Blount-Ayala
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Edmund de Lacy marriage (WJhonson
Dear Newsgroup ~
I have volume 4 of Annales Monastici here on my desk, which volume was
cited as a source for the death of Margaret de Lacy, Countess of
Lincoln, by Louise Wilkinson. Checking page 456, it shows that the
death of Margaret de Lacy, Countess of Lincoln, to be recorded under
the year 1266 in the Annals of Worcester:
"MCCLXVI [1266]. Obiit Margareta comitissa Lincolniae." END OF
QUOTE.
The citation for the above item (which was missed by Complete Peerage)
would be:
Henry Richards Luard, Annales Monastici, 4 (Rolls Series 36) (1869):
456 (Annals of Worcester sub A.D. 1266-"Obiit Margareta comitissa
Lincolniæ.").
There is evidently another record of the Countess' death in the same
series, vol. 2, pg. 104 (Annals of Winchester), which Complete Peerage
cites and which I haven't yet seen.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
I have volume 4 of Annales Monastici here on my desk, which volume was
cited as a source for the death of Margaret de Lacy, Countess of
Lincoln, by Louise Wilkinson. Checking page 456, it shows that the
death of Margaret de Lacy, Countess of Lincoln, to be recorded under
the year 1266 in the Annals of Worcester:
"MCCLXVI [1266]. Obiit Margareta comitissa Lincolniae." END OF
QUOTE.
The citation for the above item (which was missed by Complete Peerage)
would be:
Henry Richards Luard, Annales Monastici, 4 (Rolls Series 36) (1869):
456 (Annals of Worcester sub A.D. 1266-"Obiit Margareta comitissa
Lincolniæ.").
There is evidently another record of the Countess' death in the same
series, vol. 2, pg. 104 (Annals of Winchester), which Complete Peerage
cites and which I haven't yet seen.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
-
WJhonson
Re: Margaret de Quiney
<<In a message dated 07/04/07 20:54:20 Pacific Standard Time, dolores85374@cox.net writes:
On the list for James Cudworth down to Margaret de Quincy, in the 9th generation Leo, (Lionel) born 1438/42, died 29 March 1461, 6th Baron Welles married to Joan de Waterton.
I have Leo (Lionel) de Welles born 1406 died 29 March 1461 at the Battle of Townton. Married to Margaret de Beauchamp. >>
Dolores the dates you see there 1438-42 are the years he was Governor of Ireland, not the year-range of his birth.
Will Johnson
On the list for James Cudworth down to Margaret de Quincy, in the 9th generation Leo, (Lionel) born 1438/42, died 29 March 1461, 6th Baron Welles married to Joan de Waterton.
I have Leo (Lionel) de Welles born 1406 died 29 March 1461 at the Battle of Townton. Married to Margaret de Beauchamp. >>
Dolores the dates you see there 1438-42 are the years he was Governor of Ireland, not the year-range of his birth.
Will Johnson
-
Merilyn Pedrick
Re: Margaret de Quincy's descent to any immigrant
And here's another one:
Gen. James Cudworth b. 1612 m. Mary Parker
Mary Machell b. 1574 m. Rev. Ralph Cudworth
Mary Lewknor m. 1568 m. Matthew Machell
Edward Lewknor b. 1521 m. Dorothy Wroth
Margaret Copley b. 1469 m. Edward Lewknor
Ann Hoo b. 1447 m. Roger Copley of Roughey, Sussex
Eleanor Welles m. Thomas Hoo, 1st Baron Hoo
Lionel Welles, 6th Baron Welles b. 1406 m. Joan Waterton
Eudo de Welles b. 1421 m. Maud de Greystoke
Lady Eleanor Mowbray b. 1364 m. John de Welles, 5th Lord Welles
John, 4th Lord Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk b. 1340 m. Elizabeth de Segrave
John, 3rd Lord de Mowbray of Thirsk b. 1310 m. Joan of Lancaster
John, 2nd Lord de Mowbray b. 1286 m. Aline/Alive de Braose
Rose de Clare m. 1270 m. Roger 1st Baron de Mowbray
Maud de Lacy d. 1287 m. Sir Richard IV de Clare
Margaret de Quincy m. 1221 m. John de Lacy
Merilyn Pedrick
-------Original Message-------
From: WJhonson
Date: 07/05/07 08:16:22
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Margaret de Quincy's descent to any immigrant
Here is one descent laid out:
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index
php/Margaret_de_Quincy_to_James_Cudworth
-------------------------------
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Gen. James Cudworth b. 1612 m. Mary Parker
Mary Machell b. 1574 m. Rev. Ralph Cudworth
Mary Lewknor m. 1568 m. Matthew Machell
Edward Lewknor b. 1521 m. Dorothy Wroth
Margaret Copley b. 1469 m. Edward Lewknor
Ann Hoo b. 1447 m. Roger Copley of Roughey, Sussex
Eleanor Welles m. Thomas Hoo, 1st Baron Hoo
Lionel Welles, 6th Baron Welles b. 1406 m. Joan Waterton
Eudo de Welles b. 1421 m. Maud de Greystoke
Lady Eleanor Mowbray b. 1364 m. John de Welles, 5th Lord Welles
John, 4th Lord Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk b. 1340 m. Elizabeth de Segrave
John, 3rd Lord de Mowbray of Thirsk b. 1310 m. Joan of Lancaster
John, 2nd Lord de Mowbray b. 1286 m. Aline/Alive de Braose
Rose de Clare m. 1270 m. Roger 1st Baron de Mowbray
Maud de Lacy d. 1287 m. Sir Richard IV de Clare
Margaret de Quincy m. 1221 m. John de Lacy
Merilyn Pedrick
-------Original Message-------
From: WJhonson
Date: 07/05/07 08:16:22
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Margaret de Quincy's descent to any immigrant
Here is one descent laid out:
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index
php/Margaret_de_Quincy_to_James_Cudworth
-------------------------------
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GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Tim Cartmell
Re: Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick, Knt. of Fenwic
Dear John & Listers,
Thanks for the link information, much appreciated. The De Banco Roll reference can also be found in this digital library, under Vol. 6, naming Henry Fenwick's mother as Margaret in 1407.
The Inquest Post Mortem is certainly interesting in the fact that there were a few members of the Percy family present at Henry's baptism. The witness in 1426 stated,
"Robert Swynburn, aged 50, came into the curch and prosecutus fuit unam billam Henrico comiti Northumbrie, last deceased, one of Henry's godfathers, at the time of his baptism."
For the Latin experts, am I correct in thinking that this statement reads that the old earl himself was present at Henry Fenwick's baptism?
"Laurence de Acton (48) was in the church and saw Henry Percy d' Athell his other godfather, give him directly he had been baptised, a silver cup with a cover, and to his nurse 6s. 8d."
"William Elison (50) saw Thomas Percy, Knight give to Henry directly he had been baptised, 40s. and to his nurse 6s. 8d. for joy of his birth."
Just one further comment, in the published book, Kings in the North, The House of Percy in British History, by author Alexander Rose, published 2002, states that "Henry Percy's wife Margaret Neville died mid May 1372, possibly due to the conditions of child birth, specifically twins named Alan and Margaret, however nothing further is known about them."
It is certainly chronologically plausible that the earl's daughter Margaret b: 1372 could have been the mother of Sir Henry Fenwick, Knt., the Sheriff of Northumberland and Cumberland.
Thanks,
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
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Thanks for the link information, much appreciated. The De Banco Roll reference can also be found in this digital library, under Vol. 6, naming Henry Fenwick's mother as Margaret in 1407.
The Inquest Post Mortem is certainly interesting in the fact that there were a few members of the Percy family present at Henry's baptism. The witness in 1426 stated,
"Robert Swynburn, aged 50, came into the curch and prosecutus fuit unam billam Henrico comiti Northumbrie, last deceased, one of Henry's godfathers, at the time of his baptism."
For the Latin experts, am I correct in thinking that this statement reads that the old earl himself was present at Henry Fenwick's baptism?
"Laurence de Acton (48) was in the church and saw Henry Percy d' Athell his other godfather, give him directly he had been baptised, a silver cup with a cover, and to his nurse 6s. 8d."
"William Elison (50) saw Thomas Percy, Knight give to Henry directly he had been baptised, 40s. and to his nurse 6s. 8d. for joy of his birth."
Just one further comment, in the published book, Kings in the North, The House of Percy in British History, by author Alexander Rose, published 2002, states that "Henry Percy's wife Margaret Neville died mid May 1372, possibly due to the conditions of child birth, specifically twins named Alan and Margaret, however nothing further is known about them."
It is certainly chronologically plausible that the earl's daughter Margaret b: 1372 could have been the mother of Sir Henry Fenwick, Knt., the Sheriff of Northumberland and Cumberland.
Thanks,
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
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Gjest
Re: C.P. Addition: Death and burial of Alice de Lusignan, wi
Dear Newsgroup ~
I might add that the identity of Alice de Lusignan, Countess of
Surrey, is likewise attested by her very death record in Lewes Annals,
which states that Countess Alice was buried before the high altar at
Lewes Priory "in the presence of her brother, Aymer, [bishop] elect of
Winchester."
For a brief biography of Countess Alice's notorious brother, Aymer de
Valence, Bishop elect of Winchester (died 1260), see the following
weblink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymer_de_Valence
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
I might add that the identity of Alice de Lusignan, Countess of
Surrey, is likewise attested by her very death record in Lewes Annals,
which states that Countess Alice was buried before the high altar at
Lewes Priory "in the presence of her brother, Aymer, [bishop] elect of
Winchester."
For a brief biography of Countess Alice's notorious brother, Aymer de
Valence, Bishop elect of Winchester (died 1260), see the following
weblink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymer_de_Valence
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
-
David Teague
RE: Luria
What's much more to the point is that Geza Vermes' _Who's Who in the Age of
Jesus_ says pretty much the same thing, IIRC.
David Teague
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/ ... pcmag_0507
Jesus_ says pretty much the same thing, IIRC.
David Teague
From: "MLS" <mlupis@genmarenostrum.com
Reply-To: mlupis@genmarenostrum.com
To: "'WJhonson'" <wjhonson@aol.com>, "'Gen-Medieval'"
gen-medieval-l@rootsweb.com>, <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: Luria
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:41:31 +0200
Wikipedia ??!!
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of WJhonson
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:31 AM
To: Gen-Medieval; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Luria
What is the source for this parentage for Hillel?
Wikipedia does not have it, and states that his specific ancestry, even
the name of his father, is unknown.
Will Johnson
-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/ ... pcmag_0507
-
Gjest
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
<<In a message dated 7/7/2007 1:10:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
doosje@hotmail.com writes:
Daniel Finch 1647-1730 was married:
16 June 1674 Essex Rich, died b. 1652-d. march 1684
29 December 1685 Anne Hatton 1668-1743.
By his first wife he had 8 children
By his second wife he had 22 children.
See http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/6.html
Can someone give me an list with dates for these children?>>
If you read the ODNB article again, I don't think it actually it clear that
THEY had 22 children. Only the SHE had 22 children. Anne Hatton that is.
Since she was *significantly* younger than her husband, I submit that these 22
may have been spread over many husbands. A good place to start is with
genealogics and also check what the Ancestral File on familysearch shows. I
would also think that something like Burke's Peerage might make a stab at
listing them.
Will
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
doosje@hotmail.com writes:
Daniel Finch 1647-1730 was married:
16 June 1674 Essex Rich, died b. 1652-d. march 1684
29 December 1685 Anne Hatton 1668-1743.
By his first wife he had 8 children
By his second wife he had 22 children.
See http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/6.html
Can someone give me an list with dates for these children?>>
If you read the ODNB article again, I don't think it actually it clear that
THEY had 22 children. Only the SHE had 22 children. Anne Hatton that is.
Since she was *significantly* younger than her husband, I submit that these 22
may have been spread over many husbands. A good place to start is with
genealogics and also check what the Ancestral File on familysearch shows. I
would also think that something like Burke's Peerage might make a stab at
listing them.
Will
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
Gjest
Re: Luria
In a message dated 7/7/2007 7:29:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
davteague@hotmail.com writes:
What's much more to the point is that Geza Vermes' _Who's Who in the Age of
Jesus_ says pretty much the same thing, IIRC.>>
I think the parentage is late and legendary though. Geza or no.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
davteague@hotmail.com writes:
What's much more to the point is that Geza Vermes' _Who's Who in the Age of
Jesus_ says pretty much the same thing, IIRC.>>
I think the parentage is late and legendary though. Geza or no.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
David Teague
Re: Luria
That, Will, is precisely Vermes' point: that (in line with the information
reported in Wikipedia) we simply don't know Hillel's parentage, or even all
that much about the man himself, even if we accept the Talmudic sources on
him, which are c. 300-400 years later than the man.
My apologies if that wasn't clear from my use of the preexisting post. I was
catching up on my email after an extremely crowded period in my life,
including a medical emergency in my household.
David Teague
_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?s ... linkjuly07
reported in Wikipedia) we simply don't know Hillel's parentage, or even all
that much about the man himself, even if we accept the Talmudic sources on
him, which are c. 300-400 years later than the man.
My apologies if that wasn't clear from my use of the preexisting post. I was
catching up on my email after an extremely crowded period in my life,
including a medical emergency in my household.
David Teague
From: WJhonson@aol.com
To: davteague@hotmail.com, mlupis@genmarenostrum.com,
gen-medieval-l@rootsweb.com, gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Luria
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:04:59 EDT
In a message dated 7/7/2007 7:29:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
davteague@hotmail.com writes:
What's much more to the point is that Geza Vermes' _Who's Who in the Age
of
Jesus_ says pretty much the same thing, IIRC.
I think the parentage is late and legendary though. Geza or no.
