Dear Newsgroup ~
Back in 2001, I posted ten reasons why I felt Charles Ward's position
regarding Diana Skipwith was in in error (see copy of earlier post
below). Based on a review of the evidence, I concluded that Diana
Skipwith was the mother of all three of Edward Dale's children. At the
time, Mr. Ward was unable to rebut any of the ten objections I raised.
Unless Mr. Ward has additional evidence to add to the discussion, I
stand by my earlier conclusion.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website:
http://www.royalancestry.net+ + + + + + + + + +
COPY OF EARLIER POST
From:
douglasrichard...@hotmail.comNewsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: Diana SKIPWITH, wife of Edward Dale
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:23:04 GMT
Dear Charles:
Thank you for post below regarding the colonial immigrant, Diana
Skipwith, wife of Major Edward Dale, of Lancaster Co., Virginia. I'd
be glad to share my comments on this matter.
As your recent article in TAG pointed out, Diana Skipwith is known to
have appeared under her maiden name in records dated 1655, whereas her
husband, Edward Dale's eldest daughter, Katherine (Dale) Carter, was
evidently born about 1652. Under normal circumstances, one would
conclude that if Diana witnessed under her maiden name after
Katherine's birth, that Diana couldn't possibly by Katherine's mother.
This would presumably be an open and shut case.
However, there was a rare custom among high born Englishwomen of this
period to use their maiden names after marriage. As the daughter of a
knight and a English baronet, Diana Skipwith was one of the highest
born English women ever to come to the New World. Due to her high
station then, we should not be surprised to see her using her maiden
name after marriage. As such, one must seek other evidence to prove or
disprove whether or not Diana was Katherine's mother. In this case,
there are no less than ten pieces of evidences which suggest that Diana
was Katherine's mother.
First, research indicates that Diana Skipwith was born in 1621, in
England. If she was still single in 1655, as claimed, she would have
contracted her marriage to Edward Dale after she had attained her 34th
year. This is highly unlikely. The vast majority of Englishwomen in
this period were married before their 30th birthday.
Second, statements in print suggest that Diana Skipwith's husband,
Edward Dale, and her brother, Sir Gray Skipwith, may have immigrated at
the same time to Virginia following the death of King Charles I in
1649. If so, it is entirely possible that Diana and Edward were
married in England, prior to their appearance in Virginia.
Third, Katherine (Dale) Carter had a large family which is well
documented in a Carter family prayer book. Among her children, we find
a child named Edward for her father, Diana for her mother, and Henry
Skipwith for her mother's father. Unless Katherine (Dale) Carter was
Diana Skipwith's daughter, it would be difficult to explain the
appearance of the name Henry Skipwith Carter among her children.
Fourth, the names of the godparents of Katherine (Dale) Carter's
children are recorded in the Carter family prayer book. In colonial
times, relatives were often employed to serve as godparents. In this
case, we find that Diana Skipwith herself served as a godmother as did
Diana's brother, Sir Gray Skipwith's widow, Anne Skipwith, of Middlesex
Co., Virginia. It would be odd to find Dame Skipwith as a sponsor for
Katherine (Dale) Carter's child, unless she had some connection to
Katherine (Dale) Carter herself. If Diana Skipwith was Katherine
(Dale) Carter's mother, then Dame Skipwith would have been Katherine
(Dale) Carter's aunt by marriage.
Fifth, there was an long epitaph of Edward Dale's life recorded in the
Carter family prayer book. The epitaph states clearly that Edward Dale
married Diana Skipwith "early in life" and presents her as his only
wife. Presumably the term "early in life" is prior to his 30th
birthday. If so, we must assume that Diana was also no more than 30
years old herself when she married Edward Dale. This suggests a
marriage in or before 1651.
Sixth, the death records of Edward Dale and his widow, Diana, are also
recorded in the same prayer book. No mention is made of any wife for
Edward Dale except Diana Skipwith.
Seventh, Edward Dale's will bequeathed his wife, Diana, a life interest
in certain property and named his daughter, Katherine, and two Carter
grandchildren as his executors. Had Diana been Katherine's step-
mother, the usual protocol would be for Diana to hold the executorship
to safeguard her interests against her step-children's rights. Since
Diana was not named executrix, one must presume that either Diana was
too ill to serve as executrix, or else that Diana was Katherine's own
mother and that Diana did not need to have her interests safeguarded.
Eighth, we find that Diana Skipwith joined her husband, Edward Dale, in
conveyances to two of their married daughters, Katherine and
Elizabeth. This shows that Diana had a strong interest in Katherine
and Elizabeth's future, which one would expect if Diana was their blood
mother.
Ninth, in one of these conveyances, Diana Skipwith names her son-in-
law, Daniel Harrison, who was evidently married to her daughter, Mary
Dale. This reference would suggest that Diana had at least one child
by Edward Dale. If so, under normal circumstances, we would normally
suppose that she married Edward Dale before her 30th birthday which
event took place in 1651. Inasmuch as Katherine Dale was born about
1652, Katherine's birth would appear to fall after Diana was likely to
have been married to Edward Dale.
Tenth, the theory is presented in Mr. Ward's article that Edward Dale
may have had an earlier wife before he married Diana Skipwith by whom
he had his daughters, Katherine and Mary. It is further suggested that
the unknown first wife may have been a relative of Vincent Stanford.
