web page generation for DNA projects

[Doug McDonald]

The Clan Donald is going to be puutting our DNA project on
the Web, and a goodly hunk of the job falls to me.

We are currently the largest project, and getting larger.
We are so large that we are going to go to a much larger
number of markers. We have not decided yet how many, but
it certainly will be 60 or more.

So the question arises "how to show all this data so that
it is convenient, user friendly, easy to see, does not take
forever to load, and works on ALL browsers without ugly
browser-specific code."

One thing we would like to do is have the data ... the table
or markers ... scroll horizontally while leaving the name of
the member (and perhaps haplogroup, family line association,
etc.) stay put at the left of the page. Ideally there would
be columns at the top of the data giving the marker name
which would not scroll when one vertically scrolled through
the list of names.

And oh yes ... we'd like all this to be automatically
generated from the data in Excel or some database.

Now in fact Excel itself does this scrolling beautifully, as
it has the ability to split the screen both horizontally and
vertically, and it "just works" just as I would want it!

I've been looking at Web page design, HTML, CSS, etc. and am
bemused and horrified.

Advice is requested!

Doug McDonald

[Joe Makowiec]

On 13 Mar 2006 in soc.genealogy.computing, Doug McDonald wrote:

So the question arises "how to show all this data so that
it is convenient, user friendly, easy to see, does not take
forever to load, and works on ALL browsers without ugly
browser-specific code."

Good web design involves creating browser-agnostic code. In any case,
what you're talking about is far better done server-side, so the
browser will never see it.

One thing we would like to do is have the data ... the table
or markers ... scroll horizontally while leaving the name of
the member (and perhaps haplogroup, family line association,
etc.) stay put at the left of the page. Ideally there would
be columns at the top of the data giving the marker name
which would not scroll when one vertically scrolled through
the list of names.

In general, horizontal scrolling is frowned on. It's not that it's
necessarily bad; it's just that people have become adjusted to vertical
scrolling, and it's so much easier to do. (Check the scroll wheel on
your mouse...)

And oh yes ... we'd like all this to be automatically
generated from the data in Excel or some database.

You really don't want to use Excel for this. It can be used for web
databases, but it ain't fun.

Could you post a sample of the data, and maybe some idea of what you'd
like the page to look like?

Also:
- What web resources do you have available?
- Is this going to go onto an existing website?
- If so, what kind of scripting is available?

--
Joe Makowiec
- whose wife's ggrandmother was a McBride McDONALD from Antigonish
County, Nova Scotia
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe

[Doug McDonald]

Joe Makowiec wrote:

One thing we would like to do is have the data ... the table
or markers ... scroll horizontally while leaving the name of
the member (and perhaps haplogroup, family line association,
etc.) stay put at the left of the page. Ideally there would
be columns at the top of the data giving the marker name
which would not scroll when one vertically scrolled through
the list of names.

In general, horizontal scrolling is frowned on. It's not that it's
necessarily bad; it's just that people have become adjusted to vertical
scrolling, and it's so much easier to do. (Check the scroll wheel on
your mouse...)

Well, you may frown on horizontal scrolling, but its either
that or split the data into multiple tables that cannot be
viewed simultaneously on one screen. They could if the data
set was teensy, but it isn't ... currently it is a matrix of
some 300 high and 37 wide. Soon it will be 60 or more wide
and 400 or 500 or, hopefully, 1000 high. The 1000 will be
split up, however. The 60 or 88 or whatever really should
not be. I'm afraid that scrolling is the correct answer.

And oh yes ... we'd like all this to be automatically
generated from the data in Excel or some database.

You really don't want to use Excel for this. It can be used for web
databases, but it ain't fun.

Could you post a sample of the data, and maybe some idea of what you'd
like the page to look like?

examples:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wellsfam/dnapr ... ults1.html


Which does not do vertical scrolling and thus is harder to
look at in toto

and http://www.kerchner.com/kerchdna.htm

which does not do horizontal scrolling and is worse

and
http://www.familytreedna.com/(mht4tq45hc5tsoifmckl1f2y)/public/hurst/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on

which is provided by the testing company. Imagine what it
would be like with 60 or 80 vertical columns.

and finally a well-done one, fairly but not hugely large,
similar perhaps to what I want,

http://bartonsite.org/Modals/Modals.htm

though I thinking of splitting it into pieces that
scroll vertically separately.

Also:
- What web resources do you have available?

adequate, presumably

- Is this going to go onto an existing website?

presumably, either the Clan Donald USA site of the
Clan Donald Edinburgh

However, Isn't it possible to have the whole project
split across web sites, that is, have all but the DNA
project on those sites and the DNA project on my site?
We've got resources galore.

