I don't know if Vickie Elam White is still interested in these people,
but Cussans' _Hertfordshire_, vol. 1, part 2, pp. 162-63, has a good
chart of the Scroggses. P. 180, sub "Great Hadham," gives the
following M.I.--
HERE LYETH DIANIS BURTUN WIDOW THE ELDEST DAUGHTER OF JOHN KNITON ESQ.
OF BAYFORD IN HARFORDSHIRE LEAVING ISSUE MARY LADIE STANLEY OF PATMORE
HALL IN THE SAME COUNTY DECEASED THE 4 DAYE OF FEBRUARY ANNO DOMINI
1616.
See http://tinyurl.com/4fs54
Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
John Brandon
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
Vickie said --
KNIGHTON. After Sir Thomas' death, Mary married a third time
to John SMYTHE, Esq. She was alive in 1622 but went by the
name Dame Mary STANLEY, which was common for women
who remarried to someone of lesser standing than her previous
husband.
However, Cussans' chart shows that the wife of Edward Scroggs was
Penelope Smythe; hence Edward Scroggs' "father John Smythe," whom he
named in his will, was his wife's father, rather than a subsequent
husband of his mother, Mary.
Sir Thomas' wife was Mary (BURTON) SCROGGS, widow of
John SCROGGS and daughter of Edmund BURTON and Dyonis
KNIGHTON. After Sir Thomas' death, Mary married a third time
to John SMYTHE, Esq. She was alive in 1622 but went by the
name Dame Mary STANLEY, which was common for women
who remarried to someone of lesser standing than her previous
husband.
However, Cussans' chart shows that the wife of Edward Scroggs was
Penelope Smythe; hence Edward Scroggs' "father John Smythe," whom he
named in his will, was his wife's father, rather than a subsequent
husband of his mother, Mary.
-
Chris Dickinson
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
John Brandon writes:
I can give a specific example of this usage in my family's archives.
My ancestor Daniel Dickinson referred in his 1693 diary to his father-in-law
as 'Father Lancelot Jackson'.
Chris
However, Cussans' chart shows that the wife of Edward Scroggs was
Penelope Smythe; hence Edward Scroggs' "father John Smythe," whom he
named in his will, was his wife's father, rather than a subsequent
husband of his mother, Mary.
I can give a specific example of this usage in my family's archives.
My ancestor Daniel Dickinson referred in his 1693 diary to his father-in-law
as 'Father Lancelot Jackson'.
Chris
-
Vickie Elam White
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
John Brandon wrote --
Thanks so much for remembering my posting. However, he
called him "father in law", not "father", so he could have been
his step-father or his actual father-in-law.
In his will, Edward left "residue to John SMYTHE Esq. my
father in law and my loving mother his wife, Dame Mary
STANLEY." Source: Genealogical Gleanings in England,
Vol. 1:825 by Henry F. Waters.
This shows that Mary continued to call herself by her
second, more illustrious married name rather than
SMYTHE.
We know that Edward SCROGGES' mother was named
Mary. Does anyone know if Penelope SMYTHE's mother
was named Mary?
I still think the keys to this would be to figure out which
Sir Thomas STANLEY wrote the 1605 will (proved in
1607) and find out more about his wives; and to find out
about John SMYTHE of Bardfield, Essex and his wife/wives.
I wonder if Dame Mary married her son's widowed
father-in-law?
According to Misc. Gen. et Her., 5th S., III. 77,
John SMYTHE of Barfield's will was proved in
P.C.C. in Oct 1622. Since Edward SCROGGES
named his mother Dame Mary STANLEY and her
husband John SMYTHE, Esq. executors of his will,
and it was proved in October 1622 as well, was
this a different John SMYTHE? Did Dame Mary
prove both wills at the same time? Did John SMYTHE
prove Edward's will shortly before he died and his own
will was proved? Does anyone have access to the
text of John SMYTHE's will?
I appreciate any help on this.