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?s ... linkjuly07
-
Ford Mommaerts-Browne
Re: Luria
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Teague" <davteague@hotmail.com>
To: <WJhonson@aol.com>; <mlupis@genmarenostrum.com>; <gen-medieval-l@rootsweb.com>; <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Luria
: That, Will, is precisely Vermes' point: that (in line with the information
: reported in Wikipedia) we simply don't know Hillel's parentage, or even all
: that much about the man himself, even if we accept the Talmudic sources on
: him, which are c. 300-400 years later than the man.
:
: David Teague
:
Hillel knew his pedigree. Unfortunately, we know only what has survived: He was male-line Benjamin, and female-line David; but not Shlomo, (Solomon). We lnow his brother's name, and we have his descendants. That's it. If any were mislead by the post I sent as a curiosity, I apologize.
Rashi was descended from David, (via Hillel), in the female line, and all of his descendants are in the distaff line. Therefore, even DNA won't help to prove anything.
Ford
From: "David Teague" <davteague@hotmail.com>
To: <WJhonson@aol.com>; <mlupis@genmarenostrum.com>; <gen-medieval-l@rootsweb.com>; <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Luria
: That, Will, is precisely Vermes' point: that (in line with the information
: reported in Wikipedia) we simply don't know Hillel's parentage, or even all
: that much about the man himself, even if we accept the Talmudic sources on
: him, which are c. 300-400 years later than the man.
:
: David Teague
:
Hillel knew his pedigree. Unfortunately, we know only what has survived: He was male-line Benjamin, and female-line David; but not Shlomo, (Solomon). We lnow his brother's name, and we have his descendants. That's it. If any were mislead by the post I sent as a curiosity, I apologize.
Rashi was descended from David, (via Hillel), in the female line, and all of his descendants are in the distaff line. Therefore, even DNA won't help to prove anything.
Ford
-
alden@mindspring.com
Re: C.P. Addition: Death and burial of Alice de Lusignan, wi
On Jul 7, 1:55 pm, royalances...@msn.com wrote:
Did John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey die in 1304 or 1310? You used
both dates in these posts.
Doug Smith
Dear Newsgroup ~
I might add that the identity of Alice de Lusignan, Countess of
Surrey, is likewise attested by her very death record in Lewes Annals,
which states that Countess Alice was buried before the high altar at
Lewes Priory "in the presence of her brother, Aymer, [bishop] elect of
Winchester."
For a brief biography of Countess Alice's notorious brother, Aymer de
Valence, Bishop elect of Winchester (died 1260), see the following
weblink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymer_de_Valence
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Did John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey die in 1304 or 1310? You used
both dates in these posts.
Doug Smith
-
the_verminator@comcast.ne
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
On Jul 7, 10:57 pm, WJhon...@aol.com wrote:
While she was younger the question is how long were they married?
If she didn't remarry until after his death in 1730 then she would
have been 45 yrs old at that time and would have been married to him
for 45 years- a bit old to be starting a second family.
On the other hand, if his first wife had 8 children in 10 years of
marriage then 16 in 20 years isn't out of the question or 24 in 30
years.
If her first child was born in Sept 1686 and she had a child every 13
months her last child would have been born in June 1718 - at which
time she would have been 40 yearrs of age.
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.
In a message dated 7/7/2007 1:10:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
doo...@hotmail.com writes:
Daniel Finch 1647-1730 was married:
16 June 1674 Essex Rich, died b. 1652-d. march 1684
29 December 1685 Anne Hatton 1668-1743.
By his first wife he had 8 children
By his second wife he had 22 children.
See http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/6.html
Can someone give me an list with dates for these children?
If you read the ODNB article again, I don't think it actually it clear that
THEY had 22 children. Only the SHE had 22 children. Anne Hatton that is.
Since she was *significantly* younger than her husband, I submit that these 22
may have been spread over many husbands. A good place to start is with
genealogics and also check what the Ancestral File on familysearch shows. I
would also think that something like Burke's Peerage might make a stab at
listing them.
Will
************************************** See what's free athttp://www.aol.com.
While she was younger the question is how long were they married?
If she didn't remarry until after his death in 1730 then she would
have been 45 yrs old at that time and would have been married to him
for 45 years- a bit old to be starting a second family.
On the other hand, if his first wife had 8 children in 10 years of
marriage then 16 in 20 years isn't out of the question or 24 in 30
years.
If her first child was born in Sept 1686 and she had a child every 13
months her last child would have been born in June 1718 - at which
time she would have been 40 yearrs of age.
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.
-
Tim Cartmell
Re: Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick, Knt. of Fenwic
Dear Listers,
Just a follow up to my previous message regarding Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick of Fenwick Tower, mother of Sir Henry Fenwick, this is what I discovered searching through Google Books;
http://books.google.com/books?id=QCcSAA ... ick&pgis=1
Thanks,
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
Just a follow up to my previous message regarding Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick of Fenwick Tower, mother of Sir Henry Fenwick, this is what I discovered searching through Google Books;
http://books.google.com/books?id=QCcSAA ... ick&pgis=1
Thanks,
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
-
the_verminator@comcast.ne
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
On Jul 9, 2:14 am, WJhon...@aol.com wrote:
Indeed there is; but who has *declared* there was no other marriage?
I've simply said I see no evidence that would lead to the assumption
of another marriage - especially since Anne had at least one multiple
birth ( twins in May 1699) by Finch and was having children by him as
late as 1706.
In a message dated 7/8/2007 9:55:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
the_vermina...@comcast.net writes:
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.
There's a vast terrain seperating assuming a marriage, and *declaring* there
was no other marriage.
Isn't there?
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free athttp://www.aol.com.
Indeed there is; but who has *declared* there was no other marriage?
I've simply said I see no evidence that would lead to the assumption
of another marriage - especially since Anne had at least one multiple
birth ( twins in May 1699) by Finch and was having children by him as
late as 1706.
-
Gjest
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
In a message dated 7/8/2007 9:55:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
the_verminator@comcast.net writes:
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.>>
There's a vast terrain seperating assuming a marriage, and *declaring* there
was no other marriage.
Isn't there?
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
the_verminator@comcast.net writes:
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.>>
There's a vast terrain seperating assuming a marriage, and *declaring* there
was no other marriage.
Isn't there?
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
I would like to trace my ancestors to William the Conqueror, but that is
just wishful thinking (sigh). In her family this may well have been said,
but that doesn't make it fact. Winston Churchill believed he had red Indian
ancestors, but he didn't..................
If possible I would love to enter more ancestors of Wallis
Simpson........whether they reach William the Conqueror or not.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
just wishful thinking (sigh). In her family this may well have been said,
but that doesn't make it fact. Winston Churchill believed he had red Indian
ancestors, but he didn't..................
If possible I would love to enter more ancestors of Wallis
Simpson........whether they reach William the Conqueror or not.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
I have seen hints and scraps but nothing definite on the distant ancestry
of
Wallis Warfield "The Woman who Cost a Kingdom" as Time magazine says.
Leo only has a few generations on her and Wargs although in the Obama
article lists some of her ancestors doesn't seem to touch on her royal
lineage (if
any)
But the Time article states that both sides of her family liked to traced
themselves from William the Conqueror, so there is definitely something
there to
find.
Anyone know?
Thanks
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
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-
the_verminator@comcast.ne
Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
On Jul 9, 3:32 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Leo, for what it is worth here is a link.
http://www.gencircles.com/users/llroe/1/data/9255
I would like to trace my ancestors to William the Conqueror, but that is
just wishful thinking (sigh). In her family this may well have been said,
but that doesn't make it fact. Winston Churchill believed he had red Indian
ancestors, but he didn't..................
If possible I would love to enter more ancestors of Wallis
Simpson........whether they reach William the Conqueror or not.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhon...@aol.com
To: <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
I have seen hints and scraps but nothing definite on the distant ancestry
of
Wallis Warfield "The Woman who Cost a Kingdom" as Time magazine says.
Leo only has a few generations on her and Wargs although in the Obama
article lists some of her ancestors doesn't seem to touch on her royal
lineage (if
any)
But the Time article states that both sides of her family liked to traced
themselves from William the Conqueror, so there is definitely something
there to
find.
Anyone know?
Thanks
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
-------------------------------
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GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Leo, for what it is worth here is a link.
http://www.gencircles.com/users/llroe/1/data/9255
-
Rashid Amora
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
This is what i have for so far:
escendants of Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
-----------------------------------------------------
1-Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 2 Jul 1647, Lincoln, Lincoln,
England, d. 21 Jan 1730, Lincoln, Lincoln, England, bur. Ravenstone,
Buckingham, England
+Essex Rich (Holland & Warwick) b. 1652, Warwick, England, d. 8 Mar 1684,
Lincoln, Lincoln, England, bur. 1684, Ravenstone, Buckingham, England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 19 Apr 1675, Ravenstone,
| Buckinghamshire, England, d. 28 Jan 1676, bur. 29 Jan 1676, Saint-Mary
| Abbott's, Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 May 1676, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 4 Feb 1678, bur. 5 Feb 1678, Saint-Mary
Abbott's,
| Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Mary Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 May 1677, Nottingham,
England,
| c. 18 May 1677, d. 19 Sep 1718
|--2-Letitia Isabella Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 20 May 1678,
| Ravenstone, Buckingham, England, d. 28 May 1680, bur. Saint-Mary
Abbott's,
| Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Anne Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 5 Feb 1680, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 5 Apr 1680
|--2-Heneage Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Mar 1681, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 27 Aug 1682
|--2-John Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 Jun 1682
|--2-Essex Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 19 Mar 1684, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 29 Mar 1684
+Anne Hatton b. 9 Oct 1668, Warwick, England, d. 26 Sep 1743
|--2-N1 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N2 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N3 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N4 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N5 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-Heneage Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 6 Apr 1687, Eastwell, Kent,
| England, c. 24 Apr 1687, Kensington, Middlesex, England, d. 15 Oct
1701,
| bur. 21 Oct 1701
|--2-Essex Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 8 Mar 1688, d. 23 May 1721
|--2-Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 24 May 1689, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 2 Aug 1769, Fulham, Middlesex, England, bur.
| Ravenstone, Buckingham, England
|--2-William Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 Jan 1691,
Berkshire-house,
| c. 9 Feb 1691, Kensington, Middlesex, England, d. 25 Dec 1766
|--2-John Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1692, Eastwell, Kent, England,
d.
| 12 Feb 1763
|--2-Henry Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1694, Eastwell, Kent, England,
d.
| 26 May 1761
|--2-Anne Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 Dec 1695, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 7 Jun 1711
|--2-Edward Finch-Hatton (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1697, d. 16 May 1771
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 14 Apr 1698, d. Bef 1703
|--2-Charles Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 25 Apr 1699, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 31 Mar 1701
|--2-Cecilia Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 4 May 1700, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 1 Mar 1771
|--2-Mary Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1701, d. 30 May 1761
|--2-Henrietta Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Abt 1703, d. 14 Apr 1742,
| bur. 18 Apr 1742, Westminster Abbey, Westminster, London, Middlesex,
| England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 May 1704, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 10 Apr 1784
|--2-Frances Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1 Jun 1705, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 30 Aug 1715
|--2-Margaret Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 7 Nov 1706, Eastwell, Kent,
| England, d. 25 Jan 1720
|--2-Charlotte Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Abt 1711, Winchelsea,
Sussex,
| England, d. 21 Jan 1773, bur. 30 Jan 1773, Chiswick, Hounslow,
Middlesex,
| England
+(Mistress) Francesca Margherita de L'Epine d. 1746
<the_verminator@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:1183968804.073436.258390@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
escendants of Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
-----------------------------------------------------
1-Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 2 Jul 1647, Lincoln, Lincoln,
England, d. 21 Jan 1730, Lincoln, Lincoln, England, bur. Ravenstone,
Buckingham, England
+Essex Rich (Holland & Warwick) b. 1652, Warwick, England, d. 8 Mar 1684,
Lincoln, Lincoln, England, bur. 1684, Ravenstone, Buckingham, England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 19 Apr 1675, Ravenstone,
| Buckinghamshire, England, d. 28 Jan 1676, bur. 29 Jan 1676, Saint-Mary
| Abbott's, Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 May 1676, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 4 Feb 1678, bur. 5 Feb 1678, Saint-Mary
Abbott's,
| Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Mary Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 May 1677, Nottingham,
England,
| c. 18 May 1677, d. 19 Sep 1718
|--2-Letitia Isabella Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 20 May 1678,
| Ravenstone, Buckingham, England, d. 28 May 1680, bur. Saint-Mary
Abbott's,
| Kensington, Middlesex, England
|--2-Anne Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 5 Feb 1680, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 5 Apr 1680
|--2-Heneage Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Mar 1681, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 27 Aug 1682
|--2-John Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 Jun 1682
|--2-Essex Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 19 Mar 1684, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 29 Mar 1684
+Anne Hatton b. 9 Oct 1668, Warwick, England, d. 26 Sep 1743
|--2-N1 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N2 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N3 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N4 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-N5 Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham)
|--2-Heneage Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 6 Apr 1687, Eastwell, Kent,
| England, c. 24 Apr 1687, Kensington, Middlesex, England, d. 15 Oct
1701,
| bur. 21 Oct 1701
|--2-Essex Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 8 Mar 1688, d. 23 May 1721
|--2-Daniel Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 24 May 1689, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 2 Aug 1769, Fulham, Middlesex, England, bur.
| Ravenstone, Buckingham, England
|--2-William Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 18 Jan 1691,
Berkshire-house,
| c. 9 Feb 1691, Kensington, Middlesex, England, d. 25 Dec 1766
|--2-John Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1692, Eastwell, Kent, England,
d.
| 12 Feb 1763
|--2-Henry Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1694, Eastwell, Kent, England,
d.
| 26 May 1761
|--2-Anne Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 Dec 1695, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 7 Jun 1711
|--2-Edward Finch-Hatton (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1697, d. 16 May 1771
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 14 Apr 1698, d. Bef 1703
|--2-Charles Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 25 Apr 1699, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 31 Mar 1701
|--2-Cecilia Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 4 May 1700, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 1 Mar 1771
|--2-Mary Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1701, d. 30 May 1761
|--2-Henrietta Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Abt 1703, d. 14 Apr 1742,
| bur. 18 Apr 1742, Westminster Abbey, Westminster, London, Middlesex,
| England
|--2-Elizabeth Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 11 May 1704, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 10 Apr 1784
|--2-Frances Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 1 Jun 1705, Ravenstone,
| Buckingham, England, d. 30 Aug 1715
|--2-Margaret Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. 7 Nov 1706, Eastwell, Kent,
| England, d. 25 Jan 1720
|--2-Charlotte Finch (Winchilsea & Nottingham) b. Abt 1711, Winchelsea,
Sussex,
| England, d. 21 Jan 1773, bur. 30 Jan 1773, Chiswick, Hounslow,
Middlesex,
| England
+(Mistress) Francesca Margherita de L'Epine d. 1746
<the_verminator@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:1183968804.073436.258390@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 9, 2:14 am, WJhon...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/8/2007 9:55:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
the_vermina...@comcast.net writes:
I see no reason to assume any marriages for Ann other than her
marriage to Daniel Finch.