This theory is based on the fact that Vincent Stanford left a sizeable
bequest to Mary Dale in his will. However, it is doubtful that Vincent
Stanford had any blood tie to Mary Dale at all, as in his will, he
carefully referred to another legatee as his niece, whereas he made no
claim to kinship to Mary Dale. Had Mary Dale been related to the
testator, one would presume he would have stated that fact just as he
did for the other legatee who he identified as his niece. Since
Vincent Stanford did not refer to Mary Dale as his kinswoman, it is
inappropriate to conclude that Mary Dale's father might have had
earlier unknown first wife, or that the Dale and Stanford families were
related by blood or marriage.
Regarding the matter of women using their maiden names after marriage,
I've located two contemporary examples of women who used their maiden
names after marriage. One is widow Mary Kemp, of Gloucester Co.,
Virginia who signed two powers of attorney about 1700, one as Mary Kemp
and one as Mary Curtis. The editor of Virginia Magazine of History and
Biography who reported these powers of attorney stated that Curtis
was "doubtless" Mary's maiden name, suggesting that he was aware of the
custom for women to use their maiden name's after marriage. The second
example I've found is a Chancery suit dated about 1610 in England in
which Anne Clere, widow, was sued by the executor of her late husband,
William Gilbert's estate. Research shows that Clere was Anne's maiden
name. A second chancery suit states she remained a widow for three
years and then married (2nd) Okeover Crompton. Like Diana Skipwith,
Anne Clere was the daughter of a knight and came from a family with
high born relations. Anne (Clere) Gilbert is the maternal grandmother
of the colonial immigrant, Elizabeth (Alsop) Baldwin, of Milford,
Connecticut.
In closing, I wish to state that should anyone know of any other
examples of English women using their maiden names after marriage, I
would appreciate it greatly if they would forward those examples to me
for inclusion in an article I'm preparing on Diana Skipwith. Also, I
wish to thank MichaelAnne Guido for her invaluable contribution to the
history of the Skipwith and Dale families. When Ms. Guido learned of
my interest in Diana (Skipwith) Dale, she generously shared her
extensive research files with me. Her files clarified several points
discussed above. I'm most grateful for her assistance. I also wish to
thank Gary Boyd Roberts and Jerome Anderson, both of the New England
Historic Genealogical Society in Boston, and my co-author, Dr. David
Faris, with whom I consulted at length about the Diana Skipwith
problem.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail:
royalances...@msn.comIn article <20010103114758.20164.00001...@ng-cj1.aol.com>,
cmw12...@aol.com (CMW12635) wrote:
Diana Skipwith married Edward DALE, of Lancaster Co., VA. An
article I
composed which was published in the January, 2000 issue of TAG
pointed out
contemporary records which called into question whether Katherine
Dale, Edward
Dale's daughter, could have been a daughter born of his marriage to
Diana
Skipwith.
I'm advised that Mr. Douglas Richardson has researched this topic and
I would
certainly be interested in his comments, etc.
Charles Ward
CMW12...@aol.com
CMW12635@aol.com wrote:
Although no longer subscribed to the Gen-Medieval List, I was informed of a
recent posting by Jeff Chipman which alluded to my January, 2000 TAG article
regarding Katherine (Dale) Carter, wife of Thomas Carter, of Lancaster County,
Virginia. I felt a few comments were in order.
Mr. Chipman is in agreement with my article regarding the maternity of
Katherine (Dale) Carter. However, we differ in our conclusions regarding the other
two Dale daughters.
Mr. Chipman wrote:
"We know from a 1674 Lancaster Co. deed that Elizabeth Dale was Diana
Skipwith's daughter because Diana referred to Mary Dale's husband
(Mary being the middle daughter of Edward Dale and Elizabeth the
youngest) Daniel Harrison as her "Sonne-in-law," proving that Mary
Dale was her daughter."
Based on the previous assumptions made about this family and the mother
identified for Edward Dale's children, I would suggest caution. I do not believe
the 1674 deed reference, by itself, can be cited as sufficient proof to claim t
hat Edward Dale's daughters Mary and Elizabeth, were the children of Diana
Skipwith.
My article in the January, 2000 edition of TAG cites deed records which are
the earliest records I have found which list Diana Skipwith as Edward Dale's
wife. If one could obtain an accurate estimation of either Mary or Elizabeth
Dale's birth dates, this might help to confirm the theory they were the children
of Dale by Diana Skipwith.
As Dale's eldest daughter, Katherine, was the child of Dale by a lady other
than Diana Skipwith and as the birth years of Dale's children, Mary and
Elizabeth, have not been accurately ascertained, and as they likely fall somewhere
close to that period around the time Diana Skipwith married Edward Dale, it
would be premature to definitively state that Mary and Elizabeth were Diana
Skipwith's children.
Mr. Chipman and I have discussed the term "sonne-in-law" in the past. The
term can be somewhat ambiguous during this period and it doesn't necessarily
have the 21st century meaning. I believe it would be necessary to clearly
illustrate the birth year of Mary and Elizabeth Dale before one could confidently
place either as daughters of Edward Dale by Diana Skipwith.
Taking into consideration the dispute regarding any children Edward Dale may
have had by Diana Skipwith, if any, to simply point to the "sonne-in-law"
reference is insufficient.
Charles Ward