- If so, what kind of scripting is available?

I don't know, that is an interesting question for the

two Clan Donald sites. We've got everything or it can be
added ... we're huge.

Doug McDonald

[singhals]

Doug McDonald wrote:

Joe Makowiec wrote:

One thing we would like to do is have the data ... the table or
markers ... scroll horizontally while leaving the name of the member
(and perhaps haplogroup, family line association, etc.) stay put at
the left of the page. Ideally there would be columns at the top of
the data giving the marker name which would not scroll when one
vertically scrolled through the list of names.


In general, horizontal scrolling is frowned on. It's not that it's
necessarily bad; it's just that people have become adjusted to
vertical scrolling, and it's so much easier to do. (Check the scroll
wheel on your mouse...)


Well, you may frown on horizontal scrolling, but its either that or
split the data into multiple tables that cannot be viewed simultaneously
on one screen. They could if the data
set was teensy, but it isn't ... currently it is a matrix of
some 300 high and 37 wide. Soon it will be 60 or more wide and 400 or
500 or, hopefully, 1000 high. The 1000 will be split up, however. The 60
or 88 or whatever really should not be. I'm afraid that scrolling is the
correct answer.



And oh yes ... we'd like all this to be automatically generated from
the data in Excel or some database.


You really don't want to use Excel for this. It can be used for web
databases, but it ain't fun.

Could you post a sample of the data, and maybe some idea of what you'd
like the page to look like?


examples:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wellsfam/dnapr ... ults1.html


Which does not do vertical scrolling and thus is harder to look at in toto

and http://www.kerchner.com/kerchdna.htm

which does not do horizontal scrolling and is worse

and
http://www.familytreedna.com/(mht4tq45hc5tsoifmckl1f2y)/public/hurst/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on


which is provided by the testing company. Imagine what it would be like
with 60 or 80 vertical columns.

and finally a well-done one, fairly but not hugely large,
similar perhaps to what I want,

http://bartonsite.org/Modals/Modals.htm

though I thinking of splitting it into pieces that
scroll vertically separately.



Also:
- What web resources do you have available?


adequate, presumably

- Is this going to go onto an existing website?


presumably, either the Clan Donald USA site of the
Clan Donald Edinburgh

However, Isn't it possible to have the whole project
split across web sites, that is, have all but the DNA
project on those sites and the DNA project on my site?
We've got resources galore.

- If so, what kind of scripting is available?

I don't know, that is an interesting question for the
two Clan Donald sites. We've got everything or it can be added ... we're
huge.

Doug McDonald

With a table of that size, you probably need to do some color-coding --
5 lines of color x as the background, 5 of white background type thing
-- because it is FATALLY easy to scroll one or more lines vertically
while pulling the cursor to the right.

Then too, there's the issue of, how useful such a chart would be. Are
you *sure* it wouldn't be easier to present it as PDFs which can be done
in landscape which MIGHT be easier to fit to the page? I grant that for
the folks who have a deep and abiding interest in genetics or
charts'n'data, what you're proposing is enchanting. (g) For the poor
sod who wants only to know, Is my DNA from Inverness or Dublin or
Sumatra, it's TMI cubed.

Kudos to your determination to even consider trying to code this, Gunga
Din. (g)

Cheryl

[Paul Blair]

singhals wrote:

Doug McDonald wrote:

Joe Makowiec wrote:

One thing we would like to do is have the data ... the table or
markers ... scroll horizontally while leaving the name of the member
(and perhaps haplogroup, family line association, etc.) stay put at
the left of the page. Ideally there would be columns at the top of
the data giving the marker name which would not scroll when one
vertically scrolled through the list of names.


In general, horizontal scrolling is frowned on. It's not that it's
necessarily bad; it's just that people have become adjusted to
vertical scrolling, and it's so much easier to do. (Check the scroll
wheel on your mouse...)


Well, you may frown on horizontal scrolling, but its either that or
split the data into multiple tables that cannot be viewed
simultaneously on one screen. They could if the data
set was teensy, but it isn't ... currently it is a matrix of
some 300 high and 37 wide. Soon it will be 60 or more wide and 400 or
500 or, hopefully, 1000 high. The 1000 will be split up, however. The
60 or 88 or whatever really should not be. I'm afraid that scrolling
is the correct answer.



And oh yes ... we'd like all this to be automatically generated from
the data in Excel or some database.


You really don't want to use Excel for this. It can be used for web
databases, but it ain't fun.

