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hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 22:21:26

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

You're right about control freaks. Being around them is like being in
prison or smothered by a pillow.

I used to have nightmares of walking down the marital aisle as a lamb to
slaughter with a rope around my neck ... %)

Me too, but the nightmare was after the walk.

Well, you escaped and were *cured* ...%)

I did.

As to being a rebel, I was a right winger right through college in the
early '70s, one of the few Republicans in a solidly Democratic state,
and ran away from home to join the army, none the usual course for
counter-culture rebels. -the Troll


Hips, you were my right wing counterpart. I was a left wing hippie
flower child who ran away from home to ... well .... to ... I don't
think I joined the army ...;p

Chuckle, I think you would remember if you had. I could tell you had been
a left-wing-hippie-flower-child from your posts and perspective. You've
gotten better. :^) -the Troll

Well, until recently I still had very long hair. And I still prefer
making love to war ...%)

Of course, you're no fool. :^) -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 22:22:56

"La N" wrote in message

...we prefer to hang out with grown-ups!

Chuckle, most of the time. :^) -the Troll

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 23 aug 2006 22:25:50

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12ephpjm2ng6ubc@corp.supernews.com...
"La N" wrote in message

...we prefer to hang out with grown-ups!

Chuckle, most of the time. :^) -the Troll

Well, you have to be careful with the young uns, Hipster, as you already

when they're too little you have a propensity to squish them against walls.
Grown-ups are better able to protect themselves from the girth of my pet
hippo ... ;>

- nil

\"kls\"

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av \"kls\" » 23 aug 2006 22:29:41

Removed from SGB ta!


"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yJ3Hg.14925$Ch.5991@clgrps13...
"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12ephpjm2ng6ubc@corp.supernews.com...

"La N" wrote in message

...we prefer to hang out with grown-ups!

Chuckle, most of the time. :^) -the Troll

Well, you have to be careful with the young uns, Hipster, as you already
when they're too little you have a propensity to squish them against
walls. Grown-ups are better able to protect themselves from the girth of
my pet hippo ... ;

- nil

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 22:30:45

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

- nilita, who takes no victims ... they come willingly .....

Not me. I can see the hook. :^) -the Troll

I really don't think there's anything I could do for you anyhow,
Hipmeister, my slippery llittle ee;! ...%)

That's right, I'm too old for repairs. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 22:58:30

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message


[.]

If one is not a knee jerk one is capable of honest discourse, which is
the point. Knee Jerks, of whatever persuasion, merely parrot others and
are entirely self-satisfied doing so. 'Nil' doesn't seem bound by
philosophical convention. Neither are you and neither am I. We're too
ornery. I think 'Nil' isn't because she is a true free thinker, pinkish,
maybe, but no ideologue. -the Troll

Thank you, Hipster. Once upon a time I may have subscribed to the Daily
Kos and Arianna Huffington's blogs, not to mention the Democratic
Underground. Those days are long past me. I don't like the x-treme left
telling me how I should feel or think any more than I want that from
x-treme conservatives. Or people from the "middle", for that matter.

I doubt that my long canadian social democrat background and upbringing
will be truly weaned out of me, though, as I think I will always retain
certain values derived from that - including a kind of social worker
mentality.

Don't thank me. I'm just an observer. BTW, there is nothing wrong with
social workers unless they turn into time-serving bureaucrats - which many
do.

My Republican sister is an old timey nurse. She doesn't have to work but
continues to because she cares about people. She has the education and
experience to be a supervisor but refuses because it would take her away
from patients. You don't have to be a social democrat to care about
people. -the Troll

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 23 aug 2006 23:17:44

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12epjsaeg420bd9@corp.supernews.com...
My Republican sister is an old timey nurse. She doesn't have to work but
continues to because she cares about people. She has the education and
experience to be a supervisor but refuses because it would take her away
from patients. You don't have to be a social democrat to care about
people. -the Troll

Nahhh .... I'm not implying that you have to be a social democrat in order
to be in the caring profession. However, I grew up enculturated to believe
that there was something bigger than *me* Me* *ME* ....and that it was good
to take care of the poor, the sick, the aged, etc., as we are all citizens
of the world. My family has a long involvement in politics of one of the
left wing Parties in Canada, the New Democrat Party, with a strong focus on
socialized health care, the environment, education, security for the
elderly, voluntary service to the community, etc. etc. etc.

Tommy Douglas, who was in 2004 nominated by Canadians, as No. One Canadian
of all time, was a friend of my mother's family, and he was the originator
of the NDP. Regular poster, Andrew Chaplin, retired military, who works at
the House of Commons, knows at least one of my high profile political
relatives.

Anyway, my paternal and maternal grandparents were poor immigrant farmers to
Canada, and this is my particular heritage. I don't come from wealth but
from hard work, scratching in the dirt, neighbours helping neighbours, etc.

Anyway, here's a little bio of Tommy Douglas who is one of only two
politicians in my time that I have admired:
http://www.ndp.ca/ourhistory

And, Hippo? I hope yer still talkin' to me when you see how "pink" I am and
which I come by naturally / genetically ...%)

- nilita
Tommy Douglas and the formation of the NDP
At the founding convention of the New Democratic Party in 1961, Thomas
Clement (T.C.) Douglas was chosen as its leader. From 1944 to 1961, Douglas
served as Premier of Saskatchewan, the first social democratic government
elected in North America.

Douglas' working-class and religious family provided a strong background for
both his politics and his faith. His family left Scotland and settled in
Winnipeg in 1919 where Douglas witnessed the Winnipeg General Strike that
year. Leaving school at the age of 14, Douglas began a printer's
apprenticeship, then became involved in church work and in 1924 decided to
enter the ministry. He was at Brandon College for six years and it was there
that he was exposed to the Social Gospel.

When Douglas moved to Weyburn, Saskatchewan, following his ordination in
1930, he found much suffering caused by the depression and drought. Douglas
soon became involved in ministering to people's physical as well as
spiritual needs. His studies, along with his experience of the Depression of
the 1930s, led him to conclude that political action was necessary to
alleviate human suffering.

In 1931 he helped form a local association of the Independent Labour Party,
and two years later he attended the founding convention of the new
Co-operative Commonwealth Federation. Douglas ran unsuccessfully in the 1934
Saskatchewan election. Friends then convinced him that he should be a CCF
candidate in the federal election of 1935. This time he was successful.

The Second World War further entrenched Douglas' convictions. Although he
heard it repeatedly argued by Liberals and Conservatives that money could
not be found to put people to work during the Depression, money was found to
finance a war.

During his first two terms in Parliament, Douglas earned a reputation as a
skillful and witty debater. He claimed as his constituency the
underprivileged and exploited and he often took unpopular stands in defence
of civil liberties, including opposition to the internment of
Japanese-Canadians.

In 1944 Douglas resigned his federal seat to lead the Saskatchewan
provincial party in the successful general election campaign.

As Premier of the province for the next 17 years, he became a symbol of what
social democracy promised. His government was innovative and efficient,
balanced the budget each and every year, and pioneered many programs that
would later be replicated others, notably in the field of social services.

Douglas was elected the first federal leader of the NDP because of his
success in Saskatchewan and because he was universally regarded as the
left's most eloquent spokesperson. He was able to inspire and motivate Party
workers and he could also explain social democracy in practical, moral, and
ethical terms.

Douglas was defeated in the federal election of 1962, due largely to a
doctors' led backlash at the time against the Saskatchewan NDP government's
introduction of Medicare.

Winning a British Columbia seat in a by-election, Douglas went on to serve
as leader of the New Democratic Party until 1971 during which time he helped
ensure the introduction of medicare, pensions and the expansion of Canada's
social safety net in successive minority Parliaments. Tommy Douglas retired
from politics in 1979 and died in Ottawa in 1986.

In 2004, nearly twenty years after his death, Tommy Douglas was voted "The
Greatest Canadian" in a national CBC Television contest. Among the nominees
who Douglas edged out for the title were Lester Pearson, Pierre Trudeau and
Terry Fox.

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 23:26:53

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

I thought you learned your lesson about playboys? They know the game
too well and can't be trusted, even when they think they are reformed.
They are like a lushes on the wagon. Once a whore, always a whore. Leave
your heart in the fridge in Canuckistan so you can put it back in in one
piece.

I tease Big Daddy about being a former "playboy", for having waaaaay more
girlfriends than I had boyfriends .... and that kinda irritates him ...
%). You know? I think it's really romantic that this is a guy with whom I
crossed paths a long LONG time ago and who said he was always looking for
me (again). I never ever thought that he - or someone like him - would be
interested in *moi*, much less that I could ever ... ehem .... be reined
in ...%)

But, yer sweet, Hips, to care about me ... ahhh .... I think you should
give me away like a papa would ...%)

I would in a flash and have done it before. I like the idea of
marriage......except for me.


Florida is less plastic than California, but it's still plastic - except
in the more rural north. Driving past mile after mile of suburbs gives me
the old noose-around-the-neck feeling.

I've been there a few times. It's damned hot and muggy. But, of course I
wouldn't be canuckistanian if I didn't whine about the weather ...
anywhere! I understand your concern about the "plastic feeling". I've
lived in the big city but spent much of my life in G-d's country,
surrounded by mountains, lakes, streams, etc. to appreciate the wide open
spaces. For some reason, I think I will have the best of both worlds
...;)

Maybe. No mountains in Florida, or here much for that matter. We're closer
to high ground.

Have fun but keep your purse away from Linthicum. :^) -the Troll


He won't find much in my purse. 'sides which, I'll supply the wine, he
and his lovely wife will pay for the accompanying cruise. Jes' kidding,
Jack! ...%)

My deepest sympathies to his long suffering wife. :^) -the Troll

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 23 aug 2006 23:33:28

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12eplhgs90egp72@corp.supernews.com...
"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

I thought you learned your lesson about playboys? They know the game
too well and can't be trusted, even when they think they are reformed.
They are like a lushes on the wagon. Once a whore, always a whore. Leave
your heart in the fridge in Canuckistan so you can put it back in in one
piece.

I tease Big Daddy about being a former "playboy", for having waaaaay more
girlfriends than I had boyfriends .... and that kinda irritates him ...
%). You know? I think it's really romantic that this is a guy with whom
I crossed paths a long LONG time ago and who said he was always looking
for me (again). I never ever thought that he - or someone like him -
would be interested in *moi*, much less that I could ever ... ehem ....
be reined in ...%)

But, yer sweet, Hips, to care about me ... ahhh .... I think you should
give me away like a papa would ...%)

I would in a flash and have done it before. I like the idea of
marriage......except for me.


Ahhh ... that's so sweet .... you will at least get an invite ...;p

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 23 aug 2006 23:46:56

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

...we prefer to hang out with grown-ups!

Chuckle, most of the time. :^) -the Troll

Well, you have to be careful with the young uns, Hipster, as you already
when they're too little you have a propensity to squish them against
walls. Grown-ups are better able to protect themselves from the girth of
my pet hippo ... ;

Chuckle, it wasn't girth but inattention like getting used to having a new
puppy around. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 01:07:32

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

My Republican sister is an old timey nurse. She doesn't have to work but
continues to because she cares about people. She has the education and
experience to be a supervisor but refuses because it would take her away
from patients. You don't have to be a social democrat to care about
people. -the Troll

Nahhh .... I'm not implying that you have to be a social democrat in order
to be in the caring profession. However, I grew up enculturated to
believe that there was something bigger than *me* Me* *ME* ....and that it
was good to take care of the poor, the sick, the aged, etc., as we are all
citizens of the world. My family has a long involvement in politics of
one of the left wing Parties in Canada, the New Democrat Party, with a
strong focus on socialized health care, the environment, education,
security for the elderly, voluntary service to the community, etc. etc.
etc.

Tommy Douglas, who was in 2004 nominated by Canadians, as No. One Canadian
of all time, was a friend of my mother's family, and he was the originator
of the NDP. Regular poster, Andrew Chaplin, retired military, who works
at the House of Commons, knows at least one of my high profile political
relatives.

Anyway, my paternal and maternal grandparents were poor immigrant farmers
to Canada, and this is my particular heritage. I don't come from wealth
but from hard work, scratching in the dirt, neighbours helping neighbours,
etc.

Anyway, here's a little bio of Tommy Douglas who is one of only two
politicians in my time that I have admired:
http://www.ndp.ca/ourhistory

And, Hippo? I hope yer still talkin' to me when you see how "pink" I am
and which I come by naturally / genetically ...%)

Of course. My father was a corporate robot and general asshole. I don't
expect you to take it out on me.

I'm right fond of people, I just don't think government cares, no matter
what it says or promises. Bread and circuses didn't help the Romans much
and social revolution didn't help any place it has been tried from Cuba to
China. What you wind up with is a dependant population which can no longer
take care of itself. Government paternalism is just as debilitating as
over-parenting or personal paternalism, That's why I could never be a social
democrat. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 01:11:55

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

I thought you learned your lesson about playboys? They know the game
too well and can't be trusted, even when they think they are reformed.
They are like a lushes on the wagon. Once a whore, always a whore.
Leave your heart in the fridge in Canuckistan so you can put it back in
in one piece.

I tease Big Daddy about being a former "playboy", for having waaaaay
more girlfriends than I had boyfriends .... and that kinda irritates him
... %). You know? I think it's really romantic that this is a guy with
whom I crossed paths a long LONG time ago and who said he was always
looking for me (again). I never ever thought that he - or someone like
him - would be interested in *moi*, much less that I could ever ... ehem
.... be reined in ...%)

But, yer sweet, Hips, to care about me ... ahhh .... I think you should
give me away like a papa would ...%)

I would in a flash and have done it before. I like the idea of
marriage......except for me.


Ahhh ... that's so sweet .... you will at least get an invite ...;p

Only if you get hitched in Charlesburg. That's my rule. -the Troll

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 24 aug 2006 01:19:13

Yep...

I've LONG suspected that about "Hippo".

Great Hatred for his father colors everything he writes.

Yes, Virginia, Biographical Details DO matter -- although "Hippo" tries to
deny it.

DSH

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12epre7nh9l968a@corp.supernews.com...

Of course. My father was a corporate robot and general asshole. I don't
expect you to take it out on me.

Fred J. McCall

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av Fred J. McCall » 24 aug 2006 01:30:35

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

:
:"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
:news:12epjsaeg420bd9@corp.supernews.com...
:> >
:> My Republican sister is an old timey nurse. She doesn't have to work but
:> continues to because she cares about people. She has the education and
:> experience to be a supervisor but refuses because it would take her away
:> from patients. You don't have to be a social democrat to care about
:> people. -the Troll
:
:Nahhh .... I'm not implying that you have to be a social democrat in order
:to be in the caring profession. However, I grew up enculturated to believe
:that there was something bigger than *me* Me* *ME* ....and that it was good
:to take care of the poor, the sick, the aged, etc., as we are all citizens
:of the world.

We all feel that way. The problem arises when folks want to put it
into law and then force ME to pay for it while THEY do not.

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 24 aug 2006 01:56:28

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tg6Hg.216$15.2301@eagle.america.net...
"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12epre7nh9l968a@corp.supernews.com...

Of course. My father was a corporate robot and general asshole. I don't
expect you to take it out on me.


Yep...

I've LONG suspected that about "Hippo".

Great Hatred for his father colors everything he writes.

Yes, Virginia, Biographical Details DO matter -- although "Hippo" tries to
deny it.

DSH

All you've "suspected", dickhead, is that Hippo troll doesn't give a rat's
patootie what you think and it bugs your ass!

What *I* infer from my buddy Hippo's comment is that his dad "was a
corporate robot and general asshole" and that Hippo has striven to be a
better (kinder) person than his dad. I'm gratified that people can learn
from the mistakes of their parents and try not to condemn themselves to
repeating them.

Hippo has a lot of insight; and despite our differences, he and I like and
respect each other.

