C,P, Addition: New daughters for Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl o

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Douglas Richardson

C,P, Addition: New daughters for Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl o

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 08 okt 2004 19:19:19

Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage discusses the life history and career of Geoffrey
Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex (died 1213) at length, but only gives
indirect attention to naming his children by his two wives, Beatrice
de Say, and Aveline de Clare. Studying the Essex account in volume V,
it is clear that Geoffrey Fitz Peter had at least three sons and one
daughter by his first marriage, namely Geoffrey, William, Henry (a
priest), and Maud (wife of Henry de Bohun and Roger de Dauntsey).

The statement is made in Volume 5, page 126, footnote a, that the
children of Beatrice de Say [Geoffrey's first wife] "assumed" the
surname of Mandeville. This is certainly true for the two elder sons,
Geoffrey and William, and evidently for the daughter, Maud, but not
for Henry. Complete Peerage includes a record of Henry on page 130,
footnote c, dated 1205, in which Henry is specifically styled "Henry
filius Galfridi Comitis Essex" (that is, Henry son of Geoffrey, Earl
of Essex). All other records I have seen of Henry refer to him as
Henry Fitz Geoffrey, never as Henry de Mandeville [see, for example,
C.D. Ross, The Cartulary of Circencester Abbey, Gloucestershire 2
(1964): 340].

Geoffrey Fitz Peter's children by his 2nd marriage are elsewhere
covered by a chart found in Complete Peerage, volume 5, pg. 427 (sub
Fitz John). This chart shows that Geoffrey Fitz Peter had three
children by his 2nd wife, Aveline de Clare, namely one son, John Fitz
Geoffrey, and two daughters, Cecily (wife of Savary de Bohun) and
Hawise (wife of Reynold de Mohun). Unfortunately, no sources are
given for the chart.

Reviewing the information presented in the Essex and Fitz John
accounts in Complete Peerage, I find that several children of Geoffrey
Fitz Peter are completely ignored or overlooked by Complete Peerage.
I posted earlier regarding an unnamed and hitherto overlooked daughter
of Geoffrey Fitz Peter by his 2nd wife, Aveline de Clare, who married
a de la Rochelle, of Wiltshire and Essex. This daughter left a son
and heir, Richard de la Rochelle, which Richard de la Rochelle is
specifically styled "nephew" to John Fitz Geoffrey [son of Geoffrey
Fitz Peter] in Irish records. Both Richard de la Rochelle and John
Fitz Geoffrey served as Justiciars of Ireland. Please see a copy of
my earlier post regarding Richard de la Rochelle below.

Besides the de la Rochelle daughter, Geoffrey Fitz Peter had at least
one other daughter, Alice, by his first wife, Beatrice de Say, and
another daughter, Maud, by his second wife, Aveline de Clare. They
will be discussed in turn below.

The evidence for Geoffrey Fitz Peter's new daughter, Alice, by
Beatrice de Say is found in the source, Earliest English Law Reports,
by Paul A. Brand, volume 1 (Selden Society 111) (1996), pp. 84-91. An
abstract of a law report dated prior to 1275 is presented in this
book. It specifically quotes Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Essex (died
1275), who provides information regarding his immediate family tree:

"The earl [Humphrey de Bohun] says that William de Mandeville has
another heir as well as himself for the inheritance which he held, the
said John Fitz John, who is seised of part of the tenements that
belonged to William. He explains that Geoffrey Fitz Peter first
married a wife named Beatrice, who had tenements by inheritance
herself, and by whom he had children, Geoffrey and William, Maud and
Alice; when Beatrice died he had a second wife named Aveline, by whom
he had a son, John Fitz Geoffrey, the father of the said John Fitz
John, whose heir he is. After the death of the said Geoffrey Fitz
Peter, Geoffrey his son entered into all the lands, both those which
descended to him from his father and those which descended him to him
from his mother. When he died without issue they descended to William
de Mandeville, earl of Essex, as his brother and heir. After
William's death, when he died without issue, John Fitz Geoffrey, his
half-brother on his father's side, entered into the tenements which
had come to William from his father and Maud, because her sister Alice
was already dead, entered as heir into that part of the tenements
which had come to William from his mother Beatrice. From Maud these
lands had descended to the earl as son and heir. Since John Fitz John
is seised of part of the tenements which had belonged to William as
his heir he asks judgement whether he is obliged to warrant without
John, since he has only part of the inheritance as one of the heirs of
William." END OF QUOTE.

Earl Humphrey de Bohun's statement above implies that his mother's
sister, Alice, was living at the time of his grandfather's, Geoffrey
Fitz Peter's death in 1213; otherwise there would have been no reason
to mention Alice in the lawsuit. We can be certain that Alice had
died without issue sometime before before her brother, William de
Mandeville, as upon William's death in 1227, his full-sister and
heiress, Maud de Bohun (mother of Earl Humphrey), was alone granted
livery of William's lands at this date. Had Alice been living in
1227, she would have shared William's lands equally with her sister,
Maud.

