I have notes about Margery from a discussion way back in 1998. Here is
a copy below. Douglas, can you give us a clue where to look out for
your article? I'm assuming the descent from Charlemange is through Ida
of Lorraine?
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From:
PEhlers...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 1998/12/31
Subject: deUMFRAVILLE
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse
I discovered today that I had a deUmfraville line. I went to the
archives for
the past 4 years and attempted to work up an ancestry for Margery
deUmfraville, 1st wife of William III d'Aubigny (ca. 1140-1236); Lord
of
Belvoir. Could anyone extend what I have? Thanks in advance for your
kindness.
Regards
Phyllis in Louisiana
1. William IV d'Aubigny; Lord of Belvoir (?-1247)
2. William III d'Aubigny; Lord of Belvoir (ca. 1146-1236)
3. Margery deUmfraville
4. William II "le Breton" d'Aubigny; Lord Belvoir (ca. 1125-?)
5. Maude FitzRobert (Maud de Liz de Clare) (ca. 1134-?)
6. Odonel (Odinel) de Umfraville; Lord of Prudhoe, Northumberland,
England
(?-1182)
7. NN
8. William de Albini Brito
9. Cecily Bigod
10. Robert FitzClare
11. Maud de St. Liz
12. Robert deUmfraville
13. NN
Please feel free to make corrections, additions, etc.
2. GLAUCUSREX Dec 31 1998, 3:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From:
GLAUCUS...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 1998/12/31
Subject: Re: deUMFRAVILLE
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse
In a message dated 12/31/98 1:38:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
PEhlers...@aol.com writes:
I discovered today that I had a deUmfraville line. I went to the
archives
for
the past 4 years and attempted to work up an ancestry for Margery
deUmfraville, 1st wife of William III d'Aubigny (ca. 1140-1236); Lord of
Belvoir. Could anyone extend what I have? Thanks in advance for your
kindness.
Regards
Phyllis in Louisiana
1. William IV d'Aubigny; Lord of Belvoir (?-1247)
2. William III d'Aubigny; Lord of Belvoir (ca. 1146-1236)
3. Margery deUmfraville
4. William II "le Breton" d'Aubigny; Lord Belvoir (ca. 1125-?)
5. Maude FitzRobert (Maud de Liz de Clare) (ca. 1134-?)
6. Odonel (Odinel) de Umfraville; Lord of Prudhoe, Northumberland,
England
(?-1182)
7. NN
8. William de Albini Brito
9. Cecily Bigod
10. Robert FitzClare
11. Maud de St. Liz
12. Robert deUmfraville
13. NN
Please feel free to make corrections, additions, etc.
Phyllis,
Here are some letters that I have collected from the mailing list over
the
last couple years.
Lloyd King
Dallas, Texas, USA
==============================================
Subj: Re: Previous post on de Umfreville Family
Date: 98-10-30 20:14:02 EST
From:
kathl...@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.comTo:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comIn article <4940cb8.3638c...@aol.com>, <FFF...@aol.com> wrote:
I should have included more information on the de Umfreville's I am
researching.
Richard de Umfreville, Lord of Redesdale b circa 1182, died 1226.
R.L.G. Ritchie, _Normans in Scotland_ (Edinburgh, 1954), p. 144: "the
Liberty of Redesdale, granted by the Conqueror to Robert d'Amfreville
[Umfraville], whose son, or perhaps grandson, Robert was one of
David's [king of Scotland] intimates and afterwards, though still
generally resident in Northumberland, received Scottish lands which
passed to his descendants. [note] Robert d'Umphraville witnesses Earl
David's Foundation Charter of Selkirk (c. 1120) and his Royal charters
from 1128. . . . Robert's two sons, Odinel and Gilbert, also witness
charters, chiefly those given by David's son Henry as Earl of
Northumberland. Odinel witnesses the Annandale Forest charter, 1147 x
1153. The family properties in Scotland in King David's time are not
precisely known, but Gilbert gave to the Abbey of Holyrood a
ploughgate of land in Kinard. A Gilbert d'Umphraville married c. 1240
Matilda, Countess of Angus in her own right. He passed on the title to
his descendants till it lapsed, in 1381. Another Gilbert d'Umphraville
held (and forfeited) Dunipace in the reign of Robert the Bruce. It is
to be supposed that David's friends received from him Dunipace and
Kinard (Stirlingshire)."
