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The Highlander

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av The Highlander » 24 okt 2006 15:14:58

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:55:26 -0500, "Gurriato"
<patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote:

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ajknj2lenhc28nnf0d0ol8ra7qr47f0hlf@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 06:04:16 -0700, "ElGaucho" <gamo@vcn.bc.ca> wrote:


"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message

Uell, uell, uell! Tha Gàidhlig agad-sa! Agus a'fuirich ann an B.C.!

Ca bheil thu - ann an Bhancuibhear no ait' eile?

Vancouver, mo charaid. And don't tax me with Gaelic, I learned a bit
playing
soccer with fellows from the Isles, many moons ago.

"What a gowk!" is not the friendliest thing you could say about me.
You must be a big powerful fellow, full of piss and vinegar, to say
that to a Highlander who lives so close to you...

I know. Just wanted to know if it still carried the same punch :-)
Oscar

I don't care to be characterized as 'it' when querying my ability to
take out a Latino armed with a mere shiv.

Did you know this limerick?

An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
Said sex is one thing I do know
Women are fine
And sheep are divine
But llamas are numero uno!

GURRIATO

No, but here's one in return:


In Extremadura, the men
Sleep at night with their sheep in the pen
Except that the sheep
Never get any sleep
As the men hiss, "Let's do that again!"


The Highlander

Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns
an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.
The views expressed in this post are
not necessarily those of The Highlander.

Earle Horton

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Earle Horton » 24 okt 2006 18:11:34

"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:X7idnUjtbqFjPaDYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@netnitco.net...
"Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message
news:453d7016$0$19740$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...

Uruguay is very far from the Andes, and has very few resident llamas.

There are llamas, alpacas, vicuñas, guanacos and all kinds of related
beasts. I can't tell the difference, but el Gauchito likes them all. They
all have beautiful tender eyes and curly eyelashes. They kick and they
spit on you, like women do. Perhaps this is the reason for Gauchito's
love of them. He is a masochist.

This love that Uruguayans are supposed to feel for llamas would
be of the theoretical kind, much like the love that Gurriato (which
means cob knobbler in Spanish by the way) would feel for German
goose maidens.

You're insulting me. A gurriato is a sparrow. What the fillern is a cob
knobbler?


http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/s/ ... sary1.html

To cob is to beat or strike, generally on the back side. A knobbler is a
male deer in its second year, so named for its immature, knob like antlers.
These are terms taken from the Scots language, a language of Western
Germanic origin spoken in lowland Scotland, and related to English. I meant
it as a compliment.

In Indianajuato a cob knobbler is a woman (or man, whatever submerges
your submarine) who gives awful blow jobs. The name originates from
Cobzeus, the Norwegian goddess of corn shucking, who once treated
Hermes' penis as a cob of corn. I think YOU are a cob knobbler

These are neologisms invented in the early nineties by a young lady familiar

with the Seattle alternative rock scene, while being interviewed by Rolling
Stone. In order to spice up the interview, she invented some street slang,
including the now common "cob knobbler", which Rolling Stone printed as
gospel. Rolling Stone was extremely embarassed by this journalistic lapse,
but the Seattle Times had a field day with it.

If you can't find something on the Internet, please don't make up facts.

Saludos,

Earle





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

ElGaucho

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av ElGaucho » 24 okt 2006 18:48:50

"Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message
news:453d7016$0$19740$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:q9adnU1gkoWwp6DYnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@netnitco.net...
...

Did you know this limerick?

An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
Said sex is one thing I do know
Women are fine
And sheep are divine
But llamas are numero uno!

Te equivocas técnicamente
You are technically wrong here

There once was a doctor, all wrong
to try his bad poems and songs
and showed not a wit
my God, what a twit!
and that's what we knew all along!

And llamas we have in Uruguay; yes, about 3 - 4, in the Zoo.

ElGaucho

Tony Hoskins

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 24 okt 2006 19:45:22

"I don't know what is meant by "a stronger cohort" - are you looking for
more
lines to Rurikid princes or for lines to more famous ones?"

More lines. I was curious to discover if there might be another person,
roughly contemporary with Queen Kunigunda, who brought more Rurikid
lines to descendants in the West than does she. The Queen genealogically
embodies, it seems to me, surprisingly large cohort of Rurikid lines.

"According to Nicolas de Baumgarten [GTnTalogies et mariages
occidentaux des
Rurikides du Xe au XIIIe siFcle, _Orientalia Christiana_ 9/1 (1927),
table
8], his father Svjatoslav (exiled in 1129) was the sixth son of Vseslav
I of
Polotsk, grand prince of Kiev 1068-1069 (died 14 April 1101), by an
unknown
wife. Vseslav I was son of Briacheslav of Polotsk (died 1044), son of
Isjaslav (died 1001), son of St Vladimir the Great by his wife
Rognieda."

This seems to be the accepted lineage, although the dotted line one
observes for this line in ES led me to ask if other views existed as to
this identification, if there were any particular reasons to doubt this
connection.

Many thanks, Peter.

Peter Stewart



Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Earle Horton

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Earle Horton » 24 okt 2006 20:07:45

"Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message
news:453e3c5c$0$19738$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
....
These are neologisms invented in the early nineties by a young lady
familiar with the Seattle alternative rock scene, while being
interviewed by Rolling Stone. In order to spice up the interview,
she invented some street slang, including the now common "cob
knobbler", which Rolling Stone printed as gospel. Rolling Stone
was extremely embarassed by this journalistic lapse, but the Seattle
Times had a field day with it.

This was the New York Times that got fooled. ¡Perdóname las molestias!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge_speak

Saludos,

Earle




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John Brandon

Re: Baptismal rec. of Boston schoolmaster Philemon Pormort/

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 okt 2006 20:29:28

Did Philemon Pormott have two daughters named Elizabeth (one married to
Nathaniel Adams and the other to Samuel Norden)?

http://books.google.com/books?vid=08Okd ... y+philberd

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... dq=pormott


ElGaucho

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av ElGaucho » 24 okt 2006 21:36:39

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message

An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
Said sex is one thing I do know
Women are fine
And sheep are divine
But llamas are numero uno!

GURRIATO

No, but here's one in return:

In Extremadura, the men
Sleep at night with their sheep in the pen
Except that the sheep
Never get any sleep
As the men hiss, "Let's do that again!"

The Highlander

This is a Scot secret and pride
for tending the sheep has two sides:
they give you the wool,
you give'em your tool,
and later you take'em as brides

ElGaucho

William Black

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av William Black » 24 okt 2006 22:10:16

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:71urj2ddq8glag8hl5si62ueka15osh0e3@4ax.com...

The Duke of Cumberland, the English general, who was a perceptive man,
had noted this weak point and ordered each English soldier not to
defend himself against a Highlander attacking him, but to stab the
Highlander attacking his comrade to his right in the exposed area with
the newly issued bayonet, being used by British troops for the first
time, while, hopefully, his comrade was doing the same for him by
stabbing his attacker.

The bayonet was first issued to English soldiers in 1672 and the socket
bayonet from about 1700.

Culloden was in 1746.

Cumberland's great innovation was not the introduction of the bayonet but
the introduction of a form of bayonet fighting that owed nothing to pike
drill.

It has to be acknowledged that the English soldiers showed a lot of
courage in obeying this order, as in general they were terrified of
the Highlanders and the dreadful wounds they inflicted on their
enemies. It was this, in part, that stopped the Highland charge,
although some wiped out the first row of Redcoats, broke through the
second row and even attacked the third row before being bayonetted.

That must have been on a very narrow front

The British army only lost 52 dead.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Gjest

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2006 00:00:03

Dear Tony,
There seem to be a few Contenders for carrying Russian blood
to more descendants outside Russia / Ukraine than Kunigunde Rostislawna. These
include Predaslawa , daughter of Grand Duke Sviatopolk of Kief and wife of
Almus, Duke of Croatia and prince of Hungary, descendants include Elizabeth, 1st
wife of Mieszko III, Duke of Great Poland, whose 2nd wife was Eugenia , a
daughter of Izyaslav II , Grand Duke of Kief and every Hungarian King from Bela
II to at least the end of the Arpad dynasty. Dobronega, daughter of Vladimir I
of Kief married Casimir I , Duke of Poland and was ancestor to among others
Boleslaw III Wrymouth whose 1st wife Zbyslawa, natural daughter of Grand Duke
Sviatopolk of Kief, whose sister married Prince Almus (above) also, Ingeborg,
daughter of Mstislav I, Grand Duke of Kief married Saint Knut, King of the
Danish sub-kingdom of Wenden and through their son Wladimir I, King of Denmark
who married Sophie of Minsk , They are ancestral to the Danish Kings thereafter.
(see Genealogics.org where Leo gives Elizabeth as a daughter of King Bela II
instead of his father)
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Tony Hoskins

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna,Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 25 okt 2006 00:44:49

What interests me is determining which one person individually is most
likely to bring the most Rurikid lines to the most people living in
Western Europe and America today.

Anne of Kiev, Queen of France of course brings the most people *one*
Rurikid line (some of us count Anne an ancestress many thousands of
times). But, the trend is that the later the "gateway", the greater the
number of potential lines to Rurik there might be, but (being closer to
the present in time) the fewer living decendants there would likely
be.

The earlier the "Rurkid Gateway", the fewer descents that person has
from Rurik, but the more living descendants of that RG there are. The
later the RG, the potential for multiple Rurikid descents fo the RG are
greater, but that RG has fewer descendants. This is to my observation
exponetial, i.e.:

I would my estimate my descents from early "Rurikid Gateway" Anne of
Kiev, Queen of France (died 1076) - descended once from the Rurikids -
to number in the 10s of thousands. I ahre descent from her surely with
millions of people living today.

On the other hand, 200 years down th road I descend twice from
Kunigunda of Slavonia, Queen of Bohemia (died 1285) - with a large
though as yet uncounted number of Rurikid lines in her ancestry - and
would estimate a vastly smaller group of people would descend from her.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Gjest

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2006 01:05:02

In a message dated 10/24/06 2:55:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Jwc1870@aol.com
writes:

<< Saint Knut, King of the
Danish sub-kingdom of Wenden and through their son Wladimir I, King of
Denmark
who married Sophie of Minsk , They are ancestral to the Danish Kings
thereafter.
(see Genealogics.org where Leo gives Elizabeth as a daughter of King Bela
II
instead of his father) >>

But also through Dorothea (1511-1571) of Saxe-Lauenburg, wife of Christian
III, King of Denmark, who herself was a descendent through the Dukes of
Pomerania.

Will Johnson

Gurriato

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Gurriato » 25 okt 2006 01:45:29

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:71urj2ddq8glag8hl5si62ueka15osh0e3@4ax.com...


