information would have been lost. Fortunately, PAF had both a PC
and an Apple version back then.
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
-
Lesley Robertson
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
"laberday" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
enormously stable - I have a couple that failed after less than a year lying
in my office, and others that have failed after a couple of years. Secondly,
they're unlikely to have a unit that can read the format - for example I
imagine that your pc can read the 3.5 inch floppies, but can it read the old
5.25 inch, or even the old flexible discs (look like old floppies, but 21 cm
square), let alone cassette tapes or punched cards or tapes?
The only way to keep the data available over as long as 50 years is either
acid-freee hardcopy, or archival quality film.
Lesley Robertson
news:[email protected]...
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
The CD is highly unlikely to be readable. Firstly, because they're not
enormously stable - I have a couple that failed after less than a year lying
in my office, and others that have failed after a couple of years. Secondly,
they're unlikely to have a unit that can read the format - for example I
imagine that your pc can read the 3.5 inch floppies, but can it read the old
5.25 inch, or even the old flexible discs (look like old floppies, but 21 cm
square), let alone cassette tapes or punched cards or tapes?
The only way to keep the data available over as long as 50 years is either
acid-freee hardcopy, or archival quality film.
Lesley Robertson
-
Kerry Raymond
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
In 50 years, your descendents will probably think the CD is a Christmas tree
decoration or a small frisbee.
And if you print it all out, paper may disintegrate and ink may bleed.
And there is no guarantee that our descendants will be able to read as we
do. We have abandoned arithmetic in favour of calculators, maybe
reading/writing will go the same way (computers will talk to us verbally or
we will all jack straight into the matrix and our brains be directly
supplied with thoughts).
And perhaps even the notions of family relationships may have become
irrelevant in a world of babies carried to full term in a testtube from DNA
selected from computer-selected clones (like the movie GATTACA). Maybe
people in 50 years will be embarrassed to find out that their ancestors
engaged in physical contact to make babies and try to cover it up (like the
Isaac Asimov book The Naked Sun) just as some of our parents and
grandparents covered up their convict ancestry.
Hopefully we are now feeling motivated to get stuck into our family history
Kerry
-
Graham Hadfield
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
Please let's not be so pessimistic. The same arguments that have been
put forward for CDs etc can equally be applied to the old disk packs
that we used on IBM 360s when I started working in IT 30 odd years
ago.
The same "problems" of media having a relatively short life is faced
by every company/organisation processing data on computers. They will
do what they've been doing for years - move the data on to newer media
and process it with newer software as the years go by - and there's no
reason why the rest of us can't do the same.
One thing about software is that it doesn't wear out. Yes, I know that
there are sometimes problems running old programs on newer hardware
and OS's but they are not insurmountable.
If you can't do it for yourself, one way of ensuring that your data
will be maintained in years to come is to donate copies to
organisations like the Society of Genealogists and/or your local
family history society where they will make sure it's readable even
after you are gone.
Regards,
Graham
JiGraH Resources http://www.jigrah.co.uk/ - The Printer You Need For Your Long Family Trees.
Computer services & mail order products for Family Historians. We now scan books to CD - see the Mail Order Pages.
We maintain the web sites of the Derbyshire Family History Society at http://www.dfhs.org.uk/ and Sir Thomas Tyldesley's Regiment of the English Civil War Society at http://www.thomas-tyldesleys.co.uk.
We are supporters of Glossop Heritage Centre - http://www.glossopheritage.co.uk/
put forward for CDs etc can equally be applied to the old disk packs
that we used on IBM 360s when I started working in IT 30 odd years
ago.
The same "problems" of media having a relatively short life is faced
by every company/organisation processing data on computers. They will
do what they've been doing for years - move the data on to newer media
and process it with newer software as the years go by - and there's no
reason why the rest of us can't do the same.
One thing about software is that it doesn't wear out. Yes, I know that
there are sometimes problems running old programs on newer hardware
and OS's but they are not insurmountable.
If you can't do it for yourself, one way of ensuring that your data
will be maintained in years to come is to donate copies to
organisations like the Society of Genealogists and/or your local
family history society where they will make sure it's readable even
after you are gone.
Regards,
Graham
JiGraH Resources http://www.jigrah.co.uk/ - The Printer You Need For Your Long Family Trees.
