Wednesday, 8 November, 2006
Dear Martin, Will, John, et al.,
I believe you will find the 'standard' descent is the correct one.
This is based on two pieces of evidence: the tenure of Lambourn, co.
Berks., and the inheritance by Mabel Fitz Warin of of Iden and Isham,
Sussex.
1. For the first, an extended look at the transmission of Lambourn
over 5 generations, esp. from Fulk Fitz Warin to his daughter
Mabel and from Mabel via her daughter Sybil de Tregoz to the
Grandison family, see the pedigree below.
2. As to the second, Doug Richardson wrote a while back (in part):
' For evidence that Mabel Fitz Warin was heiress of her mother,
Clarice de Auberville, I find that Mabel and her husband, Sir
John Tregoz, were granted free warren of Iden and I[s]ham,
Sussex 11 June 1271. ' [1]
Doug noted that Iden and Isham were subsequently inherited
by Sibyl de Tregoz.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Douglas Richardson, <C. P. Addition: Clarice de Auberville,
wife of Sir Fulk Fitz Warin>, SGM, 9 Dec 2005, cites Moor,
Knights of Edward I 5 (H.S.P. 84) (1932), also National Archives
documents SC 8/11/550A and SC 8/11/550B.
===================================================
1 Josce de Dinan[1]
----------------------------------------
Death: 1167[2]
Father: Oliver de Dinan (->1172)
of Lambourn, Berks., Corton Dinham, Somerset, Kilmeston, Hants.,
Stanton [Stanton Fitzwarren] and Broad Blunsdon, Wilts. and Hartland
and Buckland, Devon[2]
a supporter of Matilda and then Henry II:
dispossessed of his castle at Ludlow;
received the manor of Lambourn, co. Berks from Henry II in compensation
before 1156 [Meisel[2]; DD 434[3]]
Children: Hawise (-1218)
Sibyl (-1213), m. Hugh de Plugenet
1.1 Hawise de Dinan[1]
----------------------------------------
Death: 1218[2]
co-heiress of her father[2]
the manor of Lambourn, Berks. was (part of) her inheritance, as was an
interest in Hartland and Buckland, Devon[2]
the lands of Westbury were also hers (given to her son Eudo)[4]
'In 1204 Hawise [de Dinan] and her sister and co-heiress, Sibil de Dinan,
offered the fine of a horse for having recognition of their rights in the
manors of Corton Dinham (Somerset), Hartland (Devonshire) and
Buckland (Devonshire). Hawise and Sibil won their suit in the
following year, for when Oliver de Dinan (apparently their cousin)
could not prove any right of possession concerning these manors,
he withdrew his claim.' [Meisel, p. 94][2]
gift of son Fulk fitz Warin of land for his foundation at Alberbury
ca. 1220-1230 made ' pro anime mee & .... Hawise matris mee ...'
(Nichols III/1, p. 332 charter 2)[5]
Spouse: Fulk fitz Warin, of Whittington, co. Salop
Death: aft 6 Nov 1194[1],[6]
Father: Fulk fitz Warin (-ca1171)
Mother: Eva
Marr: bef 1178[2]
Children: Sir Fulk (<1178->1250)
Philip
William (->1228)
John
Richard
Alan
Eudo
Eugenia
Eve
1.1.1a Sir Fulk FitzWarin*
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 8 Oct 1250[1],[7],[8]
Birth: bef 1178[2]
knight, of Lambourn, co. Berks., Whittington, co. Salop. and Alveston,
co. Gloucester
Outlawed, then pardoned 15 Nov 1203 (with restoration of castle of
Whittington 17 Oct 1204) [1]
held lands in Devon (evidently at Hartland and Buckland) by service
of a knight's fee, 1211-12 (Meisel, p. 94)[2]
in rebellion against King John following Magna Carta and the invasion
of Prince Louis: excommunicated, and the manor of Alveston, co. Glocs.
seized, June 1216 (subsequently restored) [Meisel, p. 93][2]
' Fulk fitz Warren ', had charter for a fair at Lambourn, co. Berks.
granted between 21 and 24 Oct 1219, by King Henry III to Fulk fitz
Warren. ' To be held at the manor.' Mandate to the sheriff of
Berkshire to cause him to have it (C 60/9 m. 1). Nova Oblata: he
owed one palfrey (PR, 3 Hen III, pp. xx, 115, 162; PR, 4 Hen III,
p. 187). Charter for a Fair on vfm Matthew (21 Sept) granted by
King Henry III unto Fulk fitz Warren on 3 Sept 1227 (CChR, 1226–57,
p. 58). Order to sheriff of Berkshire regarding the fair, 1 Sept
1227 (RLC, ii, p. 199).[10]
' Fulk fitz Warin ', had charter for a market and fair granted
23 Nov 1219, by King Henry III to Fulk fitz Warin (C 60/12 m. 9).[10]
' Fulco filius Warini ', made a grant of land in Alberbury, co. Salop.
in founding a Benedictine priory, ca 1220-1230,
'... pro anime mee, & Matilde uxoris mee, & Fulconis patris mee, &
Hawise matris mee... de assensu Fulconis filii & heredis mei,...
testibus: Will'o filio Warini, Henrico de Traci, Aldulpho de Braci,.
