Does anyone have a full list of the children of Henry de Beaumont,
Earl of Buchan, and his wife Alice Comyn? The ones I have so far:
1) John de Beaumont, eldest son and heir, b. 25 Dec. 1317, suc. his
father.
2) Thomas de Beaumont, of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, b. 30 Nov. 1324
1) Isabel de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. before 24 June 1330, Henry, Duke of
Lancaster
2) Agnes de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. 1343, Thomas de Lucy
Thanks and Cheers, -----Brad
Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Louise Staley
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
On 27 Aug 2004 19:51:53 -0700, Brad Verity <batruth@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Brad,
I also have Joan who married Fulk VII Fitzwarine, 3rd Baron Fitzwarine d.
25 July 1349. Under the barony of Fitzwarine CP says "He married (it is
said) Joan, daughter of Henry (DE BEAUMONT), EARL of BUCHAN, by Alice,
daughter of Sir Alexander Comyn." So presumably CP got this from a
Visitation. I'd be interested in whether anyone has any views as to
whether Joan is a daughter or not.
regards
Louise
--
Quod dixi dixi
Does anyone have a full list of the children of Henry de Beaumont,
Earl of Buchan, and his wife Alice Comyn? The ones I have so far:
1) John de Beaumont, eldest son and heir, b. 25 Dec. 1317, suc. his
father.
2) Thomas de Beaumont, of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, b. 30 Nov. 1324
1) Isabel de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. before 24 June 1330, Henry, Duke of
Lancaster
2) Agnes de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. 1343, Thomas de Lucy
Thanks and Cheers, -----Brad
Dear Brad,
I also have Joan who married Fulk VII Fitzwarine, 3rd Baron Fitzwarine d.
25 July 1349. Under the barony of Fitzwarine CP says "He married (it is
said) Joan, daughter of Henry (DE BEAUMONT), EARL of BUCHAN, by Alice,
daughter of Sir Alexander Comyn." So presumably CP got this from a
Visitation. I'd be interested in whether anyone has any views as to
whether Joan is a daughter or not.
regards
Louise
--
Quod dixi dixi
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
In message of 28 Aug, Louise Staley <caramut@bigpond.com> wrote:
So I looked it up in the Yorks 1563-4 visitaion as that is where most
old wives tales start. There are a three pages on the Beaumonts
on pp. 18-20. But there was no mention of a Joan. Though there is
mention of a second son Andrew Beamont [sic] who then had a son Thomas.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
On 27 Aug 2004 19:51:53 -0700, Brad Verity <batruth@hotmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone have a full list of the children of Henry de Beaumont,
Earl of Buchan, and his wife Alice Comyn? The ones I have so far:
1) John de Beaumont, eldest son and heir, b. 25 Dec. 1317, suc. his
father.
2) Thomas de Beaumont, of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, b. 30 Nov. 1324
1) Isabel de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. before 24 June 1330, Henry, Duke of
Lancaster
2) Agnes de Beaumont, b. 13??, m. 1343, Thomas de Lucy
Thanks and Cheers, -----Brad
Dear Brad,
I also have Joan who married Fulk VII Fitzwarine, 3rd Baron Fitzwarine d.
25 July 1349. Under the barony of Fitzwarine CP says "He married (it is
said) Joan, daughter of Henry (DE BEAUMONT), EARL of BUCHAN, by Alice,
daughter of Sir Alexander Comyn." So presumably CP got this from a
Visitation. I'd be interested in whether anyone has any views as to
whether Joan is a daughter or not.
So I looked it up in the Yorks 1563-4 visitaion as that is where most
old wives tales start. There are a three pages on the Beaumonts
on pp. 18-20. But there was no mention of a Joan. Though there is
mention of a second son Andrew Beamont [sic] who then had a son Thomas.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Gjest
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Saturday, 28 August, 2004
Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
and Alice Comyn.
Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Cheers,
John *
1 Henry de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
Occ: Lord Beaumont
Father: Louis de Brienne (->1297)
Mother: Agnes de Beaumont (-1301)
3rd son
titular Earl of Buchan (Scots) de jure uxoris (forfeited by Robert the
Bruce) [2]
summoned to Parliament from 4 Mar 1308/9 to 20 Oct 1332 by writs
directed 'Henrico de Bellomonte', whereby held to have become Lord
Beaumont
fought at Battle of Bannockburn, 24 June 1314[3]:
' Gloucester, with the van, entered the park, where he was met, as we
shall see, and Clifford, Beaumont, and Sir Thomas Grey, with three
hundred horsemen, skirted the wood where Randolph was posted, a clear
way lying before them to the castle of Stirling. Bruce had seen this
movement, and told Randolph that "a rose of his chaplet was fallen,"
the phrase attesting the King's love of chivalrous romance. To pursue
horsemen with infantry seemed vain enough; but Randolph moved out of
cover, thinking perhaps that knights adventurous would refuse no
chance to fight. If this was his thought, he reckoned well.
Beaumont cried to his knights, "Give ground, leave them fair
field." Grey hinted that the Scots were in too great force, and
Beaumont answered, "If you fear, fly!" "Sir," said Sir Thomas, "for
fear I fly not this day!" and so spurred in between Beaumont and
D'Eyncourt and galloped on the spears. D'Eyncourt was slain, Grey was
unhorsed and taken. ' [Andrew Lang[4] ]
Spouse: Alice Comyn, co-heiress of the Earldom of Buchan
Death: 3 Jul 1349[5]
Father: Sir Alexander Comyn, lord of Dingwall (-ca1308)
Mother: Joan le Latimer
Marr: bef 14 Mar 1310[1]
Children: John (ca1317-<1342)
Catherine
Isabel
Agnes
Elizabeth (-1400)
Alice
Joan
Richard
Thomas
Beatrice
1.1 John Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1317[6],[7]
Death: bef 25 May 1342[8]
Occ: Lord Beaumont
2nd Lord Beaumont
summoned to Parliament from 23 Feb 1342/43 by writ directed 'Johanni de
Bello Monte', held thereby to have been Lord Beaumont [never summoned
as Earl of Buchan][2]
1st husband of Eleanor of Lancaster[7]
Spouse: Eleanor of Lancaster
Death: 11 Jan 1372[6]
Father: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: bef Jun 1337[6]
Children: Henry, Lord Beaumont (<1340-1369)
1.2 Catherine Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. CP (Athol, Earls of)[2]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: David of Strathbogie, titular Earl of Athol
Birth: 1 Feb 1308, Newcastle on Tyne[2]
Death: 30 Nov 1335, Battle of Kilblane[10]
Father: David of Strathbogie (-1326)
Mother: Joan Comyn (-<1326)
Children: David, titular Earl of Athol (1332-1369)
1.3 Isabel de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Faris[7]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster
Birth: ca 1299, Grosmont Castle[5]
Death: 24 Mar 1360, Leicester[5]
Father: Henry of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: ca 1334[7]
Children: Maud (1335-1362), m. Ralph de Stafford
Blanche (1345-1368), m. John 'of Gaunt'
1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
----------------------------------------
cf. Wagner[11]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
Mother: Elizabeth
Marr: 1343[11]
Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
1.5 Elizabeth de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 27 Oct 1400, d.s.p.[2]
Spouse: Nicholas de Audley, Lord Audley
Birth: ca 1328[2]
Death: 22 Jul 1391, d.s.p.[2]
Father: Sir James de Audley (1312-1386)
Mother: Joan de Mortimer
1.6 Alice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.7 Joan de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. D. Richardson[5]
Spouse: Fulk FitzWarin, Lord FitzWarin
Death: 25 Jul 1349[12]
Father: Fulk FitzWarin (<1285-<1336)
Mother: Alianore de Beauchamp
Children: Fulk (1340-1373), 4th Lord FitzWarin
1.8 Richard de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.9 Thomas de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.10 Beatrice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1. Paul Theroff, "House of Brienne," Paul Theroff's Dynastic Genealogy
Files, worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/brienne.txt
2. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and
the United Kingdom.
