and left, but someone keeps suggesting that if I leave, it means
I'm running from an argument - I was just trying to avoid being
unpleasant, but I don't mind pussy-whipping a few of you overbearing
turkeys - whatsamatter, are Roz and Renia sleeping on the job?
Boy, I turn my back and you let the machos think they invented
the wheel - when everyone knows all they invented was lying
about it.
what's this tacky crap about women being "unfaithful"? takes 2!
Because you pretend men are paragons of virtue? a woman can
only make one bastard at a time, but a man can bugger like a rabbit
and make dozens - all on different women - probably his best friend's
wives, because he's too lazy to look, and not too picky - does this
make him more "faithful"?
Then, I suppose you're speaking from personal experience? - but
what could a woman do, finding herself married to a jerk like you?
Be faithful to herself! Admit the mistake made with you -
shop around for something higher on the evolutionary scale -
or at least, higher on the food chain -
A woman isn't being unfaithful when she dumps a turkey like you -
she's being smart.
The best way for a woman to lose 80 lbs of ugly fat? Divorce!
If there's a child, it's HERS - she carried it, nurtured it, made it grow;
all you did was take what you want, & dump the responsability, as usual -
no DNA testing needed there - an unwed mother isn't unfaithful. She's free.
Of course, there are real families, true love, lasting relationships -
honorable men - but that's another story.
Thanks for reminding me this list is a waste of time that I don't miss.
the lady in question wrote saying she was jewish, not "probably jewish",
not "palestinien" - boy what a presumptious creep you are! you think it's
sufficient to accuse others of racism, to be right about something?
No wonder I kept leaving this list -
NO! I ain't giving you DNA or any other data - because I don't like your
attitude. Like I said - a bunch of you split off at the snake level -
what's this crap about "back when Judaism started there were different
haplogroups - didn't you ever read a bible?
Back when Judaism started, there was Abraham
- that's one haplogroup - there may have been other
haplogroups around but they're no in question here -
what, every time you use a three sylable word, it shorts
out your brain circuits?
Abraham had (Ishmail first, but not the point here)
Isaac, who had Jacob and Esau, & Jacob had
the 12 tribes - remember?
(NB one branch does have descendants of Ishmail and
I'd expect them to match up like any other sons of Abraham)
Any other haplotypes are added by conversion or mixed marriage
These families both think they're jewish since forever,
(although it's possible they're not) so were expecting a relationship
if not in 1770 where it should have been, at least by 3000 BC, where
it still wasn't - however, neither was compared to the Cohanim, to see
where the break was - sheesh, gotta tell you everything!
I'm outta here. no time for this -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: kazars and cohanim
Annie Natalelli-Waloszek wrote:
I wonder if any of you have tried Y-DNA testing; of course I didn't, but
I got two of my cousins to do so - the results were so strange, that I
wonder if someone somewhere isn't jumping the gun, by giving such
"definite" answers -
first of all, two lines that should have been converging, according to
documents - about 1770 - turned out unrelated, yea unto the very night
of times - with 6 mismatches out of 15 loci -
Could you tell us the actual data? This can help a lot.
Ok, so maybe there were some unwed mothers on the line
or perhaps not unwed ... just unfaithful
This is all the more strange, since they're both Jewish lines, so should
be converging at the very least, by about 3000 BC, at Abraham - but
they don't even converge at 6000 with those results...
Not necessarily ... even back when Judaism started up, there
were numerous haplogroups present in the area, so naturally
even the first Jews were diverse.
Then you come up with the Sorenson World Gen Tree and various other
Family Tree DNA cross-reference groups - which have online databases
that you can compare your results with to find long lost relatives - so
first a woman writes to one cousin saying her family (in Israel) has a
15/15 match to his results - which is impossible, since such a match
would make them brothers
No, not at all ... only that ON AVERAGE they would be
expected to be related within 12 generations, that is, 10th
cousins.
- and they'd surely know about each other - but
the other person wouldn't let us see the actual DNA results, nor discuss
the lines - so it looks like some sort of scam - fine, forget it.
Well, yes, forget it, but it's not a scam: it's important to
note that this family is in Israel ... note that they are
likely Jews: and if not, Palestinians, whose DNA matches a
SUBSET of Jews, because they arose from the same stock long
ago..
Then I searched the Sorenson base myself - using the surname, no
results, but using the actual markers - I found a 15/15 match, in the
Ukraine (Sorenson wouldn't tell me the name nor give out any info tho,
so I wonder what's the point of the database) !
Normally Sorenson will tell you the surname of the people
earlier than two or three generations ago. Not always.
This is even more
surprising than a lost brother in Israel, because hey, my Uncle may have
sown some wild oats in the army, that ended up in Israel, who knows -
but nobody in the family has been to Ukraine except me - I certainly
wasn't leaving any Y-Chromosomes behind -
As I quoted above, 15 markers is not very many .... so there
will be matches on very distant cousins. There is even a
5% chance that they would be more distant than 48th cousins!
The logical conclusion, based on a bit of familiarity with the
techniques involved - seems to be that IF Sorenson's isn't cheating, and
IF nobody's scamming or falsifying results - THEN obviously, there are
many more permutation coincidences possible for the given loci being
studies, than anyone has been taking into consideration for such global
and ancient studies -
Not at all ... see the numbers I quote above.
While 15 or 25 marker tests may suffice for paternity cases within a
given town and time, on a world scale, somebody needs to bring Occam's
Razor into play, to hone things finer.
15 marker tests can DISPROVE close relations ... as they did
for your two cousins ... but they (Y chromosome ones, that
is) can't PROVE close relations. One needs more markers for
that. I have currently 118 markers measured for me and that
begins to be enough (note that I am testing everything
available, since I am the DNA custodian for the Clan Donald,
and also serve as sort of "prototype" for the "Somerled
people").
The fact that your near-matches are in Israel and Ukraine
is indeed significant. It would be better to see the allele
values themselves, but it does suggest that whoever the
intruder in the bedroom was, or the person who was adopted,
were Jews. There is no one "Jewish DNA" ... you can't prove
or disprove Jewishness with Y-DNA ... but there certainly
are DNA types that are associated closely with Jewishness;
some of these are also fairly closely tied to other Mideast
groups, others to the general population in Russia and Ukraine.
Doug McDonald
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message