And it don't get better than that, Virginia!

- nilita

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 06:43:32

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Yep...

I've LONG suspected that about "Hippo".

Great Hatred for his father colors everything he writes.

Yes, Virginia, Biographical Details DO matter -- although "Hippo" tries to
deny it.

You've got that wrong too. Dislike is not hatred and it wasn't the poor
bastard's fault. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 06:53:12

"La N" wrote in message

All you've "suspected", dickhead, is that Hippo troll doesn't give a rat's
patootie what you think and it bugs your ass!

What *I* infer from my buddy Hippo's comment is that his dad "was a
corporate robot and general asshole" and that Hippo has striven to be a
better (kinder) person than his dad. I'm gratified that people can learn
from the mistakes of their parents and try not to condemn themselves to
repeating them.

Hippo has a lot of insight; and despite our differences, he and I like and
respect each other.

Thanks, kid. :^) You've got it right. My old man was a tidy little fellow
who folded his underwear and had no idea how to relate to children. It
wasn't his fault. He was an only child raised in a sterile, loveless,
humorless home. I do try to do better. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 06:54:49

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

We all feel that way. The problem arises when folks want to put it
into law and then force ME to pay for it while THEY do not.

Chuckle, well put. -the Troll

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 24 aug 2006 07:24:16

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12eqfpe9e58sh7e@corp.supernews.com...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

We all feel that way. The problem arises when folks want to put it
into law and then force ME to pay for it while THEY do not.

Chuckle, well put. -the Troll


Well, you see, this is an example of appreciating what you grow up with and
get accustomed to in each of our countries. And I always like to use my own
self as an example. I survived a rare and mostly deadly form of leukemia,
thanks to a team of caring dedicated doctors and nurses, pharmacists,
technologists, and others ... all at the taxpayers' expense. And, believe
me, it cost a *lot* of money to keep me alive and put me in remission. Up
here, not a one person complained and, in fact, applauded my survival,
knowing that each one of them would have the same services available to them
if *they* were in the same boat.

Sadly, I have had some conservative USAians say to me ... no offense ....
but what a waste of taxpayers' money.

Universal health care is going to be one of the things that will be
difficult for me to give up if - nay when - I become a U.S. citizen.

- nilita

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 24 aug 2006 07:33:11

Any man who refers to his OWN FATHER as a bastard obviously has some severe
psychological problems.

So, you've just proven my case.

DSH

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12eqf49fvhn4002@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Yep...

I've LONG suspected that about "Hippo".

Great Hatred for his father colors everything he writes.

Yes, Virginia, Biographical Details DO matter -- although "Hippo" tries
to deny it.

You've got that wrong too. Dislike is not hatred and it wasn't the poor
bastard's fault. -the Troll

Leticia Cluff

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av Leticia Cluff » 24 aug 2006 12:45:51

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:52:46 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
<poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hilarious!

"Leticia Cluff" [an appropriate name] is so sow-ignorant and stupid she does
not even know the expression and alleged custom of PRIMA NOCTA.

Yet she tries to correct her betters on USENET.

How Sweet It Is!

Vanessa, it just doesn't get any better than this.

Enjoy!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... rima+Nocta


I am eternally grateful to DSH for introducing me to the Urban
Dictionary. While it is not much of an authority on correct Latin it
is full of fascinating modern slang. I have been studying it ever
since DSH drew our attention to it.

Did you know, for example that the word "hinesy" is a noun meaning
"the usage of sexual metaphorical content in the context of a
classroom or classroom like environment with blatant disregard to
socially accepted status quo"?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hinesy

There are numerous other terms invovling the element "hiney," but
modesty prevents me from citing them here.

I never knew before that a Fred is a "guy with no particularly good
character traits that still manages to shuffle in and steal all the
girls." Gray has several different pejorative senses, but Bryn is
defined as a "sexy beast." Vince is "A term used for drunks. Also used
as a verb for drinking way too much." Hippo, apart from the obvious
connotations of fatness, is "A word to take the place of any cursing
word." We learn too that Miguel is "used in alot [sic] of hispanic
[sic] derogatory references."

Turning to the distaff side, I see that Celia means "A beutiful [sic]
woman with very bad luck," while Letitia is a "super cool chick who's
[sic] name means joy or happiness in latin [sic]," besides other less
mentionable meanings (and please don't look up Tish!). My surname
Cluff has four different senses, three of which are revolting.

Tish

Julian Richards

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av Julian Richards » 24 aug 2006 13:54:31

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:45:51 +0200, Leticia Cluff
<tish.nospam.cluff@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:52:46 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hilarious!

"Leticia Cluff" [an appropriate name] is so sow-ignorant and stupid she does
not even know the expression and alleged custom of PRIMA NOCTA.

Yet she tries to correct her betters on USENET.

How Sweet It Is!

Vanessa, it just doesn't get any better than this.

Enjoy!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... rima+Nocta


I am eternally grateful to DSH for introducing me to the Urban
Dictionary. While it is not much of an authority on correct Latin it
is full of fascinating modern slang. I have been studying it ever
since DSH drew our attention to it.

How about this?

http://www.viz.co.uk/?%2Fprofanisaurus% ... p%3Ffb%3D1

In the full version, "Mary Chipperfield" is a euphemism for the
euphemism "spank the monkey".
--

Julian Richards

http://www.richardsuk.f9.co.uk
Website of "Robot Wars" middleweight "Broadsword IV"

THIS MESSAGE WAS POSTED FROM SOC.HISTORY.MEDIEVAL

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 14:39:56

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Any man who refers to his OWN FATHER as a bastard obviously has some
severe psychological problems.

So, you've just proven my case.

The term I used was 'poor bastard', which has an entirely different
connotation, something you would have noticed if you had not been so
frantically digging for dirt. It must be tough when your ego makes you make
an ass of yourself with solecisms on that level. Your alma mater would be
appalled. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 24 aug 2006 15:27:01

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

We all feel that way. The problem arises when folks want to put it
into law and then force ME to pay for it while THEY do not.

Chuckle, well put. -the Troll


Well, you see, this is an example of appreciating what you grow up with
and get accustomed to in each of our countries. And I always like to use
my own self as an example. I survived a rare and mostly deadly form of
leukemia, thanks to a team of caring dedicated doctors and nurses,
pharmacists, technologists, and others ... all at the taxpayers' expense.
And, believe me, it cost a *lot* of money to keep me alive and put me in
remission. Up here, not a one person complained and, in fact, applauded
my survival, knowing that each one of them would have the same services
available to them if *they* were in the same boat.

Sadly, I have had some conservative USAians say to me ... no offense ....
but what a waste of taxpayers' money.

Universal health care is going to be one of the things that will be
difficult for me to give up if - nay when - I become a U.S. citizen.

It's extraordinary diseases like leukemia that should be covered by
government supported insurance, like a shock absorber to the system. It
should *not* cover elective surgery like abortions, sex changes, cosmetic
surgery, liposuction, and the rest of that foolishness, or normal ailments
easily covered by insurance.

You will find that medical care here is excellent *if* you have the
insurance to pay for it. -the Troll

La N

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av La N » 24 aug 2006 16:15:02

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12erb1gb0fe4lf4@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Any man who refers to his OWN FATHER as a bastard obviously has some
severe psychological problems.

So, you've just proven my case.

The term I used was 'poor bastard', which has an entirely different
connotation, something you would have noticed if you had not been so
frantically digging for dirt. It must be tough when your ego makes you
make an ass of yourself with solecisms on that level. Your alma mater
would be appalled. -the Troll

He has never forgiven you, Hippo, for "slipping the [his] leash"! Doesn't
it irk you when others tell you what you are supposedly meaning, thinking,
feeling, never mind *what* you are supposed to mean, think, feel?

The Hips and I don't like control freaks <spit>!

- nilita

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 24 aug 2006 17:51:44

Any man who refers to his OWN FATHER as a bastard obviously has some severe
psychological problems.

Disgraceful!

But Vastly Amusing.

So, you've just proven my case.

DSH

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12eqf49fvhn4002@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Yep...

I've LONG suspected that about "Hippo".

Great Hatred for his father colors everything he writes.

Yes, Virginia, Biographical Details DO matter -- although "Hippo" tries
to deny it.

You've got that wrong too. Dislike is not hatred and it wasn't the poor
bastard's fault. -the Troll

hippo

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av hippo » 25 aug 2006 00:39:29

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Any man who refers to his OWN FATHER as a bastard obviously has some
severe psychological problems.

So, you've just proven my case.

The term I used was 'poor bastard', which has an entirely different
connotation, something you would have noticed if you had not been so
frantically digging for dirt. It must be tough when your ego makes you
make an ass of yourself with solecisms on that level. Your alma mater
would be appalled. -the Troll

He has never forgiven you, Hippo, for "slipping the [his] leash"! Doesn't
it irk you when others tell you what you are supposedly meaning, thinking,
feeling, never mind *what* you are supposed to mean, think, feel?

The Hips and I don't like control freaks <spit>!

He never held my 'leash'. I don't own one and have no attachment point for
one, as you say. We agree on most politics, but that's in spite of him
rather than his creation. -the Troll

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Stockdill Tells Us He Is A Bastard

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 25 aug 2006 01:28:19

I've never had anyone on a LEASH.

How Revolting & Inhumane!

Shades of Abu Ghraib & Lindsay English...

"Hippo" Has Slipped His Fragile Leash To REALITY.

And Hates His Father As Well...

A Very Ill & Confused Fellow Is Our "Hippo"

Poor Lad.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Semper Fidelis

Gjest

Re: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2006 08:30:03

In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de Guillaume le
Conquérant
c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non seigneur de CONQUES
conches est dans le département de l'EURE en NORMANDIE


oh ps he says conches is in the department of Eure en Normandy

Gjest

Re: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2006 08:40:04

In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de Guillaume le
Conquérant
c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non seigneur de CONQUES
conches est dans le département de l'EURE en NORMANDIE


A small error with the name of the companion of William the Conqueror
It is Ralph de Toeni Seigneur de Conches
not Seigneur de Conques

He is saying the place is wrong.

Gjest

Re: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2006 08:51:37

Conches is in Normandy, Conques in the Pyrenées (the mountains in the
Spanish border).
If Ralph de Toeni (Tosny?) was a companion of Willam, it should have
been Conches.
Btw, both beautiful places.

Regards
Francisco


"Diana Gale Matthiesen" escreveu:
Thank you, but is *he* correct? Or was Cokayne right in the first place? Or
did Spencer misquote Cokayne? (Or did I mis-quote Spencer? I'll have to
check...)

-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson@aol.com [mailto:WJhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:27 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: help with Ralph de Toeni


In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de
Guillaume le
Conquérant
c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non seigneur de CONQUES
conches est dans le département de l'EURE en NORMANDIE


A small error with the name of the companion of William the Conqueror
It is Ralph de Toeni Seigneur de Conches
not Seigneur de Conques

He is saying the place is wrong.



Diana Gale Matthiesen

RE: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Diana Gale Matthiesen » 25 aug 2006 09:21:02

Thank you, but is *he* correct? Or was Cokayne right in the first place? Or
did Spencer misquote Cokayne? (Or did I mis-quote Spencer? I'll have to
check...)

-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson@aol.com [mailto:WJhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:27 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: help with Ralph de Toeni


In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de
Guillaume le
Conquérant
c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non seigneur de CONQUES
conches est dans le département de l'EURE en NORMANDIE


A small error with the name of the companion of William the Conqueror
It is Ralph de Toeni Seigneur de Conches
not Seigneur de Conques

He is saying the place is wrong.



Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 25 aug 2006 11:16:51

In message of 25 Aug, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de Guillaume
le Conquérant c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non
seigneur de CONQUES conches est dans le département de l'EURE en
NORMANDIE


A small error with the name of the companion of William the Conqueror
It is Ralph de Toeni Seigneur de Conches not Seigneur de Conques

He is saying the place is wrong.

It might also be worth consulting "My Ancestors came with the Conqueror"
by Anthony J Camp, pub Society of Genealogists:

http://www.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_Orde ... s_135.html

This booklet does not fully support the list given by 'Prof' D
Spencer Hines.


PS: Never heard of 'Prof' D Spencer Hines of Yale University before.
Who is he?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Patricia Junkin

Re: Hartley's of Lancashire

Legg inn av Patricia Junkin » 25 aug 2006 21:30:03

Holly,
I descend from a Hartley family that joined the George Fox movement and came
to America with the Quaker influx circa 1700.
The family of Hartley has resided in Lancashire and the West Riding of
Yorkshire ³from time out of mind.²
Probably before 1300, the Hartleys held copyhold tenure in Lancashire; that
is a ³form of customary tenure by which a tenant held a copy of the entry
in the rolls of the manorial Œcourt baron which recorded his or her
possession of a holding on agreed terms.¹ In the Middle Ages the tenant
performed services;² this later converted to cash payments. In the records
of the Halmote Court (proceedings held at a Hall), for instance, there is a
continuous account of the Hartley copyholds, one of which is Beardshaw
(Booth). Much of their land appears to fall in the Manor of Ightenhill. On
25 November 1323 and in January of 1324, Roger de Hertilegh was taxed for a
dwelling and acreage at the Halmote of Colne. The great difficulty in
creating genealogies is that within the various communities, Hartleys of
like name, in the same time frame, are holding land, being born, marrying
and dying. For instance, you have at Newchurch in 1625, 30 Sep. a Roger
Hartley born to a John Hartley while at Noonenow in 1634, 14 Nov. a Roger
Hartley was born to a John Hartley; all these Hartleys probably descending
from common ancestors.
Families in this area frequently intermarried. Among the connected families
are: Vipont, Hargreaves, Halstead, Folds, Kippax, Townley, Sagar,Wilkerson,
Baldwin, Eckroyds, Taylor, etc.
The names you mention are all common to the Hartleys in Lancashire and it
will take a bit of sorting to perhaps locate your family.
I do have a Christopher and Henry in this earlier references:
In 1534 Release:J John Townley, knt., Thos, Emajott(?)[Emmott], Nich.
Mychell, John Dryer, John Kepasse [Kippax], John Hargreves, Geoffrey
Hartley, Christopher Hertley, the elder, Roger Hartley of Agua, Laurence
Hartley of Baroforth, Jas. Robynson, Hen. Hartley of Trawden, Laurence
Hargreves of Chambre(.key?), John Hargreffes of Grenefeld, Jas. Hanson, John
Hyrst, Henry Walton of Hoge howse & John Smyth of Follrygge, guardians of
the parish church of Colne co. Lanc., with the consent of all the
parishioners of Colne, have released to Alice Lee, widow, & Chas. Townley,
esq., all the interest we have in the messuages, etc., which (late were of
Nicholas) Lee of Lynerode....
Email me privately and I will try to help further.
Pat
----------
From: "Holly" <holly_tamer@yahoo.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Hartley's of Lancashire
Date: Fri, 25, 2006, 11:57 AM


Seeking father of Henry Hartley babt 1635 married Mary Tayler
3-4-1655 St.Chard,Rochdale,Lancashire,England

There is at least 3 Christopher,a dozen John's, a Robert,
and dozens of Jacob/James all with Henry's born about the right time.

Any help appreciated,Holly

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Re: McLaughlin's Weird, Neurotic Fixation On Foxes & Fox

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 26 aug 2006 00:08:07

There's that terrible and pathetic British Class Consciousness raising its
ugly head again.

DSH

"Alan Holmes" <alan.holmes@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:gAKHg.18930$Z82.390@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

In what way am I wrong, foxes do damage and kill just for the sake of it,
rather like the upper class in this country.