I also wanted to mention that Spain is the only country I have ever
visited which has statues (outside the Plaza de Toros) to Sir
Alexander Fleming, the Scottish discoverer of penicillin, which has
saved the lives of many toreadors who were gored by bulls. I can't
remember which city it was - Ronda? - where there was also a Calle
Doctor Fleming - Doctor Fleming Street. It's nice that someone
remembers him for one of medicine's most important discoveries.
Madrid Costa Fleming.

Spanish putas are very appreciative of Fleming's discoveries.

Costa Fleming is the Red Light District of Madrid. There is an old famous
movie about it, "Madrid Costa Fleming". The ladies of the night erected a
statue of your contryman in the street in gratitude to the impact of
penicilline on the morbus gallicus, the clap and other professional hazards.

By the way, what were you doing visiting Costa Fleming, you rascal?

DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR

Gjest

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2006 02:01:02

In a message dated 10/23/06 6:34:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pedricks@ozemail.com.au writes:

<< Secondly, there were 16th Century Giffards descending from William Giffard,
born about 1482 at Itchell, Hampshire, who married Eleanor Paulet, daughter
of John Paulet of Basing, Hampshire. >>


What is the source stating that Eleanor (Paulet) Giffard was a daughter of
John Paulet of Basing?
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2006 02:05:03

In a message dated 10/23/06 6:34:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pedricks@ozemail.com.au writes:

<< Secondly, there were 16th Century Giffards descending from William Giffard,
born about 1482 at Itchell, Hampshire, who married Eleanor Paulet, daughter
of John Paulet of Basing, Hampshire. >>

P.S. on this stated birthdate, there is an ascent stated as
Sir William Kingsmill son of
John Kingsmill son of
Joan Gifford dau of
Sir John Gifford son of
Sir William Giffard

This Sir William Kingsmill is given an exact birthyear of 1526 on Leo's great
website

Given all that, a birthyear of 1482 is too late by at least 20 years,
probably much more.

Will Johnson

Adam Whyte-Settlar

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Adam Whyte-Settlar » 25 okt 2006 02:57:16

"ElGaucho" <gamo@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:ehl5gj$nnk$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca...
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:453de3b1@quokka.wn.com.au...

"ElGaucho" <gamo@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:ehjgq5$9nk$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca...

Weird as it sounds, I am sort of sorry I didn't continue that tradition
with my sons here in Canada. One doesn't turn into a killer by knowing
certain things, but there's a strange confidence one gains as a man,
that goes on throughout life. They had to content themselves with
karate, tae kwan do....and hockey.

In Hampshire we kids got issued running shoes.

Oh, they were invented then?? :-)
Neccesity being the mother.

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 25 okt 2006 03:25:03

I used Genealogics. Leo quoted "The Pouletts of Hinton St. George" by
Colin G. Winn as the source.
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------

From: WJhonson@aol.com
Date: 10/25/06 09:29:37
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Giffards of Yester

In a message dated 10/23/06 6:34:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pedricks@ozemail.com.au writes:

<< Secondly, there were 16th Century Giffards descending from William
Giffard,
born about 1482 at Itchell, Hampshire, who married Eleanor Paulet,
daughter
of John Paulet of Basing, Hampshire. >>


What is the source stating that Eleanor (Paulet) Giffard was a daughter of
John Paulet of Basing?
Thanks
Will Johnson

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gjest

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2006 05:16:02

Thanks Marilyn. I think the problem in my database was possibly the
placement of Joan (Gifford) Kingsmill wife of Sir John Kingsmill his will probate 20
May 1509, as a daughter to Sir John Gifford by Joan Bruges (Brydges).

Chronologically difficult. Checking a few sources, mostly silent on the
issue, and noting my own poor source of "Pedigree Resource File", I've temporarily
moved her *up the chain* to be instead a daughter of Sir John Giffard, her
previous great-grandfather (!!)

That's what I get for using unsourced trees as a "guide"

Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 25 okt 2006 06:13:16

Dear James,

I have copied Elisabeth as daughter of Bela II from ES Schwennicke Volume II
Tafel 154.

Here is shown how Almos (died 1129) had three children Bela II (born 1109),
Hedwig (no year of birth) and Adelheid (born 1105/1107).

Bela II married 28 April 1127 and Elisabeth is shown as probably born in
1128. she then married 1136/1140 which is pretty young.

Do you have sources that makes Elisabeth a daughter of Almos? If she is,
then she would be older when she started having children as early as 1141.
Thirteen seems dreadfully young to me.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


----- Original Message -----
From: <Jwc1870@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com>
Cc: <Jwc1870@AOL..com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna,Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway tothe
West


Dear Tony,
There seem to be a few Contenders for carrying Russian
blood
to more descendants outside Russia / Ukraine than Kunigunde Rostislawna.
These
include Predaslawa , daughter of Grand Duke Sviatopolk of Kief and wife of
Almus, Duke of Croatia and prince of Hungary, descendants include
Elizabeth, 1st
wife of Mieszko III, Duke of Great Poland, whose 2nd wife was Eugenia , a
daughter of Izyaslav II , Grand Duke of Kief and every Hungarian King
from Bela
II to at least the end of the Arpad dynasty. Dobronega, daughter of
Vladimir I
of Kief married Casimir I , Duke of Poland and was ancestor to among
others
Boleslaw III Wrymouth whose 1st wife Zbyslawa, natural daughter of Grand
Duke
Sviatopolk of Kief, whose sister married Prince Almus (above) also,
Ingeborg,
daughter of Mstislav I, Grand Duke of Kief married Saint Knut, King of the
Danish sub-kingdom of Wenden and through their son Wladimir I, King of
Denmark
who married Sophie of Minsk , They are ancestral to the Danish Kings
thereafter.
(see Genealogics.org where Leo gives Elizabeth as a daughter of King Bela
II
instead of his father)
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter Stewart

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna,Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 25 okt 2006 06:48:52

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.11.1161753205.17533.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Dear James,

I have copied Elisabeth as daughter of Bela II from ES Schwennicke Volume
II Tafel 154.

Here is shown how Almos (died 1129) had three children Bela II (born
1109), Hedwig (no year of birth) and Adelheid (born 1105/1107).

Bela II married 28 April 1127 and Elisabeth is shown as probably born in
1128. she then married 1136/1140 which is pretty young.

Do you have sources that makes Elisabeth a daughter of Almos? If she is,
then she would be older when she started having children as early as 1141.
Thirteen seems dreadfully young to me.

It would be, but in this case there is no evidence for it - the eldest child
of Mieszko III of Poland and Elizabeth of Hungary was Odon, duke of Poznan,
born in the 1140s, first occurring in 1149, but not as early as 1141. They
has a younger son named Stefan whose birth year is also unknown, and
apparently two (perhaps three) daughters who were all evidently born by 1155
when Elizabeth was dead and Mieszko III remarried.

Peter Stewart

The Highlander

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av The Highlander » 25 okt 2006 16:14:26

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:45:29 -0500, "Gurriato"
<patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote:

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:71urj2ddq8glag8hl5si62ueka15osh0e3@4ax.com...


I also wanted to mention that Spain is the only country I have ever
visited which has statues (outside the Plaza de Toros) to Sir
Alexander Fleming, the Scottish discoverer of penicillin, which has
saved the lives of many toreadors who were gored by bulls. I can't
remember which city it was - Ronda? - where there was also a Calle
Doctor Fleming - Doctor Fleming Street. It's nice that someone
remembers him for one of medicine's most important discoveries.
Madrid Costa Fleming.

Spanish putas are very appreciative of Fleming's discoveries.

Costa Fleming is the Red Light District of Madrid. There is an old famous
movie about it, "Madrid Costa Fleming". The ladies of the night erected a
statue of your contryman in the street in gratitude to the impact of
penicilline on the morbus gallicus, the clap and other professional hazards.

By the way, what were you doing visiting Costa Fleming, you rascal?

DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR

Checking out the putas. We had better looking ones in our regimental

brothel... Not much better, but...

The Highlander

Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns
an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.
The views expressed in this post are
not necessarily those of The Highlander.

The Highlander

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av The Highlander » 25 okt 2006 16:19:13

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:11:34 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote:

"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:X7idnUjtbqFjPaDYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@netnitco.net...

"Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message
news:453d7016$0$19740$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...

Uruguay is very far from the Andes, and has very few resident llamas.

There are llamas, alpacas, vicuñas, guanacos and all kinds of related
beasts. I can't tell the difference, but el Gauchito likes them all. They
all have beautiful tender eyes and curly eyelashes. They kick and they
spit on you, like women do. Perhaps this is the reason for Gauchito's
love of them. He is a masochist.

This love that Uruguayans are supposed to feel for llamas would
be of the theoretical kind, much like the love that Gurriato (which
means cob knobbler in Spanish by the way) would feel for German
goose maidens.

You're insulting me. A gurriato is a sparrow. What the fillern is a cob
knobbler?


http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/s/ ... sary1.html

To cob is to beat or strike, generally on the back side. A knobbler is a
male deer in its second year, so named for its immature, knob like antlers.
These are terms taken from the Scots language, a language of Western
Germanic origin spoken in lowland Scotland, and related to English. I meant
it as a compliment.


In Indianajuato a cob knobbler is a woman (or man, whatever submerges
your submarine) who gives awful blow jobs. The name originates from
Cobzeus, the Norwegian goddess of corn shucking, who once treated
Hermes' penis as a cob of corn. I think YOU are a cob knobbler

In New York they're called nobbers.
These are neologisms invented in the early nineties by a young lady familiar
with the Seattle alternative rock scene, while being interviewed by Rolling
Stone. In order to spice up the interview, she invented some street slang,
including the now common "cob knobbler", which Rolling Stone printed as
gospel. Rolling Stone was extremely embarassed by this journalistic lapse,
but the Seattle Times had a field day with it.

If you can't find something on the Internet, please don't make up facts.

Saludos,

Earle


The Highlander

Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns
an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.
The views expressed in this post are
not necessarily those of The Highlander.

ElGaucho

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av ElGaucho » 25 okt 2006 17:39:04

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message

"The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message

An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
Said sex is one thing I do know
Women are fine
And sheep are divine
But llamas are numero uno!

GURRIATO

No, but here's one in return:

In Extremadura, the men
Sleep at night with their sheep in the pen
Except that the sheep
Never get any sleep
As the men hiss, "Let's do that again!"

The Highlander

This is a Scot secret and pride
for tending the sheep has two sides:
they give you the wool,
you give'em your tool,
and later you take'em as brides

ElGaucho

You seem remarkably uninformed about Scotland.

Never been there in my life. But I know Scots remarkably well, let me
assure you. Worked with them, played with them, partied with them. They
are Scotland also, and many of them are funny, full of wit.

But look at you, now. I send you a limerick, a bit in fun, a bit of a
challange in verses, a challange of the mind. And how do ye answer, amigo?
You tell me I'm not informed 'bout Scotland.

