Bruce - A Scottish puzzle

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Leo van de Pas

Bruce - A Scottish puzzle

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 28 okt 2004 04:53:49

Robert Bruce, Lord of Annandale, was born in 1253 and in 1271 married Margaret of Carrick.

The years of birth of their children is a problem to me.

Burke's Guide to the Royal family, as usual, gives the sons first and then the daughters.

born 1274 Robert The Bruce, King of Scots, then Edward, Thomas, Alexander, and Nigel

the daughters are 1. Isabella, 2.Mary, 3.Christian, 4.Matilda, 5.Margaret

Not many dates are available but they present a puzzle.
Daughter nr.3 married circa 1292, has a child in 1293
Daughter nr.1 married in 1293 and has a child in 1297
Daughter nr.2 marries (1st) circa 1312---some twenty years after her sisters, one older and one
younger than herself.

What would be the reason for this? And can anyone indicate a year of birth for these sisters?

With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Bruce - A Scottish puzzle

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2004 08:07:33

Wednesday, 27 October, 2004


Dear Leo,

I believe the primary problem with the Bruce 'children' was, and
is, the unknown birth dates. Following is what little I think we can
say is definite as to the chronological framework (numeration of
individuals named Robert de Brus/Bruce is for
illustration/identification purposes of this post only]:

ca. 1240 Robert de Brus 'I', Lord of Annandale m. Isabel de Clare

July 1243 Robert de Brus 'II', eldest son is born [not 1253]

ca. 1250 Marjorie of Carrick, dau. of Neil, Earl of Carrick
is born

ca. 1266-
1269 Marjorie of Carrick m. Adam de Kilconquhar (1st husband) -
Earl of Carrick (de jure uxoris)

ca. 1270 NN, a daughter, born to Marjorie of Carrick and Adam
de Kilconquhar

Adam de Kilconquhar dies ["Adam de Kilconcath, comes
de Carrick" in Chronicle of Melrose]

1271 Marjorie of Carrick m. Robert de Brus 'II'

11 Jul 1274 Robert de Brus 'III' [Robert "the" Bruce] born

--------

9 Nov 1292 Margaret, Countess of Carrick has died (husband
Robert de Brus 'II' resigns Earldom to son Robert]


So, between 1272 and 1292, Margaret of Carrick gave birth to (at
least) 10 children. I believe the only certainty we have is, that
Robert, the future King of Scots, was the eldest son - short of that,
birth order or dates cannot be stated with certainty.

Two reasons I can think of as to why Mary Bruce married so much
later than her sisters:

1. She may have been one of the younger sisters, born as late
as say 1285-1292. Her marrying ca. 1314/1315 (see next)
would then be not too surprising.....

2. She was likely aged say 23-30 when she first married Sir
Neil Campbell in 1314/1315. Mary Bruce was with her
stepmother Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, and John de
Strathbogie, Earl of Athol when their party was captured
by William, Earl of Ross in September 1306 and turned over
to the English - Mary was then aged say 14 to 21. She was
imprisoned at Roxburgh castle until after the Battle
of Bannockburn (24-25 June 1314), following which she was
released in a prisoner exchange.

The foregoing is what I can provide at present: any further details
I will happily pass along.

Cheers,

John

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