Alan

Gjest

Re:The Comyns and the House of Galloway; a prior connection

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 aug 2006 02:05:02

Dear John ,
In your post You said that the two Waldeves were different
men with different careers and different families. Who was Waldeve who
fathered Uchtred, Lord of Tynedale ?Any details would be helpful concerning the
career of either father or son.
Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Mr. Cogswell's brother-in-law, Samuel Thompson, Doctor o

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 aug 2006 15:36:02

Does anyone know if this Samuel Thompson family was kin to Margaret Thompson
who was born about 1655 in Watertown Middlesex, Mass. and who married George
Phillips?

Jno

D. Spencer Hines

Re: McLaughlin's Weird, Neurotic Fixation On Foxes & Fox Hun

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 26 aug 2006 18:27:03

Hear! Hear!

DSH

"Guy Etchells" <guy.etchells@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:44F07DC1.5090307@virgin.net...

Or it could be that as in Scotland the authorities turn a blind eye and
pretend it doesn't happen.

Farmers in Wales seem to think there has been an increase in fox attacks
since hunting stopped.

"The ban on foxhunting over the last year has led to an explosion in the
population to unprecedented levels. In some cases farmers who lost six or
seven lambs to foxes have seen the numbers they lose jump to between 35
and 40.

That was last spring when fox numbers were only just starting to rise. But
nine months later the fox population has risen beyond belief.
If radical action is not taken to reduce the numbers in the New Year,
there will be hundreds of lambs killed this spring."

Cheers
Guy


Ye Old One wrote:
What is interesting is that there has been no increase in those sorts
of attacks since hunting was banned. I find that very telling.
--
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, England.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: McLaughlin's Weird, Neurotic Fixation On Foxes & Fox Hun

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 26 aug 2006 18:31:36

On Target!

DSH

" Jill" <news@NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44f08182$0$3224$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

Ye Old One wrote:

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:34:07 +1000, "Farm1" <please@askifyouwannaknow


What is interesting is that there has been no increase in those sorts
of attacks since hunting was banned. I find that very telling.

Yes there has
I sell electric netting to protect poultry -- there have definately been
more attacks
There are more areas where birds have ranged perfectly safely for years
which have been seeing more and more daylight attacks
This will get much worse in the future as the population of foxes declines
in health.
I have also done research in the past on the diet of foxes taken by hunts
and compared that with road kill and other deaths.
My clear observations were that the hunt foxes [and I told them I wanted
them in any state as all I needed was the stomach and guts] were always
clean killed at the hunts I was working with and that the victims were
all, without exception, weak individuals. The difference between them and
random accidental kills was anywhere between 25% to 45% less body
condition and weight. There were plenty of other markers for health that
showed the same results including the diet.
Its these sorts of foxes that are the greatest threat to domestic birds
[and other domestic animals in the long run] as they are that bit more
hungry and more desperate so will ignore the dangers of close contact that
keeps healthy foxes at a fair distance from humans....

Jill Bowis

Gjest

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 aug 2006 20:25:03

Sunday, 27 August, 2006


Dear James, et al.,

Thurstan Banaster and Thurstan Bisset were not the same individual.
Aside from the chronological and evident name conflicts, the lands of
Thurstan Banaster were divided among his co-heirs, including the issue
of his daughter Maud by William de Hastings (see 3 generation pedigree
given below). If Maud had surviving male issue by a prior marriage,
the history of the Hastings family (and others) would have been
noticeably different. This appears to be an erroneous conflation
in Mr. Boyer's book.

Cheers,

John *



1 Thurstan de Banastre
----------------------------------------

of Munslow and Aston, co. Salop and Little Appleby, co. Leics.[1]

witness to charters of Ranulf, Earl of Chester ca. 1150[2]

' Thurstano Banaster ', witness [together with Geoffrey le Despenser,
Robert Basset Hugh Wake and others] to grant by Richard Bacun, kinsman
of Ranulf, Earl of Chester ["Ranulphi Comitis Cestriae avunculi mei"]
granting his manor of Roucester to the Augustinian monks, ca. 1153
[HSP 18:160, Vis. Chester (1580), p. 160[3]]

a charter dated c. 1183, from G[erard de Pucella] bishop of Coventry
to the monks of the priory of Coventry, confirmed grants of land and
other rights to the priory and stated,
'.. No body was to be buried in the churchyards of Anesti, Sulft',
Wica and Alleslea [Allesley], which had been dedicated during the
civil war for the refuge of the poor at the request of Ranulph
Earl of Chester and Thurstan Banaster, and by allowance of Richard
the bishop and his chapter, but all bodies with the usual benefits
were to be borne to the mother church of Coventry, according to the
charters of bishop Roger [de Clinton], the Earl of Chester and
Thurstan Banaster. Those persons dying within the bishopric who
chose to be buried at Coventry should be buried there without
hindrance, and any devises which they might make should be allowed
to the monastery saving the parochial rights of the churches whence
they came.' - A2A, Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office:
Gregory of Stivichall [DR10/1 - DR10/467], DOCUMENTS OF TITLE,
DEEDS AND PAPERS: Warwickshire, Coventry [DR10/258 ][4]


Children: Maud (-<1222)
Margery


1.1 Maud de Banastre
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Jun 1222[1]

'Matild' Banastr'[5]
coheiress of her father

her inheritance included the manors of Munslow and Aston, co.
Salop (held in chief) [Eyton, Vol. V, pp. 132-133][1]

Spouse: William de Hastings, 'dapifer' of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury
Death: bef 1183[1]
Father: Hugh de Hastings, of Aston Flamville, co. Leics. (-<1152)
Mother: Erneburga de Flamville

Children: Henry (<1168-1194)
William (-<1226)


1.1.1 William de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 28 Jan 1226[1]

of Aston-Flamville, co. Leics., and Munslow and Aston, co. Salop
younger son, heir of brother Henry

mandate to the sheriff of Shropshire to deliver seisin to 'Will's de
Hasting' ' following his fine for his inheritance at Aston, co. Salop
as heir of 'Matild' Banastr' mater predicti Willi ', Westminster,
17 June 1222 [Excerpta I:87][5](see also Eyton)[1]

hereditary steward of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury, Suffolk
he held '5 knights'-fees under the Abbey, viz. 3 in Lidgate, Blunham,
and Herlinge, and 2 in Tibenham and Gissing.' [Eyton V:139][1]

(could not be elder brother, as he was alive after 1182 based on
wife's prob. birth, ca. 1175 or later)

'proferred 100 merks for his Relief of the lands and Serjeantry of
the said Henry, and 100 merks more for the King's Favour in regard
that he did not then accompany the King into Normandy.' [Eyton V:138,
citing Dugdale and Rot. Pip. 6 Ric. I, Norf. and Suff.][1]

in rebellion against King John, as of 10 April 1216 (Farrer HKF II:80,
citing King John's orders concerning William's lands and
castles: R. Lit. Claus. i, 260, 279b)

'In August 1216, Hastinges gave hostages for his fidelity and
returned to allegiance. In 1224 William de Hastinges knt.
presented to the church of Nailstone,..' (Farrer HKF II:80,
citing R. Lit. Claus. i. 282b, and Reg. H. de Welles, ii. 298)[6]

Spouse: Margaret le Bigod[7]
Father: Roger le Bigod, Earl of Norfolk (-<1221)
Mother: Ida de Tosny [ "the Countess Ida" ]

Children: Sir Henry (<1206-<1250)
Ida, m. 1) Stephen de Segrave


1.2 Margery de Banastre
----------------------------------------

coheiress of her father: her purparty included Little Appleby,
co. Leics. [see below]

'Margaret the mother of Quenilda;...
'Quenilda's mother was daughter of Thurstan Banastre.' Farrer,
HKF II:57 (citing Leics.Arch.Soc. xi, 428)[6]

Spouse: Richard fitz Roger, of Woodplumpton

Children: Maud, m. Robert de Stockport
Avice, m. William de Millom
Quenilda, m. 1) Jordan de Thornhill
Margaret
Amuria


1. The Rev. R. W. Eyton, "Antiquities of Shropshire," London: John
Russell Smith, 1855, Vol. 5 - p. 242 (Ludlow), pp. 132 (Banaster)
and 133-142 (Barony of Hastings), Vol. 6 - pp. 350-359 (Meole Brace
and de Bracy).
2. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul
2, 2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville), full title: Domesday
Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons, Occurring in English
Documents 1066-1166: Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum.
3. "The Visitation of Cheshire," Harleian Series, Vol. 18, Vol. 18,
pp. 43 et seq. [Brereton of Malpas].
4. "Access to Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
5. Charles Roberts, ed., "Excerpta ex Rotulis Finium," The
Commissioners of the Public Records of the Kingdom, Vol I
(1216-1246), 1835, full title:
Excerpta e Rotulis Finium in Turri Londinensi asservatis,
Henrico Tertio Rege, A.D. 1216-1272.
6. William Farrer, Litt.D., "Honors and Knights' Fees," London:
Spottiswoode, Ballantyne & Co., Ltd., 1924 (3 vols.), Vol I:,
Vol II: Chester; Huntingdon, Vol III: Arundel, Eudes the Sewer,
Warenne.
7. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr &
David Faris).

* John P. Ravilious

Gjest

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 aug 2006 21:50:03

Dear John R,
William Comyn`s wife was a Maud Bisset ?

Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 27 aug 2006 22:38:39

In message of 27 Aug, Therav3@aol.com wrote:

<snip>

1.1 Maud de Banastre
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Jun 1222[1]

'Matild' Banastr'[5]
coheiress of her father

her inheritance included the manors of Munslow and Aston, co.
Salop (held in chief) [Eyton, Vol. V, pp. 132-133][1]

Spouse: William de Hastings, 'dapifer' of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury
Death: bef 1183[1]
Father: Hugh de Hastings, of Aston Flamville, co. Leics. (-<1152)
Mother: Erneburga de Flamville

This William de Hastings is the one mentioned in Keats-Rohan's "Domesday
Descendants" as "William filius Hugonis de Hastings" on p. 507.

In the same paragraph she said that in 1235/6 his land in Tormarton were
held by "the wife of Osbert Giffard, the wife of William de Hastings and
Geoffrey Martel appears that his lands" and "in 1242 Henry de Hastings
held one fee at Congerstone, Leicestershire, of Earl Ferrers"; this
makes it likely that William and Henry de Hastings were descendants of
this William.

Children: Henry (<1168-1194)
William (-<1226)


1.1.1 William de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 28 Jan 1226[1]

of Aston-Flamville, co. Leics., and Munslow and Aston, co. Salop
younger son, heir of brother Henry

mandate to the sheriff of Shropshire to deliver seisin to 'Will's de
Hasting' ' following his fine for his inheritance at Aston, co. Salop
as heir of 'Matild' Banastr' mater predicti Willi ', Westminster,
17 June 1222 [Excerpta I:87][5](see also Eyton)[1]

hereditary steward of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury, Suffolk
he held '5 knights'-fees under the Abbey, viz. 3 in Lidgate, Blunham,
and Herlinge, and 2 in Tibenham and Gissing.' [Eyton V:139][1]

(could not be elder brother, as he was alive after 1182 based on
wife's prob. birth, ca. 1175 or later)

'proferred 100 merks for his Relief of the lands and Serjeantry of
the said Henry, and 100 merks more for the King's Favour in regard
that he did not then accompany the King into Normandy.' [Eyton V:138,
citing Dugdale and Rot. Pip. 6 Ric. I, Norf. and Suff.][1]

in rebellion against King John, as of 10 April 1216 (Farrer HKF II:80,
citing King John's orders concerning William's lands and
castles: R. Lit. Claus. i, 260, 279b)

'In August 1216, Hastinges gave hostages for his fidelity and
returned to allegiance. In 1224 William de Hastinges knt.
presented to the church of Nailstone,..' (Farrer HKF II:80,
citing R. Lit. Claus. i. 282b, and Reg. H. de Welles, ii. 298)[6]

Spouse: Margaret le Bigod[7]
Father: Roger le Bigod, Earl of Norfolk (-<1221)
Mother: Ida de Tosny [ "the Countess Ida" ]

Children: Sir Henry (<1206-<1250)
Ida, m. 1) Stephen de Segrave

The hereditary steward of the abbot of St Edmundsbury, Suffolk and the
holder of fees of Bury at Lidgate, Blunham is indeed given by
Keats-Rohan in the same book as "William de Hastings Dispensator" and
also on the same page, 507. However she clearly says both that this
William was the son of William fitz Robert of Hastings and that the
latter married Helewis de Guerres. She does not give the wife for
William the Dispensator.

How do we sort this one out?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 27 aug 2006 23:03:58

I come out as quite close to Mahatma Gandhi and His Holiness The Dalai Lama,
in the Left-Libertarian quadrant of the chart.

Also not far from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, my favorite composer. <g>

Deeeeeelightful & Reassuring!

Life Is Sweet!

Not surprising at all, since DSH is a True LIBERAL -- NOT one of the phony
American Angry-Left "Liberals" -- Such As Pogue Gans.

Try it yourself and see how you come out:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Be Advised That The Originators Of _The Political Compass_ Are Brits -- A
Journalist & An Academic.

"The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university
counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history. They're
indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their
ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of
diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better idea
of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they
keep."

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Deus Vult

ray o'hara

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av ray o'hara » 27 aug 2006 23:31:38

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3HoIg.405$15.4646@eagle.america.net...
I come out as quite close to Mahatma Gandhi and His Holiness The Dalai
Lama,
in the Left-Libertarian quadrant of the chart.

Also not far from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, my favorite composer. <g

Deeeeeelightful & Reassuring!

Life Is Sweet!

Not surprising at all, since DSH is a True LIBERAL -- NOT one of the phony
American Angry-Left "Liberals" -- Such As Pogue Gans.

Try it yourself and see how you come out:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Be Advised That The Originators Of _The Political Compass_ Are Brits -- A
Journalist & An Academic.

"The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university
counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history.
They're
indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their
ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of
diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better
idea
of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they
keep."

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Deus Vult




the questions are phrased so that that will be the most common result.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Holmes Tells Us His Father Was A Bigamist

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 aug 2006 00:01:34

Recte:

We certainly have some low-life, ragamuffin trash on the
soc.genealogy.britain newsgroup.

Recently, it was Roy Stockdill telling us he is a bastard.

Now, Alan Holmes tells us HIS father was a bigamist.

Hilarious!

DSH

"Alan Holmes" <alan.holmes@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:mhnIg.26452$ri1.20512@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
"Jenny M Benson" <News@cedarbank81.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:UB6KG7Mmhb8EFwZT@cedarbank81.fsnet.co.uk...

Can anyone suggest why my Great Aunt's father-in-law appears to have
married twice, to the same lady, 12 months (-ish) apart and in different
districts?

My father commited [sic] bigamy by marrying someone whilst still being
married to my mother, but it wasn't one sided, [sic] the woman who [sic]
he married was already married to someone else as well, so she was a
bigamist as well!

Alan

Hilarious!

I can SEE why you Brits NEED a Class System to sort out the ragamuffins and
tarts from the toffs and swells.

Deucedly Quintessential...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 aug 2006 03:20:56

Hilarious!

"Hippo" must be close to his Good German Buddy, Gerhard Schröder, too.

<http://www.politicalcompass.org/>

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 28 aug 2006 04:36:06

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Hilarious!

"Hippo" must be close to his Good German Buddy, Gerhard Schröder, too.

Nope, I'm more conservative and less authoritarian. -the Troll

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 aug 2006 04:44:04

Look at where Schröder is on the chart.

You are not far from him.

DSH

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f4p587vecch1c@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Hilarious!

"Hippo" must be close to his Good German Buddy, Gerhard Schröder, too.

Nope, I'm more conservative and less authoritarian. -the Troll

Gjest

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 aug 2006 05:11:02

Sunday, 27 August, 2006


Dear Tim,

The problem appears to be that the office of hereditary steward of St.
Edmundsbury (and that of despenser, evidently appended to it) did not pass in
anything approaching a direct line, at least until the death of William de
Hastings (d. bef 28 Jan 1226; husband of Margaret le Bigod). Following his
death, his son Henry de Hastings held Ashill by serjeanty of the king's
despenser [1226/8 and 1236, as given in DD 507, citing Fees, 387, 402, 592].

