Help needed in Australia
Moderator: MOD_Oslo
Help needed in Australia
I need some help tracking down my great grandfather. I am not sure of his original name and spelling but in Australia he referred to himself as Christopher Johnston.
From my limited knowledge of Norwegian names I assume it may have been something like Christian Johansen
He was born around the 10th April 1836 in Christina
He emigrated to Australia and is listed on the arrival documentation as C R Johannsen 17 years of age. He arrived with two other Johannsen’s Jens (age 24) and J age (27) possibly relations (brothers or cousins?).
His death certificate lists his father as John Johnston occupation Pilot and mother as Mary Ellen however most of the information on the death certificate looks suspect. One family member thought his mother’s name was Johanna Secelia but this may also be wrong.
I have tried looking through the online parish registers but I am not sure I am looking in the right places. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
Thank you in anticipation
Mack
From my limited knowledge of Norwegian names I assume it may have been something like Christian Johansen
He was born around the 10th April 1836 in Christina
He emigrated to Australia and is listed on the arrival documentation as C R Johannsen 17 years of age. He arrived with two other Johannsen’s Jens (age 24) and J age (27) possibly relations (brothers or cousins?).
His death certificate lists his father as John Johnston occupation Pilot and mother as Mary Ellen however most of the information on the death certificate looks suspect. One family member thought his mother’s name was Johanna Secelia but this may also be wrong.
I have tried looking through the online parish registers but I am not sure I am looking in the right places. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
Thank you in anticipation
Mack
- Vidar Sigurd Øverlie
- Innlegg: 1324
- Registrert: 19 okt 2004 17:54:43
- Sted: LARVIK
Re: Help needed in Australia
Hi Mack,
I have not been able to find your Johannsens in Norway, but do you know ship, where and when they arrived in Australia? Have you found them in any passenger lists?
Regards
Vidar
I have not been able to find your Johannsens in Norway, but do you know ship, where and when they arrived in Australia? Have you found them in any passenger lists?
Regards
Vidar
Re: Help needed in Australia
Vidar ,
Thankyou for trying.
I can find him on arrival in Melbourne 17 AUG 1853 on the "DANIEL ROSS" from Hamburg
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/ ... earchid=23
Thanks
Mack
Thankyou for trying.
I can find him on arrival in Melbourne 17 AUG 1853 on the "DANIEL ROSS" from Hamburg
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/ ... earchid=23
Thanks
Mack
- Vidar Sigurd Øverlie
- Innlegg: 1324
- Registrert: 19 okt 2004 17:54:43
- Sted: LARVIK
Re: Help needed in Australia
Mack,
JOHANNSEN C R 17 AUG 1853
JOHANNSEN J 27 AUG 1853
JOHANNSEN JENS 24 AUG 1853
Using the same surname and age range 17-27 years old they could very well be brothers. Since they arrived Melbourne in August 1853 they probably left Hamburg and Norway in April/May 1853.
Do you know what Christopher's initial R stands for or the given name for J. Johannsen?
The book "Emigrants From Hamburg to Australia 1853" http://www.gould.com.au/Emigrants-from- ... qfh009.htm is supposed to include the following information:
Passenger lists from the original Hamburg lists of passengers departing for Australia from the port of Hamburg in 1853. Listed by ship, with an index to emigrants.
Details generally include the former place of residence, and occupation of the emigrant. For each ship physical details are listed together with newspaper reports published on the arrival of the ship in Australia. Includes introductory guide to use of the lists, notes on sailing vessels, German letters, occupations, a table of German place names, list of sources and bibliography.
Maybe there is some relevant information there. It is not available in the libraries in Norway but you may be able to get hold of a copy in Australia.
Regards
Vidar
JOHANNSEN C R 17 AUG 1853
JOHANNSEN J 27 AUG 1853
JOHANNSEN JENS 24 AUG 1853
Using the same surname and age range 17-27 years old they could very well be brothers. Since they arrived Melbourne in August 1853 they probably left Hamburg and Norway in April/May 1853.
Do you know what Christopher's initial R stands for or the given name for J. Johannsen?
The book "Emigrants From Hamburg to Australia 1853" http://www.gould.com.au/Emigrants-from- ... qfh009.htm is supposed to include the following information:
Passenger lists from the original Hamburg lists of passengers departing for Australia from the port of Hamburg in 1853. Listed by ship, with an index to emigrants.
Details generally include the former place of residence, and occupation of the emigrant. For each ship physical details are listed together with newspaper reports published on the arrival of the ship in Australia. Includes introductory guide to use of the lists, notes on sailing vessels, German letters, occupations, a table of German place names, list of sources and bibliography.
Maybe there is some relevant information there. It is not available in the libraries in Norway but you may be able to get hold of a copy in Australia.
Regards
Vidar
Re: Help needed in Australia
Vidar,
I have the book but unfortunately it does not contain much additional information.
Can I do a search to identify a Jens c1829 and Christopher (Christian?) c 1836 with the same mother and father or is it a matter of separate searches and then comparing.
Which parishes should I be looking in that would have been considered Christina?
Mack
Hamburg Passenger Lists
Daniel Ross
The Daniel Ross was a barque of the Ross, Vidal & Co. line with a burden of 196 C.L.'
She was built in 1847 in LUbeck in the Meyer shipyards and commissioned on 20 April 1847.
This was her first of two voyages from Hamburg to Australia. After leaving Sydney, she
visited various trading ports before returning to Hamburg via London in 1854. She was sold in
1858 in Singapore.
From The Argus, Monday, August 22, 1853.
SHIPPING 0 INTELLIGENCE.
ARRIVED.