There's a vast terrain seperating assuming a marriage, and *declaring*
there
was no other marriage.
Isn't there?
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free
athttp://www.aol.com.
Indeed there is; but who has *declared* there was no other marriage?
I've simply said I see no evidence that would lead to the assumption
of another marriage - especially since Anne had at least one multiple
birth ( twins in May 1699) by Finch and was having children by him as
late as 1706.
-
Gjest
Re: daniel finch and his 30 children
<<In a message dated 7/9/2007 1:15:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
the_verminator@comcast.net writes:
Indeed there is; but who has *declared* there was no other marriage?
I've simply said I see no evidence that would lead to the assumption
of another marriage - especially since Anne had at least one multiple
birth ( twins in May 1699) by Finch and was having children by him as
late as 1706.>>
We simply cannot tell until we see the details from reputable sources.
However, I went back into my history and I see that the person who declared
it to me, did so in a private email. My mistake, for some reason I had
thought that that declaration had gotten into this thread.
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
the_verminator@comcast.net writes:
Indeed there is; but who has *declared* there was no other marriage?
I've simply said I see no evidence that would lead to the assumption
of another marriage - especially since Anne had at least one multiple
birth ( twins in May 1699) by Finch and was having children by him as
late as 1706.>>
We simply cannot tell until we see the details from reputable sources.
However, I went back into my history and I see that the person who declared
it to me, did so in a private email. My mistake, for some reason I had
thought that that declaration had gotten into this thread.
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
Gjest
Re: C.P. Addition: Death and burial of Alice de Lusignan, wi
On 9 Jul., 04:51, "a...@mindspring.com" <a...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Well spotted. That's a a rather odd lapse too, n'est-ce pas? The
answer is, strangely, neither. John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey
died in 1347.
His grandfather and predecessor John de Warenne, 6th Earl of Surrey,
died "on or about the 29th of September 1304", according to his entry
in the ODNB. Dugdale (Baronage, Vol 1, p 80) quotes it as "5 Calends
October 32 Edward I", adding that his memorial inscription at Lewes
concluded with this generous verse:
"Sire Johan Count de Garenne gist ycy
"Dieu de sa alme eit mercy
"Ky pur sa alme prierra
"Troiz mill jours de pardon avera"
Lord John, Earl of Warenne, lies here
May God have mercy on his soul.
Whosoever shall pray for his soul
Shall have three thousand days' indulgence.
Not a bad offer!
I presume this John has been referred to as the 7th Earl because of
his grandmother's two husbands, each of whom bore the title "Earl of
Surrey" jure uxoris. However, as those familiar with the British
peerage system will know, Earls whose title is by courtesy only are
not counted when it comes to assigning numbers to the holders of a
peerage. Thus we have:
1. William de Warenne, 1st Earl of Surrey (d 1088), father of:
2. William, 2nd Earl (d 1138), father of:
3. William, 3rd Earl (d 1148), father of:
4. Isabel, only daughter and sole heiress, de jure Countess of Surrey
(d 1203); married firstly William de Blois, styled Earl of Surrey jure
uxoris (d 1159); married secondly Hamelin of Anjou, styled Earl of
Surrey jure uxoris (d 1202); mother by her second marriage of:
5. William, 5th Earl of Surrey (d 1240), father of:
6. John, 6th Earl of Surrey (d 1304)
According to custom, no number is assigned to Peeresses who hold the
title in their own right, but they are counted for the purpose of
assigning numbers to subsequent Peers. Isabel thus stands in the
place of the 4th holder of the comital title, and neither of her
husbands are counted.
Regards, Michael
On Jul 7, 1:55 pm, royalances...@msn.com wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~
I might add that the identity of Alice de Lusignan, Countess of
Surrey, is likewise attested by her very death record in Lewes Annals,
which states that Countess Alice was buried before the high altar at
Lewes Priory "in the presence of her brother, Aymer, [bishop] elect of
Winchester."
For a brief biography of Countess Alice's notorious brother, Aymer de
Valence, Bishop elect of Winchester (died 1260), see the following
weblink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymer_de_Valence
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Did John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey die in 1304 or 1310? You used
both dates in these posts.
Doug Smith
Well spotted. That's a a rather odd lapse too, n'est-ce pas? The
answer is, strangely, neither. John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey
died in 1347.
His grandfather and predecessor John de Warenne, 6th Earl of Surrey,
died "on or about the 29th of September 1304", according to his entry
in the ODNB. Dugdale (Baronage, Vol 1, p 80) quotes it as "5 Calends
October 32 Edward I", adding that his memorial inscription at Lewes
concluded with this generous verse:
"Sire Johan Count de Garenne gist ycy
"Dieu de sa alme eit mercy
"Ky pur sa alme prierra
"Troiz mill jours de pardon avera"
Lord John, Earl of Warenne, lies here
May God have mercy on his soul.
Whosoever shall pray for his soul
Shall have three thousand days' indulgence.
Not a bad offer!
I presume this John has been referred to as the 7th Earl because of
his grandmother's two husbands, each of whom bore the title "Earl of
Surrey" jure uxoris. However, as those familiar with the British
peerage system will know, Earls whose title is by courtesy only are
not counted when it comes to assigning numbers to the holders of a
peerage. Thus we have:
1. William de Warenne, 1st Earl of Surrey (d 1088), father of:
2. William, 2nd Earl (d 1138), father of:
3. William, 3rd Earl (d 1148), father of:
4. Isabel, only daughter and sole heiress, de jure Countess of Surrey
(d 1203); married firstly William de Blois, styled Earl of Surrey jure
uxoris (d 1159); married secondly Hamelin of Anjou, styled Earl of
Surrey jure uxoris (d 1202); mother by her second marriage of:
5. William, 5th Earl of Surrey (d 1240), father of:
6. John, 6th Earl of Surrey (d 1304)
According to custom, no number is assigned to Peeresses who hold the
title in their own right, but they are counted for the purpose of
assigning numbers to subsequent Peers. Isabel thus stands in the
place of the 4th holder of the comital title, and neither of her
husbands are counted.
Regards, Michael
-
Duvall, Jeffery A
RE: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
Perhaps this speculation was based on the fact that Wallis Warfield was
descended from two 17th century immigrants (Peter Montague and Matthew
Howard) for whom royal ancestry was once claimed. If I'm not mistaken
the whole loopy "Arundell of Wardour" theory about Matthew Howard's
ancestry was cooked up by Harry Wright Newman specifically for Mrs.
Simpson (or at least for Mrs. S's relatives here in the States). The
theory about Peter Montague's descent from the Earls of Salisbury comes
from another (earlier) source. Matthew Howard's ancestry remains a
mystery, while Peter Montague's ancestry has been documented through the
16th century, to a Robert Montague who was born ca. 1505 in Boveney,
Bucks., England.
Jeff Duvall
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Leo van de Pas
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:45 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
See below
----- Original Message -----
From: <the_verminator@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
3rd
Earl of Salisbury had two sons, Thomas his heir and Richard. Thomas only
had
a daughter and Richard d.s.p. ..........Can anyone confirm this? This
would
remove this possibility for Wallis Warfield.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia
.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
descended from two 17th century immigrants (Peter Montague and Matthew
Howard) for whom royal ancestry was once claimed. If I'm not mistaken
the whole loopy "Arundell of Wardour" theory about Matthew Howard's
ancestry was cooked up by Harry Wright Newman specifically for Mrs.
Simpson (or at least for Mrs. S's relatives here in the States). The
theory about Peter Montague's descent from the Earls of Salisbury comes
from another (earlier) source. Matthew Howard's ancestry remains a
mystery, while Peter Montague's ancestry has been documented through the
16th century, to a Robert Montague who was born ca. 1505 in Boveney,
Bucks., England.
Jeff Duvall
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Leo van de Pas
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:45 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
See below
----- Original Message -----
From: <the_verminator@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
On Jul 9, 3:12 am, WJhon...@aol.com wrote:
I have seen hints and scraps but nothing definite on the distant
ancestry
of
Wallis Warfield "The Woman who Cost a Kingdom" as Time magazine says.
Leo only has a few generations on her and Wargs although in the Obama
article lists some of her ancestors doesn't seem to touch on her
royal
lineage (if
any)
But the Time article states that both sides of her family liked to
traced
themselves from William the Conqueror, so there is definitely
something
there to
find.
Anyone know?
Thanks
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free
athttp://www.aol.com.
Her father was supposedly a descendant of Richard Montacute (c1429
England ) who was supposedly a descendant of the third Earl of
Salisbury who was supposedly descended from William the Conqueror.
According to Burke's Extinct Peerage, 1866, Page 372, John de Montacute,
3rd
Earl of Salisbury had two sons, Thomas his heir and Richard. Thomas only
had
a daughter and Richard d.s.p. ..........Can anyone confirm this? This
would
remove this possibility for Wallis Warfield.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia
.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Ken Ozanne
Re: Visitation of Derbyshire 1611
All,
Does anybody know where to find a copy of the Visitation of Derbyshire
1611? A search on Google gave me only that there are 11 pages transcribed in
the NEHGS library. No copy in LOC, none in FHL, none in BL, none on World
Cat.
Just in case anybody has partial access, my immediate concern is with
the Mundy family, having recently acquired the pedigree from The History and
Antiquities of the County of Leicester and wishing to make comparisons.
Best,
Ken
Does anybody know where to find a copy of the Visitation of Derbyshire
1611? A search on Google gave me only that there are 11 pages transcribed in
the NEHGS library. No copy in LOC, none in FHL, none in BL, none on World
Cat.
Just in case anybody has partial access, my immediate concern is with
the Mundy family, having recently acquired the pedigree from The History and
Antiquities of the County of Leicester and wishing to make comparisons.
Best,
Ken
-
12-stringer
Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
"Duvall, Jeffery A" <jduvall@iupui.edu> wrote in
message
news:mailman.4252.1183988198.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
No, this is indeed mistaken. Zella Armstrong's
"Notable Southern Families" (vol 1, 1918) and Luther
Welsh's "Welsh-Hyatt Families" (1926) both mention this
Howard-Arundel business, well prior to Newman. It can
hardly be original with Armstrong, who was a
cut-n-paster of limited writing ability, though she
doesn't cite a source, while Welsh references only
"Southern Families." Armstrong gives it amid a garbled
account of a MD Howard family that emigrated to one of
the Carolinas and which she is undoubtedly parroting
from an earlier writer.
Welsh also notes an early version of the alternate
Howard myth, the one that now calls for a lefthanded
Tudor descent though it didn't at that time -- there's
a place name connected to the myth which I have managed
to slip completely out of memory. The original version
of this evidently got into circulation about 100 yrs
ago, though it's been revised for "Providence: Ye Lost
Towne" and given a new slant.
Most Warfield researchers seem to have accepted the
proposed lineage for Richard (c1646-1704) as laid out
by Richard Foose about 15 years ago, though as far as I
know there is no definitive evidence for the ID. If
it's correct, there is a descent from the Carters of
Kempston, a minor local gentry family of rural
Bedfordshire with some ascendant steps into the late
medieval period.
message
news:mailman.4252.1183988198.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Perhaps this speculation was based on the fact that
Wallis Warfield was
descended from two 17th century immigrants (Peter
Montague and Matthew
Howard) for whom royal ancestry was once claimed. If
I'm not mistaken
the whole loopy "Arundell of Wardour" theory about
Matthew Howard's
ancestry was cooked up by Harry Wright Newman
specifically for Mrs.
Simpson (or at least for Mrs. S's relatives here in
the States).
No, this is indeed mistaken. Zella Armstrong's
"Notable Southern Families" (vol 1, 1918) and Luther
Welsh's "Welsh-Hyatt Families" (1926) both mention this
Howard-Arundel business, well prior to Newman. It can
hardly be original with Armstrong, who was a
cut-n-paster of limited writing ability, though she
doesn't cite a source, while Welsh references only
"Southern Families." Armstrong gives it amid a garbled
account of a MD Howard family that emigrated to one of
the Carolinas and which she is undoubtedly parroting
from an earlier writer.
Welsh also notes an early version of the alternate
Howard myth, the one that now calls for a lefthanded
Tudor descent though it didn't at that time -- there's
a place name connected to the myth which I have managed
to slip completely out of memory. The original version
of this evidently got into circulation about 100 yrs
ago, though it's been revised for "Providence: Ye Lost
Towne" and given a new slant.