The following chart reflects the relationships of the 'hereditary'
stewards of St. Edmundsbury, starting with Maurice fitz Walter. He was
succeeded by his nephew Ralph de Hastings <2>, then successively by HIS
nephew William (fitz William fitz Robert, <III> below), HIS cousin William
(fitz Hugh de Hastings, <IV> below), and then HIS nephew Henry de
Hastings <V>. I mark Thomas de Hastings with the number <V> in the chart
below, as he was involved in securing his nephew Henry's rights as steward:
according to my notes,

" On 1 April 1182 Thomas de Hastings appeared before the Abbot of
St. Edmund's, leading 'his nephew Henry de Hastings', who was not
yet a knight, and demanded for him his hereditary office of dapifer
of the Abbey . " [Kay Allen, citing Jocelin de Brakelond; Eyton;
and Clark]

I will provide a more detailed pedigree in a followup post, providing the
documentation I have to date on the matter.

Cheers,

John *



Walter fitz Other = Beatrice
castellan of Windsor, d. aft 1099 I
<tenant at Domesday, 1086> I
________________________________________I_______________________________
I I I I I ___________ I
William Gerald Rainald I I I I I
constable castellan _____I Maurice = Edith Robert (fitz = NN
of of Windsor I I Walter) de I
Windsor = Nesta Hugh I Hastings I
I ________I of Little Easton I
I I I
V Robert ____________________I
___________________________I_____________
I I I
Ralph de Hastings William de Hastings Hugh de Hastings
<II> despenser and steward of Little Easton of Eston Flamville
d.s.p. aft 1158 = 1) NN = 2) Juliana = Erneburga
______________I I de Flamville
I ________I__ _______I________
I I I I I I
Robert de Hastings William <sisters> William Thomas
of Little Easton <III> <IV> <V>
d. ca. 1190 despenser despenser I
I fl. 1164/5 and steward I
I = Maud de V
I Banastre a quo
2) Godfrey = Alice ______________I_____ HASTINGS
de Louvain I I I of
Gissing
I Henry William
V <V> <VI>
a quo steward steward
LOVAINE d.s.p. 1194 I
of Little Easton I
V
a quo
HASTINGS
of Elsing

Gjest

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 aug 2006 05:35:08

Sunday, 27 August, 2006


Dear Tim (et al.),

Following is the detailed (if not complete) pedigree, from Walter fitz
Other the Domesday tenant (and his son Maurice, first hereditary steward of
the Abbey of St. Edmundsbury, Suffolk) showing the various Hastings lines
involved in the tenure of the stewardship.

Should anyone note any defect or error, or additional documentation that
is pertinent, please advise.

Cheers,

John



1 Walter fitz Other
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1099[1]
Occ: castellan of Windsor

tenant of lands in Berks., Bucks. Middlesex, Hants. and Surrey at Domesday
Book 1086[1]
these land included Eton, co. Bucks.
Keeper of the Great Forest at Windsor

Spouse: Beatrice[1]

Children: William (-ca1160)
Robert
Gerald, castellan of Windsor, m. Nesta ferch Rhys
Rainald
Maurice
Hugh
NN, m. Robert fitz Walter


1.1 Maurice fitz Walter
----------------------------------------

royal dispenser (dispensator)

hereditary steward of the Abbey of St. Edmundsbury, Suffolk[2]

succeeded by his nephew, Ralph de Hastings[3]

Spouse: Edith fitz Walter [sister of Robert de Hastings] [3]
Father: Walter the Deacon
Mother: NN


1.2 NN de Windsor[1]
----------------------------------------

Spouse: Robert de Hastings, of Little Easton
Death: bef 1129[3]
Father: Walter the Deacon, of Little Easton
Mother: NN

Children: Ralph (->1158)
William (-<1167)
Hugh (-<1152)


1.2.1 Ralph de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1158, d.s.p.[2]

royal dispenser (successor to his uncle Maurice fitz Walter)[3]

also his successor as hereditary steward of the Abbey of St. Edmundsbury,
Suffolk (confirmed by charter from King Henry II)[2]

'His heir and successor as dapifer was his nephew William fitz William
[sic] de Hastings, who was confirmed in his position by Henry II in 1164'
(DD, p. 505)[4]


1.2.2a William de Hastings*
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1167[5]

of Little Easton, Essex[5]
had livery of his father's lands, 1128[3]

he m. lstly NN,
2ndly Juliana 'filia John fitz Waleran'

re: his second wife, Juliana:

she m. lstly William de Hastings (evidently 2nd wife),
2ndly Robert Doisnel[3]

identified in the Pipe Roll of 30 Hen I (1130):
"Essex..
Juliana, wife of William of Hastings, owes £6 from old
aid of knights from the fief of Waleran, her grandfather..."[6]

re: John fitz Waleran, father of Juliana:

of Herstmonceux and Warberton, Sussex

'John's heir was his daughter Juliana, wife in 1129 of William of
Hastings (PR 31 Henry I, 58). She was subsequently the wife of Robert
Doisnel, a royal marshal whose daughter Juliana was married to Henry
II's servant William fitz Aldelin and died without issue. In 1199 her
heirs in both the land of John fitz Waleran and the marshal serjeanty
held by Robert Doisnel were William of Warberton and Ingelran de
Monceux, whose rights derived from his wife Idonea de Monceux
(Farrer, HKF iii, 376). William, the senior heir, and Idonea, were
probably descendants of the elder Juliana's first marriage to William
of Hastings. Part of the inheritance they shared was five fees at
Herstmonceaux and Warberton held of the count of Eu in the Rape of
Hastings.'[3]

NOTE: Juliana Doisnel was the daughter of Juliana by her second husband,
Robert Doisnel[3]


Spouse: NN [1st wife]

Children: Robert (-ca1190)


1.2.2a.1 Robert de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1190[5]

of Little Easton, Essex[5]

~not a descendant of Juliana, but evidently of another wife (the heirs
of Juliana filia John were as noted elsewhere)[3]

Children: Alice


1.2.2a.1.1 Alice de Hastings[7]
----------------------------------------

heiress of Little Easton, Essex

she m. 1stly Ralph de Cornhill,
2ndly Godfrey de Louvain

cf. Eye cartulary II:32[8]

re: her husband, Godfrey de Louvain:

custodian of the castle of Eye in Suffolk[7], or
'seneschal of the honour of Eye' for his brother Henry of Brabant, lord
of same[1],[8]

in the entourage of his brother Duke Henry of Brabant, attending the
coronation of King John of England, 27 May 1199[8]

cf. ES I Band I.2 Tafel 237 (Die Herzoge von Brabant)[9]

Spouse: Godfrey of Louvain
Death: bef 26 Apr 1226[1]
Father: Godfrey III of Louvain (-1190)
Mother: Imaine of Loos
Marr: ca 1199[7]

Children: Matthew (-<1258)
John


1.2.2b William de Hastings* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: Juliana [2nd wife]
Father: John fitz Waleran (-<1130)
Marr: bef 1130[3]

Children: William
NN
NN


1.2.2b.1 William de Hastings
----------------------------------------

despenser to King Henry II

confirmed in the office of Ralph de Hastings his uncle ('patruus') as
steward of Bury St. Edmunds, 1164/5[4]


1.2.2b.2 NN de Hastings
----------------------------------------

~the mother of Idonea, wife of Ingram de Monceaux was
evidently the child of Juliana 'filia Johanni' :
1. Idonea was coheiress of Juliana Doisnel together
with William de Warberton[3]; to have equal right
as coheir with William, Idonea must have been
either a daughter of Juliana, or daughter of a
daughter of Juliana (and William the son of
a daughter of Juliana, other than the mother of
Idonea)

Spouse: NN

Children: Idonea


1.2.2b.2.1 Idonea
----------------------------------------

'one of the heiresses of John fitz Waleran,..' (DD 590)

she and her son Robert were benefactors of Robertsbridge abbey (DD 590,
citing Facsimiles of Charters in the British Museum, 61)[4]

Spouse: Sir Ingram de Monceaux
Death: aft 1225[10]
Father: Sir Alan de Monceaux (->1181)
Mother: Matilda
Marr: bef 1199[4],[3]

Children: Sir Robert (->1272)
Waleran


1.2.2b.3 NN de Hastings
----------------------------------------

coheiress (in her issue) of Juliana Doisnel[3]

Spouse: NN

Children: William


1.2.2b.3.1 William de Warberton
----------------------------------------


1.2.3 Hugh de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1152[12]

of Aston Flamville, co. Leics. & c.

he had the manors of Eston [Aston Flamville], Sketchley, Stapleton & c. as
the maritagium of his wife[12]: he
' .. accounted in Leicestershire in 1129/30 to have the land of the niece
('nepta') of Robert de Flamville.' DD, p. 505[4]

noted in the Pipe Rolls in 1130 as having
'accounted for 90 merks and 2 Destriers, being the whole or the balance
of a Fine which he had given to the King "for having the land and the
niece of Robert de Flamenvil." ' [Eyton, Vol. V, p. 136 citing Rot. Pip.
31 Hen. I, p. 87][2]

Spouse: Erneburga de Flamville
Father: Hugh de Flamville
Marr: ca 1130[2]

Children: William (-<1183)
Thomas


1.2.3.1 William de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1183[2]

of Aston-Flamville, co. Leics. & c.

royal steward
'dapifer' of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury

' Willelmus de Hasting, v milites.', held land by the service of 5
knights' fees in Norfolk of the Honour of St. Edmund, 1166 [Red Book
of the Exchequer I:392[13]]

King Henry II confirmed the stewardship of St. Edmund's ' as it had been
held by his paternal uncle, Ralf,...' ca. 1166[12]; further, the King
'confirmed to William de Hastings his inheritance which came from his
grandfather, William de Hastings *, and from Hugh Hastings his father,
in the time of Henry I, and also the lands given to Robert de Flamville
by Robert de Limesi, Bishop of Coventry, which came from his mother
Ernberga de Flamville.' (Kay Allen, citing Eyton's Shropshire, V: 137,
151)[12]

* -evidently an error for Robert de Hastings.

'Willmo de Hasting', witness together with Joscelin de Baliol and
Richard de Lucy to a charter of Henry II restoring the lands of
Guy son of Tece, dated Durham (before 1169). C. Phillips [Transcript of
Argentein evidences, British Library Harleian MS 6072, fo 17.][14]

made a gift of land to the Templars at Templehurst, West Riding, co. Yorks.
together with uncle Ralf[12]

Spouse: Maud de Banastre
Death: bef 17 Jun 1222[2]
Father: Thurstan de Banastre

Children: Henry (<1168-1194)
William (-<1226)


1.2.3.1.1 Henry de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Birth: bef 1168[2]
Death: 1194, d.s.p.[12],[2]

elder son and heir

"On 1 April 1182 Thomas de Hastings appeared before the Abbot of St.
Edmund's, leading 'his nephew Henry de Hastings', who was not yet a
knight, and demanded for him his hereditary office of dapifer of the
Abbey . " (Kay Allen, citing Jocelin de Brakelond; Eyton; and Clark)[12]

participant in the Third Crusade with King Richard (possibly died on
Crusade)[2]


1.2.3.1.2 William de Hastings
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 28 Jan 1226[2]

of Aston-Flamville, co. Leics., and Munslow and Aston, co. Salop
younger son, heir of brother Henry

mandate to the sheriff of Shropshire to deliver seisin to 'Will's de
Hasting' ' following his fine for his inheritance at Aston, co. Salop
as heir of 'Matild' Banastr' mater predicti Willi ', Westminster, 17
June 1222 [Excerpta I:87][15](see also Eyton)[2]

hereditary steward of the abbey of St. Edmundsbury, Suffolk
he held '5 knights'-fees under the Abbey, viz. 3 in Lidgate, Blunham,
and Herlinge, and 2 in Tibenham and Gissing.' [Eyton, Vol. V, p. 139][2]

(could not be elder brother, as he was alive after 1182 based on wife's
prob. birth, ca. 1175 or later - J. Ravilious)

'proferred 100 merks for his Relief of the lands and Serjeantry of the
said Henry, and 100 merks more for the King's Favour in regard that he
did not then accompany the King into Normandy.' [Eyton, Vol. V, p. 138,
citing Dugdale and Rot. Pip. 6 Ric. I, Norf. and Suff.][2]

in rebellion against King John, as of 10 April 1216 (Farrer HKF II:80,
citing King John's orders concerning William's lands and castles: R.
Lit. Claus. i, 260, 279b)

'In August 1216, Hastinges gave hostages for his fidelity and returned
to allegiance. In 1224 William de Hastinges knt. presented to the
church of Nailstone,..' (Farrer HKF II:80, citing R. Lit. Claus. i. 282b,
and Reg. H. de Welles, ii. 298)[16]

Spouse: Margaret le Bigod[17]
Father: Roger le Bigod (-<1221)
Mother: Ida de Tosny

Children: Sir Henry (<1206-<1250)
Ida (-<1288)


1.2.3.1.2.1 Sir Henry de Hastings[18],[19]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 9 Aug 1250[1]
Birth: bef 1206[16]

knight, of Ashill, co. Norfolk and Nailstone, co. Leics.[1]

minor at his father's death: re: his father, Farrer wrote following the
death (before Jan 1225/6),
' ...the custody of the land and heir was committed in 1225
to Osbert Giffard for 200 marks. In the following year
Henry son and heir of William de Hastinges gave 50 marks
for his relief and had livery of his lands in Salop,
Bedfordshire, Norfolk and Suffolk.' Farrer, HKF II:80
(cites R. Lit. Claus. i 618b, 644, and Excerpta e R. Fin. i. 137)[16]

held Ashill by serjeanty of the king's despenser (dispensarius), 1226/8
and 1236 (DD 507, citing Fees, 387, 402, 592)[4]

held one knight's fee of Hugh d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel at Nailstone,
co. Leics., 1235-36 (HKF II:80, citing Bk. of Fees, 516)[16]

held one knight's fee of Ferrers, Earl of Derby at Congerstone, co.
Leics., 1242 (DD 507, citing Fees, 946)[4]

Spouse: Ada of Huntingdon[18],[19]
Death: aft 2 Nov 1241[1]
Father: David of Scotland (-1219)
Mother: Maud of Chester (1171-ca1233)
Marr: bef 7 Jun 1237[1]

Children: Henry (>1232-<1268)
Margery
Hilaire (->1284)


1.2.3.2 Thomas de Hastings
----------------------------------------

made demand for hereditary rights of nephew Henry de Hastings, 1182[12]

Children: Hugh [evidently ancestor of HASTINGS of Gissing]