August 20.-Daniel Ross, barque, 470 tons, D. Kellels, from Hamburgh May
5th. Passengers--cabin: Messrs. M. F. Scherff, Kinderwater, Mendershausen,
Ledin, Schrader, Collin, Hasler, Fratscher, and seventy-two in the steerage. J. B.
Were and Co., agents.
I have the book but unfortunately it does not contain much additional information.
Can I do a search to identify a Jens c1829 and Christopher (Christian?) c 1836 with the same mother and father or is it a matter of separate searches and then comparing.
Which parishes should I be looking in that would have been considered Christina?
Mack
Hamburg Passenger Lists
Daniel Ross
The Daniel Ross was a barque of the Ross, Vidal & Co. line with a burden of 196 C.L.'
She was built in 1847 in LUbeck in the Meyer shipyards and commissioned on 20 April 1847.
This was her first of two voyages from Hamburg to Australia. After leaving Sydney, she
visited various trading ports before returning to Hamburg via London in 1854. She was sold in
1858 in Singapore.
From The Argus, Monday, August 22, 1853.
SHIPPING 0 INTELLIGENCE.
ARRIVED.
August 20.-Daniel Ross, barque, 470 tons, D. Kellels, from Hamburgh May
5th. Passengers--cabin: Messrs. M. F. Scherff, Kinderwater, Mendershausen,
Ledin, Schrader, Collin, Hasler, Fratscher, and seventy-two in the steerage. J. B.
Were and Co., agents.
- Vidar Sigurd Øverlie
- Innlegg: 1324
- Registrert: 19 okt 2004 17:54:43
- Sted: LARVIK
Re: Help needed in Australia
Mack
What was Christiania in 1853 is now called Oslo and parish records are available online at Digitalarkivet's webbsite
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... arch=&js=j
So far, I have not been able to find Christopher Johannsen's baptism in 1836. The parish records in Norway normally includes and index of people leaving the parish (utflyttere) and in theory the Johansens should be included there. However, it is not uncommon that it is recorded several years later or not at all. I have not checked "utflyttere" for the Oslo/Christiania parish records.
It could very well be that Christopher is not born in Christiania but that he left Norway via Christiania. Since his father was a pilot, he most likely lived along the coast somewhere, but the Norwegian coast is very long.
In 1853, regular sailings started between the towns Kristiansand and Bergen in Norway and Hamburg in Germany. It should not be excluded that he travelled via Bergen or Kristiansand to Hamburg.
Christopher was a relatively common name in Norway around 1850 and I am not aware of any good reason for him to change name from Christian to Christopher. However, Christian is more common. In the 1865 census there is 1391 Christopher and 16743 Christian.
Since his surname was Johannsen while travelling to Australia and later change to Johnston I would assume that he used the name Johansen or Johannsen in Norway.
FamilySearch is the only place where I know it is possible to search for children when parent's names are known.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... search.asp
My FamilySearch search attempts have not been successful based on some of the parents names you reported in your first message. I have also searched DIS-Norge's DIStreff database without success but might have overlooked him.
Regards
Vidar
What was Christiania in 1853 is now called Oslo and parish records are available online at Digitalarkivet's webbsite
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... arch=&js=j
So far, I have not been able to find Christopher Johannsen's baptism in 1836. The parish records in Norway normally includes and index of people leaving the parish (utflyttere) and in theory the Johansens should be included there. However, it is not uncommon that it is recorded several years later or not at all. I have not checked "utflyttere" for the Oslo/Christiania parish records.
It could very well be that Christopher is not born in Christiania but that he left Norway via Christiania. Since his father was a pilot, he most likely lived along the coast somewhere, but the Norwegian coast is very long.
In 1853, regular sailings started between the towns Kristiansand and Bergen in Norway and Hamburg in Germany. It should not be excluded that he travelled via Bergen or Kristiansand to Hamburg.
Christopher was a relatively common name in Norway around 1850 and I am not aware of any good reason for him to change name from Christian to Christopher. However, Christian is more common. In the 1865 census there is 1391 Christopher and 16743 Christian.
Since his surname was Johannsen while travelling to Australia and later change to Johnston I would assume that he used the name Johansen or Johannsen in Norway.
FamilySearch is the only place where I know it is possible to search for children when parent's names are known.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... search.asp
My FamilySearch search attempts have not been successful based on some of the parents names you reported in your first message. I have also searched DIS-Norge's DIStreff database without success but might have overlooked him.
Regards
Vidar
Re: Help needed in Australia
Vidar,
Looks like hope is fading that we will find him.
He was known as Christy or Christie do you think that is likely to be an abbreviation of Christopher or something else like Christian?
Thanks for persevering
Mack
Looks like hope is fading that we will find him.
He was known as Christy or Christie do you think that is likely to be an abbreviation of Christopher or something else like Christian?
Thanks for persevering
Mack
- Vidar Sigurd Øverlie
- Innlegg: 1324
- Registrert: 19 okt 2004 17:54:43
- Sted: LARVIK
Re: Help needed in Australia
Mack
Christy or Christie is not likely an abbreviation of Christopher or Christian in Norway. I believe it is not that common in Norway with abbreviations or nicknames as in English speaking countries.
I have checked "utflyttere" in the parish records for the Oslo area in the relevant period without success.
Yes, it looks that hope is fading if not someone reading this thread can come up with something new. I will make a link to this thread in the Australia/NZ forum in case people are looking there.
Regards
Vidar
Christy or Christie is not likely an abbreviation of Christopher or Christian in Norway. I believe it is not that common in Norway with abbreviations or nicknames as in English speaking countries.
I have checked "utflyttere" in the parish records for the Oslo area in the relevant period without success.
Yes, it looks that hope is fading if not someone reading this thread can come up with something new. I will make a link to this thread in the Australia/NZ forum in case people are looking there.
Regards
Vidar