Most Warfield researchers seem to have accepted the
proposed lineage for Richard (c1646-1704) as laid out
by Richard Foose about 15 years ago, though as far as I
know there is no definitive evidence for the ID. If
it's correct, there is a descent from the Carters of
Kempston, a minor local gentry family of rural
Bedfordshire with some ascendant steps into the late
medieval period.
-
Gjest
Re: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
<<In a message dated 7/9/2007 9:40:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
12-stringer@d-12-20.net writes:
Zella Armstrong's
"Notable Southern Families" (vol 1, 1918) and Luther
Welsh's "Welsh-Hyatt Families" (1926) both mention this
Howard-Arundel business, well prior to Newman. It can
hardly be original with Armstrong, who was a
cut-n-paster of limited writing ability,>>
Thank you.
I've always looked a bit askance at "Notable Southern Families".
Seemed so Burkesque "we just print what they say we don't verify it..."
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
12-stringer@d-12-20.net writes:
Zella Armstrong's
"Notable Southern Families" (vol 1, 1918) and Luther
Welsh's "Welsh-Hyatt Families" (1926) both mention this
Howard-Arundel business, well prior to Newman. It can
hardly be original with Armstrong, who was a
cut-n-paster of limited writing ability,>>
Thank you.
I've always looked a bit askance at "Notable Southern Families".
Seemed so Burkesque "we just print what they say we don't verify it..."
Will Johnson
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
Hal Bradley
RE: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
Rosie & Michael,
Thanks for the discussion of this line. Could you provide a summary of the
Annesley & Pierrepont lines? If Annora de Pierrepont is the daughter of Sir
Robert de Pierrepont, I cannot get the chronology to work. Is it possible
she was the wife of Sir John de Annesley (d. 1357) rather than his father?
Working from Sir Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393) through his mother Isabel
Annesley I have the following:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington
....
12. Sir Thomas Annesley (d. 1416)
13. Agnes de Clifton
....
24. Sir John Annesley (d. c. 1389)
25. Margaret de Pierrepont
....
48. Sir John Annesley (d. 1357)
49. N.N.
....
96. Sir John Annesley
97. Annora de Pierrepont
....
194. Sir Robert de Pierrepont (b. c. 1275?)
195. Sarah de Heriz
Is this correct? If so, that is six generations of Annesley's back to John
who married Annora de Pierrepont. At twenty years per generation, it would
place that John's birth circa 1273. Secondary sources place Sir Robert de
Pierrepont's birth in the range of 1275 to 1285. The secondary sources are
either wrong or there is something amiss in the Annesley pedigree. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Hal Bradley
Thanks for the discussion of this line. Could you provide a summary of the
Annesley & Pierrepont lines? If Annora de Pierrepont is the daughter of Sir
Robert de Pierrepont, I cannot get the chronology to work. Is it possible
she was the wife of Sir John de Annesley (d. 1357) rather than his father?
Working from Sir Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393) through his mother Isabel
Annesley I have the following:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington
....
12. Sir Thomas Annesley (d. 1416)
13. Agnes de Clifton
....
24. Sir John Annesley (d. c. 1389)
25. Margaret de Pierrepont
....
48. Sir John Annesley (d. 1357)
49. N.N.
....
96. Sir John Annesley
97. Annora de Pierrepont
....
194. Sir Robert de Pierrepont (b. c. 1275?)
195. Sarah de Heriz
Is this correct? If so, that is six generations of Annesley's back to John
who married Annora de Pierrepont. At twenty years per generation, it would
place that John's birth circa 1273. Secondary sources place Sir Robert de
Pierrepont's birth in the range of 1275 to 1285. The secondary sources are
either wrong or there is something amiss in the Annesley pedigree. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Hal Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Rosie Bevan
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:16 PM
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
Thanks for those additional details, Michael. I wouldn't be surprised
if John I de Loudham had a previous marriage either. His son and heir
was born when he was in his mid forties and Alice de Kirketon was
considerably younger than he.
The descent from Maud/Alice de Loudham to the Pierreponts and
Annesleys is as follows. The Pierreponts are ancestral to many
Derbyshire and Notts. families, and the Annesley line decends to the
Viscounts Chaworths and Chaworths of Wiverton, as well as many others.
1. John II de Heriz d.1299
+Maud de Loudham d. aft 1299
2.John III de Loudham d.1329
3.Maud de Heriz
+ Richard de la Ryvere
4. Margaret de la Ryvere, the elder
+ Thomas Beler
4. Margaret de Ryvere, the younger
+ Roger Beler
2.Sarah de Heriz , brought manor at Rolleston in free marriage
+ Sir Robert de Pierrepont of Holme Pierrepont d.1334
3. Sir Henry Pierrepont d.v.p.
+ Margaret da William fitz William, had issue
3. Annora de Pierrepont d.1336
+ John de Annesley of Annesley
4. Sir John Annesley d. 1357, had issue
Annora de Pierrepont (named after her paternal grandmother Annora de
Manvers who brought the manor of Holme to the Pierreponts), carried
Maud de Loudham's dowry of property in Lowdham to the Annesley family
as is evident by a 1324 fine. Annora's stepmother was Cecily, daughter
of Sir John de Annesley, presumably Annora's father-in-law.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jul 7, 1:16 am, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
On 6 Jul., 09:49, Rosie Bevan <rbe...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
To summarise.
1.Herbert
2.Eustace fitz Herbert de Loudham fl. 1213, d.c 1241
3. Walter de Loudham fl c.1225, d.c 1272
3. Walter de Loudham d.c.1303
+ Joan Tregoz
4. John de Loudham b.c.1270-1318
+ Alice de Kirketon
5. John de
Loudham b.c.1314-c.1387
+ Isabel le Breton
6. John
de Loudham d.s.p.1390
+
Margaret de Burgh d.1449, married 2ndly John la Zouche of
Kirtlington, had issue
6.Isabel
de Loudham
+ Thomas Bekering
7. Alice Bekering
+
Sir Thomas Rempston
8. Elizabeth Rempston
+ John Cheyney
8. Isabel Rempston
+ Sir Brian Stapleton
8. Margaret Rempston
+ Richard Bingham
6.
Margaret de Loudham
+ Thomas Foljambe
6. Alice
de Loudham d.s.p.
+ Thomas
de la Ryvere
3.Alice/Maud de Loudham
+ John de Heriz
4. William de Loudham
5.Joan de Loudham
+Sir Geoffrey de Staunton
Wow - many thanks, Rosie.
A couple of slight additions:
(a) William de Loudham, the brother of Sir John (c1270-1314) was
probably the clergyman of that name presented by Sir John to the
church of Bilsthorpe (Register of William Greenfield, Archbishop of
York, 1306-1315, p 48, #1768), and possibly the incumbent
of Knaptoft,
Leics, of that name, mentioned in the Somerset Feet of Fines for 11
Edward II.
(b) Sir John III (d 1390) appears to have married twice, the first
time, at a young age, to a Katherine:
"John de Kirketon, knight, to settle the manor of Tumby on
himself and
Isabel his wife for their lives, remainder to John de
Loudham, knight,
for life, remainder to John, son of the said John de Loudham,
Katherine his wife and the heirs of their bodies, remainder to the
said John de Loudham and his heirs, retaining the manor of Ashby
Puerorum, Lincoln: 36 Edward III [1362-3] (PRO C143/342/16).
MA-R- Hide quoted text -
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-
WJhonson
Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 15:17:52 Pacific Standard Time, hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Sir William Lok (1480-1550), as Sue has kindly noted already, was the
second son of Thomas Lok, and grandson of John Lok, sheriff of London
in 1461; they were both members of the Mercers' company; he married
four times: Alice Spenser (d 1522);>>
I have that her surname was not Spenser, but Spence, a daughter of Thomas Spence of London by his wife a Cavendish of Suffolk unnamed but heir of her father Roger Cavendish by his wife Alice Stratton
Citing Vis Sussex 1530 page 100
Will Johnson
Sir William Lok (1480-1550), as Sue has kindly noted already, was the
second son of Thomas Lok, and grandson of John Lok, sheriff of London
in 1461; they were both members of the Mercers' company; he married
four times: Alice Spenser (d 1522);>>
I have that her surname was not Spenser, but Spence, a daughter of Thomas Spence of London by his wife a Cavendish of Suffolk unnamed but heir of her father Roger Cavendish by his wife Alice Stratton
Citing Vis Sussex 1530 page 100
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
Elizabeth, wife of Nicholas Bullingham,
Bishop of Lincoln & Worcester, and Jane "whose three daughters all
married members of the Common Council [of London]".>>
--------
I'd like to just point out here that we know about the three daughters, not as might be supposed because they were co-heiresses of their parents, but rather because they were co-heiresses of their brother William Meredith of Calstone Wellington, Wiltshire who was an adult by 1572 and who d.s.p. sometime after that. He married Martha Longe.
His three sisters Ellen, Mary and Elizabeth all married mercers.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
Rose Lok (26 Dec 1526 - 21 Nov 1613) "the third of eleven children of
Sir William Lok,>>
That Rose b 1526 was "third" contradicts the idea that Thomas, Elizabeth and Jane were all by his first wife and they all survived to marry.
Will Johnson
Rose Lok (26 Dec 1526 - 21 Nov 1613) "the third of eleven children of
Sir William Lok,>>
That Rose b 1526 was "third" contradicts the idea that Thomas, Elizabeth and Jane were all by his first wife and they all survived to marry.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOK (LOCK) - Alderman of London - 16th C
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 11:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
second wife, Katherine, daughter of Sir Thomas Cook of
Wiltshire; married firstly 28.11.1543 Anthony Hickman (d 1573) by whom
she had at least two children; >>
Changing the above "two" to "three" to wit:
*Dr Henry Hickman m Ann Wallop
**Elizabeth Hickman m Sir Henry Fiennes-Clinton, Knt of Kirkstead
***William Fiennes-Clinton m Elizabeth Kennedy
****James Clinton m Elizabeth Smith
*****Charles Clinton m Elizabeth Denniston and he died 19 Nov 1773 Little Brittain, New York
*Sir William Hickman of Gainsborough m Agnes Draper and m2 Elizabeth Willoughby
**by (2) Willoughby Hickman, 1st Bart of Gainsborough m Bridget Thornhaugh
***William Hickman, 2nd Bart of Gainsborough
*Walter Hickman of Kew m Elizabeth Staines
**Elizabeth Hickman m George Alington of Swinhope "fourth son" on 28 Apr 1617
**Dixie Hickman of Kew m Elizabeth Windsor on 24 Jul 1616
***Thomas Windsor Hickman, 1st Earl of Plymouth
Will Johnson
second wife, Katherine, daughter of Sir Thomas Cook of
Wiltshire; married firstly 28.11.1543 Anthony Hickman (d 1573) by whom
she had at least two children; >>
Changing the above "two" to "three" to wit:
*Dr Henry Hickman m Ann Wallop
**Elizabeth Hickman m Sir Henry Fiennes-Clinton, Knt of Kirkstead
***William Fiennes-Clinton m Elizabeth Kennedy
****James Clinton m Elizabeth Smith
*****Charles Clinton m Elizabeth Denniston and he died 19 Nov 1773 Little Brittain, New York
*Sir William Hickman of Gainsborough m Agnes Draper and m2 Elizabeth Willoughby
**by (2) Willoughby Hickman, 1st Bart of Gainsborough m Bridget Thornhaugh
***William Hickman, 2nd Bart of Gainsborough
*Walter Hickman of Kew m Elizabeth Staines
**Elizabeth Hickman m George Alington of Swinhope "fourth son" on 28 Apr 1617
**Dixie Hickman of Kew m Elizabeth Windsor on 24 Jul 1616
***Thomas Windsor Hickman, 1st Earl of Plymouth
Will Johnson
-
Bob Turcott
RE: Query: The worth of mtDNA for genealogy
WJ,
Here is a company that does both dna from your father & mother.
http://www.ftdna.com/
cheers
Bob T.
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
Here is a company that does both dna from your father & mother.
http://www.ftdna.com/
cheers
Bob T.
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
-
Hal Bradley
RE: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
Will,
Why is problematic? Could you provide details on the family on of Hugh
Annesley and his wife Benedicta?
Thanks,
Hal
-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson [mailto:wjhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:01 PM
To: Hal Bradley; 'Rosie Bevan'; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 15:17:52 Pacific Standard Time,
hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and
Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his
wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
Why is problematic? Could you provide details on the family on of Hugh
Annesley and his wife Benedicta?
Thanks,
Hal
-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson [mailto:wjhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:01 PM
To: Hal Bradley; 'Rosie Bevan'; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 15:17:52 Pacific Standard Time,
hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and
Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his
wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
-
Hal Bradley
RE: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
Will,
Ronny Bodine provided the following in 2001:
"Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucester Archaeological Society,
vol. 14 [1889-90], p. 101-4 in an article entitled, "Royal and
Baronial Descents of the Families of Annesley, Cotton, Booth, Tondale
and Others" shows Sir Hugh Annesley, of Annesley [died 13 Sept 1401,
married to the unnamed daughter of Sir John Babington, Kt., of
Chilwell, co. Derby] as the son of Thomas Annesley, of Annesley and
his wife Agnes, daughter of Robert Clifton, of co. Notts.
George Baker in his The History and Antiquities of the County of
Northampton [2 vols, 1822-41], 1: 503, repeats the above relationship
and adds Isabella, wife of Edmund Willoughby, as a daughter of Sir
Hugh Annesley and his Babington wife. This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146."
If you have information that refutes this relationship, would you please
share it?
Hal Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson [mailto:wjhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:01 PM
To: Hal Bradley; 'Rosie Bevan'; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 15:17:52 Pacific Standard Time,
hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and
Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his
wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
Ronny Bodine provided the following in 2001:
"Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucester Archaeological Society,
vol. 14 [1889-90], p. 101-4 in an article entitled, "Royal and
Baronial Descents of the Families of Annesley, Cotton, Booth, Tondale
and Others" shows Sir Hugh Annesley, of Annesley [died 13 Sept 1401,
married to the unnamed daughter of Sir John Babington, Kt., of
Chilwell, co. Derby] as the son of Thomas Annesley, of Annesley and
his wife Agnes, daughter of Robert Clifton, of co. Notts.