3. Alan Young, "The Comyns: Robert the Bruce's Rivals, 1212-1314,"
Tuckwell Press (East Linton, Scotland), 1997.
4. "Andrew Lang,"
http://ragz-international.com/battle_of_bannockburn.htm
quotes from his History of Scotland, re: the Battle of Bannockburn.
5. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
royalancestry@msn.com
6. Paul Theroff, "House of Beaumont," Paul Theroff's Dynastic
Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/beaumont.txt
7. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century
Colonists," Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society,
1999, (2nd edition, 1999).
8. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists,"
Baltimore: the Genealogical Pub. Company, 1st ed.
9. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company,
2004.
10. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and
Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
11. Sir Anthony Wagner, "Pedigree and Progress," London: Phillimore &
Co., Ltd., 1975.
12. Rosie Bevan, "Re: CP Correction: Fulk 'III' FitzWarin and His
Descendants," May 11, 2003, paper copy: library of John Ravilious,
cites CIPM v IX no. 177, Inq.p.m. of Fulk FitzWarin (d. 1349),
Rosie Bevan, rbevan@paradise.net.nz.
* John P. Ravilious
Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
and Alice Comyn.
Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Cheers,
John *
1 Henry de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
Occ: Lord Beaumont
Father: Louis de Brienne (->1297)
Mother: Agnes de Beaumont (-1301)
3rd son
titular Earl of Buchan (Scots) de jure uxoris (forfeited by Robert the
Bruce) [2]
summoned to Parliament from 4 Mar 1308/9 to 20 Oct 1332 by writs
directed 'Henrico de Bellomonte', whereby held to have become Lord
Beaumont
fought at Battle of Bannockburn, 24 June 1314[3]:
' Gloucester, with the van, entered the park, where he was met, as we
shall see, and Clifford, Beaumont, and Sir Thomas Grey, with three
hundred horsemen, skirted the wood where Randolph was posted, a clear
way lying before them to the castle of Stirling. Bruce had seen this
movement, and told Randolph that "a rose of his chaplet was fallen,"
the phrase attesting the King's love of chivalrous romance. To pursue
horsemen with infantry seemed vain enough; but Randolph moved out of
cover, thinking perhaps that knights adventurous would refuse no
chance to fight. If this was his thought, he reckoned well.
Beaumont cried to his knights, "Give ground, leave them fair
field." Grey hinted that the Scots were in too great force, and
Beaumont answered, "If you fear, fly!" "Sir," said Sir Thomas, "for
fear I fly not this day!" and so spurred in between Beaumont and
D'Eyncourt and galloped on the spears. D'Eyncourt was slain, Grey was
unhorsed and taken. ' [Andrew Lang[4] ]
Spouse: Alice Comyn, co-heiress of the Earldom of Buchan
Death: 3 Jul 1349[5]
Father: Sir Alexander Comyn, lord of Dingwall (-ca1308)
Mother: Joan le Latimer
Marr: bef 14 Mar 1310[1]
Children: John (ca1317-<1342)
Catherine
Isabel
Agnes
Elizabeth (-1400)
Alice
Joan
Richard
Thomas
Beatrice
1.1 John Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1317[6],[7]
Death: bef 25 May 1342[8]
Occ: Lord Beaumont
2nd Lord Beaumont
summoned to Parliament from 23 Feb 1342/43 by writ directed 'Johanni de
Bello Monte', held thereby to have been Lord Beaumont [never summoned
as Earl of Buchan][2]
1st husband of Eleanor of Lancaster[7]
Spouse: Eleanor of Lancaster
Death: 11 Jan 1372[6]
Father: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: bef Jun 1337[6]
Children: Henry, Lord Beaumont (<1340-1369)
1.2 Catherine Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. CP (Athol, Earls of)[2]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: David of Strathbogie, titular Earl of Athol
Birth: 1 Feb 1308, Newcastle on Tyne[2]
Death: 30 Nov 1335, Battle of Kilblane[10]
Father: David of Strathbogie (-1326)