Computer services & mail order products for Family Historians. We now scan books to CD - see the Mail Order Pages.
We maintain the web sites of the Derbyshire Family History Society at http://www.dfhs.org.uk/ and Sir Thomas Tyldesley's Regiment of the English Civil War Society at http://www.thomas-tyldesleys.co.uk.
We are supporters of Glossop Heritage Centre - http://www.glossopheritage.co.uk/
-
singhals
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
laberday wrote:
Make CERTAIN there ARE paper copies which will be instantly
recognizable as a document and put a title on it that
suggests it might be interesting. Shove in a few decent
pictures, and any 12-yr-old assigned to sort trash from
non-trash will at least lay it aside to ask Dad about.
Cheryl
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
Make CERTAIN there ARE paper copies which will be instantly
recognizable as a document and put a title on it that
suggests it might be interesting. Shove in a few decent
pictures, and any 12-yr-old assigned to sort trash from
non-trash will at least lay it aside to ask Dad about.
Cheryl
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
singhals wrote:
deposit copies at libraries
I reckon as long as they are making money
myfamily inc have a vested interest in keeping my stuff
Hugh W
--
Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks
old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
laberday wrote:
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
Make CERTAIN there ARE paper copies which will be instantly recognizable
as a document and put a title on it that suggests it might be
interesting. Shove in a few decent pictures, and any 12-yr-old assigned
to sort trash from non-trash will at least lay it aside to ask Dad about.
deposit copies at libraries
I reckon as long as they are making money
myfamily inc have a vested interest in keeping my stuff
Hugh W
--
Beta blogger
http://nanowrimo3.blogspot.com/ visiting my past
http://hughw36-2.blogspot.com/ re-entry
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/" photographs and walks
old blogger
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
Gjest
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
Frank here and good points.
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great. One thing that can be done is
to scan those copies and use an OCR (optical character reader, normally
found on most scanner software packages).
Additionally, getting past the media problem, you have to think of
formats. There are formats in use today that should be readable for a
long time (i.e. .csv, the basis for most spreadsheet programs).
Since this is a genealogy computing forum, perhaps you all should work
towards an open source standard that all the software packages can
build off of. Something similiar to a .csv. The standard is only the
basis for MS Excel, but all versions of Excel and 99% of other
spreadsheet programs going back 15 years can read it. True, it doesn't
have all the beeps and whistles of Excel, but it works and I can (and
do) save a back-up of all my spreadsheets in .csv for future use.
Thanks for everyones help and interest in getting my data back.
Frank Reid
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great. One thing that can be done is
to scan those copies and use an OCR (optical character reader, normally
found on most scanner software packages).
Additionally, getting past the media problem, you have to think of
formats. There are formats in use today that should be readable for a
long time (i.e. .csv, the basis for most spreadsheet programs).
Since this is a genealogy computing forum, perhaps you all should work
towards an open source standard that all the software packages can
build off of. Something similiar to a .csv. The standard is only the
basis for MS Excel, but all versions of Excel and 99% of other
spreadsheet programs going back 15 years can read it. True, it doesn't
have all the beeps and whistles of Excel, but it works and I can (and
do) save a back-up of all my spreadsheets in .csv for future use.
Thanks for everyones help and interest in getting my data back.
Frank Reid
-
Sherry
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
[email protected] wrote in news:1164217850.536824.69290
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
<raising hand and waving> I do!!! I even have some single-sided single-
density floppies and the computer (Atari 800XL) to run them on!!!
Sherry
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Frank here and good points.
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great.
<raising hand and waving> I do!!! I even have some single-sided single-
density floppies and the computer (Atari 800XL) to run them on!!!
Sherry
-
Paul Blair
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
Sherry wrote:
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only
keep so much
Paul
[email protected] wrote in news:1164217850.536824.69290
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Frank here and good points.
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great.
raising hand and waving> I do!!! I even have some single-sided single-
density floppies and the computer (Atari 800XL) to run them on!!!
Sherry
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only
keep so much
Paul
-
Kerry Raymond
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only keep
so much
Hey, I gotta Commodore VT that does 0-100km/h in 9.1 seconds, and I use it
every weekend for family history
Kerry
-
Everett M. Greene
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
Paul Blair <[email protected]> writes:
I still have my 8" drives and could probably have them
running in a few minutes after dragging them out of
the attic (if I can remember how to operate the
computer to which they'd be attached). Today, I
hardly ever use floppies -- the internal drive on my
main computer has been dead for years.