George Baker in his The History and Antiquities of the County of
Northampton [2 vols, 1822-41], 1: 503, repeats the above relationship
and adds Isabella, wife of Edmund Willoughby, as a daughter of Sir
Hugh Annesley and his Babington wife. This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146."
If you have information that refutes this relationship, would you please
share it?
Hal Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: WJhonson [mailto:wjhonson@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:01 PM
To: Hal Bradley; 'Rosie Bevan'; gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/09/07 15:17:52 Pacific Standard Time,
hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
1. Hugh Willoughby (b. c. 1393)
2. Edmund Willoughby
3. Isabel Annesley
4. Sir Edmund Willoughby
5. Alice de Somerville
6. Sir Hugh Annesley
7. Benedicta Babington >>
It is chronologically problematic to make Isabel the daughter of Hugh and
Benedicta.
Rather I would suggest that she is the daughter of John de Annesley by his
wife Isabella de Ireland
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/10/07 10:59:26 Pacific Standard Time, hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146.">>
Would you mind checking this reference again?
What I see on this page is merely Isabel daughter of Hugh Annesley.
No mention of who his wife might be
Thanks
Will Johnson
This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146.">>
Would you mind checking this reference again?
What I see on this page is merely Isabel daughter of Hugh Annesley.
No mention of who his wife might be
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Hon. Alice Camoys wife of Sir Leoanrd Hastings
In addition to the descent provided by DR of Alice (Camoys) Hastings from Hugh le Despencer I am showing as well a descent for her from Henry II, King of England as follows
Alice Camoys daughter of
Thomas 1st Baron Camoys (from 1372 to his death in 1421)
son of
Elizabeth Latimer who married Sir John Camoys of Bekerton (second son, "he was aged 40 at IPM taken 30 Sep 1360")
daughter of
Elizabeth de Botetourt who married William 3rd Lord Latimer (he was born "when his mother was 15")
daughter of unknown male Botetourt who was son of
John 1st Lord Botetourt died 25 Nov 1324 by his wife Maud "filia" Thomas
This Maud was daughter of
Thomas FitzOtho of Mendelsham, Suffolk who d 1274 by his wife Beatrice de Beauchamp who d 1280/1
Beatrice was daughter of
Sir William de Beauchamp, Lord of Bedford d 1260 by his wife Ida Longespee who d 1270
Ida was daughter of William Longespee, 3rd Earl of Salisbury and he was the son of Henry II
Will Johnson
Alice Camoys daughter of
Thomas 1st Baron Camoys (from 1372 to his death in 1421)
son of
Elizabeth Latimer who married Sir John Camoys of Bekerton (second son, "he was aged 40 at IPM taken 30 Sep 1360")
daughter of
Elizabeth de Botetourt who married William 3rd Lord Latimer (he was born "when his mother was 15")
daughter of unknown male Botetourt who was son of
John 1st Lord Botetourt died 25 Nov 1324 by his wife Maud "filia" Thomas
This Maud was daughter of
Thomas FitzOtho of Mendelsham, Suffolk who d 1274 by his wife Beatrice de Beauchamp who d 1280/1
Beatrice was daughter of
Sir William de Beauchamp, Lord of Bedford d 1260 by his wife Ida Longespee who d 1270
Ida was daughter of William Longespee, 3rd Earl of Salisbury and he was the son of Henry II
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
What I find interesting about Wallis is that I've read here and there about how she lived at one time in poverty, etc. And the more I look, the more wealthy and well-placed her family seems to actually be.
At any rate Leo I've found one more generation back than what you have, at least documented by "The Warfields of Maryland". Still looking.
See here
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... cy_MacTier
Will Johnson
At any rate Leo I've found one more generation back than what you have, at least documented by "The Warfields of Maryland". Still looking.
See here
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... cy_MacTier
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
<<In a message dated 07/10/07 10:59:26 Pacific Standard Time, hw.bradley@verizon.net writes:
George Baker in his The History and Antiquities of the County of
Northampton [2 vols, 1822-41], 1: 503, repeats the above relationship
and adds Isabella, wife of Edmund Willoughby, as a daughter of Sir
Hugh Annesley and his Babington wife. This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146.">>
Here is the full quote.
You can see where he lists two marriages and then follows that with "This marriage also appears...." which would then be ambiguous. I'm not disputing the marriage of Annesley to Willoughby, so then your follow up question "If you have any information which disputes this marriage" is equally ambiguous.
Ronnie's post could have been made more clear had Ronnie said "The marriage of Willoughby to Isabella is repeated in Vis Notts."
The lack of a full quote from the earliest known mention of the marriage doesn't make me feel very good about accepting it at face value seeing this sort of ambiguity creeping in to confuse the issue.
We have a few problems to resolve seperately.
1) What is the underlying source for stating that that particular Hugh Annesley who died in 1401 had a Babington wife?
2) What is the underlying source for her first name?
3) What is the underlying source for her parents?
These three questions shouldn't be combined in one fell swoop because I fear that the answers will throw a few lines out.
Will
George Baker in his The History and Antiquities of the County of
Northampton [2 vols, 1822-41], 1: 503, repeats the above relationship
and adds Isabella, wife of Edmund Willoughby, as a daughter of Sir
Hugh Annesley and his Babington wife. This marriage also appears in
the Visitation of Nottinghamshire, 1565 and 1614 (Harleian Society
Pubs, vol. 4, 1871), p. 146.">>
Here is the full quote.
You can see where he lists two marriages and then follows that with "This marriage also appears...." which would then be ambiguous. I'm not disputing the marriage of Annesley to Willoughby, so then your follow up question "If you have any information which disputes this marriage" is equally ambiguous.
Ronnie's post could have been made more clear had Ronnie said "The marriage of Willoughby to Isabella is repeated in Vis Notts."
The lack of a full quote from the earliest known mention of the marriage doesn't make me feel very good about accepting it at face value seeing this sort of ambiguity creeping in to confuse the issue.
We have a few problems to resolve seperately.
1) What is the underlying source for stating that that particular Hugh Annesley who died in 1401 had a Babington wife?
2) What is the underlying source for her first name?
3) What is the underlying source for her parents?
These three questions shouldn't be combined in one fell swoop because I fear that the answers will throw a few lines out.
Will
-
WJhonson
Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
Let me be more clear.
What I'm disputing is that Isabella wife of Edmund Willoughby is the same person as Isabella daughter of Hugh Annesley.
I don't disagree that someone has made this connection, only whether it's a correct connection. We need to see what evidence they used.
What I'm disputing is that Isabella wife of Edmund Willoughby is the same person as Isabella daughter of Hugh Annesley.
I don't disagree that someone has made this connection, only whether it's a correct connection. We need to see what evidence they used.
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
That's interesting.
Just doing a sweep for "Humphrey Jones in Virginia" I get this
Peggy, daughter, born 25 Dec 1743 bap 22 Jan 1743[/4]
Parents: Humphrey Jones and Catherine Jones
Christ Church Parish
Will Johnson
Just doing a sweep for "Humphrey Jones in Virginia" I get this
Peggy, daughter, born 25 Dec 1743 bap 22 Jan 1743[/4]
Parents: Humphrey Jones and Catherine Jones
Christ Church Parish
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
I seem to recall from an earlier thread that that Humphrey Jones who married Mary Dale died "bef 3 Feb 1684/5"
Here is something a little more exact
Christ Church Parish Deaths
Mr Humphrey Jones 16 Oct 1684
buried 20 Oct 1684
Will Johnson
Here is something a little more exact
Christ Church Parish Deaths
Mr Humphrey Jones 16 Oct 1684
buried 20 Oct 1684
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: The early lineage of the Loudhams of Notts
On Jul 10, 3:38 pm, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
I have the will of Isabella Willoughby in hand. I can post the will
but its in Latin.
Mike
Let me be more clear.
What I'm disputing is that Isabella wife of Edmund Willoughby is the same person as Isabella daughter of Hugh Annesley.
I don't disagree that someone has made this connection, only whether it's a correct connection. We need to see what evidence they used.
I have the will of Isabella Willoughby in hand. I can post the will
but its in Latin.
Mike
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Thomas Carter married Katherine Dale 4 May 1670
The Peter Carter to which this post refers is their son born 23 May 1688
Do you have something else ?
Will Johnson
The Peter Carter to which this post refers is their son born 23 May 1688
Do you have something else ?
Will Johnson
-
Ford Mommaerts-Browne
Re: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
Many years ago, at the Nebraska State Historical Society, I came across a piece on her royal origins. IIRC, it was in _Notes & Queries_.
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
: What I find interesting about Wallis is that I've read here and there about how she lived at one time in poverty, etc. And the more I look, the more wealthy and well-placed her family seems to actually be.
:
: At any rate Leo I've found one more generation back than what you have, at least documented by "The Warfields of Maryland". Still looking.
:
: See here
: http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... cy_MacTier
:
: Will Johnson
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Wallis Warfield and her royal ancestors
: What I find interesting about Wallis is that I've read here and there about how she lived at one time in poverty, etc. And the more I look, the more wealthy and well-placed her family seems to actually be.
:
: At any rate Leo I've found one more generation back than what you have, at least documented by "The Warfields of Maryland". Still looking.
:
: See here
: http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... cy_MacTier
:
: Will Johnson
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
WJhonson
Re: Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick, Knt. of Fenwic
That's interesting.
Doing a search
http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=%2 ... N&start=10
shows that the three co-heirs of Sir Henry Fenwick were Mary the wife of John Huddleston of Milom; Margaret the wife of John Denton and Elizabeth the wife of Sir Christopher Moresby
Doing a search
http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=%2 ... N&start=10
shows that the three co-heirs of Sir Henry Fenwick were Mary the wife of John Huddleston of Milom; Margaret the wife of John Denton and Elizabeth the wife of Sir Christopher Moresby
-
James L. Danley
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Mr. Redfield,
My sources are as follows.
Capt. Thomas Carter's Prayer Book contains the following: "Peter Carter was
mard ye 23 Sept 1712 to Kathe Rogers dau to --- Wm Rogers."
Then John Bennett Boddie, in his book "Historical Southern Families," Vol.
XX, pgs. 20 & 21, writes:
"Peter Carter married three times. His first wife was his first cousin,
Catherine Rogers, daugher of Elizabeth Dale Rogers, to whom he was married
Sept. 23, 1712. His last wife was named Margaret. Nothing is known of the
second wife, and it is merely legend that he married another time."
Jim Danley
My sources are as follows.
Capt. Thomas Carter's Prayer Book contains the following: "Peter Carter was
mard ye 23 Sept 1712 to Kathe Rogers dau to --- Wm Rogers."
Then John Bennett Boddie, in his book "Historical Southern Families," Vol.
XX, pgs. 20 & 21, writes:
"Peter Carter married three times. His first wife was his first cousin,
Catherine Rogers, daugher of Elizabeth Dale Rogers, to whom he was married
Sept. 23, 1712. His last wife was named Margaret. Nothing is known of the
second wife, and it is merely legend that he married another time."
Jim Danley
-
Tim Cartmell
Re: Margaret Percy, wife of Sir Alan Fenwick, Knt. of Fenwic
See the following web-link to Archaeologia Aeliana, Vol. 6 that John Watson put me onto. Go to pages 82 & 83. De Banco Rolls, 11 Henry VII (1496) m. 296. Shows Alan Heton, Knt. pedigree and the co-heiress, daughters of Sir Henry Fenwick.
http://www.openlibrary.org/details/arch ... 06sociuoft
The six daughters of Sir Henry Fenwick of Northumberland were:
1). Margaret who married John Denton (d: 1493) of the Cardew Dentons, lords of Ainstable in Cumberland. This John was deprived of Ainstable by Thomas, Lord Dacre; he later acquired Lowlick Tower, nr. Fenwick in Northumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 87, 109.
2). Elizabeth, 2nd daughter, married Sir Christopher Moresby (d: 1499) of Distington and Moresby in Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 232.
3). Mary, 3rd daughter, married Sir John Hudleston (d: 1494)of Millom in Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 170.
In the Millom Church stands their altar tomb which I have personally viewed when visiting in Cumbria. On the tomb there is a plaque which reads, " The Altar Tomb is that of John Hudleston (ob. 1494) and his wife Mary (3rd daughter and co-heiress of Henry Fenwick (ob. abt 1459) of Northumberland) and it carries at it's head the arms of Hudleston and Fenwick, while it's sides carry the arms of Leigh of Isell, Curwen, Pennington, and other families with whom the sons and daughters of Sir John and Mary inter-married, besides some coats of earlier inter-marriages of the Hudleston family."
4). Eleanor, married Sir Thomas Lamplugh of Lamplugh in Cumberland (was the High Sheriff of Cumberland 1464). Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 194.
5). Joan, married John Skelton (b. c. 1438) of Armathwaite Castle in Hesket, Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 309.
6). Anne, married John Radcliffe (living in 1509) of the Derwentwater Radcliffes, lords of Derwentwater (was the High Sheriff of Cumberland in 1507). Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 271.
These Fenwick daughters would have been good marriage prospects, being the great granddaughters of Sir Henry Percy, earl of Northumberland, and his wife Margaret Neville, both who carried the royal blood.
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
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http://www.openlibrary.org/details/arch ... 06sociuoft
The six daughters of Sir Henry Fenwick of Northumberland were:
1). Margaret who married John Denton (d: 1493) of the Cardew Dentons, lords of Ainstable in Cumberland. This John was deprived of Ainstable by Thomas, Lord Dacre; he later acquired Lowlick Tower, nr. Fenwick in Northumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 87, 109.