I give up.
Oscar

Mad Dog anti-re-cycling

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Mad Dog anti-re-cycling » 25 okt 2006 19:13:39

ElGaucho wrote:
|| "Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message
|| news:453d7016$0$19740$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
||| "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message
||| news:q9adnU1gkoWwp6DYnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@netnitco.net...
||| ...
||||
|||| Did you know this limerick?
||||
|||| An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
|||| Said sex is one thing I do know
|||| Women are fine
|||| And sheep are divine
|||| But llamas are numero uno!
||||
||| Te equivocas técnicamente
||| You are technically wrong here
||
|| There once was a doctor, all wrong
|| to try his bad poems and songs
|| and showed not a wit
|| my God, what a twit!
|| and that's what we knew all along!
||
|| And llamas we have in Uruguay; yes, about 3 - 4, in the Zoo.
||
|| ElGaucho

Anway the better place to live in your locality is Rio Grande du sol, they
also have gaucho's

--
"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD

Mad Dog anti-re-cycling

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Mad Dog anti-re-cycling » 25 okt 2006 19:16:38

ElGaucho wrote:
|| "The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message
||
|||| An Uruguayan Gaucho named Bruno
|||| Said sex is one thing I do know
|||| Women are fine
|||| And sheep are divine
|||| But llamas are numero uno!
||||
|||| GURRIATO
||
||| No, but here's one in return:
||
||| In Extremadura, the men
||| Sleep at night with their sheep in the pen
||| Except that the sheep
||| Never get any sleep
||| As the men hiss, "Let's do that again!"
||
||| The Highlander
||
|| This is a Scot secret and pride
|| for tending the sheep has two sides:
|| they give you the wool,
|| you give'em your tool,
|| and later you take'em as brides
||
|| ElGaucho

Oh cut the crap, who invented the Tango and Milonga, I shall tell you the
Italians, it was in existence already in Italy and was taken to the
Argentine by the Italian immigrants where it caught on in La Boca then it
moved across the river to Montevideo.

--
"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD

Douglas Richardson

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 25 okt 2006 20:20:20

For those who wish to examine the original published list of kinsfolk
of Blanche of Navarre, Countess of Champagne, they may do so at the
following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... nsanguinea

The list of kinsfolk commences at the bottom of the page.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

John P. Ravilious

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 26 okt 2006 00:37:04

Wednesday, 25 October, 2006


Dear Leo (and Will, Douglas, Peter, et al.),

That Joscelin de Louvain (aka de Percy) was a son of
Godfrey 'the Bearded', duke of Lower Lorraine (d. 25 Jan
1139) is a fact. ES I Band I.2 Tafel 236 identifies him as
an illegitimate son, and half-brother of Adeliza de Louvain,
2nd wife of Henry I of England.

Aside from this identification, there is documentary
evidence. There is the following entry in the Pipe Rolls,
in which ' Joscelin brother of the Queen' was named as a party
to a plea with the Earl of Warwick against Sibyl de Valoignes
[stepmother of his wife], 1177/78:

' Comes de Warewic et Joscelinus frater Regine reddt.
comp. de .cc. m. pro recto versus Sibillam de Valuign'.
Et de .c. m. quas idem Goscelinus cognovit se accrevisse
pro eodem recto. In thesauro .l. m. per manum Goscelini.
Et .xxx. m. per manum comitis de Warewich' .
Et debent .c. et .xlvj. l. et .xiij. s. et .iiij. d. ' [1]

I continue showing him as an illegitimate son; if there is
evidence to the contrary, that would be of great interest.

Cheers,

John



NOTES

[1] Pipe Roll 24 Hen. II, XXVII:71.


Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dear Will,

On my website I have added a remark at the bottom of Josceline's page : His
parentage is questionable, in some genealogies his name is not mentioned.
However, in Burke's Peerage and some continental genealogies he appears as
the half-brother of Queen Adeliza.

This does not give any certainty, was he illegitimate? Was he a cousin, was
he related at all? Did he perhaps just come from Lorraine?
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois,
Baudemont,Aragon, T...


Although BP as cited by Leo, also shows Josceline of Lorraine as a
half-brother of Queen Adeliza wife of Henry I

Will Johnson

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gjest

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 00:37:35

Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe, Table 89

says married 1136 ?
and gives them children of
Otto, Duke of Posnan d 1194 (Table 132) mar aft 1184 Wyszeslawa of Galicia
Elizabeth of Poland d 1209 (Table 86) mar Sobeslav II, Duke of Bohemia (d1180)
Wierchoslawa of Poland d 1223 (Table 132) mar Frederick, Duke of Lorraine
(d1207)


Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Royal Ancestry of Robert Cole (ca. 1626-1662) of Heston,

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 01:06:58

In a message dated 10/25/06 11:00:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ToddWhitesides@aol.com writes:

<< The royal ancestry for these individuals through their mother and
grandmother Margaret Torbock can be followed in Mr. Douglas Richardson's
Plantagenet
Ancestry (2004), pp. 490-491. >>

http://users.erols.com/rlward1/ahnentafel.html "Ahnentafel of Robert Leigh
Ward" July 2006
http://cybrary.uwinnipeg.ca/people/dobs ... er_Mainwar
ing.html

The 16 great-great-grandparents of Margaret Torbock are
Richard Torbock and Elizabeth Daniers
Sir John Stanley and Elizabeth Weever
Robert Moore and Elizabeth Darby
William Ireland and Eleanor Molyneux
Sir Peter Gerard and Margaret Stanley
Edmund Trafford and Margaret Savage
Piers Legh and Eleanor Savage
and the parents of Margaret Tyldesley who I don't know.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Kunigunda Rostislavna, Queen of Bohemia: Rurikid gateway

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 01:11:27

In a message dated 10/24/06 11:25:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

<< Do you have sources that makes Elisabeth a daughter of Almos? If she is,
then she would be older when she started having children as early as 1141.
Thirteen seems dreadfully young to me. >>

daughter of Almos is what Heraldry shows, Table 89 and Table 132
That is, that Elizabeth who married Miesko III d 1202

Although I agree Leo that Heraldry is ... a guide to Heraldry, surely this
attribution must be based on something for them to state it ?

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 02:02:12

Although BP as cited by Leo, also shows Josceline of Lorraine as a
half-brother of Queen Adeliza wife of Henry I

Will Johnson

Gurriato

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Gurriato » 26 okt 2006 03:54:28

"Mad Dog anti-re-cycling" <r.anthonybaldone@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nPN%g.3291$RR2.135@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

Anway the better place to live in your locality is Rio Grande du sol, they
also have gaucho's

It's GAUCHOS, not GAUCHO'S, and Rio Grande DO SUL, not DU SOL, you idiot.


GURRIATO

Gjest

Re: Sir Thomas de Grey

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 05:20:19

His mother cannot be Avice de Grey if she is granddaughter of Margaret
Odingsells.


She isn't. Margaret Oddingseles married John de Grey of Rotherfield, a
collateral line.
We do not know the name of Amice's grandmother who married John de
Grey, son of William de Grey of Sandiacre, Cavendish, etc. The fact
remains that it is unlikely that dau of Thomas de Grey, m. around 1306
to Alice Cornerth, would marry Thomas fitz Eustace, who was b. 1263.
If Thomas de Grey had an earlier wife, it might work.

As to Richard de Cornerth (1322) being grandfather-in-law of Thomas
fitz Eustace, I agree with Michael that is very unlikely (he would be
close to 100 years old in 1322). However, I am wondering if the
Richard de Cornerth who appears in Knights of Edward I might not be
brother of the Alice who m. Thomas de Grey abt 1306, rather than
father.

Mardi

Gjest

Re: Sir Thomas de Grey

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 05:46:01

Yes but, Thomas FitzEustache died BY 10.14.1318 leaving a grandson Thomas,
underage

This does not sound like a likely person to have married Amise who could
have, if she was really the granddaughter of Margaret Odingselles, not have been
born earlier than 1280. And certainly then, this Amise could not be the mother
of Thomas, eldest son Thomas who dvp before 1318, who not only already had a
son, but in addition that son's son was "aged 13 at the death of his father
about 1341"

Thomas FitzEustache, son of Thomas, was said, in this thread, to have
attained his majority in 1284.

His mother cannot be Avice de Grey if she is granddaughter of Margaret
Odingsells.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 05:55:03

In a message dated 10/25/06 8:35:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
royalancestry@msn.com writes:

<< Also, is
there a record which specifically states that Ida of Chiny was the
mother of Duke Gottfried I's son, Gottfried II, or is that simply a
presumption made by historians and genealogists? >>

Whether Ida was de Chiney or de Namur or something else, is interesting.
I had had her as "Ida de Namur" and then changed it based on what John said,
but now Peter has pointed out that Ida's ancestry is conjectural and in
conflict.

Will

Gjest

Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL-Digest Vol I, issues 6 and 7

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 07:06:02

These above issues arrived in my mail yesterday and today, but they came in
the form of an attached file in "mime format". Could somebody kindly let me
know:-
1. How can I read this file; and
2. How can I arrange for mail from gen-medieval to be sent to me in the old
way
MM

Mad Dog anti-re-cycling

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Mad Dog anti-re-cycling » 26 okt 2006 16:40:11

Gurriato wrote:
|| "Mad Dog anti-re-cycling" <r.anthonybaldone@hotmail.com> wrote in
|| message news:nPN%g.3291$RR2.135@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
||
||| Anway the better place to live in your locality is Rio Grande du
||| sol, they also have gaucho's
||
|| It's GAUCHOS, not GAUCHO'S, and Rio Grande DO SUL, not DU SOL, you
|| idiot.
||
||
|| GURRIATO

I know that I was just testing you you humorless fool.

--
"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD

The Highlander

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av The Highlander » 26 okt 2006 17:30:54

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:14:25 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
<poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

Deeeeeelightful!

And:

Hilarious!

This should serve to put the Brits in their place and stop them from
referring to the Spanish, as well as other Latin Peoples, as their
inferiors.

But it won't...

Because of Congenital & Engrained British Ignorance, Prejudice & Sloth.

DSH

Well, as someone who claims to be of English descent, I assume you
would know better that anyone else. Why don't we all get a grip on
reality and reveal that the family name was originally Heinz and that
your ancestors were "volkdeitsch" (as they call themselves in their
obscure patois); pig farmers from the Ukraine, no doubt redolent of
grease dripping from fat, sagging, underlips and blessed with
reassuringly homely names like Heinrich and Gertrude Heinz?

Your claim to be related to the Marquis of Montrose has been met with
gales of laughter from those of us in a better position to assess the
actuality of your family's tedious climb from Kiev pig breeders to the
heady social heights of Kentucky whorehouse pimps.

Hines is as lowclass an English name as one could imagine; why on
earth didn't your social-climbing ancestors aim for a name even more
redolent of the English peasant, such as Dobbs or Ramsbottom?

Did you really think that anyone from my class would believe for a
moment that someone called "Hines" could be anything other than the
descendant of peons who hoed mangelwurzels for some Somerset squire?