1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint, 1982
(Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great
Britain and the United Kingdom.
2. "Antiquities of Shropshire," The Rev. R. W. Eyton, London: John Russell
Smith, 1855, Vol. 5 - p. 242 (Ludlow), pp. 132 (Banaster) and 133-142
(Barony of Hastings), Vol. 6 - pp. 350-359 (Meole Brace and de Bracy).
3. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Additions and Corrections to Sanders’s Baronies
Prosopon, Number 11 (July 2000),"
http://www.linacre.ox.ac.uk/research/Prosop
David E. Thornton, editor, Prosopon 11 (July 2000), The Unit for
Prosopographic Research, Linacre College, Oxford, Little Easton (p. 130),
Aveley (p. 2); Brattleby (p. 109) ; North Cadbury (p. 68), above are
emendations to Ian Sander's work, English Baronies (1960).
4. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul 2,
2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville), full title: Domesday Descendants:
A Prosopography of Persons, Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166:
Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum.
5. Alan B. Wilson, "Hastings Pedigree," May 9, 1999,
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com.
6. "PIPE ROLL OF 31 HENRY I (1130),"
http://www.constitution.org/sech/sech_025.txt
includes citations from the Pipe Roll 31 Hen I (1129/30), also from other
'miscellaneous' rolls: e.g. 5 Steph (1139), re: Hugh d'Auberville.
8. R. Allen Brown, ed., "Eye Priory Cartulary and Charters," Suffolk Records
Society, Suffolk Charters (vol. XII), courtesy Ancestry.com
http://www.ancestry.com
9. Detlev Schewennicke, "Europäische Stammtafeln: Neue Folge," Frankfurt
am Main: Vittorio Klostermann, 1999 [4th series], Band I.2 - Premysliden,
Askanier, Herzoge von Lothringen, die Hauser Hessen, Wurttemberg und
Zahringen, First series by Wilhelm Karl, Prinz zu Isenburg, continued
second series by Frank, Baron Freytag von Loringhoven.
10. George Poulson, Esq., "The History and Antiquities of the Seigniory of
Holderness," Hull: Thomas Topping, and W. Pickering, 1840 (Vol I)
1841 (Vol II), pp. 197-198, pedigree of Hilton of Swine.
11. William Farrer, Hon.D.Litt., Editor, "Early Yorkshire Charters,"
Ballantyne, Hanson & Co., Edinburgh, 1915-1916, Vol. II (1915)
Vol. III (1916), Vol. XII [the family of Constable of Flamborough],
courtesy Rosie Bevan, Vol. V [Manfield fee, pp. 53-58 ], courtesy
Rosie Bevan, <Re: Avice de Tanfield, wife of Robert Marmion>, SGM, 26
Feb 2002.
12. Kay Allen, AG, "Hastings Pedigree," Aug 24, 1998,
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com.
13. Hubert Hall, F.S.A., ed., "The Red Book of the Exchequer," London:
Printed for Her Majesty's Stationery Office by Eyre and Spottiswoode,
1896, Vols. I, II.
14. "Medieval Genealogy," http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/
various dates, website of Chris Phillips, citing and transcribing
various sources for medieval genealogy, including a section of
Corrections to Complete Peerage.
15. Charles Roberts, ed., "Excerpta ex Rotulis Finium," The Commissioners
of the Public Records of the Kingdom, Vol I (1216-1246), 1835, full
title: Excerpta e Rotulis Finium in Turri Londinensi asservatis,
Henrico Tertio Rege, A.D. 1216-1272.
16. William Farrer, Litt.D., "Honors and Knights' Fees," London: Spottiswoode,
Ballantyne & Co., Ltd., 1924 (3 vols.), Vol I:, Vol II: Chester;
Huntingdon, Vol III: Arundel, Eudes the Sewer, Warenne.
17. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215," Baltimore:
Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David Faris).
18. Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., "The Scots Peerage," Edinburgh: David
Douglas, 1904-1914 (9 volumes).
19. "The Visitation of Yorkshire," Harleian Soc., William Flower, Esquire,
Norroy King of Arms, Harleian Series, Vol. 16, Mitchell and Hughes,
Printers, London, 1881, pp. 154-156: pedigree of Hastings of Elsing
('Hastynges..' of Fenwick, co. Yorks.), 'The Visitation of Yorkshire in
the Years 1563 and 1564'.
20. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record Office,
Henry III. A.D. 1247-1258, London: for the Public Record Office.
21. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent,
1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
22. "Clan Stirling," http://www.clanstirling.org/uploads/ragmanrolls.pdf
provides .pdf file of the names of those who swore allegiance to Edward
I of England at Berwick, 1296 (the 'Ragman Rolls').
23. W. A. Copinger, M.A., LL.D., F.S.A., "The Manors of Suffolk: Notes on
Their History and Devolution," London: T. F. Unwin, 1905-1911, 7 Vols.
24. Douglas Richardson, "CP Addition: Dispensation of John de Hastings &
Isabel de Valence," Sept 4, 2003, GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com, cites
Original Papal Documents in England & Wales (1198–1304), p. 351,
dispensation for marriage of John de Hastings and Isabel de Valence.
25. "Calendar of the Patent Rolls," preserved in the Public Record Office,
Edward I. A.D. 1292-1301, London: for the Public Record Office.
26. Brian Timms, "The Caerlaverock Roll," an occasional roll of arms of those
having fought in the siege of Caerlaverock, July 1300,
http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/caerlaverockK.html
This is an occasional roll, listing those present in the siege of
Caerlaverock, The original blazon is from Gerard G Brault, "Eight
Thirteenth Century Rolls of Arms", Pennsylvania State University Press,
1973.
27. "Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516,"
http://www.histparl.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/
extracted 5 Nov 2001, Wiltshire [Bassett], Yorkshire [Salvain] -
North Duffield.
28. Brian Timms, "The Barons' Letter in reply to the Pope, February 1301,"
http://www.briantimms.com/baronsletter/background.htm
Seven earls and sixty five barons sealed the letter, which is now in
the Public Record Office.
29. G. W. S. Barrow, "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm of
Scotland," Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 28 aug 2006 06:05:37

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Look at where Schröder is on the chart.

You are not far from him.

More conservative and less authoritarian as I said. -the Troll

Ken Ozanne

Re: Two Maud Banesters

Legg inn av Ken Ozanne » 28 aug 2006 06:15:03

James, John, others,
Scots Peerage Vol 1 p 504 identifies the two Mauds. Is there a website
for corrections?

Best,
Ken

On 28/8/2006 12:29, "GEN-MEDIEVAL-D-request@rootsweb.com"
<GEN-MEDIEVAL-D-request@rootsweb.com> wrote:

From: Jwc1870@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:43:13 EDT
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William Hastings

Dear John R, Claudius, Will, Douglas and others,
In
Carl Boyer III`s book Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans p 58 He
indicates that William Comyn died before 1140 and his wife Maud, daughter of
Thurstan Banester or Basset married 2nd William de Hastings. She is known to
have
had four sons of this marriage, William, Richard, Osbert and Walter Comyn. We
know Richard recieved a grant of land in about 1144 (Northallerton Castle)
perhaps in conjunction with his marriage to Hextilda of Tynedale. As He
recieved
a grant of land, We know He was born not later than 1123. If He were the
oldest son or a twin, then his mother was born not later than 1109. In Douglas
Richardson`s Magna Carta Ancestry under Elsing, We find William de Hastings
b
abt 1163 -d 1226, son of William Hastings and Maud, daughter of Thurstan
Banister recieved livery of his mother`s manor of Aston. Warwickshire in 1222.
If
the lady had just died, She could be no less than 113 years old, which is
incredibly unlikely. Unless Maud Banester the wife of Comyn was the aunt of
Maud
Banester the wife of Hastings, each the daughter of a successive Thurston
Banester, it`s unlikely the two familes were closely related.
Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 aug 2006 07:15:12

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About Them --
Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f4ud32d073jf6@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

Look at where Schröder is on the chart.

You are not far from him.

More conservative and less authoritarian as I said. -the Troll

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 28 aug 2006 10:41:47

In message of 28 Aug, Therav3@aol.com wrote:

The problem appears to be that the office of hereditary steward of St.
Edmundsbury (and that of despenser, evidently appended to it) did not pass in
anything approaching a direct line, at least until the death of William de
Hastings (d. bef 28 Jan 1226; husband of Margaret le Bigod). Following his
death, his son Henry de Hastings held Ashill by serjeanty of the king's
despenser [1226/8 and 1236, as given in DD 507, citing Fees, 387, 402, 592].

The following chart reflects the relationships of the 'hereditary'
stewards of St. Edmundsbury, starting with Maurice fitz Walter. He was
succeeded by his nephew Ralph de Hastings <2>, then successively by HIS
nephew William (fitz William fitz Robert, <III> below), HIS cousin William
(fitz Hugh de Hastings, <IV> below), and then HIS nephew Henry de
Hastings <V>. I mark Thomas de Hastings with the number <V> in the chart
below, as he was involved in securing his nephew Henry's rights as steward:
according to my notes,

" On 1 April 1182 Thomas de Hastings appeared before the Abbot of
St. Edmund's, leading 'his nephew Henry de Hastings', who was not
yet a knight, and demanded for him his hereditary office of dapifer
of the Abbey . " [Kay Allen, citing Jocelin de Brakelond; Eyton;
and Clark]

I will provide a more detailed pedigree in a followup post, providing the
documentation I have to date on the matter.

Cheers,

John *



Walter fitz Other = Beatrice
castellan of Windsor, d. aft 1099 I
tenant at Domesday, 1086> I
________________________________________I_______________________________
I I I I I ___________ I
William Gerald Rainald I I I I I
constable castellan _____I Maurice = Edith Robert (fitz = NN
of of Windsor I I Walter) de I
Windsor = Nesta Hugh I Hastings I
I ________I of Little Easton I
I I I
V Robert ____________________I
___________________________I_____________
I I I
Ralph de Hastings William de Hastings Hugh de Hastings
II> despenser and steward of Little Easton of Eston Flamville
d.s.p. aft 1158 = 1) NN = 2) Juliana = Erneburga
______________I I de Flamville
I ________I__ _______I________
I I I I I I
Robert de Hastings William <sisters> William Thomas
of Little Easton <III> <IV> <V
d. ca. 1190 despenser despenser I
I fl. 1164/5 and steward I
I = Maud de V
I Banastre a quo
2) Godfrey = Alice ______________I_____ HASTINGS
de Louvain I I I of
Gissing
I Henry William
V <V> <VI
a quo steward steward
LOVAINE d.s.p. 1194 I
of Little Easton I
V
a quo
HASTINGS
of Elsing


Obviously the above may well be right, nut it then means that one or two
bits in Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants are wrong. Here is the full
text she wrote about the William (III) Dispencer above:

Son of William fitz Robert of Hastings, lord of Little Easton
(d.c.1162). Heir of his uncle Ralph de Hastings (d.c.1163). Royal
dispencer to Henry, who, in 1164/5, confirmed him in the office of his
paternal uncle (patruus) Ralph I of Hastings as steward of Bury St
Edmunds, an office the said Ralph had inherited from his maternal
uncle (avunculus) Maurice of Windsor. In 1166 he held five fees of
Bury St Edmunds, and half a fee de novo at Compton, Surrey, of his
kinsman William of Windsor. In 1200 William de Hastings held five
fees of Bury at Lidgate, Blunham (Bedfordshire), West Harling,
Tibenham and Gissing, in Norfolk (Jocelyn of Brakelond, 120). Before
1162 it is difficult to distinguish William from his father in public
records. Around 1224 his _descendant_ [my emphasis] William de
Hastings held the serjeanty of the king's dispencer ('tenet per
sergentiam dispensarie regis') in Norfolk and Suffolk (Fees, 346). In
1226/8 and 1236 Henry de Hastings answered for the same serjeanty at
Ashill in Wayland hundred, Norfolk (Fees, 387, 402, 593)

She concluded with this list of references: (I have had to alter the
layout slightly as she uses italics a lot in this section for which I
have substituted quote marks)

Douglas, 'Feudal Documents from Bury St Edmunds', no 89; Gervers,
'Cartulary of Knights St John', II (1996), no 10, Pipe Roll 10 Henry
II, 10-sm; Pipe Roll 11 Henry II, 63-dssm, 64-dssm, 70-ox, 75-bk; Pipe
Roll 12 Henry II, 99-dssm; 'Red Book of the Exchequer', ed Hall
(1897), pp. 315-16, 392-94, 403-7; Stenton, 'Documents illustrative of
Danelaw' (1920), no. 63.

While she does have, as in my earlier post, articles on William IV and
his father Hugo, nowhere does she say that William IV was dispencer nor
that Hugo was the son of Robert of Hastings.

Further she has separately a William de Hastings who m. Juliana daughter
of John fitz Waleran. This William she says was the son of Robert of
Hastings. She does not give any wife to the above William the
Dispensator who held that office from 1164/5 to sometime after 1200.

The William de Hastings of Little Easton, son of Robert fitz Walter, she
gives as having married Helewis de Guerres and having at least these
children (citing Cal. of Ancient Deeds, A. 13694):

Robert of Hastings
William of Hastings
Ralph of Hastings
Alexander
John
Beatrice m. (1) Gilbert Carbonel, (2) Wm de Goldingham

She says he was probably also father of Amabilis de Hastings, sister of
William [the Dispensator] and wife successively of Richard fitz Robert
Foliot and of Ralph of Exeter.

Finally she says that Helewis de Guerres m. (2) Gilbert de Picquigny and
then (3) (another) William fitz Robert (Fees, 282) and she was still
alive in the early thirteenth century.

It seems that Eyton and Keats-Rohan give very different pictures of the
various Hastingses. In view of Eyton living very much earlier and thus
with probably much less access to all the documents that are now made
public, I wonder if Eyton can still be relied on. Certainly Keats-Rohan
does not mention Eyton in her account of the Hastingses. She does
mention Sanders, of whom usually she is a great fan and says 'he is
unreliable on this family'.

I have nothing more to offer as I do not have convenient access to the
primary source material that she cites, let alone could I read it in
other then translation.

E&OE for the transcriptions.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Diana Gale Matthiesen

RE: help with Ralph de Toeni

Legg inn av Diana Gale Matthiesen » 28 aug 2006 15:40:03

Thank you, Francisco. I would love to put those spots on my itinerary!

So I'm left wondering what this gentleman was objecting to because it sounds
like Conches was correct in the first place...

Diana

-----Original Message-----
From: francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com
[mailto:francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:52 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: help with Ralph de Toeni

Conches is in Normandy, Conques in the Pyrenées (the mountains in the
Spanish border).
If Ralph de Toeni (Tosny?) was a companion of Willam, it should have
been Conches.
Btw, both beautiful places.

Regards
Francisco


"Diana Gale Matthiesen" escreveu:
Thank you, but is *he* correct? Or was Cokayne right in
the first place? Or
did Spencer misquote Cokayne? (Or did I mis-quote Spencer?
I'll have to
check...)

-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson@aol.com [mailto:WJhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:27 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: help with Ralph de Toeni


In a message dated 8/24/2006 9:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DianaGM@dgmweb.net writes:

j'ai relevé une petite erreur sur le nom d'1 compagnon de
Guillaume le
Conquérant
c'est Ralph de Toéni seigneur de CONCHES et non
seigneur de CONQUES
conches est dans le département de l'EURE en NORMANDIE


A small error with the name of the companion of William
the Conqueror
It is Ralph de Toeni Seigneur de Conches
not Seigneur de Conques

He is saying the place is wrong.







hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 28 aug 2006 19:40:14

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About Them --
Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

Hey, drooling idiot, dictionary definition for political Right (caps are
mine):

" members of a CONSERVATIVE or reactionary political party, or those
opposing extensive political reform."

The cretin doesn't need to use a dictionary for commonly used terms,
you do. -the Troll

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 aug 2006 20:01:09

"Hippo" The Dense STILL doesn't understand the chart.

It measures _Neo-Liberalism_ in the Upper Right Quadrant, as defined in the
instructions and analysis for the test -- NOT "Conservatism".

<http://www.politicalcompass.org/>

The test was designed by BRITS.

"Hippo" needs to study GLADSTONE.

But "Hippo" is so stupid he runs to a dictionary to try to wriggle out of
his Egregious Gaffe, rather than just carefully reading and comprehending
[hard for him] the instructions and analysis for the test -- written by its
CREATORS.

This is what I mean by "The Uneducated Person". "Hippo" is a poster boy for
them -- even though he did scrape through college ---- late in years, after
Army service as a technician.

He is ALSO so wobbly and indecisive that he ORIGINALLY said the test had
gotten him pegged just right -- but NOW says it's a bad test, because he is
not RELIGIOUS.

What An Imbecile!

No wonder the Rampant Pogue "Hippo" got pushed out of the senior management
of the Export-Import Company he TELLS us he and his family founded.

