From: Rosie Bevan <rbevan@paradise.net.nz
Date: 2006/08/21 Mon AM 01:42:08 CDT
To:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.comSubject: Re: Coheirs of Robert de Tateshal (dsp 1305/6): a correction
Dear John
I fear you have conflated two John de Dribys.
The IPM of Joan de Driby [CIPM VII, no.241] (writ 15 October 1329)
records that her son, John de Driby (aged 40 years and more), was her
next heir to lands which she held in Norfolk, Leicestershire, and
Lincolnshire, including lands of her Tattershall inheritance. It is
difficult, therefore, to see how John could not have been Joan's son.
John's IPM [CIPM VII, no.590] (writ 20 June 1334) records that as he
left no issue, his sister Alice was his next heir aged 40 years and
more. This Alice died in 1341 [Cal. Fin. Rolls 1337-1347, p.220].
The husband of Amie de Gaveston was John, son of Thomas Driby, whom
Paul Reed identified in "Proving Illegitimacy: Amie, the Daughter of
the King's Favorite, Piers de Gaveston--Not That of His Wife," National
Genealogical Society Quarterly, 88:32-49 (March 2000). The daughter of
this John was Alice de Driby who died in 1412 [CIPM XIX, no.
1031-1035].
As I recall Paul made some posts on this subject in 1999 which should
be available in the archives.
Cheers
Rosie
Therav3@aol.com wrote:
Sunday, 20 August, 2006
Dear Leo, Doug, et al.,
I noted today an entry in the Close Rolls which confirms
certain relationships among the coheirs of Robert de Tateshal,
Lord Tateshal (d.s.p. bef 30 Jan 1305/6), but which also
indicates necessary corrections to the Driby descendants of
Joan de Tateshal as previously understood.
Following is part of the text of an order dated at
Guildford, 18 April 10 Edw. III (1336):
' To the treasurer and barons of the exchequer and to the
chamberlains. Order to cause Adam de Fyncham to be discharged
and released of the issues of the lands delivered to Adam de
Clyfton, William Bernak and Alice his wife as their purparties,
from 18 March last, provided that answer is made to the king
for the issues of the purparty of John de Orreby, a minor in
the king's wardship for the lands demised in the hands of Adam
de Fyncham; as of the lands which Joan, late the wife of
Robert de Tateshale, tenant in chief of Edwar I., who died
while a minor in the said king's wardship, held in dower with
the assent of Adam de Clyfton, kinsman and co-heir of Robert,
of William Bernak, who married Alice, another co-heir, and of
Geoffrey le Scrop, to whom the king granted the custody of the
lands which are of the inheritance of John [de Orreby], third
kinsman and co-heir of Robert, to hold until John came of
age,...' [1]
This entry confirms the Clifton descent (see below), but
indicates the Driby coheir in 1336 was Alice de Driby, daughter
of Sir Robert de Driby and Joan de Tateshal, and wife of Sir
William de Bernake. John de Driby, known best as the husband
of Amie de Gaveston, has to date been considered a son of Sir
Robert by Joan de Tateshal, but it is clear that he was the
descendant of another (evidently 1st) wife of Sir Robert.
Following is a chart reflecting the relationships of the
Tateshal coheirs in 1336. At the time of the IPM in 1305/6,
Thomas de Cailly, Isabel de Tatesal (wife of de Orreby) and
Joan de Tateshal (wife of Robert de Driby) were the coheirs.
[NOTE * : Simon de Driby and John de Driby are shown as issue
of a first wife of Robert de Driby, but it is possible that
Simon d.v.p. and was the son of Joan.]
Ralph fitz Ranulf = 2) Anastasia de Percy
I
I
Robert de Tateshal = Joan 'filia Ranulfi'
Lord Tateshal I 2nd dau. and coheiress
d. bef 8 Sept 1298 I d. ca. 1 Apr 1310
_______________________I___________
I I I I
Robert Emma Isabel 2) Joan = Robert = 1) NN
d. bef = Adam = John I de I
28 Jul de Cailly de I Driby I
1303 I Orreby ______I I
I I I I _________I___
I I I I I I
Robert Margery Philip ALICE Simon John
dsp = Roger de <coheir> = Maud = Amie
bef 30 de Orreby = WILLIAM de de
Jan Clifton I de BERNAKE Nerford Gaveston
1305/6 I I I
I I I
I I V
ADAM JOHN
de CLIFTON de
coheir> ORREBY
= Eleanor de <coheir,
Mortimer minor
I in 1336
I
V
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] CCR Edw. III, A.D. 1330-1333 (10 Edw. III), mem. 32, p. 570.
* John P. Ravilious