[TO BE CONTINUED].

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: douglasrichardson@royalancestry.net

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


= = = = = = = = = = = = =
COPY OF EARLIER POST:
From: royalancestry@msn.com (Douglas Richardson)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Richard de la Rochelle, grandson of Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl
of Essex
Date: 20 Apr 2003 10:21:37 -0700

Dear Newsgroup ~

Some time ago, I posted regarding Richard de la Rochelle, a hitherto
little noticed grandson of Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex, in the
reign of King John. Richard is not included in a pedigree chart of
the Fitz Geoffrey family which appears in Complete Peerage, 5 (1926):
437 (sub Fitz John).

Below is some bibiographical information regarding Richard de la
Rochelle which I came across in recent time.

The following New World immigrants descend from Richard de la
Rochelle's descendant and heiress, Maud de la Rochelle (or Rockele),
wife of Sir Maurice le Brun:

1. Edward Digges.

2. Elizabeth & John Harleston.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com

- - - - - -
Source: Maurice P. Sheehy, Pontificia Hibernica 2 (1965): 243,
footnote 7:

"Richard de la Rochelle was lieutenant of lord Edward in Ireland
during 1254. He was nephew of John Fitz Geoffrey. He held the manor
of Aughrim in Omany, and in 1276 made a grant of lands there to the
abbey of St. Mary Dublin for the purpose of founding a Cistercian
monastery at Briole in the parish of Dysart. The monastery was never
built, see G. MacNiocaill, Na Manaigh Liatha in Éirinn 1142-c. 1600
(1959), pg. 16. Richard succeeded William de Dene as justiciar in
Ireland in 1261 and held this post until 1266, see Orpen, op. cit.,
pp. 142,232,246,270,279-283."

Douglas Richardson

Re: C,P, Addition: New daughters for Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Ea

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 09 okt 2004 18:17:16

Dear Newsgroup ~

This is the second part of a two part post regarding several new
daughters for Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex (died 1213). In the
previous post, I discussed evidence from a lawsuit which indicates
that Earl Geoffrey had a hitherto unknown daughter named Alice by his
1st wife, Beatrice de Say. I also referred to an earlier discussion
on the newsgroup which indicated that Earl Geoffrey Fitz Peter had an
unnamed daughter by his 2nd wife, Aveline de Clare, who married _____
de la Rochelle, of Wiltshire and Essex. In the post below, I will
discuss evidence which proves that Earl Geoffrey had yet another
hitherto unknown daughter, Maud, by his second wife, Aveline de Clare.

In 2003, John Ravilious was discussing the connection between the
Earls of Warwick and the Bohun family. In the middle of one of his
posts, John included the following item kindly provided to him by Pat
Patterson from Worthy's Devonshire Parishes:

"This marriage is proved by the "Hundred Roll" = "Milo de Bohun holds
the manor of Gussich Dynaunt, which was at some time forfeited to the
lord, the King, through a certain Roland Dynaunt, a Norman; and the
king gave the said manor to Matilda D'Oyly, but they know not why,
which Matilda was afterwards the wife of William de Cantilupe, and
which manor after Matilda's death came to the hands of Humphrey de
Bohun, the son of the sister of the said Matilda." Gussich Dynaunt was
situated in the county of Dorset." [Reference: Charles Worthy,
Devonshire Parishes, or the Antiquities, Heraldry and Family History
of Twenty-Eight Parishes in the Archdeaconry of Totnes 2 (Exeter,
1889): 31-34].

As we see above, the Hundred Roll item states that Humphrey de Bohun
was the son of the sister of Maud d'Oilly, wife of William de
Cantelowe. However, according to standard reference works, Humphrey
de Bohun's mother, Maud de Mandeville, is not known to have had a
sister, Maud d'Oilly. That Maud d'Oilly really was Earl Humphrey de
Bohun's aunt, however, is indicated by the following additional record
dated 1227-36 found in the published Cartae Miscellaneae of the Duchy
of Lancaster:

"63. Announcement by Maud de Oylly that Maud de Mandevill', Countess
of Essex and Hereford, her sister, has granted her by charter the
manor of Gussage St. Michael, co. Dorset. Witnesses: - John Fitz
Geoffrey, Henry de Kemesek, Simon Fitz Geoffrey, Simon Talebot, W. de
Mandevill' and William Flambard." END OF QUOTE. [Reference: Duchy of
Lancaster, Descriptive List (with Index) of Cartae Miscellaneae, Lists
and Indexes, Supplementary Series, No. V, vol. 3, reprinted 1964, pg.
85].