Vickie Elam White
However, Cussans' chart shows that the wife of Edward Scroggs
was Penelope Smythe; hence Edward Scroggs' "father John
Smythe," whom he named in his will, was his wife's father,
rather than a subsequent husband of his mother, Mary.
Thanks so much for remembering my posting. However, he
called him "father in law", not "father", so he could have been
his step-father or his actual father-in-law.
In his will, Edward left "residue to John SMYTHE Esq. my
father in law and my loving mother his wife, Dame Mary
STANLEY." Source: Genealogical Gleanings in England,
Vol. 1:825 by Henry F. Waters.
This shows that Mary continued to call herself by her
second, more illustrious married name rather than
SMYTHE.
We know that Edward SCROGGES' mother was named
Mary. Does anyone know if Penelope SMYTHE's mother
was named Mary?
I still think the keys to this would be to figure out which
Sir Thomas STANLEY wrote the 1605 will (proved in
1607) and find out more about his wives; and to find out
about John SMYTHE of Bardfield, Essex and his wife/wives.
I wonder if Dame Mary married her son's widowed
father-in-law?
According to Misc. Gen. et Her., 5th S., III. 77,
John SMYTHE of Barfield's will was proved in
P.C.C. in Oct 1622. Since Edward SCROGGES
named his mother Dame Mary STANLEY and her
husband John SMYTHE, Esq. executors of his will,
and it was proved in October 1622 as well, was
this a different John SMYTHE? Did Dame Mary
prove both wills at the same time? Did John SMYTHE
prove Edward's will shortly before he died and his own
will was proved? Does anyone have access to the
text of John SMYTHE's will?
I appreciate any help on this.
Vickie Elam White
-
Chris Dickinson
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
Vickie Elam White wrote:
PCC wills are online and can be downloaded at:
http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Chris
According to Misc. Gen. et Her., 5th S., III. 77,
John SMYTHE of Barfield's will was proved in
P.C.C. in Oct 1622. Since Edward SCROGGES
named his mother Dame Mary STANLEY and her
husband John SMYTHE, Esq. executors of his will,
and it was proved in October 1622 as well, was
this a different John SMYTHE? Did Dame Mary
prove both wills at the same time? Did John SMYTHE
prove Edward's will shortly before he died and his own
will was proved? Does anyone have access to the
text of John SMYTHE's will?
PCC wills are online and can be downloaded at:
http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Chris
-
John Brandon
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
This shows that Mary continued to call herself by her
second, more illustrious married name rather than
SMYTHE.
We know that Edward SCROGGES' mother was named
Mary. Does anyone know if Penelope SMYTHE's mother
was named Mary?
I still think the keys to this would be to figure out which
Sir Thomas STANLEY wrote the 1605 will (proved in
1607) and find out more about his wives; and to find out
about John SMYTHE of Bardfield, Essex and his wife/wives.
I wonder if Dame Mary married her son's widowed
father-in-law?
It does seem complicated. I happened to notice that NEHGR, 48:125,
states: "The match of Sir Thomas Stanley with the widow Scroggs is
shown in the Stanley pedigree, printed in the Visitation of Cumberland
for 1615 (Harleian Society's Publications)." So I guess that would
show which family Sir Thomas Stanley belonged to.
-
Chris Dickinson
Re: Scroggs-Stanley-Burton-Harlackenden et. al.
John Brandon wrote:
The 1615 Visitation of Cumberland is available on CD from Rod Neep's Archive
CD Books (ref:#8003cum).
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/
Chris
It does seem complicated. I happened to notice that NEHGR, 48:125,
states: "The match of Sir Thomas Stanley with the widow Scroggs is
shown in the Stanley pedigree, printed in the Visitation of Cumberland
for 1615 (Harleian Society's Publications)." So I guess that would
show which family Sir Thomas Stanley belonged to.
The 1615 Visitation of Cumberland is available on CD from Rod Neep's Archive
CD Books (ref:#8003cum).
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/
Chris