...Hugone de Hoe,..' (Nichols III/1, pp. 332 charter 2)[5] [dated
by Meisel as '1221-26' - p. 91[2]]
'In 1230 Fulk III and Sibil de Dinan's son, Alan de Plugenay, were
sued for
one carucate in Kilmeston [co. Hants.], but they were excused from
appearing in court because they were overseas in the king's service.'
(Meisel, p. 94)[2]
fined 600 mks. in 1233 for custody of the lands and heirs of William
Pantulf, his son-in-law (Meisel, p. 46)[2]
held Tadlow, co. Cambs. of Roger de Torpel (Meisel, p. 90)[2]
m. 2ndly Clarice d'Auberville, by whom he had a daughter Mabel
(and possibly, a son Fulk, known as Fulk 'the younger' ) [2]
d. after 8 October 1250:
earliest date of fine by "FULCO FIL' WARINI & CLARIC' ux' ejus "
[previous dated entry 8 October; next is 22 October] - Chris Phillips,
citing Excerpta e Rotulis Finium 1216-1272, vol. 2: 1246-1272,
p. 89 - 34 Henry III (1250), m. 2[8]
he m. 1stly (as 2nd husband) Maud le Vavasour,
2ndly Clarice d'Auberville [cf. CP Vol V, p. 495 note (c) [1]]
~ usually called 'Fulk III'[2]
Spouse: Maud le Vavasour
Death: bef 1227[2]
Father: Robert le Vavasour (-<1228)
Mother: NN de Birkin
Marr: bef 1 Oct 1207[1],[6],[11]
Children: Sir Fulk (-1264)
Hawise
Eve
1.1.1b Sir Fulk FitzWarin* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Clarice d'Auberville [2nd wife]
Death: aft 8 Oct 1250[8]
Father: Robert d'Auberville (-<1230)
Mother: Clarice
Children: Mabel (-<1297)
Fulk (->1266)
1.1.1b.1a Mabel FitzWarin*
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 24 May 1297[1],[12]
had part of the lordship of Lambourn Hundred, co. Berks as her
maritagium :
‘ Fulk Fitz Warin acknowledges that he gave, conceded and
by his charter confirmed to Mabil, his daughter, for homage
and her service, his entire manor of Lambourn with all
appurtenances, to have and hold for herself and the heirs
of her body of Fulk and his heirs freely, quietly, etc.,
saving religious service, as is described in his charter.’
Meisel, p. 96 citing records of King's Bench for 1249[2]
___________________________
' For evidence that Mabel Fitz Warin was heiress of her mother, Clarice
de Auberville, I find that Mabel and her husband, Sir John Tregoz, were
granted free warren of Iden and I[s]ham, Sussex 11 June 1271. '
[Douglas Richardson, cites Moor, Knights of Edward I 5 (H.S.P. 84)
(1932)]
probably m. 1stly, William de Crevequer in 1249;
m. 2ndly John de Tregoz (say 1255-1260 ?)[7]
she held the manor of Weston, co. Beds. in dower at her death
(IPM 24 May 1297, cited by Rosie Bevan)[12]
Spouse: William de Crevequer [1st husband]
Death: bef 6 Apr 1263, d.v.p., d.s.p.[1],[12]
Father: Hamo de Crevequer (-1263)
Mother: Maud d'Avranches
Marr: ? 1249[2]
1.1.1b.1b Mabel FitzWarin* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: John de Tregoz, of Ewyas Harold and Eaton Tregoz, co. Hereford
Death: 21 Aug 1300[1]
Father: Robert de Tregoz (-<1268)
Mother: Juliana de Cantelou (->1285)
Children: Clarice (-<1300)
Sybil (1270-1334)
1.1.1b.1b.1 Clarice de Tregoz
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 28 Aug 1300, d.v.p.[1]
eldest daughter and coheir (in her issue) of her father[1]
her son John inherited half of the barony of Ewyas Harold, co. Hereford
Spouse: Sir Roger la Warre
Death: 20 Jun 1320[1]
Father: Sir John la Warre (-<1279)
Mother: Olympia de Folkington
Marr: bef Oct 1276[1]
Children: John (<1276-1347)
Clarice (->1321) [conjectured wife of Adam de Everingham]
Roger
NN, a daughter
1.1.1b.1b.2 Sybil de Tregoz
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1270, Ewyas, co. Hereford[13]
Death: 12 Oct 1334[13]
Burial: Dore Abbey
2nd daughter and coheiress.