Could you post a sample of the data, and maybe some idea of what
you'd like the page to look like?


examples:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wellsfam/dnapr ... ults1.html


Which does not do vertical scrolling and thus is harder to look at in
toto

and http://www.kerchner.com/kerchdna.htm

which does not do horizontal scrolling and is worse

and
http://www.familytreedna.com/(mht4tq45hc5tsoifmckl1f2y)/public/hurst/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on


which is provided by the testing company. Imagine what it would be
like with 60 or 80 vertical columns.

and finally a well-done one, fairly but not hugely large,
similar perhaps to what I want,

http://bartonsite.org/Modals/Modals.htm

though I thinking of splitting it into pieces that
scroll vertically separately.



Also:
- What web resources do you have available?


adequate, presumably

- Is this going to go onto an existing website?


presumably, either the Clan Donald USA site of the
Clan Donald Edinburgh

However, Isn't it possible to have the whole project
split across web sites, that is, have all but the DNA
project on those sites and the DNA project on my site?
We've got resources galore.

- If so, what kind of scripting is available?

I don't know, that is an interesting question for the
two Clan Donald sites. We've got everything or it can be added ...
we're huge.

Doug McDonald


With a table of that size, you probably need to do some color-coding --
5 lines of color x as the background, 5 of white background type thing
-- because it is FATALLY easy to scroll one or more lines vertically
while pulling the cursor to the right.

Then too, there's the issue of, how useful such a chart would be. Are
you *sure* it wouldn't be easier to present it as PDFs which can be done
in landscape which MIGHT be easier to fit to the page? I grant that for
the folks who have a deep and abiding interest in genetics or
charts'n'data, what you're proposing is enchanting. (g) For the poor
sod who wants only to know, Is my DNA from Inverness or Dublin or
Sumatra, it's TMI cubed.

Kudos to your determination to even consider trying to code this, Gunga
Din. (g)

Cheryl

FamilyView does nice charts...shareware

http://ca.geocities.com/familyview2003/

Paul

[Doug McDonald]

singhals wrote:

With a table of that size, you probably need to do some color-coding --
5 lines of color x as the background, 5 of white background type thing
-- because it is FATALLY easy to scroll one or more lines vertically
while pulling the cursor to the right.

Then too, there's the issue of, how useful such a chart would be. Are
you *sure* it wouldn't be easier to present it as PDFs which can be done
in landscape which MIGHT be easier to fit to the page?

Yes I have considered a .pdf. The downside to pdf is that it
is static. It would have to be redone batch-wise rather than
on the fly.

I grant that for
the folks who have a deep and abiding interest in genetics or
charts'n'data, what you're proposing is enchanting. (g) For the poor
sod who wants only to know, Is my DNA from Inverness or Dublin or
Sumatra, it's TMI cubed.

As Sykes said in his book, the Clan Donald and MacDonald is
messy, and there is no getting around that. I want to do the
best we can for everybody. It's doable. We're the biggest
and oldest (oldest line with both rock solid paper AND rock
solid DNA) and we want to be the best, and not just for our
R1a part.

Doug McDonald

[woodydeaux]

Doug -

There is an ActiveWidgets program/package that you might find
interesting at:

http://www.activewidgets.com/javascript ... croll.html

The example on that page seems to be exactly what you are looking for.
Bear in mind that the small example is just that - an example. You
would need to grab the demo to make sure it can be expanded to your
full screen needs.

The program is not free! As a matter of fact it is quite pricey - but
that does not appear to be a problem for your situation.

C. Woodcock

[Robert Heiling]

woodydeaux wrote:

Doug -

There is an ActiveWidgets program/package that you might find
interesting at:

http://www.activewidgets.com/javascript ... croll.html

The example on that page seems to be exactly what you are looking for.
Bear in mind that the small example is just that - an example. You
would need to grab the demo to make sure it can be expanded to your
full screen needs.

The program is not free! As a matter of fact it is quite pricey - but
that does not appear to be a problem for your situation.

That's the one I'd seen in the past and couldn't find recently. It looks to me
also like what he was looking for. The page with only that example is at
http://www.activewidgets.com/examples/grid/basic.htm If that page is maximized,
you don't get the scrolling effect, but when not maximized you can pull in the
window borders with the mouse and get the data to fill the screen and use
scrollbars.

I added some more columns for horizontal scrolling and duplicated the data to
create vertical scrolling in a test case at:
http://home.comcast.net/~robheil/basic.htm Pretty much a clerical task to make
those changes. It's not working for me in Firefox at the moment and that's not
worth chasing right now. Open it in MSIE for now. It's not pretty, but should
give an idea of how that concept would work with a maximized full page. The
javascript that makes that all work is free software under the GNU license, so
the web page work should be the only cost that way.

HTH
Bob