Hilarious!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f6e4h65oe8s5f@corp.supernews.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About
Them -- Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

<baldersnip>

Grey Satterfield

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Grey Satterfield » 28 aug 2006 21:18:23

On 8/28/06 1:40 PM, in article 12f6e4h65oe8s5f@corp.supernews.com, "hippo"
<hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About Them --
Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

Hey, drooling idiot, dictionary definition for political Right (caps are
mine):

" members of a CONSERVATIVE or reactionary political party, or those
opposing extensive political reform."

The cretin doesn't need to use a dictionary for commonly used terms,
you do. -the Troll

It's gratifying to see that even when he is not responding to one of my
posts, Spencer tries WAY to hard, anyway.

Grey Satterfield

Grey Satterfield

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Grey Satterfield » 28 aug 2006 21:22:42

On 8/28/06 2:01 PM, in article 65HIg.452$15.5009@eagle.america.net, "D.
Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:
"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f6e4h65oe8s5f@corp.supernews.com...

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About
Them -- Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

baldersnip


"Hippo" The Dense STILL doesn't understand the chart.

It measures _Neo-Liberalism_ in the Upper Right Quadrant, as defined in the
instructions and analysis for the test -- NOT "Conservatism".

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

The test was designed by BRITS.

"Hippo" needs to study GLADSTONE.

But "Hippo" is so stupid he runs to a dictionary to try to wriggle out of
his Egregious Gaffe, rather than just carefully reading and comprehending
[hard for him] the instructions and analysis for the test -- written by its
CREATORS.

This is what I mean by "The Uneducated Person". "Hippo" is a poster boy for
them -- even though he did scrape through college ---- late in years, after
Army service as a technician.

He is ALSO so wobbly and indecisive that he ORIGINALLY said the test had
gotten him pegged just right -- but NOW says it's a bad test, because he is
not RELIGIOUS.

What An Imbecile!

No wonder the Rampant Pogue "Hippo" got pushed out of the senior management
of the Export-Import Company he TELLS us he and his family founded.

Hilarious!

To think that when I wrote about Spencer having tried WAY to hard in
responding to one of hippo's posts, I had not yet seen the foregoing.
Goodness, it doesn't get any better than this, Esmeralda (or something like
that)! :)

Grey Satterfield

John P. Ravilious

Re: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 28 aug 2006 21:51:02

Dear Tim,

Thanks for your post, and the detailed feedback re: KSB K-R's
text (especially as regards William 'III' de Hastings).

Overall, she gives many more details in certain areas than I
show in my database,, which are of course welcome. I will look later
into the apparent chronology based on her 'version' vs. mine, esp. as
regards casting William 'VI' de Hastings as a descendant of William
'III'.

Cheers,

John




Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 28 Aug, Therav3@aol.com wrote:

The problem appears to be that the office of hereditary steward of St.
Edmundsbury (and that of despenser, evidently appended to it) did not pass in
anything approaching a direct line, at least until the death of William de
Hastings (d. bef 28 Jan 1226; husband of Margaret le Bigod). Following his
death, his son Henry de Hastings held Ashill by serjeanty of the king's
despenser [1226/8 and 1236, as given in DD 507, citing Fees, 387, 402, 592].

The following chart reflects the relationships of the 'hereditary'
stewards of St. Edmundsbury, starting with Maurice fitz Walter. He was
succeeded by his nephew Ralph de Hastings <2>, then successively by HIS
nephew William (fitz William fitz Robert, <III> below), HIS cousin William
(fitz Hugh de Hastings, <IV> below), and then HIS nephew Henry de
Hastings <V>. I mark Thomas de Hastings with the number <V> in the chart
below, as he was involved in securing his nephew Henry's rights as steward:
according to my notes,

" On 1 April 1182 Thomas de Hastings appeared before the Abbot of
St. Edmund's, leading 'his nephew Henry de Hastings', who was not
yet a knight, and demanded for him his hereditary office of dapifer
of the Abbey . " [Kay Allen, citing Jocelin de Brakelond; Eyton;
and Clark]

I will provide a more detailed pedigree in a followup post, providing the
documentation I have to date on the matter.

Cheers,

John *



Walter fitz Other = Beatrice
castellan of Windsor, d. aft 1099 I
tenant at Domesday, 1086> I
________________________________________I_______________________________
I I I I I ___________ I
William Gerald Rainald I I I I I
constable castellan _____I Maurice = Edith Robert (fitz = NN
of of Windsor I I Walter) de I
Windsor = Nesta Hugh I Hastings I
I ________I of Little Easton I
I I I
V Robert ____________________I
___________________________I_____________
I I I
Ralph de Hastings William de Hastings Hugh de Hastings
II> despenser and steward of Little Easton of Eston Flamville
d.s.p. aft 1158 = 1) NN = 2) Juliana = Erneburga
______________I I de Flamville
I ________I__ _______I________
I I I I I I
Robert de Hastings William <sisters> William Thomas
of Little Easton <III> <IV> <V
d. ca. 1190 despenser despenser I
I fl. 1164/5 and steward I
I = Maud de V
I Banastre a quo
2) Godfrey = Alice ______________I_____ HASTINGS
de Louvain I I I of
Gissing
I Henry William
V <V> <VI
a quo steward steward
LOVAINE d.s.p. 1194 I
of Little Easton I
V
a quo
HASTINGS
of Elsing


Obviously the above may well be right, nut it then means that one or two
bits in Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants are wrong. Here is the full
text she wrote about the William (III) Dispencer above:

Son of William fitz Robert of Hastings, lord of Little Easton
(d.c.1162). Heir of his uncle Ralph de Hastings (d.c.1163). Royal
dispencer to Henry, who, in 1164/5, confirmed him in the office of his
paternal uncle (patruus) Ralph I of Hastings as steward of Bury St
Edmunds, an office the said Ralph had inherited from his maternal
uncle (avunculus) Maurice of Windsor. In 1166 he held five fees of
Bury St Edmunds, and half a fee de novo at Compton, Surrey, of his
kinsman William of Windsor. In 1200 William de Hastings held five
fees of Bury at Lidgate, Blunham (Bedfordshire), West Harling,
Tibenham and Gissing, in Norfolk (Jocelyn of Brakelond, 120). Before
1162 it is difficult to distinguish William from his father in public
records. Around 1224 his _descendant_ [my emphasis] William de
Hastings held the serjeanty of the king's dispencer ('tenet per
sergentiam dispensarie regis') in Norfolk and Suffolk (Fees, 346). In
1226/8 and 1236 Henry de Hastings answered for the same serjeanty at
Ashill in Wayland hundred, Norfolk (Fees, 387, 402, 593)

She concluded with this list of references: (I have had to alter the
layout slightly as she uses italics a lot in this section for which I
have substituted quote marks)

Douglas, 'Feudal Documents from Bury St Edmunds', no 89; Gervers,
'Cartulary of Knights St John', II (1996), no 10, Pipe Roll 10 Henry
II, 10-sm; Pipe Roll 11 Henry II, 63-dssm, 64-dssm, 70-ox, 75-bk; Pipe
Roll 12 Henry II, 99-dssm; 'Red Book of the Exchequer', ed Hall
(1897), pp. 315-16, 392-94, 403-7; Stenton, 'Documents illustrative of
Danelaw' (1920), no. 63.

While she does have, as in my earlier post, articles on William IV and
his father Hugo, nowhere does she say that William IV was dispencer nor
that Hugo was the son of Robert of Hastings.

Further she has separately a William de Hastings who m. Juliana daughter
of John fitz Waleran. This William she says was the son of Robert of
Hastings. She does not give any wife to the above William the
Dispensator who held that office from 1164/5 to sometime after 1200.

The William de Hastings of Little Easton, son of Robert fitz Walter, she
gives as having married Helewis de Guerres and having at least these
children (citing Cal. of Ancient Deeds, A. 13694):

Robert of Hastings
William of Hastings
Ralph of Hastings
Alexander
John
Beatrice m. (1) Gilbert Carbonel, (2) Wm de Goldingham

She says he was probably also father of Amabilis de Hastings, sister of
William [the Dispensator] and wife successively of Richard fitz Robert
Foliot and of Ralph of Exeter.

Finally she says that Helewis de Guerres m. (2) Gilbert de Picquigny and
then (3) (another) William fitz Robert (Fees, 282) and she was still
alive in the early thirteenth century.

It seems that Eyton and Keats-Rohan give very different pictures of the
various Hastingses. In view of Eyton living very much earlier and thus
with probably much less access to all the documents that are now made
public, I wonder if Eyton can still be relied on. Certainly Keats-Rohan
does not mention Eyton in her account of the Hastingses. She does
mention Sanders, of whom usually she is a great fan and says 'he is
unreliable on this family'.

I have nothing more to offer as I do not have convenient access to the
primary source material that she cites, let alone could I read it in
other then translation.

E&OE for the transcriptions.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

John P. Ravilious

Re: Two Maud Banesters

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 28 aug 2006 21:55:14

Dear Ken,

While there is no website as of yet for Scots Peerage to compare
(or even attempt to compare) to what Chris Phillips has provided re:
CP, the subject was brought up some time ago. Such a project would be
a major boon, and I had considered the possibility but have not found
adequate time to even attempt the same to date.
Should you or anyone of the list wish to consider same, I'd
definitely suggest contacting Chris and a number of other SGM members
to discuss the matter.

Cheers,

John



Ken Ozanne wrote:
James, John, others,
Scots Peerage Vol 1 p 504 identifies the two Mauds. Is there a website
for corrections?

Best,
Ken

On 28/8/2006 12:29, "GEN-MEDIEVAL-D-request@rootsweb.com"
GEN-MEDIEVAL-D-request@rootsweb.com> wrote:

From: Jwc1870@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:43:13 EDT
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Two Maud Banesters ? wifes of William Comyn and William Hastings

Dear John R, Claudius, Will, Douglas and others,
In
Carl Boyer III`s book Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans p 58 He
indicates that William Comyn died before 1140 and his wife Maud, daughter of
Thurstan Banester or Basset married 2nd William de Hastings. She is known to
have
had four sons of this marriage, William, Richard, Osbert and Walter Comyn. We
know Richard recieved a grant of land in about 1144 (Northallerton Castle)
perhaps in conjunction with his marriage to Hextilda of Tynedale. As He
recieved
a grant of land, We know He was born not later than 1123. If He were the
oldest son or a twin, then his mother was born not later than 1109. In Douglas
Richardson`s Magna Carta Ancestry under Elsing, We find William de Hastings
b
abt 1163 -d 1226, son of William Hastings and Maud, daughter of Thurstan
Banister recieved livery of his mother`s manor of Aston. Warwickshire in 1222.
If
the lady had just died, She could be no less than 113 years old, which is
incredibly unlikely. Unless Maud Banester the wife of Comyn was the aunt of
Maud
Banester the wife of Hastings, each the daughter of a successive Thurston
Banester, it`s unlikely the two familes were closely related.
Sincerely,

James W Cummings

Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Two Maud Banesters

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 aug 2006 22:56:02

Dear Ken,
I don`t know of a website for corrections to the Scots
Peerage, but there is one for the Complete Peerage.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 28 aug 2006 23:08:35

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

"Hippo" The Dense STILL doesn't understand the chart.
It measures _Neo-Liberalism_ in the Upper Right Quadrant, as defined in
the
instructions and analysis for the test -- NOT "Conservatism".

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

The test was designed by BRITS.

"Hippo" needs to study GLADSTONE.

But "Hippo" is so stupid he runs to a dictionary to try to wriggle out of
his Egregious Gaffe, rather than just carefully reading and comprehending
[hard for him] the instructions and analysis for the test -- written by
its
CREATORS.

This is what I mean by "The Uneducated Person". "Hippo" is a poster boy
for
them -- even though he did scrape through college ---- late in years,
after
Army service as a technician.

He is ALSO so wobbly and indecisive that he ORIGINALLY said the test had
gotten him pegged just right -- but NOW says it's a bad test, because he
is
not RELIGIOUS.

What An Imbecile!

No wonder the Rampant Pogue "Hippo" got pushed out of the senior
management of the Export-Import Company he TELLS us he and his family
founded.

You poor, pathetic bastard (colloquial phrase having nothing to do with your
parentage). -the Troll

Gjest

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 aug 2006 23:31:02

Dear Spencer, Grey,Hippo and others,
Well, I took the
test and came out as a Economic Liberal / Conservative with a score of -3.13
and a Libertarian / Authoritarian with a score of 0.72. All in all, I think the
test rendered too many gray areas black and white to allow for a true picture.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 28 aug 2006 23:34:36

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

in article "hippo" wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About
Them --
Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

Hey, drooling idiot, dictionary definition for political Right (caps are
mine):

" members of a CONSERVATIVE or reactionary political party, or those
opposing extensive political reform."

The cretin doesn't need to use a dictionary for commonly used terms,
you do. -the Troll

It's gratifying to see that even when he is not responding to one of my
posts, Spencer tries WAY to hard, anyway.

His ego, of which he is mostly composed, is wounded. He thrashes and blows
like a harpooned whale. It comes, as you say, from taking Usenet far too
seriously.

What irritates me most is thinking that the Brits, Canadians, and others
posting here might think he is typical of Americans and Republicans. -the
Troll

Gjest

Re: The Comyns and the House of Galloway: a prior Connection

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 aug 2006 01:35:03

In a message dated 8/19/06 6:34:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Therav3 writes:

<< Children: Roland, Lord of Galloway (-1200)
Eve (-1217), m. 1) Walter de Berkeley,
2) Robert de Quincy
Dervorguilla, m. Laurence de Abernethy
Fergus (->1212) >>

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH ... Toc1275905
43
States the marriages in reversed order

Grey Satterfield

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Grey Satterfield » 29 aug 2006 02:08:56

On 8/28/06 5:34 PM, in article 12f6rrv25472008@corp.supernews.com, "hippo"
<hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote:

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

in article "hippo" wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

The chart doesn't even MEASURE "Conservatism" -- you cretin.

Learn To Read Charts Instead Of Babbling Uniformed Gibberish About
Them --
Sans Benefit Of Understanding & Savvy.

Hey, drooling idiot, dictionary definition for political Right (caps are
mine):

" members of a CONSERVATIVE or reactionary political party, or those
opposing extensive political reform."

The cretin doesn't need to use a dictionary for commonly used terms,
you do. -the Troll

It's gratifying to see that even when he is not responding to one of my
posts, Spencer tries WAY to hard, anyway.

His ego, of which he is mostly composed, is wounded. He thrashes and blows
like a harpooned whale. It comes, as you say, from taking Usenet far too
seriously.

What irritates me most is thinking that the Brits, Canadians, and others
posting here might think he is typical of Americans and Republicans. -the
Troll

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

Grey Satterfield

Gjest

Re: Odinel and Simon Comyn, sons of Richard Comyn (d. 1182)

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 aug 2006 02:25:03

In a message dated 8/20/06 7:37:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Jwc1870@aol.com
writes:

<< If Odinel ware only mentioned in the 1162 document so as the
monks knew whose soul they were praying for >>

No I'm saying Odinel was a witness. So we're at the point where we need to
see the actual language.

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 03:32:13

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous and
so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior being
and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or denigrated by
envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make excellent field
commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are willing to
sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime
they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and
neighbors. -the Troll

La N

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av La N » 29 aug 2006 03:39:47

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f79pfb9ku1kb8@corp.supernews.com...
"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are
willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In
peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you pretty
much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare I
say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

- nilita

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 29 aug 2006 04:48:59

"I'm dead center on the line between authoritarian and libertarian and about
half way out to the right from center. Naturally, I think that's just about
the perfect place to be, very sensible and balanced. :^) -the Troll"

"Hippo" The Dense -- 27 August 2006 -- 2043 EDT

"I test out as a religious Republican, which is interesting because I ain't
religious. I agree with Fred, it's a bad test. -the Troll"

"Hippo" The Dense -- 28 August 2006 -- 1411 EDT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hilarious!

