More Nicholas Carrew/Isabella ___?

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
judy perry

More Nicholas Carrew/Isabella ___?

Legg inn av judy perry » 07 sep 2004 20:38:36

Hi again,

Per someone's suggestion (Tim Powys-Lybbe? I hope I spelled it
correctly...) I started looking for other families bearing the three
catherine wheels given as arms for Nicholas Carrew's (of Beddington,
d. 1432ish) first wife Isabella, commonly surnamed "Delamare".

One of the families he suggested was that of Espeke/Espec. This
family does seem to have borne those arms, as can be seen on the
remains of the Kirkham Priory founded by William le Espec in the 12th
century (http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/prior ... priory.htm
; not a good photo, but I have found one and can post it if anyone's
interested).

The problem: Espec died childless (or his son predeceased him,
according to whom you believe) and his arms ended up being marshalled
by the Roos family of Helmsley (sp?), via marriage to William's
younger sister (he seemingly had no brothers), and they are apparently
later found thus, with Roos, on the tomb of Sir John Manners and wife
Dorothy Vernon in an Elizabethan-era tomb at Bakewell Parish Church.

Would I then be tentatively correct in crossing off the Espec family
from the list of possibilities for the finding of three catherine
wheels alone on the Beddington Carrew tomb?

Kindest thanks for any suggestions,

Judy
http://www.katherineswynford.net

Gjest

Re: More Nicholas Carrew/Isabella ___?

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 sep 2004 03:46:43

I have the following note, made many years ago:

SCOTTs of Scotts Hall. The antient arms of Baliol college,
Oxford, founded by John Baliol (grandfather of WILLIAM le
Scot), are belived to have been a catherine wheel, now part
of the paternal coat of this family, which is three such
wheels, sable, within a bordure engrailed, gules; and
although the present arms of that college are now wholly
different, yet there seems some foundation for this
assertion; for on the most antient part of the college now
remaining are two shields carved in stone, having a
catherine wheel in each; and I am informed, the mark of the
college on their plate and furniture, which has been of
long time used, is likewise a catherine wheel. In St Mary's
church, Braborne, the Scott arms dated 1290, are quartered
with: BEAUFITZ, PYMPE, PASHLEY, NORMANVILLE, WARREN,
SERGEAUX, GOWER and COGAN. In which arms of Scott all the
bordures are plain. Tombs of Edward Scott; Arthur Scott
commissioner of the navy 3s of GEORGE of Scotts Hall;
Lt-Col Cholmeley SCOTT youngest son of GEORGE of Scotts
Hall

The source for this is:
`The History and Topographical Survey of the Count of Kent' by
Edward Hasted (reprint 1972) The original 2nd edition was printed 1797-1801.

Unfortunately I have not made a note of the Vol (about a dozen in this
edition) nor page no. If you check the above, note that the indexes are at the
front of each vol.

Adrian

Hi again,

Per someone's suggestion (Tim Powys-Lybbe? I hope I spelled it
correctly...) I started looking for other families bearing the three
catherine wheels given as arms for Nicholas Carrew's (of Beddington,
d. 1432ish) first wife Isabella, commonly surnamed "Delamare".

One of the families he suggested was that of Espeke/Espec. This
family does seem to have borne those arms, as can be seen on the
remains of the Kirkham Priory founded by William le Espec in the 12th
century (http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/prior ... priory.htm
; not a good photo, but I have found one and can post it if anyone's
interested).

The problem: Espec died childless (or his son predeceased him,
according to whom you believe) and his arms ended up being marshalled
by the Roos family of Helmsley (sp?), via marriage to William's
younger sister (he seemingly had no brothers), and they are apparently
later found thus, with Roos, on the tomb of Sir John Manners and wife
Dorothy Vernon in an Elizabethan-era tomb at Bakewell Parish Church.

Would I then be tentatively correct in crossing off the Espec family
from the list of possibilities for the finding of three catherine
wheels alone on the Beddington Carrew tomb?

Kindest thanks for any suggestions,

Judy
http://www.katherineswynford.net


Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»