Mother: Joan Comyn (-<1326)
Children: David, titular Earl of Athol (1332-1369)
1.3 Isabel de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Faris[7]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster
Birth: ca 1299, Grosmont Castle[5]
Death: 24 Mar 1360, Leicester[5]
Father: Henry of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: ca 1334[7]
Children: Maud (1335-1362), m. Ralph de Stafford
Blanche (1345-1368), m. John 'of Gaunt'
1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
----------------------------------------
cf. Wagner[11]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
Mother: Elizabeth
Marr: 1343[11]
Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
1.5 Elizabeth de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 27 Oct 1400, d.s.p.[2]
Spouse: Nicholas de Audley, Lord Audley
Birth: ca 1328[2]
Death: 22 Jul 1391, d.s.p.[2]
Father: Sir James de Audley (1312-1386)
Mother: Joan de Mortimer
1.6 Alice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.7 Joan de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. D. Richardson[5]
Spouse: Fulk FitzWarin, Lord FitzWarin
Death: 25 Jul 1349[12]
Father: Fulk FitzWarin (<1285-<1336)
Mother: Alianore de Beauchamp
Children: Fulk (1340-1373), 4th Lord FitzWarin
1.8 Richard de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.9 Thomas de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1.10 Beatrice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
1. Paul Theroff, "House of Brienne," Paul Theroff's Dynastic Genealogy
Files, worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/brienne.txt
2. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and
the United Kingdom.
3. Alan Young, "The Comyns: Robert the Bruce's Rivals, 1212-1314,"
Tuckwell Press (East Linton, Scotland), 1997.
4. "Andrew Lang,"
http://ragz-international.com/battle_of_bannockburn.htm
quotes from his History of Scotland, re: the Battle of Bannockburn.
5. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
royalancestry@msn.com
6. Paul Theroff, "House of Beaumont," Paul Theroff's Dynastic
Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/beaumont.txt
7. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century
Colonists," Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society,
1999, (2nd edition, 1999).
8. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists,"
Baltimore: the Genealogical Pub. Company, 1st ed.
9. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company,
2004.
10. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and
Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
11. Sir Anthony Wagner, "Pedigree and Progress," London: Phillimore &
Co., Ltd., 1975.
12. Rosie Bevan, "Re: CP Correction: Fulk 'III' FitzWarin and His
Descendants," May 11, 2003, paper copy: library of John Ravilious,
cites CIPM v IX no. 177, Inq.p.m. of Fulk FitzWarin (d. 1349),
Rosie Bevan, rbevan@paradise.net.nz.
* John P. Ravilious
-
CE Wood
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Therav3@aol.com wrote in message news:<9a.1313e7b1.2e61d902@aol.com>...
Your posts are also so informative!
I am confused, though by the above, as I thought Thomas de Lucy
married Margaret Multon (c 1310->1341), daughter of Thomas de Multon(
-c 1322) and Alianore de Burgh ( ->1324), and were the parents of
Maud, as per Complete Peerage,Lucy article, Vol VIII, p. 253.
I also see your reference to Douglas Richardson's, Plantagenet
Ancestry, as your source for Agnes being the wife and mother in
question.
Do we know where he found this?
Do we know who really is Maud's mother?
CE Wood
Saturday, 28 August, 2004
1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
----------------------------------------
cf. Wagner[11]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
Mother: Elizabeth
Marr: 1343[11]
Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
Your posts are also so informative!