Lands of Sir John Tregoz ordered to be divided between his heirs,
26 Nov 1300[1] [her portion evidently included Lambourn, co. Berks
or a moiety thereof][2]
she inherited half of the barony of Ewyas Harold, co. Hereford[14]
probably 2nd wife of William de Grandison[15]
Spouse: Sir William de Grandison
Birth: Lake Neufchatel, Suisse[13]
Death: 27 Jun 1335[13]
Father: Pierre de Grandison (~1190-1263)
Mother: Agnes de Neuchatel
Marr: abt 1285
Children: Piers
John (1292-1369)
Thomas (>1291-)
William
Sir Otho
Matilda
Agnes
Mabel
Katherine (~1304-1349)
1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint, 1982
(Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland
Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
2. Janet Meisel, "Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf
and Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272," Lincoln: University of
Nebraska Press.
3. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul 2,
2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville), full title: Domesday
Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons, Occurring in English
Documents 1066-1166: Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum.
4. MichaelAnne Guido, "Halstead and the Old Charters," 8 November
2004, email ClaudiusI0, cites Genealogical Proofs of the
House of Maudit, A succinct Genealogy of he House of Maudit, by
Robert Halstead, London, 1685.
5. John Nichols, F.S.A., "The History and Antiquities of the County
of Leicester," London: Printed By and For John Nichols, 1795,
Vol. I, Appendix XIII: Chartulary of the Honour of Segrave, p.
119, charters of Thomas de Birkin, William de Flamborough and
Nicholas de Anesty, of lands in Pickwell and Leesthorpe, co.
Leics. to Stephen de Segrave, Vol. II, Pt. II (Gartre Hundred),
p. 488 re: grant of 'Boggeden' and Haverburgh to William de
Cantelou, 1237;, pp. 531 et seq., Burton Overy (family of Hugh
de Meinill), p. 768 et seq., manors of Pickwell and Leesthorpe
(Camville and Curzon), Vol. III, Pt. I (East Gascote Hundred) - 1800;
p. 62 et seq., Barrow;, pp. 301 et seq., Launde priory;, pp. 332
et seq., Whadborough (charters of Fulk Fitz Warin and family),
pp. 353 et seq., Prestwould; pp. 363 et seq., Burton on the Wolds.
6. John Ross Delafield, "Delafield : the family history," privately
published:, 1945, cites extract re: FitzWarin from Rev. R. W.
Eyton, Antiquities of Shropshire, .pdf image files provided by
Genealogy.com
http://www.genealogy.com.
7. John P. Ravilious, "CP Correction: Fulk 'III' FitzWarin and His
Descendants," May 3, 2003,
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com, cites
Close Rolls of the Reign of Henry III (1227-1272), Vol. II p.
210, as cited in the Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs:, and the
records of King’s Bench from 1249, as cited by Janet Meisel,
Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf and Fitz
Warin Families, 1066-1272, p. 96.
8. Chris Phillips, "Re: CP Correction: Fulk 'III' FitzWarin and His
Descendants," May 9, 2003, paper copy: library of John Ravilious,
cites Curia Regis Rolls, vol. 16, p. 165 - Trin. Term 23 Hen III
(1239) m. 14, re: Agnes filia Warini;, Excerpta e Rotulis
Finium 2:89 (34 Hen III m. 2), re: Clarice, wife of Fulk Fitz
Warin;, CCR 1251-53 p. 208 (36 Hen III m. 20d), re: Fulk fitz
Warin 'junior' vs. John le Vavasour, Chris Phillips,
cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk.
9. "Access to Archives,"
http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/10. "Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516,"
http://www.histparl.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/11. "Antiquities of Shropshire," The Rev. R. W. Eyton, London:
John Russell Smith, 1855, Vol. 5 - p. 242 (Ludlow), pp. 132
(Banaster) and 133-142 (Barony of Hastings), Vol. 6 - pp.
350-359 (Meole Brace and de Bracy).
12. Rosie Bevan, "Re: Clarice, wife of Sir Adam de Everingham (Clarice
la Warre ?)," Feb 19, 2003, email,
therav3@aol.com (paper copy:
library of John Ravilious, cites MABEL, LATE THE WIFE OF JOHN
TREGOZ - Writ 24 May, 25 Edw I, [BEDFORD] Inq Wednesday after
St Barnabas, 25 Edw I, also CIPM v.7 no.676, the IPM of William
de Grandison (1335).
13. "Ancestors of Edmund de Mortimer," David Utzinger
UTZ@aol.com, 4 August 2000.
14. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and
Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
15. Douglas Richardson, "Hastings-Morley," June 28, 2001,
royalancestry@email.msn.com (direct email).