Talk about the Revolting Peasants!

In your case, "downwardly mobile"would be the phrase 'du jour'.
(meaning, 'of the day' - I realize from your highly individual
spelling that your education has been, shall we say, limited to an
uninspiring shamble from Grade One thru Five, to lapse into American
idiom and thus reassure you that this little message of encouraging
comment comes from someone a great deal more sophisticated than you
could ever hope to be, notwithstanding your exciting career as a
self-proclaimed, failed US Navy Housing officer.

Would "Officer" perchance have been preceded by the ominous words
"Non-Commissioned"? Or did your career soar to the heady heights of
Lieutenant (JG)?

Hilarious!

I wonder why you decided to infect our group with your dreary latino
friends? Do you have a passion for slim, brown hairless male bodies?

Certainly such sexual preferences would go a long way towards
explaining the sudden halt in your hitherto lacklustre naval career.
You sound rather like the sort of person who opens my car door when I
arrive at my club, touching the rim of his cap with a forefinger and
leering prettily in the hope that such outrageous butt-kissing will be
rewarded at Christmas time with a bottle of one of the cheaper
sherries.

But your greatest sin is that you are a dreary bore. If there were the
faintest trace of swashbuckling about you, I would be more inclined to
lean lightly on the paper tiger that is your character.

You are so dependably repetitive, that whenever your name appears as
the author of yet another wearily identical post to the previous
wallow through the old, familiar hackneyed phrases, no doubt
'borrowed' from some other poster of yore, I usually press the
'Delete' key.

In this instance, your headline attracted my interest in discovering
what new, unlikely cause you are currently espousing. You did not
disappoint me; as always I shook my head and wondered whether this
must be your nurse's day off.

And by the way , "Engrained" is spelled "Ingrained" by native English
speakers... Verb.sap.

Hilariousl

The Highlander

Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns
an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.
The views expressed in this post are
not necessarily those of The Highlander.

Don Stone

Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL-Digest Vol I, issues 6 and 7

Legg inn av Don Stone » 26 okt 2006 18:33:56

Millerfairfield@aol.com wrote:

These above issues arrived in my mail yesterday and today, but they came in
the form of an attached file in "mime format". Could somebody kindly let me
know:-
1. How can I read this file; and
2. How can I arrange for mail from gen-medieval to be sent to me in the old
way
MM



Subscribers to the GEN-MEDIEVAL digest will have noticed that the first
few digests after the switch to Mailman were plain text but that they
have now changed to MIME format (with individual messages as
attachments). If you really prefer to receive digests as plain text,
send an email with that request to GEN-MEDIEVAL-admin@rootsweb.com, and
I will manually update your subscription accordingly. (I note that
there is a comment at the rootsweb helpdesk that "MIME is not
recommended for AOLers.")

-- Don Stone

Gurriato

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Gurriato » 26 okt 2006 18:52:33

"Mad Dog anti-re-cycling" <r.anthonybaldone@hotmail.com> wrote in message

I know that I was just testing you you humorless fool.

You should have put a comma between you and you, you idiot!

GURRIATO

Bob Turcott

Re: Clue to Overton-Huitt/Hewitt family connections

Legg inn av Bob Turcott » 26 okt 2006 21:33:26

John,

on the same subject of Hewitt surname is Huet a variant of Hewitt? I think
origin of hewitt is from france can you comment on this.

thanks

Bob


From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Clue to Overton-Huitt/Hewitt family connections
Date: 26 Oct 2006 13:17:31 -0700

Presumably these Huits, Overtons, and Clarkes were related in some way
to Rev. Francis Higginson of New England and Capt. Robert Higginson of
Virginia:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... berkeswell

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... berkeswell


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
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Gjest

Re: Robert Strange and the Hungerfords

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 23:05:02

Tudorplace (search page for Hungerford) implies his ancestry is unknown

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/STRANGE.htm

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Robert Strange and the Hungerfords

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 23:17:02

PS stirnet
<a href =
"http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/hh4bz/hungerford02.htm#blackb">Entry</a> on stirnet

does not give this daughter Jane at all

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 23:20:03

Dear Douglas, Leo, John R, Peter and others.
Ancestral
Roots 7 and 8, line 149 citing Dr Erick Brandenburg`s Die Nachkommen Karls
des Grossen (1935) pp 52-56 indicates that Ida of Chiny was born abt 1083 to
Count Otto II of Chiny and his 2nd wife Adelaide, daughter of Count Albert III of
Namur by his wife Ida of Saxony. Otto II is given as the son of Count Arnold
II of Chiny and Adela of Rameru. The On line edition of Ancestral Roots 8
shows
this line on page 144, AR 7 has it on pp 131-32 See CP I: 235 for Ida`s
marriage.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: RPA additions - Kelke and Asfordby

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 23:58:02

In a message dated 10/25/06 9:45:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jthiggins@sbcglobal.net writes:

<< Christopher Kelke mar. Jane St. Paul, dau. of John St. Paul of Carleton
and Mary, dau. of Richard Lee of New Sleaford. No ancestry is given beyond the
parents for Jane St. Paul, but it appears that at least her paternal
grandmother Ellen Thimbleby and possibly her paternal grandfather John St. Paul of
Snarford are Plantagenet descendants. Ellen Thimbleby was dau. of Richard
Thimbleby and Elizabeth Hilton, dau. of Sir Godfrey Hilton and Margaret Willoughby
(for whom see RPA 756). John St. Paul of Snarford was son of another John St.
Paul of Snarford by his wife Joan, dau. of Sir Brian Stapleton of Wighill by
Joan Threlkell (for whom see RPA 683). The paternity of Joan Stapleton is from
Paget's ancestry of Prince Charles, but she does not appear in the standard
pedigrees of Stapleton of Wighill, so this one may be questionable. But the
Thimbleby connection looks good. >>


There is a possible chronologic problem with this ascent. There are a few
dates on this line.

Christopher Kelke, son of Christopher Kelke by Jane St Paul, was probate in
1587
His father Christopher Kelke had died 11 Aug 1557
Jane St Paul, dau of John St Paul of Carleton
John St Paul, son of John St Paul of Snarford by Ellen Thimelby
John St Paul son of John St Paul of Snarford by Joan Stapleton
Joan dau of Brian Stapleton by Joan Threlkeld
Joan dau of Lancelot Threlkeld by Margaret Bromflete

Okay we can stop here and work backward. Margaret Bromflete was first married
to John, 9the Lord Clifford who d 28 Mar 1461 at Ferrybridge so her marriage
to Lancelot had to be after 28 Mar 1461, the first child of that marriage
could not have been born before 1462 at the earliest.


So Joan Threlkeld was born 1462+
Her daughter Joan Stapleton was then born 1475+
Her son John St Paul was then born 1488+
His son John St Paul was then born 1505+
His daughter Jane St Paul was then born 1522+
Her son Christopher Kelke was then born 1535-58 since his father died in Aug
1557

Six generations of the shortest possible paternity and we only end up with a
23 year spread, makes me suspicious of this line. Although it's biologically
possible, I don't think it's passes the "cultural norm" test ;)

So it would be helpful if there were other documents that could help pin down
these ages better.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Robert Strange and the Hungerfords

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 00:36:02

In a message dated 10/26/06 2:45:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:

<< A2A has details of his daughter Mary's marriage settlement with Samuel
Coxwell, 1615, but nothing else obviously helpful. >>

Are you sure the 1615 document is for this Robert ? If so, he must have had a
prior marriage, as Jane Hungerford could not be a mother to a girl who got
married in 1615. Jane herself was still a child, being a daughter (if anything)
by Anthony's later marriage to "Sarah Crouch" which could not have occurred
until 1599 or later.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Robert Strange and the Hungerfords

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 01:07:03

With that, I am able to fill in the details on the baptisms of all these
except one.

For these baptismal records see
http://www.familysearch.org
International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Batch C054901
[extracted baptismal records]

Michael Strange had the following children, all baptised at Somerford Keyes
Bridget bap 7 Jul 1588
John bap 1 Jul 1589
Nicholas bap 29 aug 1591
Henry bap 20 May 1593
Michael bap 10 Jul 1594
Arthur bap 10 Jul 1594 [twin apparently]
Anthony bap 6 Jun 1596
Mary bap 17 Dec 1597

Robert himself does *not* appear, although obviously this is his family since
all the siblings match and the father matches, except the siblings who died
before Robert made his will. Is Robert's baptism perhaps later and not yet
extracted? Or maybe earlier and lost ?

Now as to Robert and his children, they also are all accounted for as follows
Lucy bap 22 Jul 1619
Elizabeth bap 11 Oct 1620
Margaret bap 1 Nov 1622
Ann bap 27 May 1623
Katherine bap 14 Apr 1626
Jane bap 3 Feb 1628
Robert bap 1 Jun 1631

Which of course opens the question of whether Jane Hungerford might actually
BE a daughter of Lucy Hungerford instead of Sarah Crouch.

Will Johnson

Mad Dog anti-re-cycling

Re: Most Brits Are Actually Spanish

Legg inn av Mad Dog anti-re-cycling » 27 okt 2006 01:08:25

Gurriato wrote:
|| "Mad Dog anti-re-cycling" <r.anthonybaldone@hotmail.com> wrote in
|| message
||
||| I know that I was just testing you you humorless fool.
||
|| You should have put a comma between you and you, you idiot!
||
|| GURRIATO

Got you again, may I recommend Sertraline for OCD, ask your shrink.

--
"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD

Peter Stewart

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 27 okt 2006 01:23:16

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
I think this exchange has been extremely useful to me, in straightening out
my records on this family. I still have a couple questions.

1) Peter stated that there is a document, made prior to Robert's Aug 1096
trip which mentions his wife and their two sons. Does it name the sons?

Yes, I had the text in front of me yesterday and will fetch it out
again as sson as I can.

2) Peter mentioned that there is a suggestion, speculation or assertion that
Clemence was born "not long after 1160". Is there any argumentation for why
that particular year was chosen? Looking at what I have on her parents and
siblings so far, I'm not seeing anything horribly useful at pinning it down so
narrowly. I suppose there is probably some document which names the siblings in
order and ends up sandwiching her between two others whose birthsyears are
known?

Again, yes - correcting the date to "not long after 1060". From memory
Sproemberg pointed out that Robert II of Flanders was the eldest son of
parents who married in 1063, and that the siblings of Clemence were
born around the same time - their parents were married by 1057, perhaps
before 1050, but I can't recall the discussion of this. I will check
when I can.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 27 okt 2006 01:24:14

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
I think this exchange has been extremely useful to me, in straightening out
my records on this family. I still have a couple questions.

1) Peter stated that there is a document, made prior to Robert's Aug 1096
trip which mentions his wife and their two sons. Does it name the sons?

Yes, I had the text in front of me yesterday and will fetch it out
again as sson as I can.