I am confused, though by the above, as I thought Thomas de Lucy
married Margaret Multon (c 1310->1341), daughter of Thomas de Multon(
-c 1322) and Alianore de Burgh ( ->1324), and were the parents of
Maud, as per Complete Peerage,Lucy article, Vol VIII, p. 253.
I also see your reference to Douglas Richardson's, Plantagenet
Ancestry, as your source for Agnes being the wife and mother in
question.
Do we know where he found this?
Do we know who really is Maud's mother?
CE Wood
-
Gjest
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Monday, 30 August, 2004
Dear CE,
Thanks for your kind words, and your query.
You are correct as to Thomas de Lucy having married (1stly)
"about Nov. 1329" Margaret de Multon - she was the mother of his
eldest son Reynold (dvp), and also his son and heir Anthony de
Lucy, Lord Lucy (dspm 1368). Margaret de Multon died after Sept.
1341; Thomas de Lucy married (2ndly) ca. July 1343 to 'the King's
kinswoman' Agnes de Beaumont.
Maud is indicated as being born say 1343-1345 (CP VIII:254
says she was '26 and more' in 1369, and '30 and more' in 1375).
There evidently is no more precision as to her birthdate.
I (not Doug) show Maud as being the daughter of Agnes. There
is of course the possibility that she could have been the
daughter of Margaret de Multon given the imprecise dating in CP,
but the genealogical impact is - unfortunately - moot. Maud died
without issue, and settled her estates on her stepson Henry Percy
(aka 'Henry Hotspur').
Hope this is helpful.
Cheers,
John
Dear CE,
Thanks for your kind words, and your query.
You are correct as to Thomas de Lucy having married (1stly)
"about Nov. 1329" Margaret de Multon - she was the mother of his
eldest son Reynold (dvp), and also his son and heir Anthony de
Lucy, Lord Lucy (dspm 1368). Margaret de Multon died after Sept.
1341; Thomas de Lucy married (2ndly) ca. July 1343 to 'the King's
kinswoman' Agnes de Beaumont.
Maud is indicated as being born say 1343-1345 (CP VIII:254
says she was '26 and more' in 1369, and '30 and more' in 1375).
There evidently is no more precision as to her birthdate.
I (not Doug) show Maud as being the daughter of Agnes. There
is of course the possibility that she could have been the
daughter of Margaret de Multon given the imprecise dating in CP,
but the genealogical impact is - unfortunately - moot. Maud died
without issue, and settled her estates on her stepson Henry Percy
(aka 'Henry Hotspur').
Hope this is helpful.
Cheers,
John
-
brad verity
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
and Alice Comyn.
John,
Thank you for the detailed information on the children - it's very helpful.
Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Comments interspersed.
1 Henry de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.
Spouse: Alice Comyn, co-heiress of the Earldom of Buchan
Death: 3 Jul 1349[5]
Father: Sir Alexander Comyn, lord of Dingwall (-ca1308)
Mother: Joan le Latimer
Marr: bef 14 Mar 1310[1]
Children: John (ca1317-<1342)
Catherine
Isabel
Agnes
Elizabeth (-1400)
Alice
Joan
Richard
Thomas
Beatrice
My guess is that Catherine and Isabel were older than John, and that Agnes
and Elizabeth were the youngest daughters, and probably youngest children.
1.1 John Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1317[6],[7]
He was said to have been age 22 last Christmas Day in one of his father's
1340 IPMs. Another one said he was 22 on the last St. Andrew day, but the
jurors may have confused his birthdate with that of his younger brother
Thomas (see below).
Death: bef 25 May 1342[8]
Douglas Richardson found evidence that John was killed at a tournament in
April 1342.