Sherry wrote:
[email protected] wrote
Frank here and good points.
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great.
raising hand and waving> I do!!! I even have some single-sided single-
density floppies and the computer (Atari 800XL) to run them on!!!
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only
keep so much
I still have my 8" drives and could probably have them
running in a few minutes after dragging them out of
the attic (if I can remember how to operate the
computer to which they'd be attached). Today, I
hardly ever use floppies -- the internal drive on my
main computer has been dead for years.
-
Bret Ellis
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
LOL
"Kerry Raymond" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Kerry Raymond" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only keep
so much
Hey, I gotta Commodore VT that does 0-100km/h in 9.1 seconds, and I use it
every weekend for family history
Kerry
-
Dora Smith
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
I don't know how to ensure that. I'd just make your reports and save them.
In addition to the data. I also sent my data to the Mormons, who will
make it available in whatever format.
--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
"laberday" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
In addition to the data. I also sent my data to the Mormons, who will
make it available in whatever format.
--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
[email protected]
"laberday" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
-
TomAlciere
Re: Genealogy and backward compatability
laberday wrote:
In building my GedcomIndex.com stuff, I have come across old GEDCOM
files that have longer tags, like 0 HEADER instead of 0 HEAD and 0
TRAILER instead of 0 TRLR. Newer software needs to be able to read
these.
Gedcom 5.5 is a perfectly good standard for compatibility. If you
export something, export it in Gedcom 5.5 even if you also export it
and publish it in another format.
I'm told the CD's I burn in my machine won't last as long as CD's
manufactured professionally. That's another concern. Maybe printing the
GEDCOM file on acid-free paper and packaging it in a box with labels on
it is the best solution. Then the pages can be fed into a scanner
without unstapling and ripping along the staple holes.
Tom Alciere
smart person
Nashua, New Hampshire
Frand Ried's thread got me thining about backward compatability. Many
graphic and word processing software packages only go back one or two
versions. It is often a marketing tool to force people to keep their
software current.
However, in genealogy it is VITAL that the data be accessible forever.
Frank's situation is the perfect example. What if 50 years from now, a
descendent of mine comes accross an old CD? There's may not be
archived paper for the many hours work I'm doing now.
If genealogy software producers aren't making software packages that
will open the oldest versions, we need to insist. Especially Paf and
Gedcom files.
In building my GedcomIndex.com stuff, I have come across old GEDCOM
files that have longer tags, like 0 HEADER instead of 0 HEAD and 0
TRAILER instead of 0 TRLR. Newer software needs to be able to read
these.
Gedcom 5.5 is a perfectly good standard for compatibility. If you
export something, export it in Gedcom 5.5 even if you also export it
and publish it in another format.
I'm told the CD's I burn in my machine won't last as long as CD's
manufactured professionally. That's another concern. Maybe printing the
GEDCOM file on acid-free paper and packaging it in a box with labels on
it is the best solution. Then the pages can be fed into a scanner
without unstapling and ripping along the staple holes.
Tom Alciere
smart person
Nashua, New Hampshire
-
laberday
Re: Genealogy and backward compatibility
I'm sorry I started this tread. You people have equipment older than
my ancestors ;~)
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:10:11 PST,
[email protected] (Everett M. Greene) wrote:
my ancestors ;~)
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:10:11 PST,
[email protected] (Everett M. Greene) wrote:
Paul Blair <[email protected]> writes:
Sherry wrote:
[email protected] wrote
Frank here and good points.
Media ISN'T forever (even CD's). How many of you have a 5 1/4 inch
floppy around. Paper copies are great.
raising hand and waving> I do!!! I even have some single-sided single-
density floppies and the computer (Atari 800XL) to run them on!!!
Bragging time? I have a Commodore Plus4, a 1571 disk drive (which I can
use to read old Commodore disks on my PC via a Heath Robinson cable!
Sadly, I chucked out my old Wang 8" floppies....I mean, you can only
keep so much
I still have my 8" drives and could probably have them
running in a few minutes after dragging them out of
the attic (if I can remember how to operate the
computer to which they'd be attached). Today, I
hardly ever use floppies -- the internal drive on my
main computer has been dead for years.