2) Peter mentioned that there is a suggestion, speculation or assertion that
Clemence was born "not long after 1160". Is there any argumentation for why
that particular year was chosen? Looking at what I have on her parents and
siblings so far, I'm not seeing anything horribly useful at pinning it down so
narrowly. I suppose there is probably some document which names the siblings in
order and ends up sandwiching her between two others whose birthsyears are
known?

Again, yes - correcting the date to "not long after 1060". From memory
Sproemberg pointed out that Robert II of Flanders was the eldest son of
parents who married in 1063, and that the siblings of Clemence were
born around the same time - their parents were married by 1057, perhaps
before 1050, but I can't recall the discussion of this. I will check
when I can.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: RPA additions - Booth

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 01:28:02

In a message dated 10/26/06 3:02:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jthiggins@sbcglobal.net writes:

<< Roger Owen of Condover; m. (her 1st) Alice Gerard of Gerard's Bromley
Sir William Owen of Condover, Sheriff of Shropshire (d. 1662); m. Frances
Needham
Sir Robert Needham, 1st Viscount Kilmorey; m. (1) Jane Lacy of Borston,
Somerset
Robert Needham of Shavington; m. Frances Aston of Tixall [this couple is in
RPA p. 707] >>


Is the above William Owen also that one who married Lettice Bagot (b 25 Nov
1606 Blithfield), dau of Walter Bagot by his wife Elizabeth Cave ?

This William who married Lettice is also called "of Condover, co Salop"

Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 02:07:02

I think this exchange has been extremely useful to me, in straightening out
my records on this family. I still have a couple questions.

1) Peter stated that there is a document, made prior to Robert's Aug 1096
trip which mentions his wife and their two sons. Does it name the sons?
2) Peter mentioned that there is a suggestion, speculation or assertion that
Clemence was born "not long after 1160". Is there any argumentation for why
that particular year was chosen? Looking at what I have on her parents and
siblings so far, I'm not seeing anything horribly useful at pinning it down so
narrowly. I suppose there is probably some document which names the siblings in
order and ends up sandwiching her between two others whose birthsyears are
known?

Thanks
Will Johnson

John Higgins

Re: RPA additions - Booth

Legg inn av John Higgins » 27 okt 2006 03:00:08

I've seen references to William Owen of Condover in Bagot pedigrees, but I
can't confirm how he fits into the Owen family - although I suspect he MAY
be a son of Sir William and Frances Needham. This is because one source
(not necessarily valid) says Sir William's son Roger was b. 1611, and if so
it would make sense for him to have a brother (older?) whose wife was born
1606. Just a guess, however....

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>; <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: RPA additions - Booth


In a message dated 10/26/06 3:02:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jthiggins@sbcglobal.net writes:

Roger Owen of Condover; m. (her 1st) Alice Gerard of Gerard's Bromley
Sir William Owen of Condover, Sheriff of Shropshire (d. 1662); m.
Frances
Needham
Sir Robert Needham, 1st Viscount Kilmorey; m. (1) Jane Lacy of Borston,
Somerset
Robert Needham of Shavington; m. Frances Aston of Tixall [this couple is
in
RPA p. 707]


Is the above William Owen also that one who married Lettice Bagot (b 25
Nov
1606 Blithfield), dau of Walter Bagot by his wife Elizabeth Cave ?

This William who married Lettice is also called "of Condover, co Salop"

Thanks
Will Johnson

Bob Turcott

Re: Clue to Overton-Huitt/Hewitt family connections

Legg inn av Bob Turcott » 27 okt 2006 16:27:12

John,

I believe you are correct Hewitt, Huit and even Huet are interchangeable,
it may be of English
origin but may have been introducted in france during a norman period.

Bob


From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Clue to Overton-Huitt/Hewitt family connections
Date: 26 Oct 2006 13:50:55 -0700

I think "Hewitt" and "Huit" are interchangeable in this period, but
don't know about their ultimate origins ...


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_________________________________________________________________
Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx

Steve

Re: Baptismal rec. of Boston schoolmaster Philemon Pormort/

Legg inn av Steve » 27 okt 2006 16:32:20

John,

I don't believe Philemon had two daughters named Elizabeth.

This website http://webpages.charter.net/fireballlunapier/n17.htm says
daughter Elizabeth married Samuel Norden and daughter Mary married
Nathaniel Adams, but doesn't give any sources. However, there is
another possibility, Elizabeth Pormort, the daughter, married Nathaniel
Adams and Elizabeth Pormort, the widow, married Samuel Norden.

By the way the pedigree of Philemon's wife Susanna Bellingham, on pages
39 and 40 of the book on BYU, is fake; see Lincs Notes and Queries Vol
XXI Page 7. In fact the book on BYU contradicts itself, page 18 says
William Bellingham was buried at Alford on 2 Sept 1606 and in the
pedigree on page 40 its says he died in 1620.

Steve

John Brandon wrote:
Did Philemon Pormott have two daughters named Elizabeth (one married to
Nathaniel Adams and the other to Samuel Norden)?

http://books.google.com/books?vid=08Okd ... y+philberd

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... dq=pormott

John Brandon

Re: Baptismal rec. of Boston schoolmaster Philemon Pormort/

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 okt 2006 16:59:07

Thanks for that note. Too bad 'it just ain't so' ...

The BYU book is online here (though I don't vouch for how long the link
will last):

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/docum ... 5852&REC=1



On Oct 27, 11:32 am, "Steve" <steven333...@hotmail.com> wrote:
John,

I don't believe Philemon had two daughters named Elizabeth.

This websitehttp://webpages.charter.net/fire ... 17.htmsays
daughter Elizabeth married Samuel Norden and daughter Mary married
Nathaniel Adams, but doesn't give any sources. However, there is
another possibility, Elizabeth Pormort, the daughter, married Nathaniel
Adams and Elizabeth Pormort, the widow, married Samuel Norden.

By the way the pedigree of Philemon's wife Susanna Bellingham, on pages
39 and 40 of the book on BYU, is fake; see Lincs Notes and Queries Vol
XXI Page 7. In fact the book on BYU contradicts itself, page 18 says
William Bellingham was buried at Alford on 2 Sept 1606 and in the
pedigree on page 40 its says he died in 1620.

Steve

John Brandon wrote:
Did Philemon Pormott have two daughters named Elizabeth (one married to
Nathaniel Adams and the other to Samuel Norden)?

http://books.google.com/books?vid=08Okd ... 1SQwzoC&...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... J&pg=PA5...

Leo van de Pas

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 okt 2006 22:05:33

I was given to understand that Elizabeth was the second daughter, she
married "before 1432' Thomas the first son was born in 1435, so at least two
daughters were older.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>; <mjcar@btinternet.com>
Cc: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family:
achallenge!


In a message dated 10/27/06 5:48:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

Then you have to presume the 3 daughters were born first to make
it possible that the 2nd daughter was married 'about' 3-4-5 years before
the
first son was born.

I don't find the evidence that the two other younger daughters were born
prior to the sons.

The second daughter Margaret marriedly firstly in 1448 and had three
children
before her husband William Troutbeck died in Sep 1459. She could have
been
born as late as say 1439, married as a child and be having all her
children in
the 1450s.

The third daughter Catherine (Heiress of the Manor of Camden) has nothing
too
terribly useful to pin her down. Her eldest son Sir John Savage was born
by
1459, and her husband also John Savage did not die until Nov 1495. The
birthyears of her other children, I have no documentation to tell me what
they were.
Her second son was the "King's Chaplain" in 1485 but I have no idea how
old
you'd have to be to have this position. Presumably at least 21

Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 okt 2006 22:45:48

One other aspect also makes me wonder. Could there have been (several) more
children? If we stick to the doubtful 1435 as year of birth for Thomas when
he mother was about 34, was he only, say, the third child born over, say, 15
years of marriage? In those days I would doubt that. Either, as has been
suggested, Thomas was much older or could there have been babies dying in
infancy? I think it is that Thomas was born before 1435.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>; <mjcar@btinternet.com>
Cc: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family:
achallenge!


In a message dated 10/27/06 2:05:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

I was given to understand that Elizabeth was the second daughter, she
married "before 1432' Thomas the first son was born in 1435, so at least
two
daughters were older.

Elizabeth married before 1432
Margaret married in 1448
Catherine married when? John Savage of Clifton certainly wasn't born
himself
until at least 1427 and possibly as late as 1442, so I'd say Catherine has
to
be married off after Elizabeth.

So I think Elizabeth is probably the eldest based on that. Although if she
is
second and there is some source for that, that stands up to scrutiny, then
Catherine *must* be the eldest, Margaret doesn't stand a chance with a
marriage
16 years or more after her sister.

Will

Gjest

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 22:52:02

In a message dated 10/27/06 5:48:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

<< Then you have to presume the 3 daughters were born first to make
it possible that the 2nd daughter was married 'about' 3-4-5 years before the
first son was born. >>

I don't find the evidence that the two other younger daughters were born
prior to the sons.

The second daughter Margaret marriedly firstly in 1448 and had three children
before her husband William Troutbeck died in Sep 1459. She could have been
born as late as say 1439, married as a child and be having all her children in
the 1450s.

The third daughter Catherine (Heiress of the Manor of Camden) has nothing too
terribly useful to pin her down. Her eldest son Sir John Savage was born by
1459, and her husband also John Savage did not die until Nov 1495. The
birthyears of her other children, I have no documentation to tell me what they were.
Her second son was the "King's Chaplain" in 1485 but I have no idea how old
you'd have to be to have this position. Presumably at least 21

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 23:31:03

In a message dated 10/27/06 2:05:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

<< I was given to understand that Elizabeth was the second daughter, she
married "before 1432' Thomas the first son was born in 1435, so at least two
daughters were older. >>

Elizabeth married before 1432
Margaret married in 1448
Catherine married when? John Savage of Clifton certainly wasn't born himself
until at least 1427 and possibly as late as 1442, so I'd say Catherine has to
be married off after Elizabeth.

So I think Elizabeth is probably the eldest based on that. Although if she is
second and there is some source for that, that stands up to scrutiny, then
Catherine *must* be the eldest, Margaret doesn't stand a chance with a marriage
16 years or more after her sister.