2). Elizabeth, 2nd daughter, married Sir Christopher Moresby (d: 1499) of Distington and Moresby in Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 232.
3). Mary, 3rd daughter, married Sir John Hudleston (d: 1494)of Millom in Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 170.
In the Millom Church stands their altar tomb which I have personally viewed when visiting in Cumbria. On the tomb there is a plaque which reads, " The Altar Tomb is that of John Hudleston (ob. 1494) and his wife Mary (3rd daughter and co-heiress of Henry Fenwick (ob. abt 1459) of Northumberland) and it carries at it's head the arms of Hudleston and Fenwick, while it's sides carry the arms of Leigh of Isell, Curwen, Pennington, and other families with whom the sons and daughters of Sir John and Mary inter-married, besides some coats of earlier inter-marriages of the Hudleston family."
4). Eleanor, married Sir Thomas Lamplugh of Lamplugh in Cumberland (was the High Sheriff of Cumberland 1464). Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 194.
5). Joan, married John Skelton (b. c. 1438) of Armathwaite Castle in Hesket, Cumberland. Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 309.
6). Anne, married John Radcliffe (living in 1509) of the Derwentwater Radcliffes, lords of Derwentwater (was the High Sheriff of Cumberland in 1507). Source: CWAAS, Cumberland Families and Heraldry, 1978, pgs. 109, 271.
These Fenwick daughters would have been good marriage prospects, being the great granddaughters of Sir Henry Percy, earl of Northumberland, and his wife Margaret Neville, both who carried the royal blood.
Timothy J. Cartmell
---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail
---------------------------------
Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Everyone:
I have researched this family for about 40 years or more, mostly in the
Northumberland and Lancaster County courthouses and in the Northumberland
County Historical Society offices. In addition, there is a book that was written
by the late, Dr. James Motley Booker, who was one of the founders of the
Northumberland Historical Society, on his ancestry. As he was a descendant of the
Rogers family, he did a great deal of research on this family and has the
children of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale as follows, according to their
births:
William, married twice, died in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
John, died in 1752 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Hannah, married thrice and died in Lancaster County, VA, around 1740, leaving
issue.
Eleanor, married twice, died in 1718 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Edward, born around 1705 in Lancaster County, died in 1755 in Northumberland
County (My ancestor and also ancestor of Dr. Booker).
George, moved to Prince William County.
Joseph, moved to Culpeper County and left issue.
Richard Rogers was the brother of William Rogers, husband of Elizabeth
Dale. This Richard Rogers was married to Jane Presley and died in 1697 and left
issue. I have found no record of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale having a
child named Richard, so of you have information on this, I would appreciate
seeing it.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
I have researched this family for about 40 years or more, mostly in the
Northumberland and Lancaster County courthouses and in the Northumberland
County Historical Society offices. In addition, there is a book that was written
by the late, Dr. James Motley Booker, who was one of the founders of the
Northumberland Historical Society, on his ancestry. As he was a descendant of the
Rogers family, he did a great deal of research on this family and has the
children of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale as follows, according to their
births:
William, married twice, died in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
John, died in 1752 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Hannah, married thrice and died in Lancaster County, VA, around 1740, leaving
issue.
Eleanor, married twice, died in 1718 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Edward, born around 1705 in Lancaster County, died in 1755 in Northumberland
County (My ancestor and also ancestor of Dr. Booker).
George, moved to Prince William County.
Joseph, moved to Culpeper County and left issue.
Richard Rogers was the brother of William Rogers, husband of Elizabeth
Dale. This Richard Rogers was married to Jane Presley and died in 1697 and left
issue. I have found no record of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale having a
child named Richard, so of you have information on this, I would appreciate
seeing it.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-
Gjest
Re: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
May I ask who were the parents of the Jane Presley you have listed below?
Pat
Pat
From: Joemaryjoa@aol.com
Date: 2007/07/11 Wed AM 10:13:25 EDT
To: redfieldresearcher@yahoo.com, GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Everyone:
I have researched this family for about 40 years or more, mostly in the
Northumberland and Lancaster County courthouses and in the Northumberland
County Historical Society offices. In addition, there is a book that was written
by the late, Dr. James Motley Booker, who was one of the founders of the
Northumberland Historical Society, on his ancestry. As he was a descendant of the
Rogers family, he did a great deal of research on this family and has the
children of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale as follows, according to their
births:
William, married twice, died in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
John, died in 1752 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Hannah, married thrice and died in Lancaster County, VA, around 1740, leaving
issue.
Eleanor, married twice, died in 1718 in Lancaster County, VA, leaving issue.
Edward, born around 1705 in Lancaster County, died in 1755 in Northumberland
County (My ancestor and also ancestor of Dr. Booker).
George, moved to Prince William County.
Joseph, moved to Culpeper County and left issue.
Richard Rogers was the brother of William Rogers, husband of Elizabeth
Dale. This Richard Rogers was married to Jane Presley and died in 1697 and left
issue. I have found no record of William Rogers and Elizabeth Dale having a
child named Richard, so of you have information on this, I would appreciate
seeing it.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
WJhonson
Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
Excellent post Will.
As a followup I would like to point out the near certitude that "Sir Norton Knatchbull" who as we've just seen had a marriage license to marry Mrs Mary Westroe a widow granted 26 Jan 1626/7 and there stated that he was 55 is sure to be the same person as here, which represents a correction and extension.
Will Johnson
-------------------
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... recoff=1+2
Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
about Norton Knatchbull
Name:Norton Knatchbull
College:ST JOHN'S
Entered:Michs. 1586
Died:1636
More Information:Matric. Fell.-Com. from ST JOHN'S, Michs. 1586. Doubtless s. of Richard, of Mersham, Kent. Knighted, Apr. 18, 1604. Sheriff of Kent, 1608. M.P. for Hythe 1609. Of Mersham Hatch, Kent. Married Bridget, dau. of John Astley. Founder of the Free Grammar School at Ashford. Died 1636. Buried at Mersham. M.I. Uncle of the next, and brother of Thomas (1586). (Vis. of Kent, 1619; Hasted, III. 286.)
As a followup I would like to point out the near certitude that "Sir Norton Knatchbull" who as we've just seen had a marriage license to marry Mrs Mary Westroe a widow granted 26 Jan 1626/7 and there stated that he was 55 is sure to be the same person as here, which represents a correction and extension.
Will Johnson
-------------------
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... recoff=1+2
Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
about Norton Knatchbull
Name:Norton Knatchbull
College:ST JOHN'S
Entered:Michs. 1586
Died:1636
More Information:Matric. Fell.-Com. from ST JOHN'S, Michs. 1586. Doubtless s. of Richard, of Mersham, Kent. Knighted, Apr. 18, 1604. Sheriff of Kent, 1608. M.P. for Hythe 1609. Of Mersham Hatch, Kent. Married Bridget, dau. of John Astley. Founder of the Free Grammar School at Ashford. Died 1636. Buried at Mersham. M.I. Uncle of the next, and brother of Thomas (1586). (Vis. of Kent, 1619; Hasted, III. 286.)
-
WJhonson
Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
Fascinating Will.
May I follow that up by giving Leo that source his database is missing?
The statement that Mary Aldersley, daughter of John Aldersley by his wife Anne Lowe; was firstly the wife of Thomas Westrow Alderman of London and secondly the wife of Sir Norton Knatchbull Kt of Kent comes from
http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx= ... rc=&pid=12
Visitation of London 1633 "Aldersley" (page
Will Johnson
May I follow that up by giving Leo that source his database is missing?
The statement that Mary Aldersley, daughter of John Aldersley by his wife Anne Lowe; was firstly the wife of Thomas Westrow Alderman of London and secondly the wife of Sir Norton Knatchbull Kt of Kent comes from
http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx= ... rc=&pid=12
Visitation of London 1633 "Aldersley" (page
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
That Mary Aldersley outlived her second husband Sir Norton Knatchbull.
I present
Canterbury Cathedral Archives: Diocese of Canterbury [DCb/J/J/56 - DCb/J/J/72]
Diocese of Canterbury
Catalogue Ref. DCb
Creator(s): Diocese of Canterbury
Judicial (Church Courts)
Church Courts: Papers in Ecclesiastical Suits - ref. DCb/J/J
1636
FILE - Ecclesiastical cause papers - ref. DCb/J/J/60/73 - date: 2 Mar 1636
[from Scope and Content] Plaintiff: Sir Norton KNATCHBULL arm neph exor; Defendant: Lady Mary K rel; Thos & Alice K childn of Thos K bro decd; Norton, Mgt, Thos, Geo, John, Sam, Cath, Wm & Ellen CURTEIS childn of Bridget K als C Wife of Geo C dau of Thos K; Ellenor TOKE als wife of Geo CHUTE & Bridget T daus of Mgt K als T wife of Nich T dau of (above) 2ce mentioned Thos K decd; and others; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Sir Norton KNATCHBULL Mersham
Will Johnson
I present
Canterbury Cathedral Archives: Diocese of Canterbury [DCb/J/J/56 - DCb/J/J/72]
Diocese of Canterbury
Catalogue Ref. DCb
Creator(s): Diocese of Canterbury
Judicial (Church Courts)
Church Courts: Papers in Ecclesiastical Suits - ref. DCb/J/J
1636
FILE - Ecclesiastical cause papers - ref. DCb/J/J/60/73 - date: 2 Mar 1636
[from Scope and Content] Plaintiff: Sir Norton KNATCHBULL arm neph exor; Defendant: Lady Mary K rel; Thos & Alice K childn of Thos K bro decd; Norton, Mgt, Thos, Geo, John, Sam, Cath, Wm & Ellen CURTEIS childn of Bridget K als C Wife of Geo C dau of Thos K; Ellenor TOKE als wife of Geo CHUTE & Bridget T daus of Mgt K als T wife of Nich T dau of (above) 2ce mentioned Thos K decd; and others; Documents: Alleg & sent; Case: Test Sir Norton KNATCHBULL Mersham
Will Johnson
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
See below
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
Burke's Peerage 1999 page 348, tells Sir Norton Knatchbull, of Mersham
Hatch, son of Richard Knatchbull and his second wife Susan Green.
Sir Norton marrried (1) Anne, daughter of Paul Wentworth (2) Bridget Astley
(died 4 November 1625) daughter of John Astley (3) Mary, daughter of John
Aldersea, and widow ot Thomas Westrow. Sir Norton Knatchbull dsp 1636
This gives a bit more.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: The other Norton Knatchbull
Excellent post Will.
As a followup I would like to point out the near certitude that "Sir
Norton Knatchbull" who as we've just seen had a marriage license to marry
Mrs Mary Westroe a widow granted 26 Jan 1626/7 and there stated that he
was 55 is sure to be the same person as here, which represents a
correction and extension.
Will Johnson
-------------------
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... recoff=1+2
Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
about Norton Knatchbull
Name:Norton Knatchbull
College:ST JOHN'S
Entered:Michs. 1586
Died:1636
More Information:Matric. Fell.-Com. from ST JOHN'S, Michs. 1586. Doubtless
s. of Richard, of Mersham, Kent. Knighted, Apr. 18, 1604. Sheriff of Kent,
1608. M.P. for Hythe 1609. Of Mersham Hatch, Kent. Married Bridget, dau.
of John Astley. Founder of the Free Grammar School at Ashford. Died 1636.
Buried at Mersham. M.I. Uncle of the next, and brother of Thomas (1586).
(Vis. of Kent, 1619; Hasted, III. 286.)
Burke's Peerage 1999 page 348, tells Sir Norton Knatchbull, of Mersham
Hatch, son of Richard Knatchbull and his second wife Susan Green.
Sir Norton marrried (1) Anne, daughter of Paul Wentworth (2) Bridget Astley
(died 4 November 1625) daughter of John Astley (3) Mary, daughter of John
Aldersea, and widow ot Thomas Westrow. Sir Norton Knatchbull dsp 1636
This gives a bit more.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
WJhonson
(no subject)
http://books.google.com/books?id=lewIAA ... f+beaulieu
"The Gentleman's Magazine", Jan 1863. Page 71
Where in discussing "Beaulieu" they state :
"Monumenta. On a gravestone at the upp end of the Queir: -- Edward Kemp, 6th son of William Kempe, Knt, who left Elizabeth his wife, with Thomas, Edward, Francis and Robert their sons, he died 8 Mar, 1605"
I hope I am not remiss in identifying this Edward as the same person as that Edward who is mentioned in
"A General History of the Kemp and Kempe Families of Great Britain and Her Colonies", Fred Hitchin-Kemp, Daniel Wm Kemp, John Tebor Kemp.
Leadenhall Press, London. Undated.
as being "Of New Forest, Hants" and the son of William Kempe of Ollantigh by his wife Eleanor Browne.
And then merging together that "Thomas Kempe, Gent of Beaulieu, Hampshire" with the above Thomas son of Edward and by this route giving a Royal descent to Frances Kempe the mother of Edward Bromfield, the grandson of Lucy Quinby (d 1618)
Will Johnson
"The Gentleman's Magazine", Jan 1863. Page 71
Where in discussing "Beaulieu" they state :
"Monumenta. On a gravestone at the upp end of the Queir: -- Edward Kemp, 6th son of William Kempe, Knt, who left Elizabeth his wife, with Thomas, Edward, Francis and Robert their sons, he died 8 Mar, 1605"
I hope I am not remiss in identifying this Edward as the same person as that Edward who is mentioned in
"A General History of the Kemp and Kempe Families of Great Britain and Her Colonies", Fred Hitchin-Kemp, Daniel Wm Kemp, John Tebor Kemp.
Leadenhall Press, London. Undated.
as being "Of New Forest, Hants" and the son of William Kempe of Ollantigh by his wife Eleanor Browne.
