Stanton FitzWarren, co. Wilts. and the Descendants of Sibyl

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Stanton FitzWarren, co. Wilts. and the Descendants of Sibyl

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 okt 2004 04:23:41

Thursday, 21 October, 2004



Hello All,

Sir Reginald, or Reynold fitz Piers, of Blaen Llyfni, co. Brecknock,
died on 5 May 1285, leaving his son John (the future Lord Fitz Reynold)
his eldest son and heir [1]. His ancestry appears well accounted for,
at least back to Herbert fitz Alberic the chamberlain and his wife Emma
of Blois, but an interesting record is provided in Yorkshire
Inquisitions, concerning his IPM of 30 May 1286:

' Reginald Fitz Peter's father, Peter Fitz Herbert, married
Sibil, daughter and co-heiress of Joceus de Dynan, who was
living in the reign of Richard I. Hawyse, the other heiress,
married Fitz Warine. The descent is set out in a suit in
1346 about the next presentation to the church of Staunton,
near Heyworth, in Wiltshire, in which William Fitz Warine
was the plaintiff, and Reginald Fitz Peter's great grandson,
Matthew Fitz Herbert, the defendant (De Banco. Mich. 20
Edw. III., m. 130, quoted in the Genealogist, N.S. x. 28). ' [2]

This identification of Sibyl de Dynan as the wife of Piers fitz
Herbert (d. aft 19 May 1235) and mother of Sir Reynold fitz Piers appears
erroneous if only from a chronogical standpoint: Josce de Dinan, the
father of Sibyl and her sister Hawise, died in 1167. Hawise, wife of
Fulk fitz Warin of Whittington, co. Salop & c., had a large progeny, with
her son and heir Sir Fulk born in 1178 or before [3]. The possibility
that Sibyl could have a son dying in 1285, with an eldest son then aged
30, seems well beyond reason.

There is, however, a possible explanation for this claim, which was
based on the tenure of Sir Matthew Fitz Herbert (Lord FitzReynold) of the
advowson of 'Staunton', or Stanton FitzWarren, co. Wilts. The following
information concerns the manor of Stanton FitzWarren, its early tenure in
the "FitzReynold" family, and contentions with known descendants of
Josce de Dynan:

' In 1190, Reginald fitz Herbert paid the first instalment of a
fine of £100, pro manerio de Caleston et Stanton (Rot. Pipe, 2
Richard I, Wilts). In 1192, Herbert fitz Herbert pays £13 7s.,
and owes £2 3s., of a fine of £ 15 10s., pro manerio de Culeston
et de Stanton quas Reginalus filius suus habuit. ' [4]

' In 1194 Fulk II, Hawise [de Dinan, his wife], Sibil, and Alan
de Plugenay brought a suit of mort d'ancestor against Herbert Fitz
Herbert for the manor of Stanton (now Stanton Fitzwarren), and a
more detailed record of this suit indicates that Herbert was also
being sued for the manor of Calstone..... Apparently Fitz Herbert
won the first round of the suit, for in a new round of lawsuits
beginning in 1228, Fulk III is listed as the plaintiff and Peter
Fitz Herbert (Herbert Fitz Herbert's son) is referred to as the
tenant of Stanton.' [5]

From the foregoing, it is evident the original basis for the tenure
of Stanton FitzWarren in the hands of ancestors of John, Lord FitzReynold
well predates his grandfather Piers fitz Herbert, so the suit of 1346 is
clearly in error, at least as far as Brown's extract from same is
concerned. What appears quite possible, however, is that Sibyl Corbet,
one-time mistress of Henry I of England and wife of Herbert fitz Herbert
the chamberlain (and ancestress of the Fitz Herberts and Lords
FitzReynold) was also the one-time wife of Josce de Dynan, and the
conduit for both the inheritance of Stanton FitzWarren and the
conflicting claims of her descendants. I suggest the relationship
originated as follows:

[NOTE: the marriage of Sibyl Corbet and Josce de Dynan is
conjectured, and unproven]

? = conjectured marriage
<1194> = plaintiff or defendant in mort d'ancestor, 1194
_________________________________________________________


<1> Henry I ~ Sibyl = 1) Herbert = ? 2) Josce de
of England : Corbet I fitz Herbert I Dynan
d. 1135 : I I d. 1167
.............: _____________I__ ______I________
: I I I I
Reginald Herbert Rohese Sibyl Hawise
E of of Stanton, = Henry de = Hugh de = Fulk fitz
Cornwall co. Wilts. la Pomerai Plugenet Warin
I d bef Jul 1204 I d bef 1200 d aft 1194
V <1194> V I <1194>
I I I
I I I
Piers fitz Herbert Alan de Fulk fitz
d. aft 19 May 1235 Plugenet Warin
I <1194> d. aft 1249
I ____I
I I
1)Alice = Reynold fitz Piers Sir Fulk fitz Warin
I d. 5 May 1285 k. at Lewes, 1264
I I
I I
Sir John FitzReynold Sir Fulk FitzWarin
Lord FitzReynold d. 1315
I I
I I
Sir Herbert FitzJohn I
2nd Lord FitzReynold V
I
I William fitz Warin
Sir Matthew FitzHerbert <plaintiff, suit of 1346>
3rd Lord FitzReynold
<defendant, suit of 1346>


There are alternate explanations as to a basis for the 1346 suit,
but the above chart is consistent with the existence of competing claims
in 1194 and 1346. Those other instances of suit of mort d'ancestor I am
familiar with (e.g., Theobald Walter vs. Fulk FitzWarin in 1226) involve
claims to manors or moieties thereof between kinsmen (frequently of the
half-blood), similar to the conjectured relationships shown above.

Should anyone have additional insight into the foregoing dispute, or
relevant suggestions, documentation, commentary or criticism, that would
be welcome as always.

Cheers,

John *



NOTES

[1] CP V:465, sub _FitzReynold_ .

[2] William Brown, ed., Yorkshire Inquisitions (The Yorkshire
Archaeological Society Record Series, Vol. XXIII), II:46,
No. XXXVIII.

[3] Fulk was of age in 1198 [J. Meisel, Barons of the Welsh
Frontier, pp. 90-94; also cf. CP V:494-5, sub _FitzWarin_ ].

[4] John Ross Delafield, Delafield: The Family History (privately
published, 1945), cites Eyton, Antiquities of Shropshire, and Rot.
Curiae Regis, I, 35, 37.

[5] Meisel, p. 94.


* John P. Ravilious

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