Will

Gjest

Re: Ascent of William Henry Harrison to Joanna Torkesey

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 okt 2006 23:52:02

William Henry Harrison, 9th President of the United States
born 9 Feb 1773 died 4 Apr 1841
son of

Benjamin Harrison 5 Apr 1726 - 24 Apr 1791
married 1745/6 Elizabeth Basset 13 Dec 1730 - 1792
daughter of

William Basset 8 Jul 1709 - 1744
married 29 Jan 1729 Elizabeth Churchill d 16 Apr 1779
son of

William Basset 1670/1 - 11 Oct 1723
married 23 Nov 1693 Joanna Burwell d 7 Oct 1727
daughter of

Major Lewis Burwell and Lucy Higginson d 6 Nov 1675
daughter of

Robert Higginson and Joanna Torkesey


Through William Basset d 1723 above, President William Henry Harrison also
has a descent from:
Thomas Paulet of Gotehurst and Margaret Burton
John Denebaud of Hinton St George and Florence Archdekne
Nicholas Carew of Mohuns Ottery and Jane Courtenay
Thomas Carminow and Jane Hill
John, 4th Lord Dinham of Hartland and Philippa Lovell
Sir Richard Arches of Eythorpe by his wife unknown to me

Will Johnson

Don Stone

Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12

Legg inn av Don Stone » 28 okt 2006 00:55:02

PALarge@aol.com wrote:

How come my digest is coming as .mim attachment? I thought attachments were
taboo on the list. I'm not downloading so if anyone wishes to respond
please do so directly to my address. Thanks

Peggy Large UE




Peggy,

You are receiving the digest in MIME format, with each message as a
separate attachment. This kind of attachment is not taboo. It enables
some readers to go quickly to the messages that are of interest to them.

As I mentioned recently, MIME format is not recommended for AOL users.
I'm changing your subscription mode from MIME to plain text. (Let me
know if that doesn't make things better.)

-- Don Stone

Gjest

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 01:23:02

In a message dated 10/27/06 9:15:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
royaldescent@hotmail.com writes:

<< Joan Goushill, Lady Stanley was returned as age 2 years and more in the
IPMs of her father taken September and October 1403, so born 1400/01.
She and her younger sister Elizabeth Goushill (born 1401/02) were both
married by 1423, when their husbands, Sir Thomas Stanley and Robert
Wingfield, along with their brother-in-law the earl of Norfolk, were
among a list of feoffees on whom new brother-in-law James Lord Berkeley
settled his estates. [Peter Fleming & Michael Wood, 'Gloucestershire's
Forgotten Battle: Nibley Green 1470' (Stroud: Tempus Publishing, 2003),
p. 38.] Both Goushill sisters may have even been married by September
1420, as neither is mentioned or provided for in the will of their
stepfather Sir Gerard Usflete, though he makes provision for their
unmarried half-sister Margaret Mowbray. >>

That is curious, because I had a note that Leo makes Elizabeth Goushill the
widow of William Hardwick and mother of his son Roger, ancestor of that famous
Bess Hardwick who got Queen Elizabeth so riled up. The marriage date is given
as 1431 implying that she could not have married Sir Robert Wingfield of
Leatheringham until at least 1432

Will Johnson

Debbi Logan

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Attn Peter Stewart

Legg inn av Debbi Logan » 28 okt 2006 01:42:02

I have received three posts on this thread originating from Peter Stewart
that included a .dat file attachment. I tried to e-mail him privately, but
it didn't go through. Is this something we should have been able to open?

Thanks

deb

-------Original Message-------

From: Jwc1870@aol.com
Date: 10/27/2006 5:22:39 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Cc: Jwc1870@AOL..com
Subject: Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Baudemont
Aragon, T...

Dear Douglas, Leo, John R, Peter and others.
Ancestral
Roots 7 and 8, line 149 citing Dr Erick Brandenburg`S Die Nachkommen Karls
Des Grossen (1935) PP 52-56 indicates that Ida of Chiny was born abt 1083 to

Count Otto II of Chiny and his 2nd wife Adelaide, daughter of Count Albert
III of
Namur by his wife Ida of Saxony. Otto II is given as the son of Count Arnold

II of Chiny and Adela of Rameru. The On line edition of Ancestral Roots 8
Shows
This line on page 144, AR 7 has it on PP 131-32 See CP I: 235 for Ida`S
Marriage.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

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Gjest

Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL Digest, Vol 1, Issue 12

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 01:45:04

How come my digest is coming as .mim attachment? I thought attachments were
taboo on the list. I'm not downloading so if anyone wishes to respond
please do so directly to my address. Thanks

Peggy Large UE


"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead"
thanks to Jimmy Buffett!

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Attn Peter Stewart

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 01:53:01

Dear Deb,
The post about Ida de Chiny and de Namur seems to be what I
posted and to my knowledge is complete. no file to open.
Sincerely,
James
W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

Randy Jones

Re: Ascent of William Henry Harrison to Joanna Torkesey

Legg inn av Randy Jones » 28 okt 2006 03:43:02

Did you skip a generation below between Joanna Burwell (b.c.1674) and Lewis Burwell (b.1621)? I have that Joanna's parents were Maj. Lewis Burwell (b.. 1653 d.19 Dec 1710) and Abigail Smith (11 Mar 1656-12 Nov 1692), and this Lewis was the son of Lewis (1621).

-- Randy Jones


----- Original Message ----
From: "WJhonson@aol.com" <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 5:49:45 PM
Subject: Re: Ascent of William Henry Harrison to Joanna Torkesey


William Henry Harrison, 9th President of the United States
born 9 Feb 1773 died 4 Apr 1841
son of

Benjamin Harrison 5 Apr 1726 - 24 Apr 1791
married 1745/6 Elizabeth Basset 13 Dec 1730 - 1792
daughter of

William Basset 8 Jul 1709 - 1744
married 29 Jan 1729 Elizabeth Churchill d 16 Apr 1779
son of

William Basset 1670/1 - 11 Oct 1723
married 23 Nov 1693 Joanna Burwell d 7 Oct 1727
daughter of

Major Lewis Burwell and Lucy Higginson d 6 Nov 1675
daughter of

Robert Higginson and Joanna Torkesey


Through William Basset d 1723 above, President William Henry Harrison also
has a descent from:
Thomas Paulet of Gotehurst and Margaret Burton
John Denebaud of Hinton St George and Florence Archdekne
Nicholas Carew of Mohuns Ottery and Jane Courtenay
Thomas Carminow and Jane Hill
John, 4th Lord Dinham of Hartland and Philippa Lovell
Sir Richard Arches of Eythorpe by his wife unknown to me

Will Johnson

-------------------------------
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Gjest

Re: Ascent of William Henry Harrison to Joanna Torkesey

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 04:01:02

I must have misread it.
This is the source I was using to connect the Higginson's to the Burwells

http://www.glenncourt.com/family/chart_higginson.shtml

Peter Stewart

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Attn Peter Stewart

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 okt 2006 04:47:00

"Debbi Logan" <dlogan3@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.10.1161992497.5663.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
I have received three posts on this thread originating from Peter Stewart
that included a .dat file attachment. I tried to e-mail him privately,
but
it didn't go through. Is this something we should have been able to open?

Not at all - I have no idea how any kind of files became attached to
messages of mine, and certianly these did not originate with my postings.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: FURNIVAL EYLESFORD and MILBORNE

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 05:16:02

Thanks to the courtesy of Wally Penrose I have been given access to a book
by V.M.Norr (Some Early English Pedigrees - apparently unpublished in print),
but I think available in typescript at the Latter Day Saints library at Salt
Lake City. Mr Penrose has kindly mailed me copies of the pages devoted to the
Furnivals and the Eylesfords.
Norr shows TWO Christina Furnivals, both married to Eylesfords- the former
(who married Gerald E) is well-known to the list - but the latter is shown by
Norr to have been the first wife of Sir John Eylesford, great-grandson of
Gerald.
All comments welcome
MM

pierre cossette

Re: Looking for Russian gateway (Ignatieff)

Legg inn av pierre cossette » 28 okt 2006 05:55:25

pierre cossette a
450-465-5614


From: Denis Beauregard <denis.b-at-francogene.com@fr.invalid
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Looking for Russian gateway (Ignatieff)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:34:45 -0400
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FILETIME=[84AA8280:01C6EE71]

On 11 Oct 2006 01:54:24 -0700, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote in
soc.genealogy.medieval:


Denis Beauregard wrote:
One candidate for the leadership of the Liberal party of Canada (the
previous government party) is Michael Ignatieff.

According to an article in the Globe and Mail, he is the grand-son
of a Russian count. Is there any Internet ressource that would link
that count to medieval ancestry ?

Here is one descent from mediaeval ancestors:

1. Gediminas, Grand Duke of Lithuania d 1341
2. Gleb, Prince of Pinsk etc
3. Alexander, Prince of Podolia
4. Patrikey, Prince of Zwenihorod
[...]

20. Princess Catherine Galitsina, married Count Nicholas Ignatieff
21. Count Paul Ignatieff, d 1945
22. Count George Ignatieff
23. Michael Ignatieff - propositus

Further online details (usual caveats etc) may be found here:

Thanks.

BTW, the only book about Russian ancestry I found at the SGCF library
in Montréal is a summary of the Romanov family but I know there is
one book about the Troubianev (sp?) and another about the kings of
Albania etc. both in another library. But it seems that I would
have quite limited data here about this family.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 -
http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

Gjest

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 07:10:03

In a message dated 10/23/06 9:14:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tim@powys.org
writes:

<< See this address:

http://community-2.webtv.net/NUbrubun55 ... DOFYESTER/

which links also to a part II at:

http://community-2.webtv.net/NUbrubun55 ... page2.html >>

Thanks Tim for these links which happen to ( as I now know) touch on my own
personal ancestry.
Joanna (Gifford) Hay who married Thomas Hay or de Haya, Sheriff of Peebles
was the gggrandmother of William Graham, 1st Earl Montrose

He already happened to be descendend from William Giffard, 2nd Lord of Yester
(b abt 1165)
through his daughter Janet married to Adam, Baron of Seton (d 1249)
but now from this site, he is also descended from William's son John newly
brought back to light.

Will Johnson

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Giffards of Yester

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 28 okt 2006 10:19:29

In message of 28 Oct, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:

<snip>

Joanna (Gifford) Hay who married Thomas Hay or de Haya, Sheriff of
Peebles was the gggrandmother of William Graham, 1st Earl Montrose

He already happened to be descendend from William Giffard, 2nd Lord of
Yester (b abt 1165) through his daughter Janet married to Adam, Baron
of Seton (d 1249) but now from this site, he is also descended from
William's son John newly brought back to light.

My only source for the Setons is my CDROM of the Scots Peerage and this
has no Adam Seton, baron of Seton, within either it or the corrigenda in
volume 9. They do mention an Adam Seton but say he was a churchman (and
thus not married) and that there is no early authority for him being the
heir of Seton (Vol 8, p. 562, note 10 which spills over to page 563).

Has something turned up since these volumes were published to correct
them?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Monica Kanellis

Re: Anthony Hungerford

Legg inn av Monica Kanellis » 28 okt 2006 16:32:25

Speaking of Anthony Hungerford's children, does anyone have anything
on Edmund (c1518) ? I'm not even sure who his wife having seen it as
both Ursula Ferrers and Ursula Frognall. I believe he had a daughter
Bridget from a brief mention in the Wilts. Visitation (if he is the
Edmund Hungerford of North Standen).

best,

Monica

Brad Verity

Re: Sorting out the order of births in the Stanley family: a

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 28 okt 2006 19:51:39

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:

That is curious, because I had a note that Leo makes Elizabeth Goushill the
widow of William Hardwick and mother of his son Roger, ancestor of that famous
Bess Hardwick who got Queen Elizabeth so riled up. The marriage date is given
as 1431 implying that she could not have married Sir Robert Wingfield of
Leatheringham until at least 1432


Dear Will,

The Hardwick/Goushill marriage with issue is a mistake that occurs in
Burke's Peerage, apparently.