I.J. Sanders, _English Baronies_ (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960), p.
73: "Prudhoe, Northumberland. The descendants of Robert I de
Umfraville claimed that he was granted Redesdale, Northumberland, by
William the Conqueror. Robert II, son and heir, to whom Henry I
granted Prudhoe, d. circa 1145 leaving Odinel I, the date of whose
death is not known. [note: _Fees_, p. 201; Round, _Peerage and
Pedigree_, i. p. 297; _Hist. of Northumberland_, xii, p. 82. Robert II
witnessed charters to circa 1145 (Lawrie, _Early Scottish Charters_,
passim).] Odinel II d. 1182 leaving Robert III d.s.p. Mich. 1190-Mich.
1194. [note: _Pipe Roll, 28 Hen. II_, p. 37; idem, _2 Rich. I_, p. 19;
idem, _6 Rich. I_, p. 134. No charter was returned to the king in
1166. Scutage in the twelfth century was charged on 2 knights' fees.
The demand made for the first scutage of King John (1199-1200) was
charged on from 2 to 2-1/2 knights' fees and later scutages were paid
on the latter amount (idem, _8 Hen. II_, p. 11; idem, _14 Hen. II_, p.
172; idem, _18 Hen. II_, p. 68; idem, _1John_, pp. 122, 123; idem,
_2John_, p. 5; idem, _13 John_, p. 209; Pipe Roll, E. 372/68, N'humb.;
idem, E. 372/90, N'humb.; idem, E. 372/123, N'humb.; _Fees_, p. 201).
Odinel II m. Alice, da. of the justiciar Richard de Lucy.] Richard,
br. and heir, d. 1226 and was followed by Gilbert I d. 1245. [note:
_Calendar of Documents Relating to Scotland_ (PRO) i., nos. 946, 950,
1663-4, 1667; _Excerpta e Rotulis Finium_, ed. C. Roberts, 1835-6, i,
pp. 153, 433; _Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem_ (PRO) i, no. 49.
Gilbert I, who was charged #100 relief, m. Maud suo jure Countess of
Angus.] Gilbert II, son and heir, became, by right of his mother, Earl
of Angus. He d. 1307 leaving Robert IV d. 1325 when Gilbert III, who
came of age in 1331, was heir. [note: Idem, v, no. 47; idem, vi, no.
607; _Calendar of Close Rolls 1330-3_ (PRO), p. 248. Prudhoe was held
for the service of 2-1/2 knights' fees. Gilbert II m. Elizabeth da. of
Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan. Robert IV m. Lucy da. of Philip de
Kyme d. 1323."