"Hippo" -- Thy Name Is Incontinence, Incompetence & Inconstancy.

"Hippo" Can Do A Flip-Flop Even Faster Than John Kerry -- In Less Than 24
Hours.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 05:20:24

"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are
willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In
peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you pretty
much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare I
say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of their
social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult. They have
no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father did it or
held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral patterns even
when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become outdated,
often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of understanding
of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example. Patton and
Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll

celia

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av celia » 29 aug 2006 05:59:06

hippo wrote:
"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are
willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In
peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you pretty
much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare I
say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of their
social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult. They have
no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father did it or
held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral patterns even
when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become outdated,
often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of understanding
of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example. Patton and
Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll

No, not a lack of 'understanding' but an inability to empathise.

Celia

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 29 aug 2006 07:43:43

Hilarious!

"Hippo", like Grey, simply can't deal with SUBSTANCE, so he turns to
long-distance, never-having-met-the subject, amateur psychological
analysis and diagnosis -- which he is totally unqualified to make.

"Hippo" confuses and conflates USENET posts with Real Life -- because he has
been pinked repetitively as well as kicked in the arse and is wounded and
embarrassed by his own egregious gaffes -- for which he has no defenses to
deploy in explanation and exoneration.

He Knows When He Has Been Nailed On SUBSTANCE -- as I have done several
times just today.

So, naturally, I justly enjoy excoriating him for his deficiencies on
SUBSTANCE, as revealed in his numerous careless posts -- mistakes, gaffes,
factual blunders, poor judgments, historical ignorance, et alia.

One shouldn't just suffer fools gladly and casually.

It's bad for the fool as well as for the individual who suffers him.

Further, USENET is not a "social" venue, a tea party, a club, a bridge game
or a Kaffeeklatsch.

USENET is a Bazaar in the Free Market of Ideas AND a Sports Arena.

Watching "Hippo" writhe, squirm, protest and prevaricate is indeed Vastly
Amusing.

Hippos Can't Easily Hide... <g>

However, seeing myself compared to General Patton and Fieldmarshal Rommel
did give me a Good Laugh.

Honorable Company Indeed.

Perhaps we should invite them to our croquet game too, Celia.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

Renia

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Renia » 29 aug 2006 08:24:14

hippo wrote:

"La N" wrote in message


"hippo" wrote in message


"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message


What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are
willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In
peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you pretty
much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare I
say it - narcissistic personality disorder.


Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of their
social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult. They have
no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father did it or
held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral patterns even
when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become outdated,
often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of understanding
of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example. Patton and
Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll


It's the Meme effect. Copying by example.

celia

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av celia » 29 aug 2006 08:50:23

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
However, seeing myself compared to General Patton and Fieldmarshal Rommel
did give me a Good Laugh.

Honorable Company Indeed.

Perhaps we should invite them to our croquet game too, Celia.

It was surreal enough to begin with.

Add a hippo to the players and hand round the flamingoes.

Celia

a.spencer3

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 29 aug 2006 08:57:53

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f79pfb9ku1kb8@corp.supernews.com...
"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and
so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior being
and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or denigrated
by
envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make excellent field
commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are willing to
sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime
they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and
neighbors. -the Troll


But didn't he also muck up his attempts at war-from-a-distance also?


Surreyman

a.spencer3

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 29 aug 2006 09:01:23

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...
"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy
the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode
as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a
superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and
are
willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them.
In
peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you
pretty
much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare
I
say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their
social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult. They
have
no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father did it or
held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral patterns even
when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become outdated,
often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of
understanding
of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example. Patton and
Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll


Rommel?


Surreyman

D. Patterson

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 29 aug 2006 09:25:23

a.spencer3 wrote:

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...

"La N" wrote in message


"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message


What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy

the

exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode

as

a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,

what

the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a

superior

being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and

are

willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them.

In

peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands,
fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you

pretty

much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement - dare

I

say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of

their

social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult. They

have

no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father did it or
held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral patterns even
when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become outdated,
often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of

understanding

of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example. Patton and
Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll



Rommel?

Surreyman




Yeah, Rommel, and not Ajax, the clean-up man....

David Brunton

Re: McLaughlin's Weird, Neurotic Fixation On Foxes & Fox Hun

Legg inn av David Brunton » 29 aug 2006 12:20:00

What has Fox hunting do with GENEALOGY please give it a rest and find an
other forum.

This one has been done to dead.

David


Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rv%Hg.349$15.4189@eagle.america.net...
Hear! Hear!

DSH

"Guy Etchells" <guy.etchells@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:44F07DC1.5090307@virgin.net...

Or it could be that as in Scotland the authorities turn a blind eye and
pretend it doesn't happen.

Farmers in Wales seem to think there has been an increase in fox attacks
since hunting stopped.

"The ban on foxhunting over the last year has led to an explosion in the
population to unprecedented levels. In some cases farmers who lost six or
seven lambs to foxes have seen the numbers they lose jump to between 35
and 40.

That was last spring when fox numbers were only just starting to rise.
But
nine months later the fox population has risen beyond belief.
If radical action is not taken to reduce the numbers in the New Year,
there will be hundreds of lambs killed this spring."

Cheers
Guy


Ye Old One wrote:
What is interesting is that there has been no increase in those sorts
of attacks since hunting was banned. I find that very telling.
--
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, England.


La N

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av La N » 29 aug 2006 12:45:21

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...
"La N" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and
are willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain
them. In peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying
husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you
pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement -
dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult.
They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father
did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral
patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have
become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete
lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around them. It
varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes
are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll


You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker ...
you scare me .... %)

- nilita

D. Patterson

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 29 aug 2006 12:48:34

La N wrote:

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...

"La N" wrote in message


"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message


What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as
a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or
denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make
excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and
are willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain
them. In peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying
husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you
pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of entitlement -
dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult.
They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father
did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral
patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have
become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete
lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around them. It
varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes
are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll



You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker ...
you scare me .... %)

- nilita




Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when
they are cast into Dante's inferno?

La N

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av La N » 29 aug 2006 12:53:14

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42992.2010205@fidalgo.net...

La N wrote:

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...

"La N" wrote in message


"hippo" wrote in message

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message


What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy
the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode
as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a
superior being and resents that his abilities are constantly being
ignored or denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His
sort make excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal
oriented and are willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men,
to attain them. In peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and
bullying husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll


If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you
pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of
entitlement - dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.

Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult.
They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that their
father did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned
behavioral patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them,
or have become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a
complete lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around
them. It varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous public
gaffes are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this type. -the
Troll



You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker ...
you scare me .... %)

- nilita

Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when they
are cast into Dante's inferno?


Probably to a place called Malbowges with the rest of Hippo's fan club ...

- nilita

D. Patterson

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 29 aug 2006 13:05:25

La N wrote:

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42992.2010205@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:


"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...


"La N" wrote in message



"hippo" wrote in message


"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message



What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy
the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode
as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)


You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a
superior being and resents that his abilities are constantly being
ignored or denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His
sort make excellent field commanders in war. They are totally goal
oriented and are willing to sacrifice themselves, and all of their men,
to attain them. In peacetime they are tyrants in the workplace, and
bullying husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the Troll



If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep his
prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster, you
pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of
entitlement - dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.


Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult.
They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that their
father did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned
behavioral patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them,
or have become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a
complete lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around
them. It varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous public
gaffes are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this type. -the
Troll



You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker ...
you scare me .... %)

- nilita

Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when they
are cast into Dante's inferno?



Probably to a place called Malbowges with the rest of Hippo's fan club ...

- nilita





Eighth Circle. The fraudulent--those guilty of deliberate, knowing
evil--are located in a circle named Malebolge ("Evil Pockets"), divided
into ten ditches, with bridges spanning the ditches:

Ditch 1: Panderers and seducers walk in separate lines in opposite
directions, whipped by demons. (Canto XVIII)
Dante's guide rebuffs Malacoda and his fiends between ditches five and
six in the eighth circle of Inferno, Canto 21.

Ditch 2: Flatterers are steeped in human excrement.

Ditch 9: A sword-wielding devil hacks at the sowers of discord. As they
make their rounds the wounds heal, only to have the devil tear apart
their bodies again. Muhammad tells Dante to warn the schismatic and
heretic Fra Dolcino. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante's_Inferno

La N

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av La N » 29 aug 2006 13:42:08

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42D85.9030802@fidalgo.net...

La N wrote:

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42992.2010205@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:


"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...


"La N" wrote in message



"hippo" wrote in message


"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message



What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy
the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode
as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)


You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is
ponderous and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he
is a superior being and resents that his abilities are constantly
being ignored or denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior
superiors. His sort make excellent field commanders in war. They are
totally goal oriented and are willing to sacrifice themselves, and
all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime they are tyrants in
the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the
Troll



If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep
his prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster,
you pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of
entitlement - dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.


Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired
adult. They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that
their father did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned
behavioral patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them,
or have become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a
complete lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around
them. It varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous
public gaffes are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this
type. -the Troll



You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker
... you scare me .... %)

- nilita

Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when they
are cast into Dante's inferno?



Probably to a place called Malbowges with the rest of Hippo's fan club
...

- nilita


Eighth Circle. The fraudulent--those guilty of deliberate, knowing
evil--are located in a circle named Malebolge ("Evil Pockets"), divided
into ten ditches, with bridges spanning the ditches:

Ditch 1: Panderers and seducers walk in separate lines in opposite
directions, whipped by demons. (Canto XVIII)
Dante's guide rebuffs Malacoda and his fiends between ditches five and six
in the eighth circle of Inferno, Canto 21.

Ditch 2: Flatterers are steeped in human excrement.

Ditch 9: A sword-wielding devil hacks at the sowers of discord. As they
make their rounds the wounds heal, only to have the devil tear apart their
bodies again. Muhammad tells Dante to warn the schismatic and heretic Fra
Dolcino. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante's_Inferno



Yeah yeah yeah ... Patterson, I gathered some months ago you didn't like me.
My heart shall go on, and you will continue to hump my posts coming up with
newer and more creative insults.

- nilita

Grey Satterfield

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Grey Satterfield » 29 aug 2006 14:08:00

On 8/28/06 10:48 PM, in article gSOIg.474$15.5238@eagle.america.net, "D.
Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

"I'm dead center on the line between authoritarian and libertarian and about
half way out to the right from center. Naturally, I think that's just about
the perfect place to be, very sensible and balanced. :^) -the Troll"

"Hippo" The Dense -- 27 August 2006 -- 2043 EDT

"I test out as a religious Republican, which is interesting because I ain't
religious. I agree with Fred, it's a bad test. -the Troll"

"Hippo" The Dense -- 28 August 2006 -- 1411 EDT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------

Hilarious!

"Hippo" -- Thy Name Is Incontinence, Incompetence & Inconstancy.

"Hippo" Can Do A Flip-Flop Even Faster Than John Kerry -- In Less Than 24
Hours.

DSH

"Incontinence"? If so, inquiring minds want to know how he knows?

Grey Satterfield

Grey Satterfield

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av Grey Satterfield » 29 aug 2006 14:17:12

On 8/29/06 1:43 AM, in article doRIg.478$15.5430@eagle.america.net, "D.
Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hilarious!

"Hippo", like Grey, simply can't deal with SUBSTANCE, so he turns to
long-distance, never-having-met-the subject, amateur psychological
analysis and diagnosis -- which he is totally unqualified to make.

"Hippo" confuses and conflates USENET posts with Real Life -- because he has
been pinked repetitively as well as kicked in the arse and is wounded and
embarrassed by his own egregious gaffes -- for which he has no defenses to
deploy in explanation and exoneration.

He Knows When He Has Been Nailed On SUBSTANCE -- as I have done several
times just today.

So, naturally, I justly enjoy excoriating him for his deficiencies on
SUBSTANCE, as revealed in his numerous careless posts -- mistakes, gaffes,
factual blunders, poor judgments, historical ignorance, et alia.

One shouldn't just suffer fools gladly and casually.

It's bad for the fool as well as for the individual who suffers him.

Further, USENET is not a "social" venue, a tea party, a club, a bridge game
or a Kaffeeklatsch.

USENET is a Bazaar in the Free Market of Ideas AND a Sports Arena.

Watching "Hippo" writhe, squirm, protest and prevaricate is indeed Vastly
Amusing.

Hippos Can't Easily Hide... <g

However, seeing myself compared to General Patton and Fieldmarshal Rommel
did give me a Good Laugh.

Honorable Company Indeed.

Perhaps we should invite them to our croquet game too, Celia.

DSH

Spencer war replying to hippo's post, but snipped it. Here is what hippo
said about Spencer but Spencer snipped:

"Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired adult.
They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that their father
did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned behavioral
patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them, or have become
outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of
understanding of both themselves and the people around them. It varies in
intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an
example. Patton and Rommel were both of this type."

Both hippo's remarks and Spencer's having snipped them are deliciously
Freudian, it seems to me.

It really doesn't get any better than this, Rose of Sharon.

Grey Satterfield

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 15:53:56

"a.spencer3" wrote in message

Rommel?

Yup, apparently Rommel was a perfect bastard to work for. His long suffering
staff had to resort to subterfuge to get sleep and eat. He expected to be
informed about what was going on but didn't reciprocate, often leaving them
in the dark as to where he was and what his plans were. His cavalier
attitude infuriated his boss Kesselring in Rome. -the Troll

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 15:57:10

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

"Hippo", like Grey, simply can't deal with SUBSTANCE.....

[.]

Go count coup on a lamp post. I'm too grown up to play your games. -the
Troll

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 16:10:35

"La N" wrote in message

You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker ...
you scare me .... %)

Nah, it's basic management stuff. The theory is to know your own management
style and that of others so as to best create and utilize a balanced
management team. -the Troll

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 16:17:56

"a.spencer3" wrote in message

"hippo" wrote in message

You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous
and
so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being
and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or denigrated
by
envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make excellent field
commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are willing to
sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime
they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and
neighbors. -the Troll


But didn't he also muck up his attempts at war-from-a-distance also?

They make good subordinate field commanders, not overall commanders. If old
Georgie Patton had been in overall command in Europe we'd have been at war
with all our allies long before Germany was finished off. A new theory has
been floated over here that Patton's accident was no accident, but rather
choreographed by Stalin. -the Troll

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 16:19:34

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message

"Hippo" Can Do A Flip-Flop Even Faster Than John Kerry -- In Less Than 24
Hours.

Two different tests, you twit. -the Troll

D. Spencer Hines

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 29 aug 2006 16:29:26

"Hippo" is simply the croquet ball holder.

He sits placidly in the center of the Field of Play, under an umbrella with
a mint julep and holds the croquet balls in his mouth -- dispersing them as
required.

He's too slow, heavy and clumsy to be a competitor.

DSH

"celia" <c_a_blay@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156837823.444363.43330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

However, seeing myself compared to General Patton and Fieldmarshal Rommel
did give me a Good Laugh.

Honorable Company Indeed.

Perhaps we should invite them to our croquet game too, Celia.

It was surreal enough to begin with.
Add a hippo to the players and hand round the flamingoes.

Celia

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 16:31:58

"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message

[.]

"Incontinence"? If so, inquiring minds want to know how he knows?

Chuckle, lets you know where his nose is. -the Troll

D. Patterson

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 29 aug 2006 16:39:17

La N wrote:

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42D85.9030802@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:


"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42992.2010205@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:



"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...



"La N" wrote in message




"hippo" wrote in message



"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message




What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy
the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode
as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)



You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is
ponderous and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he
is a superior being and resents that his abilities are constantly
being ignored or denigrated by envious inferiors and inferior
superiors. His sort make excellent field commanders in war. They are
totally goal oriented and are willing to sacrifice themselves, and
all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime they are tyrants in
the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and neighbors. -the
Troll




If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep
his prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster,
you pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of
entitlement - dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.



Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all of
their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired
adult. They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that
their father did it or held similar values. They stick to these learned
behavioral patterns even when they are inappropriate, unsuited to them,
or have become outdated, often to their own disadvantage. At base is a
complete lack of understanding of both themselves and the people around
them. It varies in intensity, of course. General Patton's infamous
public gaffes are an example. Patton and Rommel were both of this
type. -the Troll




You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human nature.
Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a headshrinker
... you scare me .... %)

- nilita


Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when they
are cast into Dante's inferno?



Probably to a place called Malbowges with the rest of Hippo's fan club
...

- nilita


Eighth Circle. The fraudulent--those guilty of deliberate, knowing
evil--are located in a circle named Malebolge ("Evil Pockets"), divided
into ten ditches, with bridges spanning the ditches:

Ditch 1: Panderers and seducers walk in separate lines in opposite
directions, whipped by demons. (Canto XVIII)
Dante's guide rebuffs Malacoda and his fiends between ditches five and six
in the eighth circle of Inferno, Canto 21.

Ditch 2: Flatterers are steeped in human excrement.

Ditch 9: A sword-wielding devil hacks at the sowers of discord. As they
make their rounds the wounds heal, only to have the devil tear apart their
bodies again. Muhammad tells Dante to warn the schismatic and heretic Fra
Dolcino. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante's_Inferno




Yeah yeah yeah ... Patterson, I gathered some months ago you didn't like me.
My heart shall go on, and you will continue to hump my posts coming up with
newer and more creative insults.

- nilita






ANNE BARBEAU GARDINER. The Teaching of Ethics through Literature and
Dante's Inferno. IT SEEMS absurd to give college students checklists of
factual information that they should know for cultural literacy when
they lack a much more crucial foundation for civilized living. The
knowledge of what vice and virtue consist of seems more necessary to a
citizen than the exact memory of the dates of a war...Yet if the art of
justice, or moderation, or compassion for the oppressed is what we truly
admire, then we ought to help citizens acquire these skills from their
earliest years...Recently, while completing a study of Dante's Inferno
with a class, I thought I might devise a way of helping the students
make the moral application from the scheme of vices in this medieval
picture of hell to contemporary examples drawn from newspapers. I
thought they might find it useful to judge contemporary conduct through
the eyes of a great Florentine moralist of 1300 AD. This merging of
Dante and our times was so acceptable to them that some who had
previously been tongue-tied suddenly became articulate, discussing with
ardor what Dante would have thought about a certain modern
offender...The 1980s through Dante's Eyes: Name the Circle, Ditch, and
Punishment Reserved for These Wrongdoers...I found that students had no
trouble exercising their moral imagination and, after putting themselves
in Dante's place, assigning an appropriate level of punishment to each
offender. Some examples caused a good deal of discussion, but since the
students were looking through Dante's eyes, they came to a consensus
quite readily. Stepping back to a vantage point in another age seemed an
exhilarating exercise for them. A light-hearted mood prevailed in the
class as one sinner after another was sent down to an appropriate place
in the inferno...Later, after the term was over, another student
informed me that he had "changed his life-style" as a result of reading
Dante's Inferno . He stated that Dante had literally scared him out of
his vices...The author is Professor of English at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice, City University of New York.
http://www.mla.org/ade/bulletin/n093/093022.htm

La N

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av La N » 29 aug 2006 16:43:14

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F45FA5.7060201@fidalgo.net...

La N wrote:

"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42D85.9030802@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:


"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44F42992.2010205@fidalgo.net...


La N wrote:



"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f7g4anj5v8227@corp.supernews.com...



"La N" wrote in message




"hippo" wrote in message



"Grey Satterfield" wrote in message




What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly
enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag
mode as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He
goes wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get
painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but,
what the
hell, this is Usenet. :)



You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is
ponderous and so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks
he is a superior being and resents that his abilities are
constantly being ignored or denigrated by envious inferiors and
inferior superiors. His sort make excellent field commanders in
war. They are totally goal oriented and are willing to sacrifice
themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime they
are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and
neighbors. -the Troll




If he were my neighbour, there would be no fence high enough to keep
his prodding gossipy old nose out of my business! Anyway, Hipster,
you pretty much described a person with an exaggerated sense of
entitlement - dare I say it - narcissistic personality disorder.



Rather than a disorder it is a personality type. The problem is all
of their social skills are learned, usually from a father or admired
adult. They have no sense of why they are doing something, only that
their father did it or held similar values. They stick to these
learned behavioral patterns even when they are inappropriate,
unsuited to them, or have become outdated, often to their own
disadvantage. At base is a complete lack of understanding of both
themselves and the people around them. It varies in intensity, of
course. General Patton's infamous public gaffes are an example.
Patton and Rommel were both of this type. -the Troll




You are a wise man, oh Hipmeister, and a keen observer of human
nature. Furthermore, I think *you* are the one qualified to be a
headshrinker ... you scare me .... %)

- nilita


Do you have any idea where flatterers liek you are doomed to go when
they are cast into Dante's inferno?



Probably to a place called Malbowges with the rest of Hippo's fan club
...

- nilita


Eighth Circle. The fraudulent--those guilty of deliberate, knowing
evil--are located in a circle named Malebolge ("Evil Pockets"), divided
into ten ditches, with bridges spanning the ditches:

Ditch 1: Panderers and seducers walk in separate lines in opposite
directions, whipped by demons. (Canto XVIII)
Dante's guide rebuffs Malacoda and his fiends between ditches five and
six in the eighth circle of Inferno, Canto 21.

Ditch 2: Flatterers are steeped in human excrement.

Ditch 9: A sword-wielding devil hacks at the sowers of discord. As they
make their rounds the wounds heal, only to have the devil tear apart
their bodies again. Muhammad tells Dante to warn the schismatic and
heretic Fra Dolcino. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante's_Inferno




Yeah yeah yeah ... Patterson, I gathered some months ago you didn't like
me. My heart shall go on, and you will continue to hump my posts coming
up with newer and more creative insults.

- nilita



ANNE BARBEAU GARDINER. The Teaching of Ethics through Literature and
Dante's Inferno. IT SEEMS absurd to give college students checklists of
factual information that they should know for cultural literacy when they
lack a much more crucial foundation for civilized living. The knowledge of
what vice and virtue consist of seems more necessary to a citizen than the
exact memory of the dates of a war...Yet if the art of justice, or
moderation, or compassion for the oppressed is what we truly admire, then
we ought to help citizens acquire these skills from their earliest
years...Recently, while completing a study of Dante's Inferno with a
class, I thought I might devise a way of helping the students make the
moral application from the scheme of vices in this medieval picture of
hell to contemporary examples drawn from newspapers. I thought they might
find it useful to judge contemporary conduct through the eyes of a great
Florentine moralist of 1300 AD. This merging of Dante and our times was so
acceptable to them that some who had previously been tongue-tied suddenly
became articulate, discussing with ardor what Dante would have thought
about a certain modern offender...The 1980s through Dante's Eyes: Name the
Circle, Ditch, and Punishment Reserved for These Wrongdoers...I found that
students had no trouble exercising their moral imagination and, after
putting themselves in Dante's place, assigning an appropriate level of
punishment to each offender. Some examples caused a good deal of
discussion, but since the students were looking through Dante's eyes, they
came to a consensus quite readily. Stepping back to a vantage point in
another age seemed an exhilarating exercise for them. A light-hearted mood
prevailed in the class as one sinner after another was sent down to an
appropriate place in the inferno...Later, after the term was over, another
student informed me that he had "changed his life-style" as a result of
reading Dante's Inferno . He stated that Dante had literally scared him
out of his vices...The author is Professor of English at John Jay College
of Criminal Justice, City University of New York.
http://www.mla.org/ade/bulletin/n093/093022.htm




Well, here's the deal. I don't consider admiring and complimenting
Hippo-troll (that which you have insinuated to be a hell-deserving sin of
idol flattery) to be a vice.

I'm guessing yer jes' jellus.

HTH

- nilita

D. Patterson

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 29 aug 2006 16:45:34

hippo wrote:

"a.spencer3" wrote in message


"hippo" wrote in message


You'd be wrong about the shtick. What little humor he owns is ponderous

and

so out of place it is obvious. No, he really thinks he is a superior
being
and resents that his abilities are constantly being ignored or denigrated

by

envious inferiors and inferior superiors. His sort make excellent field
commanders in war. They are totally goal oriented and are willing to
sacrifice themselves, and all of their men, to attain them. In peacetime
they are tyrants in the workplace, and bullying husbands, fathers, and
neighbors. -the Troll



But didn't he also muck up his attempts at war-from-a-distance also?


They make good subordinate field commanders, not overall commanders. If old
Georgie Patton had been in overall command in Europe we'd have been at war
with all our allies long before Germany was finished off. A new theory has
been floated over here that Patton's accident was no accident, but rather
choreographed by Stalin. -the Troll




I've long suspected he was being used in the same role in which he was
used as commander of FUSAG.

a.spencer3

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 29 aug 2006 16:46:56

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote in message
news:12f8l87fkpdeo84@corp.supernews.com...
"a.spencer3" wrote in message

Rommel?

Yup, apparently Rommel was a perfect bastard to work for. His long
suffering
staff had to resort to subterfuge to get sleep and eat. He expected to be
informed about what was going on but didn't reciprocate, often leaving
them
in the dark as to where he was and what his plans were. His cavalier
attitude infuriated his boss Kesselring in Rome. -the Troll


I knew he was a hard driver, but never thought of him as erratic.

Must pay more attention!

Surreyman

TOliver

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av TOliver » 29 aug 2006 16:58:27

"Grey Satterfield" <gsatterfield@cox.net> wrote et...

"hippo" <hippo@south-sudan.net> wrote:

His ego, of which he is mostly composed, is wounded. He thrashes and
blows
like a harpooned whale. It comes, as you say, from taking Usenet far too
seriously.

What irritates me most is thinking that the Brits, Canadians, and others
posting here might think he is typical of Americans and Republicans. -the
Troll

What fascinates me about Spencer and, dare I say it, I mostly enjoy the
exchanges I have with him, is that I regard his pompous gas bag mode as a
shtick, which he usually takes no more seriously than I do. He goes
wrong,
though, when he feels his ego threatened. Then he can get painfully
personal and offensive. That's a big mistake, it seems to be but, what
the
hell, this is Usenet. :)


I must admit to enjoying a substantial amount of the material, from mostly
misinterpreted to outright balderdash, which Spencer posts. I marvel at his
perspective of the world and that anyone could be (today especially, with
Usenet a constant companion) self-isolated. I've no trouble in
comprehending the "Leftish" perspective and opinions of most academics,
living so close to so many, although some - especially them - would rightly
claim that Baylor's "academics" have less freedom to wander philosophically,
while the reality of the matter is that many of my acquaintance could form
an echo-chamber choir for Viknce or John Mullen, as Liberal in view in the
tight little island of a Southern Baptist place than they would be down in
Austin, maybe even more so, just to make a point - meanwhile, the Law School
has changed to become more a bastion of conservatism than a breeding ground
for litigators as it once was. Spencer in his way is as removed from the
world as are so many of the Ivory Tower dwellers who abound on Usenet.

Just as I find Vikcne's incalculable offensiveness in his standard and
repeated fallback of accusing (or intimating that) all with views contrary
to his are more than dabbling their feet in the fountain of Fascism, I find
it difficult to stomach Spencer's all too easy and oft resort to nasty
insult (which in his case, a man entirely devoid, apparently, of anything
resembling a sense of humor) is simple self-destruction.

I'm little better in the sense that I'm quick to attempt to fling irrational
harpoons at posts, no matter the philosophy of the poster, that I see as
irrational or simply abject and open admissions of both prejudice and
ignorance, but I consistently attempt to at least cloak them in humor.

Spencer and Vince share a common ("joint") fault, a kinship neither would
care to admit, an absolute inability to laugh at themselves, an offense for
which one establishes self-guilt and for which there seems little cure or
even palliative. I suspect that there is a punitive side to the fault,
however, the inevitable self-punishment which descends upon the most
narcissist of us during some random glance at the mirror.

In Spencer's case, as quick as he is to retort/riposte etc., to criticism of
some matters, he's desperately silent in the face of dozens of quite
offensive (and likely largely inaccurate) posts concerning his naval
service. I've been around enough officers, junior or senior in rank, to put
much trust in some of the outward manifestations of career success, since
the finest officer I've ever known did not rise above the rank of LCDR,
while I can nominate several O6s to the Hall of Shame. I am guilty of
accepting the opinion of men and women whom I had opportunity to know and
trust. From two of tem, one who served with the Senator in a small
combatant, the other in the same part of Vietnam at the same time, comes the
basis for my antipathy for Kerry, aggravated by that shameful (from choice
of uniform to choice of words) committee appearance. My hesitancy about
McCain arises from the opinion of one of his fellow aviators who saw him as
rash, inconsiderate and willful as a young man. While I can't forgive him
for that silly and counterproductive "McCain Feingold", law written about as
badly as law might be written, his conduct and actions during the last eight
years have moved him up my ladder of esteem. With Spencer, I'm still
looking for someone who knew him "when", because a couple of sins of which
he's been accused may well have been well intentioned - but misguided -
attempts to improve bad situations absent leadership and support. Now, I
would be willing to find him guilty of a "Lesser included offense", the "I
already know how to handle that" attitude which comes from being the son of
a father whose sleeves were ringed in gold or being one of those who had
danced thru Canoe U as if it were some sort of Cotillion of choreographed
moves and encounters. I'm sure Grey or Jack as junior officers can recall
crossing the wake of one of those sort of Boat-Schooled insufferable twits.
Spencer did not go to Boat School, matriculating Yale - which apparently
from friends' reports was, depending upon one's level of involvement and
course of study, no more challenging that any number of less illustrious
universities, and somewhere between home, New Haven and Hawaii, ended up
cloaking himself in thick layers of pomposity (cemented and face-hardened)
which would do credit to that displayed by Viknce, an observer of the human
scene long on theory, well laden with the fruits of academic exchange, but
now and again revealing of glowing shortcomings in practical experience and
exposure.

Now, John Mullen's different. You've got to realize that were Lubbock, El
Paso or Albuquerque your closest venues for urban exposure, your horizons
would be more than limited, severely constricted being a better description.
In a land watered by the Pecos and Rio Grande (which means little watered)
where cultural hot spots include standing in the bed of one's pickup to have
a free view - over the fence - of Billy the Kid's grave or the Hatch Chile
Harvest Festival, cities such as Las Cruces, Roswell or Clovis are not
exactly lofty observatories from which to view the world.....as
intellectually isolated as are apparently Spencer's compound in rural Hawaii
or a Taliban village set on some inaccessible reverse slope.

When nailing a house pet to any man's door (or when selecting a rattlesnake
to slip into his bed), try painting a Smiley upon it, lest you appear to be
more than cantankerous, transcending simple dementia, and falling into the
most unforgivable of sins - at least on Usenet - personal meanness. The
distance and anonymity of the ether provides no excuse or capacity for
forgiveness (by others of self) for establishing one's persona as a real
asshole.

TMO

hippo

Re: The Political Compass

Legg inn av hippo » 29 aug 2006 16:59:25

"Renia" wrote in message

[.]

It's the Meme effect. Copying by example.

In a way. It's the reason for it that is important. The extreme of the
personality type lack internal evaluative systems for personal/human
relationships so everything must be adopted/learned from outside. Another
way to look at it is they entirely lack empathy and instead work from mental
behavioral lists by trying to match them up with situations. It's a very
shallow, single dimensional arrangement of which they are unaware. Having no
real understanding of themselves or other people, they think all of us
operate the same way. -the Troll

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