And then merging together that "Thomas Kempe, Gent of Beaulieu, Hampshire" with the above Thomas son of Edward and by this route giving a Royal descent to Frances Kempe the mother of Edward Bromfield, the grandson of Lucy Quinby (d 1618)
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
You state that William Rogers, the son of William Rogers by Katherine Dale, married twice and had issue.
Do you have a list *of* his issue with their dates?
It is, just barely, but still, possible that that "Kathe" Rogers who married Peter Carter in 1712 was not daughter, but rather *grand* daughter of William Rogers and Katherine Dale.
Thanks
Will Johnson
Do you have a list *of* his issue with their dates?
It is, just barely, but still, possible that that "Kathe" Rogers who married Peter Carter in 1712 was not daughter, but rather *grand* daughter of William Rogers and Katherine Dale.
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
David Railton
RE: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
Thanks for your reply. Some sources state that he was buried at the Mercer's
Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the correct location.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maree Gordon
Sent: 11 July 2007 21:04
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
Sir William LOCK
died 24 August 1550 and was buried in the Mercers' Chapel. St Thomas Acre,
Along with his parents and his 1st and 4th wives
-------------------------------
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Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the correct location.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maree Gordon
Sent: 11 July 2007 21:04
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
Sir William LOCK
died 24 August 1550 and was buried in the Mercers' Chapel. St Thomas Acre,
Along with his parents and his 1st and 4th wives
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Will:
I am sorry that I don't have the information on the descendants of
William Rogers, son of William and Elizabeth Dale Rogers. Since this William was
not my ancestor, I didn't research his descendants, nor have I had contact with
anyone who claims descent from him. I checked Dr. Booker's book and he has
no information on William's descendants. I think that there is a very good
possibility that the father of Catherine, was William, son of William and
Elizabeth. They were of the same social class and that was very, very important in
Virginia in this time period. Sorry, that I cannot provide proof to my theory.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
I am sorry that I don't have the information on the descendants of
William Rogers, son of William and Elizabeth Dale Rogers. Since this William was
not my ancestor, I didn't research his descendants, nor have I had contact with
anyone who claims descent from him. I checked Dr. Booker's book and he has
no information on William's descendants. I think that there is a very good
possibility that the father of Catherine, was William, son of William and
Elizabeth. They were of the same social class and that was very, very important in
Virginia in this time period. Sorry, that I cannot provide proof to my theory.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
-
James L. Danley
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
-
WJhonson
Re: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
<<In a message dated 07/12/07 00:39:22 Pacific Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes:
Some sources state that he was buried at the Mercer's
Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the correct location. >>
David please specify *which* sources says Mercer's Chapel and which (incorrect) ones says the parish church at Merton.
Thanks
Will Johnson
Some sources state that he was buried at the Mercer's
Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the correct location. >>
David please specify *which* sources says Mercer's Chapel and which (incorrect) ones says the parish church at Merton.
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
James L. Danley
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Sorry for not including the dates. Eleanor (Rogers) Conway's will was dated
8 May 1718 and proven 9 Jul 1718. Lancaster Co., VA, W.B. 10, pg. 265.
Eleanor Rogers' first husband was Thomas White. He died in 1711. Ida J.
Lee's will abstract has:
"WHITE, THOMAS. 9 May 1711. Rec. 2 Nov. 1711.
Elinor White, his then wife, appointed Extrx. W.B. 10, p. 3."
Lazarus Conway [Source: Mayor Jay Berry Price] was Eleanor (Dale) White's
2nd husband. I don't have a specific date of their marriage. But since she
carried the name "Elinor White" on 2 Nov 1711, and she died in 1718,
survived by 4 CONWAY children (Josias, Winifred, Elizabeth and Lazarus
Conway), she must have remarried in 1712-1713.
Jim Danley
Sorry for not including the dates. Eleanor (Rogers) Conway's will was dated
8 May 1718 and proven 9 Jul 1718. Lancaster Co., VA, W.B. 10, pg. 265.
Eleanor Rogers' first husband was Thomas White. He died in 1711. Ida J.
Lee's will abstract has:
"WHITE, THOMAS. 9 May 1711. Rec. 2 Nov. 1711.
Elinor White, his then wife, appointed Extrx. W.B. 10, p. 3."
Lazarus Conway [Source: Mayor Jay Berry Price] was Eleanor (Dale) White's
2nd husband. I don't have a specific date of their marriage. But since she
carried the name "Elinor White" on 2 Nov 1711, and she died in 1718,
survived by 4 CONWAY children (Josias, Winifred, Elizabeth and Lazarus
Conway), she must have remarried in 1712-1713.
Jim Danley
-
Jack Baschon
RE: Colonna d'Istria
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
charlotte smith
Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL Digest, Vol 2, Issue 709
--- gen-medieval-request@rootsweb.com wrote:
charlotte c smith
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550 (David
Railton)
2. Re: Colonna d'Istria (jluc soler)
3. Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
(Joemaryjoa@aol.com)
4. Fw: Colonna d'Istria (Ford Mommaerts-Browne)
5. Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39 (Chancery
Proc., Bridges'
Division, 1613-1714, A-C) (John Brandon)
6. Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C) (John
Brandon)
7. Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
(James L. Danley)
8. Re: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550 (WJhonson)
9. Another later de Lara (Christopher Ingham)
10. Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C) (John
Brandon)
11. Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C)
(david11000carca@yahoo.fr)
12. Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C) (John
Brandon)
13. Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
(James L. Danley)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:38:32 +0100
From: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com
Subject: RE: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
To: <tappets@clear.net.nz>,
gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Thanks for your reply. Some sources state that he
was buried at the Mercer's
Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the
parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the
correct location.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf
Of Maree Gordon
Sent: 11 July 2007 21:04
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
Sir William LOCK
died 24 August 1550 and was buried in the Mercers'
Chapel. St Thomas Acre,
Along with his parents and his 1st and 4th wives
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email
to
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'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:54:16 +0200
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my
town : Marseilles, having
prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators
etc...
JL
"Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a
écrit dans le message de
news:
mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:55:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joemaryjoa@aol.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
To: WJhonson@aol.com, redfieldresearcher@yahoo.com,
GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Hi Will:
I am sorry that I don't have the information on
the descendants of
William Rogers, son of William and Elizabeth Dale
Rogers. Since this William was
not my ancestor, I didn't research his descendants,
nor have I had contact with
anyone who claims descent from him. I checked Dr.
Booker's book and he has
no information on William's descendants. I think
that there is a very good
possibility that the father of Catherine, was
William, son of William and
Elizabeth. They were of the same social class and
that was very, very important in
Virginia in this time period. Sorry, that I cannot
provide proof to my theory.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:13:50 -0500
From: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne"
FordMommaerts@cox.net
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
To: "Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com"
gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was
gr.gr.father of Letizia Ramolino. He was gov. of
Istria, and this seemed to be where the 'd'Istria'
might have been added to the name 'Colonna'.
Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my
town : Marseilles, having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators
etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a
écrit dans le message de
: news:
mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
:
:
:
:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email
to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word
'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
the body of the message
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:10:43 -0700
From: John Brandon <starbuck95@hotmail.com
Subject: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39 (Chancery
Proc., Bridges' Division,
1613-1714, A-C)
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
I don't really see why there was a need to change
the subject of this
thread to "(no subject)" ... but that is Whil
Jhonson for you,
jumping impetuously in, always acting oddly dumb
and childish.
Yes, Whil, this Kempe line is already in GBR,
_RD600_. So much for
your discovery.
There is also another line of royal descent, shared
with Elizabeth (?
Bullock) Clements of Mass, part of which goes ...
10. Margaret Norris/Norreys = Gilbert Bullock
11. Anne Bullock = Oliver Oglander
12. George Oglander = Alice Hamond
13. Sir William Oglander = Ann Dillington
14. Mary Oglander = Thomas Kempe
15. Frances Kempe = Henry Bromfield
16. Edward Bromfield of Mass.
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:33:11 -0700
From: John Brandon <starbuck95@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C)
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
For more information on Daniel Gotherson than is
provided by Scull,
see two very interesting Interregnum sources:
--_Calendar of the Proceedings of the Committee for
Advance of Money,
1642-1656_.
--_Calendar of the Proceedings of the Committee for
Compounding, &c.,
1643-1660_.
There is also a bit more in the _State Papers,
Domestic Series_.
Gotherson fell out of favor and was removed from his
official duties
at some point during the Interregnum under
accusations of showing
favoritism to wealthy Royalists.
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:46:17 -0700
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price,
Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in
Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in
1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George
Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County,
Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish.
29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus:
Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno.
Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers,
Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell.
17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos,
Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham
Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on
page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law
Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son
Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said
Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers &
Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth
their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William
Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret
(maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter
of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife,
Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife,
Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly
Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are:
Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE.
He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale)
and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of
Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:50:03 -0700
From: WJhonson <wjhonson@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sir William LOCK - Dd Aug 1550
To: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com>,
tappets@clear.net.nz,
gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
In a message dated 07/12/07 00:39:22 Pacific
Standard Time, railton.david@btinternet.com writes:
Some sources state that he was buried at the
Mercer's
Chapel at St Thomas Acres, London and others at the
parish church at Merton.
I am looking for some definite evidence as to the
correct location.
David please specify *which* sources says Mercer's
Chapel and which (incorrect) ones says the parish
church at Merton.
Thanks
Will Johnson
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:01:07 -0700
From: Christopher Ingham
christopheringham@comcast.net
Subject: Another later de Lara
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Are our iberoaficionados on hiatus (Francisco
Antonio Doria, Maria
Emma Escobar, taf)? A recent query of mine
concerning the identity of
Leonor de Lara remains unanswered. She married a
Juan Arias de
Quadros and was the mother of Elvira Arias, who
married Gonzalo
Rodriguez de Cornado (d. 1341), senor de Azuaga,
alcalde mayor of
Cordoba, and ayo of infante Pedro of Castile. The
sources I have
(citing J.S. Crespo, "Blasones y Linajes de
Galicia," and Federico
Mata Herera of the Academia Costarricense in a
posting to the Genforum
Coronado family forum website) say Leonor was the
granddaughter of
Juan Nunez de Lara (d. 1294). This claim seems a
bit vague to me.
Can her parentage be more precisely ascertained?
In a similar vein, is it now the consensus that the
father of Mayor,
the second wife of Pedro Froilaz de Traba, was
Rodrigo Munoz rather
than Armengol V de Urgel?
Thanks to anyone who can help.
Christopher Ingham
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:25:29 -0700
From: John Brandon <starbuck95@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C)
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
It seems Dorothea's daughter Deborah Gotherson was
still alive in
London as late as 1687 or '88 ...
http://books.google.com/books?id=1nAIAA ... #PPA141,M1
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:46:17 -0700
From: david11000carca@yahoo.fr
Subject: Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C)
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
On Jul 12, 4:10 pm, Jhon Brandon
starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
always acting oddly dumb and childish.
A classic example of the pot calling the kettle
black
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:14:14 -0700
From: John Brandon <starbuck95@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Clues from Lists-Indexes, vol. 39
(Chancery Proc.,
Bridges' Division, 1613-1714, A-C)
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
A classic example of the pot calling the kettle
black
Oh, go play with yourself, you nerd.
How's that for childish? =)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:15:10 -0700
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married
Humphrey Jones
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Dear Will,
Sorry for not including the dates. Eleanor (Rogers)
Conway's will was dated
8 May 1718 and proven 9 Jul 1718. Lancaster Co.,
VA, W.B. 10, pg. 265.
Eleanor Rogers' first husband was Thomas White. He
died in 1711. Ida J.
Lee's will abstract has:
"WHITE, THOMAS. 9 May 1711. Rec. 2 Nov. 1711.
Elinor White, his then wife, appointed Extrx. W.B.
10, p. 3."
Lazarus Conway [Source: Mayor Jay Berry Price] was
Eleanor (Dale) White's
2nd husband. I don't have a specific date of their
marriage. But since she
carried the name "Elinor White" on 2 Nov 1711, and
she died in 1718,
survived by 4 CONWAY children (Josias, Winifred,
Elizabeth and Lazarus
Conway), she must have remarried in 1712-1713.
Jim Danley
charlotte c smith
-
WJhonson
Re: Black Duncan and his wives
<<In a message dated 07/12/07 16:35:09 Pacific Standard Time, leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:
Burke's Landed Gentry, 1937, page 1484, here is shown that Isabel Mackintosh married as his third wife Sir Duncan Campbell, 7th of Glenurchy (see Burke's Peerage, Breadalbane Earls) >>
W.A.R. has this Isabel in the pedigree of Camilla
#3717 http://www.wargs.com/royal/camilla.html
showing that she married
Robert Campbell of /Glenorchy/ , 3rd Bnt
Will Johnson
Burke's Landed Gentry, 1937, page 1484, here is shown that Isabel Mackintosh married as his third wife Sir Duncan Campbell, 7th of Glenurchy (see Burke's Peerage, Breadalbane Earls) >>
W.A.R. has this Isabel in the pedigree of Camilla
#3717 http://www.wargs.com/royal/camilla.html
showing that she married
Robert Campbell of /Glenorchy/ , 3rd Bnt
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
A clarification of timeframe: William and Richard?
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
From the above parish register, it would appear that Richard was married
previous to Jane Presly and had
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Date: 2007/07/12 Thu AM 10:46:17 EDT
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
A clarification of timeframe: William and Richard?
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
From the above parish register, it would appear that Richard was married
previous to Jane Presly and had
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Date: 2007/07/12 Thu AM 10:46:17 EDT
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
A clarification of timeframe: William and Richard?
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
From the above parish register, it would appear that Richard was married
previous to Jane Presly and had
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Date: 2007/07/12 Thu AM 10:46:17 EDT
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
A clarification of timeframe: William and Richard?