Spouse: Eleanor of Lancaster
Death: 11 Jan 1372[6]
Father: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: bef Jun 1337[6]
Per Duke Henry of Lancaster's modern biographer, Kenneth Fowler, in the book
_The King's Lieutenant_ (1969), p. 26, Eleanor was married to John de
Beaumont between 1 September and 6 November 1330. Fowler combed through
Duchy of Lancaster Miscellanea documents at the PRO, which turned out to be
household accounts of Henry, Earl of Lancaster, from 1328-1330 or so, and
was able to determine the marriage date that way. Beaumont would only be
just turning 13 at his marriage, so comsummation was likely put off for 2 or
3 years, perhaps longer, depending on Eleanor's age.
It's not known exactly how old Eleanor was at the time of her marriage, but
she was doubtless the fifth of Earl Henry's six daughters, only Mary de
Lancaster (who was married on 4 September 1334 at Tutbury Castle to Henry de
Percy) being younger.
Children: Henry, Lord Beaumont (<1340-1369)
Henry was born in Ghent, Flanders, which caused all kinds of confusion for
inheritance. King Edward III, who had requested that Lady Eleanor,
preparing to return to England to give birth, stay in attendance on Queen
Philippa, wrote a letter of assurance in December 1340 that the baby -
probably born late 1339 (he was found to be age 2-and-a-half in one of his
father's 1342 IPMs) was indeed John and Eleanor's and able to inherit, since
there was a law in effect that an heir to an estate had to be born in
England. This worked for the 1342 IPMs following the death of John de
Beaumont, but completely failed for the 1349 IPMs following the death of
Alice, Countess of Buchan (see below). Edward III then had the inheritance
law adjusted in 1350-51 to include heirs born overseas.
1.2 Catherine Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. CP (Athol, Earls of)[2]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: David of Strathbogie, titular Earl of Athol
Birth: 1 Feb 1308, Newcastle on Tyne[2]
Death: 30 Nov 1335, Battle of Kilblane[10]
Father: David of Strathbogie (-1326)
Mother: Joan Comyn (-<1326)
Children: David, titular Earl of Athol (1332-1369)
From the birth of her son in 1332, Catherine de Beaumont would seem to have
been the firstborn child of Henry and Alice.
1.3 Isabel de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Faris[7]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Isabel's birthdate interests me as much as her ever-elusive deathdate
(though we can now say she was definitely dead by June 1361, when a
partition of lands held in dower or otherwise for life of the Lancaster
inheritance shows that there were no lands held in dower). Her marriage in
1330, and travels with her husband and her sister-in-law Eleanor that year,
indicate a teenager at least - so perhaps a birthdate of about 1315 is not
too far off the mark.
If born about 1315, it's interesting that her elder daughter was not born
until early 1340, but there may have been the birth of a son (or two) who
died in infancy beforehand (see below).
Spouse: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster
Birth: ca 1299, Grosmont Castle[5]
Per Fowler, Henry was born about 1310 at Grosmont Castle. The dates of his
marriage and entrance into public life bear this out, rather than a date ten
years previous.
Chronologically, his sister Blanche (married in 1316) was definitely older
than him, and Isabella the Prioress of Amesbury likely was as well. Maude
de Lancaster, married by 16 November 1327 (Fowler) and Joan de Lancaster,
married by 4 June 1328 (Fowler), were likely close to him in age.
Death: 24 Mar 1360, Leicester[5]
In modern style, this was 24 March 1361.
Father: Henry of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
Marr: ca 1334[7]
Per Fowler, Henry of Lancaster and Isabella de Beaumont were married by June
1331, and an entry in Cal. Papal Registers in 1331, confirms they were
husband and wife.
Children: Maud (1335-1362), m. Ralph de Stafford
Maud was born in early 1340.
Blanche (1345-1368), m. John 'of Gaunt'
Blanche was born in 1342.
There were, in addition to the two heiresses, likely two sons who died
young, one born at the Lancaster manor of Kempsford in Gloucestershire,
which is why that manor was later donated by Duke Henry to the church of
Newarke College (Fowler). There were two boys buried near to the tomb of
Henry, Earl of Lancaster (d. 1345) in the church of Newarke College,
according to John Leland who saw the church before it was torn down in
1548-50.