See the following thread on alt.talk.royalty:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.talk ... 0cac106554


Cheers, -----Brad

Debbi Logan

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Attn Peter Stewart

Legg inn av Debbi Logan » 28 okt 2006 19:55:03

Dear Peter and James:

Thank you so much for letting me know about the file. I will go ahead and
delete them!

Debbi


Dear Deb,
The post about Ida de Chiny and de Namur seems to be what I
Posted and to my knowledge is complete. No file to open.
Sincerely,
James
W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gjest

Re: Sir Walter Stewart 3rd High Steward of Scotland

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 okt 2006 20:35:02

Dear John R,
Since MichaelAnne has proven Eve filia Swain to be the
mother of Walter Fitz alan, 3rd High Steward of Scotland, it still remains that
He grew up nearly of their kindred and that He was close to his second mother
Alesta and his Mar "uncles" Malcolm, James and Duncan.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

John P. Ravilious

Re: Sir Walter Stewart 3rd High Steward of Scotland

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 28 okt 2006 21:00:16

Dear James, et al.,

I believe this specific relationship is not proved, if the
accounts in Scots Peerage are (in essence) correct. See the following
message of this afternoon.

John

______________________________


Saturday, 28 October, 2006


Dear MichaelAnne, et al.,

If the accounts given in Scots Peerage are correct, the
problem concerning identifying the wife (wives) of Alan fitz
Walter emanates from the names given in the charters. As Tim
noted, in SP I:12 Eva, daughter of Swan, is noted as having been
married to an 'Alan fitz Walter': the error is not in the name,
but the identification of Alan. The footnote reads:

' (1) Liber de Scon, No. 125. The person referred to
being Alan, son of Walter Ruthven. Cf. the charter
cited, and the Chartulary of Lindores, Scot. Hist.
Soc. Ed. 30, 244. ' [1]

The account in SP concerning the family of Ruthven (Earls of
Gowrie) essentially dovetails with this version, with the
apparent error that Alan, father of Walter fitz Alan de Ruthven,
is identified as 'Alan, son of Swan' [2]. Other sources
indicate that besides Tranent and Tippermuir, the lands of
Ruthven were held by Swan son of Thor [3]: if this is correct,
it would appear the Ruthven identification is correct, and that
the problem is one of "the name's the same" {i.e. Walter fitz
Alan -> de Ruthven, not the Stewart).

If this is in fact the case, it does appear from the other
charters you cited that Walter fitz Alan, the Steward, had a
wife named Eva. I do wonder about her identification; the query
concerning the passage of lands from the alleged wife Alesta
(daughter of Morgund of Mar) to the Stewart family still
remains.

Cheers,

John



NOTES

[1] SP I:12, sub _The Kings of Scotland_.
Courtesy of Googlebooks, see

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... ISO-8859-1

[2] SP IV:254-5, sub _Ruthven, Earl of Gowrie_.
Courtesy of Googlebooks, see

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... ISO-8859-1

[3] James Taylor, The Grat Historic Families of Scotland (1887),
extract provided by ElectricScotland and Burke's Peerage
& Gentry:

http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/sco ... s0602a.asp





Jwc1870@aol.com wrote:
Dear John R,
Since MichaelAnne has proven Eve filia Swain to be the
mother of Walter Fitz alan, 3rd High Steward of Scotland, it still remains that
He grew up nearly of their kindred and that He was close to his second mother
Alesta and his Mar "uncles" Malcolm, James and Duncan.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Robert Strange and the Hungerfords

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 okt 2006 05:31:02

Will Johnson's extracted IGI baptism references seem very useful as
well, although I would suggest that Robert's ownweship of property at
Somerford Keynes indicates that his birth (and presumably baptism)
should pre- rather than post-date those presented.


Oh oh duh.... I missed that the first go round!
You are saying since Robert apparently was the male heir, that his baptism
should, most likely predate those of his other brothers. Provided of course
that at least one of those brothers lived until their joint parents had
deceased. So yes, on that instance, you're probably right. I'll make an
adjustment in my table.
Thanks
Will Johnson

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 30 okt 2006 01:15:58

Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.

How Sweet It Is!

"Wolseley" -- where the hell did she get that spelling?

Thomas Cardinal Wolsey has the right ring for the dog's name.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15685a.htm

Although the Yale & CIA Woolseys spell it as noted. Their Gateway Ancestor,
George Woolsey, reportedly arrived in America circa 1623/4.

Either Wolsey or Woolsey would be far better than "Wolseyley" -- how ruddy
pedestrian....

"George Woolsey, of Bristol, England. He came to New England about 1623/4
as a boy of 13. He was a partner of Isaac Allerton of Plymouth, and
apparently his representative in New York. He was town clerk of Jamaica,
L.I. His surname was written Wolsy, Wolsi, Wiltsie, Wiltze, and Wollsey."

The dog can then be Tom on informal occasions -- and Cardinal Wolsey on more
formal occasions -- such as a formal dinner -- and get choice scraps from
the kitchen -- or even under the table -- if he's well-behaved.

DSH

"Sheila J" <wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:HK11h.220006$R63.11706@pd7urf1no...

| ...as a serious lover of yorkshire [sic] pudding, I find that you can use
| most meat as a base. Roast pork is actually very, very nice as a base
| for the pudding!
|
| I"ve [sic] been in a muslim [sic] country for the last while [sic] and am
| desperate for some pork. I think roast pork sounds like a smashing
| idea! Thanks for the idea,
| Jamie!

Understood...

"Sheila J" takes any available opportunity to get smashed.

DSH

Renia

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Renia » 30 okt 2006 01:17:20

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

Sheila J

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Sheila J » 30 okt 2006 01:27:29

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9wb1h.88$kZ1.1242@eagle.america.net...
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.

How Sweet It Is!

"Wolseley" -- where the hell did she get that spelling?

\\

gosh, you are such a bore. Wolseley...General Garnet Wolseley. Probably
the greatest General who ever lived....

and your obsession with my body is getting a wee bit creepy....

Sheila J

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Sheila J » 30 okt 2006 01:28:06

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Renia

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Renia » 30 okt 2006 01:41:11

Sheila J wrote:

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.


We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Aw, sweet. I'm glad for you.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 30 okt 2006 01:49:05

Sad, SAD indeed.

Requiescat In Pace Wolseley.

DSH

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...

| D. Spencer Hines wrote:

| > Deeeelightful!
| >
| > I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
| > few more pounds -- pork for the porkers.
| >
|
| I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

"Wolseley" -- where the hell did she get that spelling?

Thomas Cardinal Wolsey has the right ring for the dog's name.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15685a.htm

Although the Yale & CIA Woolseys spell it as noted. Their Gateway Ancestor,
George Woolsey, reportedly arrived in America circa 1623/4.

Either Wolsey or Woolsey would be far better than "Wolseyley" -- how ruddy
pedestrian....

"George Woolsey, of Bristol, England. He came to New England about 1623/4
as a boy of 13. He was a partner of Isaac Allerton of Plymouth, and
apparently his representative in New York. He was town clerk of Jamaica,
L.I. His surname was written Wolsy, Wolsi, Wiltsie, Wiltze, and Wollsey."

The dog can then be Tom on informal occasions -- and Cardinal Wolsey on more
formal occasions -- such as a formal dinner -- and get choice scraps from
the kitchen -- or even under the table -- if he's well-behaved.

DSH

"Sheila J" <wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:HK11h.220006$R63.11706@pd7urf1no...

| ...as a serious lover of yorkshire [sic] pudding, I find that you can use
| most meat as a base. Roast pork is actually very, very nice as a base
| for the pudding!
|
| I"ve [sic] been in a muslim [sic] country for the last while [sic] and am
| desperate for some pork. I think roast pork sounds like a smashing
| idea! Thanks for the idea,
| Jamie!

Understood...

"Sheila J" takes any available opportunity to get smashed.

DSH

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 30 okt 2006 01:56:28

Delightful!

But Wolseley II is still saddled with the Wrong Name.

How long did Wolseley I [Wolseley The Great? Wolseley, Sr.? Sir Wolseley?]
live and when did he trot off to the Canine Celestial Sphere?

DSH

"Sheila J" <wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no...
|
| "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
| news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...

| > D. Spencer Hines wrote:

| >> Deeeelightful!
| >>
| >> I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
few
| >> more pounds -- pork for the porkers.
| >>
| >
| > I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.
|
| We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 30 okt 2006 01:59:15

Poor Wolseley...

He would have gotten much finer scraps from the kitchen and the table had
his full name been Thomas Cardinal Wolsey.

Sad...

DSH

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 okt 2006 03:37:02

Dear Douglas and others,
Supposedly the link is through Hildouin
III de Montdidier, Count of Roucy, who was father of Beatrix de Montdidier,
wife of Geoffrey II, Count of Perche, Adele dee Montdidier, wife of Arnold II,
Count of Chiny and Andre, Sire de Ramerupt and Arcis-sur-Aube who seems to have
married Agnes of Braine and been father of Gui de Baudemont, the father of
Agnes de Baudemont, heiress of Braine and Comtesse de Dreux. Admittedly this is
far from proven.
Sincerely,
James W
Cummings
Dixmont,
Maine USA
D

Peter Stewart

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 30 okt 2006 09:05:03

<WJhonson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.61.1161907569.24777.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
I think this exchange has been extremely useful to me, in straightening out
my records on this family. I still have a couple questions.

1) Peter stated that there is a document, made prior to Robert's Aug 1096
trip which mentions his wife and their two sons. Does it name the sons?
2) Peter mentioned that there is a suggestion, speculation or assertion
that
Clemence was born "not long after 1160". Is there any argumentation for
why
that particular year was chosen? Looking at what I have on her parents and
siblings so far, I'm not seeing anything horribly useful at pinning it
down so
narrowly. I suppose there is probably some document which names the
siblings in
order and ends up sandwiching her between two others whose birthsyears are
known?

My apologies for the time it has taken to get back to this - my limited time
& interest for the subject has been overtaxed by the continuing malarkey of
Richardson.

The charter given before Clemence's first husband Count Robert II departed
on crusade in September or October 1096 is 20 in _Actes des comtes de
Flandre, 1071-1128_, edited by Fernand Vercauteren (Brussels, 1938) pp
62-63: "Ego Rodbertus junior, Flandrensium marchyo....assentiente uxore mea
Clementia, cum filiis nostris Balduino et Wilelmo".