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor |Email:
kathl...@casbs.stanford.EDUCASBS, 75 Alta Rd. |Phone: (650) 321-2052
Stanford, CA 94305 |Fax: (650) 321-1192
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.com
Received: from rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com
[172.31.41.5]) by
air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v51.9) with SMTP; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:14:01
-0500
Received: from bl-30.rootsweb.com (bl-30.rootsweb.com [207.113.245.30])
by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id UAA28540;
Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:13:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: (from slist@localhost)
by bl-30.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28448;
Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:13:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:13:00 -0800 (PST)
Old-To:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comDate: 31 Oct 1998 01:06:38 GMT
From:
kathl...@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Message-ID: <71dnqu$bq...@nntp.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.comReferences: <4940cb8.3638c...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Previous post on de Umfreville Family
Resent-Message-ID: <"q1MmRC.A.H7G.SQmO2"@bl-30.rootsweb.com
To:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comResent-From:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comX-Mailing-List: <GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/13235
X-Loop:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comPrecedence: list
Resent-Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.com==============================================
Subj: Re: de Lucy
Date: 98-09-18 06:55:51 EDT
From:
r...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Richard Borthwick)
Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.comTo:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comAt 09:28 AM 18/09/98 +0800, you wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
Old-To:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comDate: 17 Sep 1998 18:19:03 -0700
From:
j...@midas.millcomm.com (Benjamin Hertzel)
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.comSubject: de Lucy
Resent-Message-ID: <"G1HY8B.A.0tE.9XbA2"@bl-30.rootsweb.com
To:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comResent-From:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comX-Mailing-List: <GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/11837
X-Loop:
GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.comResent-Sender:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-requ...@rootsweb.comDoes anyone have any information on the de Lucy family? I have three
Maud
de Lucys, but I do not know how they are related:
Maud de Lucy, daughter of Thomas de Lucy and Mary de Multon. Maud
married
Henry Percy (1341 - 1408). Children?
Maud de Lucy, married Gilbert de Umfreville, Earl of Angus (died 1381).
Children?
These two Mauds were one and the same. Her first husband was Gilbert
(and
his second wife) and her second was Henry first earl of Northumberland
(and
was his second wife). Maud dsp.[CP I:150, VIII:254, IX:712]. The Lucy
family
to which she belonged was the Lucy of Egremont (Cumberland). It is
thought
this family was closely related to the Lucy of Diss (Norfolk)but the
nature
of the connection is not known [but see CP VIII:247 note (c)]. The son
of
Gilbert, Robert, was by Gilbert's first wife and Robert dvp and sp. The
Umfreville descent was through earl Gilbert's brother, Thomas [CP
I:150-151].
Maud de Lucy, daughter of Richard de Lucy, married Walter FitzRobert de
Clare (died 1198). They were the parents of Robert and Alice.
Maud de Lucy received Diss. Her brother Geoffrey (I) dvp and his son,
Richard, succeeded his grandfather, Richard the justiciar. Geoffrey (I)
also
had a daughter Rohese and she succeeded her brother Richard. Geoffrey
(II)
was a son of Geoffrey (I) but was either by another marriage or
illegitimate. In any case the Lucy family of Newington descends from
Geoffrey (II) [CP VIII:257-263, see 257 note (c)]. Rohese de Lucy
married
John de Dover (d.about 1194) lord of Chilham, Kent [Sanders, 111].
An interesting sidelight. Alice, another dau. of Richard de Lucy of
Diss
(the justiciar) m. Odinel (II) de Umfreville (d.1182) of Prudhoe,
Northumberland.This pair were the ancestors of Gilbert who m. Maud de
Lucy
(of the Egremont family). [Sanders, 73].
Douglas Richardson
royalancestry@msn.com wrote:
Dear Will ~
You are of course correct. Yes., I made an error. Thank you for
pointing out the mistake.
Margaret (or Margery) de Umfreville's maternal grandmother (not mother)
was Rohese of Boulogne, wife of Sir Richard de Lucy, Chief Justiciar of
England.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website:
http://www.royalancestry.netWJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/21/05 12:47:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
royalancestry@msn.com writes:
... William d'Aubeney's wife was Margaret (or Margery) de
Umfreville,
daughter of Odinel de Umfreville, of Prudhoe,
Northumberland, by Alice, daughter of Richard de Lucy, Knt., of
Chipping
Ongar, Essex, Chief Justiciar of England.
... Margaret's mother, Rohese of Boulogne, wife of Sir Richard de
Lucy ....
Doug I'm confused it seems like you are saying that
1) Margaret de Umfreville was daughter of Odinel by Alice de Lucy
2) Alice de Lucy was daughter of Richard de Lucy
3) Margaret's mother was Rohese of Boulogne, wife of Richard de Lucy.
These three statements don't seem to be able to go together.
Thanks
Will Johnson