1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
----------------------------------------
cf. Wagner[11]
Richardson p. 83[9]
Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
Mother: Elizabeth
Marr: 1343[11]
Agnes's late marriage date, after the death of her father, makes it likely
she was one of the youngest daughters.
Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
1.5 Elizabeth de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 27 Oct 1400, d.s.p.[2]
Spouse: Nicholas de Audley, Lord Audley
Birth: ca 1328[2]
Death: 22 Jul 1391, d.s.p.[2]
Father: Sir James de Audley (1312-1386)
Mother: Joan de Mortimer
With no estimated date of marriage or child for Elizabeth, it's somewhat
difficult to place her in the birth order, but her death in 1400, sixty
years after her father, would indicate she was one of - if not the -
youngest of the children.
1.6 Alice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Does Richardson give a source for this daughter?
1.7 Joan de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. D. Richardson[5]
Spouse: Fulk FitzWarin, Lord FitzWarin
Death: 25 Jul 1349[12]
Father: Fulk FitzWarin (<1285-<1336)
Mother: Alianore de Beauchamp
Children: Fulk (1340-1373), 4th Lord FitzWarin
Joan's son Fulk's birth in 1340 would indicate she was older than her
sisters Agnes and Elizabeth.
1.8 Richard de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
If Richard was supposed to have been the second son, born between John and
Thomas, he was dead without issue before his mother's 1349 death.
1.9 Thomas de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Thomas was assigned the manor of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, in his father's
1340 IPM. Due to young Henry de Beaumont being born overseas in Ghent,
Thomas was found to be the next heir of his brother John in his mother
Countess Alice's IPMs. He was found in them to be aged 24 and more, with
one specifically saying he was 24 and more on St. Andrew's day last.
1.10 Beatrice de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Again, it would be interesting to know what Douglas's source is for this
daughter.
Thanks again, John, for the thorough list of children and your sources.
Cheers, -----Brad
-
John Ravilious
Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Thursday, 2 September, 2004
Dear Brad,
Thanks for your review of the prior post.
I will review the points you made in more detail, but two items quickly:
1. I had not to date dealt with fine-tuning the order of birth of
the children of Henry de Beaumont in my database. Your notes
and observations on this issue are much appreciated.
2. As to dating (so to speak), I wrote/you responded in one case:
_______________________________
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.
_______________________________
My database notes carry the date correctly as 10 Mar 1339/40;
unfortunately the Date display will only carry a 'normal' date,
which I always show as the first portion of the date only.
This affects other dates in the pedigree I posted, and would
explain other date 'differences' between your records and mine.
More to follow.
Cheers,
John
batruth@hotmail.com ("brad verity") wrote in message news:<BAY16-F30KX6uGRt3hw000b5086@hotmail.com>...
Dear Brad,
Thanks for your review of the prior post.
I will review the points you made in more detail, but two items quickly:
1. I had not to date dealt with fine-tuning the order of birth of
the children of Henry de Beaumont in my database. Your notes
and observations on this issue are much appreciated.
2. As to dating (so to speak), I wrote/you responded in one case:
_______________________________
1 Henry de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.
_______________________________
My database notes carry the date correctly as 10 Mar 1339/40;
unfortunately the Date display will only carry a 'normal' date,
which I always show as the first portion of the date only.
This affects other dates in the pedigree I posted, and would
explain other date 'differences' between your records and mine.
More to follow.
Cheers,
John
batruth@hotmail.com ("brad verity") wrote in message news:<BAY16-F30KX6uGRt3hw000b5086@hotmail.com>...
Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
and Alice Comyn.
John,
Thank you for the detailed information on the children - it's very helpful.
Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Comments interspersed.
1 Henry de Beaumont
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.