We see here that Maud d'Oilly specifically refers to Maud de
Mandeville, Countess of Essex, as her sister. This confirms the
statement made in Hundred Roll that Maud d'Oilly who held the manor of
Gussage St. Michael, Dorset was the sister of Humphrey de Bohun's
mother, Maud de Mandeville. In this instance, it seems the only way
for Maud d'Oilly to be the sister of Maud de Mandeville would be for
the two women to be half-sisters. The women cannot have been full
sisters, otherwise they would have equally heirs to the Mandeville
inheritance, which they were not. The only other conceivable option
would be for Maud d'Oilly to have been the Countess' half-sister,
being the child of Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex, by his 2nd
wife, Aveline de Clare.

As for an explanation for the younger Maud's use of the d'Oilly
surname, it appears she was the 2nd and surviving wife of Henry
d'Oilly II, of Hook Norton, Oxfordshire (died 1232), for whom please
see Sanders, English Baronies (1960): 54. Following Henry d'Oilly
II's death in 1232, Maud married (2nd) William de Cantelowe, as stated
by the Hundred Roll.

In summary, we find that Earl Geoffrey Fitz Peter had a total of five
children by his 1st wife, Beatrice de Say, namely, three sons,
Geoffrey, William, and Henry, and two daughters, Maud and Alice. He
likewise had a total of five children by his 2nd wife, Aveline de
Clare, namely one son, John Fitz Geoffrey, and four daughters, Cecily
(wife of Savary de Bohun), Hawise (wife of Reynold de Mohun), ______
(wife of _____ de la Rochelle), and Maud (wife of Henry d'Oilly II and
William de Cantelowe).

I wish to thank Chris Phillips and John Ravilious for providing their
assistance in the preparation of this post.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: douglasrichardson@royalancestry.net

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Douglas Richardson

Re: C,P, Addition: New daughters for Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Ea

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 12 okt 2004 07:36:40

Dear Newsgroup ~

As a followup to my two-part post earlier this week regarding several
hitherto unknown daughters of Earl Geoffrey Fitz Peter (died 1213), I
can add the following information concerning Earl Geoffrey's grandson,
Richard de la Rochelle (or, de la Rokele). The item below is taken
from the online source, Gazateer of Markets and Fairs to 1516, found
on the following website:

http://www.history.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/wilts.html

As indicated in the gazateer, Richard de la Rochelle (or Rokele) was
granted a market at Market Lavington, Wiltshire in 1254 by King Henry
III. In 1435 King Henry VI confirmed the original 1254 charter to
Richard de la Rochelle's descendant anmd heir, Maurice Bruyn, Knt.
This record proves that the Bruyn family of Essex and Kent were in
fact the lineal heirs of Richard de la Rochelle. This should add some
new ancestry to several posters here on the newsgroup.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Referemce: GAZETTEER OF MARKETS AND FAIRS TO 1516

WILTSHIRE

MARKET LAVINGTON 4014 1541. 1334 Subsidy £127.50. Market town c.1600
(Everitt, p. 471). See also VCH Wiltshire, x, pp. 99-100.
M (Charter) Wed; mercatum, gr 27 Sept 1254, by K Hen III to Richard
de la Rokele. To be held at the manor (Roles Gascons, 1242-54, no.
4166; CPR, 1247-58, p. 341). Mandate to the sh of Wiltshire not to
permit the market, which was damaging that at Devizes, Wiltshire
(q.v.), 19 May 1255. This was cancelled as the writ was not sealed.
Marginal note: 'Because he does not have it'; (CR, 1254-6, p. 86). On
3 Sept 1260, a case was coram rege between K Hen III and Richard de la
Rokel'; whose market was alleged to be damaging that at Devizes,
Wiltshire (q.v.) (CR, 1259-61, p. 125). In 1268, Richard de la Rokele
alleged that the value of his market had decreased by £40 as a result
of the market at Steeple Ashton, Wiltshire (q.v.). In the late
thirteenth century, the market was granted to Emily, wife of Maurice
fitz Maurice, as part of the division of the manor (VCH Wiltshire, x,
p. 99). On 7 May 1435, the K Hen VI confirmed the 1254 charter to
Maurice Bruyne, kn (CPR, 1429-36, p. 458). Market continued until the
mid nineteenth century (VCH Wiltshire, x, p. 99).
F (Charter) vfm, Assumption of Mary (15 Aug); feria gr 27 Sept 1254,
by K Hen III to Richard de la Rokele. To be held at the manor (Roles
Gascons, 1242-54, no. 4166; CPR, 1247-58, p. 341). After the division
of the manor in the late thirteenth century, the fair passed to the
Edington rectors of the manor (VCH Wiltshire, x, p. 100). On 7 May
1435, K Hen VI confirmed the grant of the fair, the feast of which was
not given, to Maurice Bruyne, kn, the current tenant (CPR, 1429-36, p.
458). Fair was recorded in 1539. In 1830, the fair was said to be held
on 10 Aug. There is no further evidence for the fair (VCH Wiltshire,
x, p. 100).

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