We are told by Hermann of Tournai that Clemence had three sons within three
years and then used some form of contraception, for which she was punished
by outliving all her offspring. The third and youngest of the sons, name
unknown, may have been dead already or possibly still unborn in the autumn
of 1096.

In any event, Clemence was entrusted with the rule of Flanders in her
husband's prolonged absence from that time, a burden that would certainly
not have been thrust onto a very young wife & mother. A full 23 years later,
on 22 October 1119, her brother Pope Calixtus II referred to his beloved
sister Clementia countess of Flanders, indicating that she was still a widow
at that time and not yet the duchess of Lower Lorraine. She must have been
approaching 50 by then, assuming she was born ca 1070 and in her mid-20s
when called on to rule Flanders. But she was more probably nearing 55, born
ca 1065 as concluded by Penelope Adair in her paper 'Countess Clemence: her
power and its foundation' (1993).

Clemence held 12 towns, or a third of FLanders by another account, as her
dower. After the death of her own sones as noted above, she was determined
to win the countship of Flanders for her illegitimate nephew-by-marriage
William of Ypres. The first attempt failed in 1119, the second came to an
unsuccessful climax in 1127 when Duke Godefrey was involved: the logical
probability is that Clemence's second marriage was entered in the mid-1120's
to gain his support for her cause.

Quite apart from the obvious fact that she was too old by then to have any
more children (and of course this would have spoiled the moral of Hermann's
story for his readers), it is equally clear that Joscelin, ancestor of the
Percy family, was not the only surviving son of a mother who must have
accumulated vast wealth from her dower and had no other offspring to benefit
from this.

By the way, if Richardson manages to find the letters of Pope Calixtus II to
King Henry I (a hint: these are printed in Dugdale's _Monasticon_) he will
find that no reference is made to their kinship. He will have to verify this
for himself, of course, and then find the rest of the 280+ surviving letters
and privileges of this pope to compare the greetings to other kings,
emperors and known kinsmen.

The definitive statement that Calixtus was related to the kings of Germany,
France and England ("Calixtus qui et Guido, natione Francus,
consanguinitatis lineam a regibus Alamanniae, Franciae atque Angliae
ducens") was made by a contemporary close to the pope. Richardson can find
out for himself who this was - if he has made any kind of useful start on
"examining" this question he should already know.

He will find out once again that baiting me and absurdly accusing me of
falsehoods is no way to get help.

Peter Stewart

Bryn

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Bryn » 30 okt 2006 09:29:50

In message <qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
<wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Nice move, don't be surprised WII starts playing with an invisible
friend...


--
Bryn

Dead men don't bite. But pretty soon they start to
smell.

Sheila J

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Sheila J » 30 okt 2006 09:48:15

"Bryn" <Scotland-the-Brave@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BX0x+IF+fbRFFw2$@finhall.demon.co.uk...
In message <qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Nice move, don't be surprised WII starts playing with an invisible
friend...

actually Wolseley 1 is on the mantle, but what is interesting is the fact
that the kids don't seem to distinguish between the two anymore...especially
Sammy...the two have just run together. Wolseley II is the son of Wolseley
I's sister so they look identical.

Bryn

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Bryn » 30 okt 2006 10:25:11

In message <j%i1h.218062$1T2.66682@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
<wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes
"Bryn" <Scotland-the-Brave@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BX0x+IF+fbRFFw2$@finhall.demon.co.uk...
In message <qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Nice move, don't be surprised WII starts playing with an invisible
friend...

actually Wolseley 1 is on the mantle, but what is interesting is the fact
that the kids don't seem to distinguish between the two anymore...especially
Sammy...the two have just run together. Wolseley II is the son of Wolseley
I's sister so they look identical.

We have the third and fourth generations of the same doggie line and you
are quite right, it is hard to distinguish between dogs, thankfully. I
am glad your children have taken to the replacement. What happened must
have awful shock. Its not the same as losing a hamster...


--
Bryn

Dead men don't bite. But pretty soon they start to
smell.

Peter Stewart

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 30 okt 2006 13:09:02

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:Cti1h.55705$rP1.22041@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

<snip>

By the way, if Richardson manages to find the letters of Pope Calixtus II
to King Henry I (a hint: these are printed in Dugdale's _Monasticon_) he
will find that no reference is made to their kinship. He will have to
verify this for himself, of course, and then find the rest of the 280+
surviving letters and privileges of this pope to compare the greetings to
other kings, emperors and known kinsmen.

"280+" is an inadequate enumeration - there are in fact 370+ altogether. I
wonder how long it will take the trained one to find the relevant
documents....

Peter Stewart

Sheila J

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av Sheila J » 30 okt 2006 14:47:33

"Bryn" <Scotland-the-Brave@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:RB2Vb4A3TcRFFwFT@finhall.demon.co.uk...
In message <j%i1h.218062$1T2.66682@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes

"Bryn" <Scotland-the-Brave@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BX0x+IF+fbRFFw2$@finhall.demon.co.uk...
In message <qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Deeeelightful!

I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
few
more pounds -- pork for the porkers.


I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.

We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.

Nice move, don't be surprised WII starts playing with an invisible
friend...

actually Wolseley 1 is on the mantle, but what is interesting is the
fact
that the kids don't seem to distinguish between the two
anymore...especially
Sammy...the two have just run together. Wolseley II is the son of
Wolseley
I's sister so they look identical.

We have the third and fourth generations of the same doggie line and you
are quite right, it is hard to distinguish between dogs, thankfully. I am
glad your children have taken to the replacement. What happened must have
awful shock. Its not the same as losing a hamster...



....especially given the circumstances.
Wolseley died of an aneurysm -instantly. He had the same routine every
morning. He would get off our 9 year olds bed and then go into the bathroom
when my husband had his shower early in the morning. Then he would go back
to the baby's bed. Well..that morning, he never made it past the bathroom
floor. It was a no-school day for the kids so after husband left, the kids
were all up and going into the washroom. I was off with them that day so
thought (finally!) a lie in. Then there was screaming :"Wolseley's dead.
Wolseley's dead" ..at which point I yelled back..no, he's not, he's just
sleeping leave him alone. Got up a little bit later, and sure enough..there
he was on the bathroom floor, full rigor mortis with his little doggie legs
up in the air. I freaked..called hubby at work, who came rushing home and
then..without thinking...took the body out to the garage. I told the kids to
go to their rooms, but Wolseley was a big dog so hubby was dragging him down
the stairs..(which are hard wood) *Thump* *Thump*
God..I was thinking..we have traumatized them for life...but, interestingly,
since we replaced him immediately with a new Wolseley, they just seemed to
assimilate the two of them into their memories...
No trauma. I hope.

--
Bryn

Dead men don't bite. But pretty soon they start to
smell.

Douglas Richardson

Correspondence of Pope Calixtus II

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 30 okt 2006 17:35:15

Peter Stewart wrote:

"280+" is an inadequate enumeration - there are in fact 370+ altogether. I
wonder how long it will take the trained one to find the relevant
documents....

Peter Stewart

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the surviving correspondence of
Pope Calixtus II may be found in Migne, Patrologia Latina, CLXIII
(1073-1383). Besides this edition, thirty-six of his letters are
contained in Hardouin's "Concilia" (VI, 2, 1949-1976). These same
letters, with two additional, are published by Mansi (XXI, 190-218);
some others are given by D'Achery [Spicilegium (Paris, 1723), II, 964;
III, 478, 479]; some additional ones are to be found in "Magn. Bull.
Rom. Continuat.", III, ed. Luxembourg, 1730, 12.

Spicilegium, vol. 2 is available through the online gallica website.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Kate Middleton & Victoria Beckham & Yorkshire Pudding

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 30 okt 2006 18:42:46

You took Wolseley I to a taxidermist, had him stuffed and now display him on
your mantle?

Is that typical of Canadian walrus decorator taste?

DSH

"Sheila J" <wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:j%i1h.218062$1T2.66682@pd7urf2no...
|
| "Bryn" <Scotland-the-Brave@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
| news:BX0x+IF+fbRFFw2$@finhall.demon.co.uk...
| > In message <qGb1h.216321$1T2.8492@pd7urf2no>, Sheila J
| > <wolseleyremove@shaw.ca> writes
| >>
| >>"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
| >>news:ei3ge4$ksb$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
| >>> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
| >>>> Deeeelightful!
| >>>>
| >>>> I'm always happy to help "Sheila J" and "Wolseley" [her dog] put on a
| >>>> few
| >>>> more pounds -- pork for the porkers.
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>> I think Wolseley has gone to doggie heaven, sadly.
| >>
| >>We bought his nephew...Wolseley II.
| >
| > Nice move, don't be surprised WII starts playing with an invisible
| > friend...
|
| actually Wolseley 1 is on the mantle, but what is interesting is the fact
| that the kids don't seem to distinguish between the two
anymore...especially
| Sammy...the two have just run together. Wolseley II is the son of
Wolseley
| I's sister so they look identical.

John Brandon

Re: Royal Ancestry of Robert Cole (ca. 1626-1662) of Heston,

Legg inn av John Brandon » 30 okt 2006 19:54:27

There is a very nice ancestor table of Oliver Mainwaring on John Blythe
Dobson's website:

http://cybrary.uwinnipeg.ca/people/dobs ... aring.html


The 16 great-great-grandparents of Margaret Torbock are
Richard Torbock and Elizabeth Daniers
Sir John Stanley and Elizabeth Weever
Robert Moore and Elizabeth Darby
William Ireland and Eleanor Molyneux
Sir Peter Gerard and Margaret Stanley
Edmund Trafford and Margaret Savage
Piers Legh and Eleanor Savage
and the parents of Margaret Tyldesley who I don't know.

John Brandon

Re: Letters of Breedon and Mavericke to Lord Clarendon

Legg inn av John Brandon » 30 okt 2006 21:13:38

"Neither is there to be left out, that hard measure wch the owners of
the Iron workes mett wth all, the workes wch cost them forteene
thousand pound, beinge taken from them, wth a full stocke of mine and
Coale, vpon prtence of a debt of three thousand three hundred pound."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Va8FAA ... don&jtp=41

Gjest

Re: Kinsfolk of Blanche of Navarre: Brabant, Vermandois, Bau

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 okt 2006 23:46:15

Dear Douglas,
Could You please provide us with a chart of Blanche of
Navarre`s descent from the comital House of Namur ?
Thanks in Advance,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Sir Walter Stewart 3rd High Steward of Scotland

Legg inn av Gjest » 31 okt 2006 03:29:51

In a message dated 10/28/06 10:35:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Jwc1870@aol.com writes:

<< He was close to his second mother
Alesta and his Mar "uncles" Malcolm, James and Duncan. >>


Was not Gilchrist, 3rd Earl of Mar 1182- also one of these uncles?
I also have a Gratney, Earl of Mar who I've stuck here as another brother,
but it appears to be wrong actually.

Svar

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