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson (d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale. "21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
From the above parish register, it would appear that Richard was married
previous to Jane Presly and had
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Date: 2007/07/12 Thu AM 10:46:17 EDT
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers & George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
"Itm I will & ordain yt (that) mh brother in Law Edwd. Blackmore & my
Sister Hannah shall have my son ISAAC WHITE my Son Josias Conway & my
daugher Winifred Conway & their Estate my said Children to be brought up by
them untill by Law they are at age
"Itm I will & ordain that my Bro. Wm. Rogers & Margt his wife shall have my
daughter Eliza Conway & my Son Lazarus Conway wth their Estates."
Based on the above information, I have that William Rogers (son of William
Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) married 1st Margaret (maiden name unknown) and then
Elizabeth (one source has her as DALE, the daughter of Reuben Dale &
Elizabeth Simmonds).
The children of William Rogers and his 1st wife, Margaret, are: John,
William, Richard and Elizabeth Rogers.
The child of William Rogers and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, is Anne Rogers.
[NOTE: Elizabeth, married (1) a YOUNG (possibly Thomas Young); (2) William
Dodson; (3) William Rogers. Her children are: Thomas, Robert and Reuben
Young; William and Charles Dodson; and Anne Rogers.]
Furthermore, I found my connection to ISAAC WHITE. He is the son of Eleanor
Rogers (daughter of William Rogers & Elizabeth Dale) and Thomas White. That
would make him the 1st & 2nd cousin of Catherine/Katherine Carter who
married Humphrey Jones.
Jim Danley
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
I don't think it's going to be possible to have a wife Jane Presly born 29 Jun 1664 giving birth to a son "John son of Richard Rogers" on 18 Dec 1676
So I'd suggest that this Richard Rogers has a prior unstated wife and then married Jane after these two births so sometime between 1679 and 1690ish.
Will Johnson
So I'd suggest that this Richard Rogers has a prior unstated wife and then married Jane after these two births so sometime between 1679 and 1690ish.
Will Johnson
-
John Higgins
Re: Black Duncan and his wives
According to SP 2:189, Isabel Mackintosh was mar. to Sir Robert Campbell,
3th Baronet, of Glenorchy - not to his father Sir Duncan. The 1937 BLG is
apparently wrong - the 19th [and last] edition has it right.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Black Duncan and his wives
contract dated 18 November 1573, Lady Jean Stewart and (2) contract dated 20
October 1597 Elizabeth Sinclair. Ten children by his first wife, six
children by his second wife.
(see Burke's Peerage, Breadalbane Earls)
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
3th Baronet, of Glenorchy - not to his father Sir Duncan. The 1937 BLG is
apparently wrong - the 19th [and last] edition has it right.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Black Duncan and his wives
The Complete Baronetage, volume II pages 282, 283 cover Sir Duncan
Campbell, 1st Bart., and 7th of Glenorchy. Here is shown that he married (1)
contract dated 18 November 1573, Lady Jean Stewart and (2) contract dated 20
October 1597 Elizabeth Sinclair. Ten children by his first wife, six
children by his second wife.
By his mistress Janet Burdon he had another two sons.
Burke's Landed Gentry, 1937, page 1484, here is shown that Isabel
Mackintosh married as his third wife Sir Duncan Campbell, 7th of Glenurchy
(see Burke's Peerage, Breadalbane Earls)
Burke's Peerage 1899 and 1938 and 1999 do not show a third wife for Black
Duncan.
Isabel Mackintosh, daughter of Lauchlan Mor Mackintosh, 16th Chief, and
Agnes Mackenzie, was she married to any Sir Duncan Campbell? Or who was he?
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-------------------------------
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-
John Higgins
Re: Hon. Alice Camoys wife of Sir Leoanrd Hastings
I think an extra, erroneous generation has been inserted here. Elizabeth
Botetourt, the wife of the 3rd Lord Latimer, is said by CP among other
sources to be daughter, not grand-daughter, of John, 1st Lord Botetourt.
(unless there's been some more recent discovery in this matter....)
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Hon. Alice Camoys wife of Sir Leoanrd Hastings
of England as follows
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Botetourt, the wife of the 3rd Lord Latimer, is said by CP among other
sources to be daughter, not grand-daughter, of John, 1st Lord Botetourt.
(unless there's been some more recent discovery in this matter....)
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Hon. Alice Camoys wife of Sir Leoanrd Hastings
In addition to the descent provided by DR of Alice (Camoys) Hastings from
Hugh le Despencer I am showing as well a descent for her from Henry II, King
of England as follows
Alice Camoys daughter of
Thomas 1st Baron Camoys (from 1372 to his death in 1421)
son of
Elizabeth Latimer who married Sir John Camoys of Bekerton (second son, "he
was aged 40 at IPM taken 30 Sep 1360")
daughter of
Elizabeth de Botetourt who married William 3rd Lord Latimer (he was born
"when his mother was 15")
daughter of unknown male Botetourt who was son of
John 1st Lord Botetourt died 25 Nov 1324 by his wife Maud "filia" Thomas
This Maud was daughter of
Thomas FitzOtho of Mendelsham, Suffolk who d 1274 by his wife Beatrice de
Beauchamp who d 1280/1
Beatrice was daughter of
Sir William de Beauchamp, Lord of Bedford d 1260 by his wife Ida Longespee
who d 1270
Ida was daughter of William Longespee, 3rd Earl of Salisbury and he was
the son of Henry II
Will Johnson
-------------------------------
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quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Colonna d'Istria
On Jul 13, 5:18 am, "Jack Baschon" <ebasche...@katamail.com> wrote:
Your slip is showing - on 5 May in the thread "Question about the
http://www.sardimpex.com website" here
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.gene ... a0646d6ce2
you posted using the guise of "Jack Baschon" and signed the email
"Jack".
Now the same identity is used with the equally phoney signature "Marco
Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita".
"Macedonio" might be the one genuine part of this macédoine of names &
claims, I suppose.
No-one cares what you call yourself, bogus or otherwise, but that you
are honest enough to represent your public utterances as your own is
the bare minimum of personal honour to be expected from anyone, much
less from a soi-disant duke.
Peter Stewart
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about46-genmarenostrum.html
On this site also:http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
Your slip is showing - on 5 May in the thread "Question about the
http://www.sardimpex.com website" here
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.gene ... a0646d6ce2
you posted using the guise of "Jack Baschon" and signed the email
"Jack".
Now the same identity is used with the equally phoney signature "Marco
Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita".
"Macedonio" might be the one genuine part of this macédoine of names &
claims, I suppose.
No-one cares what you call yourself, bogus or otherwise, but that you
are honest enough to represent your public utterances as your own is
the bare minimum of personal honour to be expected from anyone, much
less from a soi-disant duke.
Peter Stewart
-
Ford Mommaerts-Browne
Re: Colonna d'Istria
Thank you, Jack, for that information. My 'assumption' as to the introduction of the Istria particle is as you describe. The difference is that I only knew of the Istria in Yugoslavia. Are these Colonne any connection with the more famous lines at Rome?
Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Baschon" <ebaschenis@katamail.com>
To: "'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Colonna d'Istria
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Baschon" <ebaschenis@katamail.com>
To: "'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Colonna d'Istria
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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-
Jack Baschon
RE: Colonna d'Istria
The connection of the Corsica Line whit the famous Colonna in Roma is
disputed. The historical tradition use to say that they are descendents
from a Colonna count that move to Corsica island in the X century but,
btw, it is not proved or documented.
Ciao
Marco
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:51 AM
To: 'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
Thank you, Jack, for that information. My 'assumption' as to the
introduction of the Istria particle is as you describe. The difference
is that I only knew of the Istria in Yugoslavia. Are these Colonne any
connection with the more famous lines at Rome? Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Baschon" <ebaschenis@katamail.com>
To: "'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Colonna d'Istria
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
disputed. The historical tradition use to say that they are descendents
from a Colonna count that move to Corsica island in the X century but,
btw, it is not proved or documented.
Ciao
Marco
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:51 AM
To: 'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
Thank you, Jack, for that information. My 'assumption' as to the
introduction of the Istria particle is as you describe. The difference
is that I only knew of the Istria in Yugoslavia. Are these Colonne any
connection with the more famous lines at Rome? Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Baschon" <ebaschenis@katamail.com>
To: "'Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com'" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Colonna d'Istria
Dear Ford,
The "d'Istria" originated from the feudal possession of the fief and a
Castle of "Istria" in the south of the Corsica Island. Nothing to do
whit the "Istria" region in the former Yugoslavia!
Many families join the "d'Istria" to their family names, like Colonna
d'Istria, Corso d'Istria etc. because all of them are originated from
the same "consorteria" of the "d'Istria counts" in Corsica, parts of the
"Cinarchesi" family group (count of Cinarca, same located in Corsica)
from whom also descents the "Ornano", "Bozi" and some more families.
Here, in our Forum, you can find something about that argument:
http://genmarenostrum.forumup.it/about4 ... strum.html
On this site also: http://www.casa-longa.org/filiations/index.htm
Best Regards
Marco Lupis Macedonio Palermo di Santa Margherita
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Fw: Colonna d'Istria
I ask because an Alessandro Colonna d'Istria was gr.gr.father of Letizia
Ramolino. He was gov. of Istria, and this seemed to be where the
'd'Istria' might have been added to the name 'Colonna'. Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "jluc soler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: Colonna d'Istria
: sorry no... except that LOTS of them lives in my town : Marseilles,
having
: prestigious jobs as surgeons, high administrators etc...
:
:
: JL
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> a écrit dans le
message de
: news: mailman.22.1184208441.5496.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Knows anyone anything of the Colonna of Istria?
: >
:
:
:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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-
maria emma escobar
RE: GEN-MEDIEVAL Digest, Vol 2, Issue 709
Another later de Lara
I haven´t heard about any Leonor de Lara as a granddaughter of Nuño Gonzalez de Lara "el bueno" or his son Juan Núñez de Lara, and a I can´t find any reference to this person. I am sorry
In relation with Mayor (cognomento Gontrodo) Rodríguez, second wife of Pedro Froilaz de Traba, she was a daughter of Rodrigo Muñoz, conde of Asturias, and his wife Teresa:
Monasterio de Jubia, año 1.113:
"Ego domina Gontrode Roderiquiz, una cum consilio de viro meo nomine comite Petrus prolix Froilazi."........"comitissa domina Maior nomine Gontrode confirmat..."
Tumbo nuevo de Lugo:
"Comitissa domna Maior, comitis roderici Munionis filia, cum consenso viri mei comitis Petri"
Monasterio de Sahagún, 1.125:
"Ego Maior Ruderici, comitissa, comite Ruderici et comitisse Tharasie filia..."
Sahagún, 1.126
"Ego, comitissa Maior Roderici...ofero pro anima mariti mei comitis Petri de Gallecia.....una cum filis et filiabus meis Roderico Petriz, Velasco Petriz, García Petriz...."
If she would be a daughter of Armengol de Urgel, her name would be Mayor Armengol, like the real daughter of ArmengoL V: Estefanía Armengol
María Emma Escobar Uribe
Are our iberoaficionados on hiatus (Francisco Antonio Doria, Maria
Emma Escobar, taf)? A recent query of mine concerning the identity of
Leonor de Lara remains unanswered. She married a Juan Arias de
Quadros and was the mother of Elvira Arias, who married Gonzalo
Rodriguez de Cornado (d. 1341), senor de Azuaga, alcalde mayor of
Cordoba, and ayo of infante Pedro of Castile. The sources I have
(citing J.S. Crespo, "Blasones y Linajes de Galicia," and Federico
Mata Herera of the Academia Costarricense in a posting to the Genforum
Coronado family forum website) say Leonor was the granddaughter of
Juan Nunez de Lara (d. 1294). This claim seems a bit vague to me.
Can her parentage be more precisely ascertained?
In a similar vein, is it now the consensus that the father of Mayor,
the second wife of Pedro Froilaz de Traba, was Rodrigo Munoz rather
than Armengol V de Urgel?
---------------------------------
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
http://es.voice.yahoo.com
I haven´t heard about any Leonor de Lara as a granddaughter of Nuño Gonzalez de Lara "el bueno" or his son Juan Núñez de Lara, and a I can´t find any reference to this person. I am sorry
In relation with Mayor (cognomento Gontrodo) Rodríguez, second wife of Pedro Froilaz de Traba, she was a daughter of Rodrigo Muñoz, conde of Asturias, and his wife Teresa:
Monasterio de Jubia, año 1.113:
"Ego domina Gontrode Roderiquiz, una cum consilio de viro meo nomine comite Petrus prolix Froilazi."........"comitissa domina Maior nomine Gontrode confirmat..."
Tumbo nuevo de Lugo:
"Comitissa domna Maior, comitis roderici Munionis filia, cum consenso viri mei comitis Petri"
Monasterio de Sahagún, 1.125:
"Ego Maior Ruderici, comitissa, comite Ruderici et comitisse Tharasie filia..."
Sahagún, 1.126
"Ego, comitissa Maior Roderici...ofero pro anima mariti mei comitis Petri de Gallecia.....una cum filis et filiabus meis Roderico Petriz, Velasco Petriz, García Petriz...."
If she would be a daughter of Armengol de Urgel, her name would be Mayor Armengol, like the real daughter of ArmengoL V: Estefanía Armengol
María Emma Escobar Uribe
Are our iberoaficionados on hiatus (Francisco Antonio Doria, Maria
Emma Escobar, taf)? A recent query of mine concerning the identity of
Leonor de Lara remains unanswered. She married a Juan Arias de
Quadros and was the mother of Elvira Arias, who married Gonzalo
Rodriguez de Cornado (d. 1341), senor de Azuaga, alcalde mayor of
Cordoba, and ayo of infante Pedro of Castile. The sources I have
(citing J.S. Crespo, "Blasones y Linajes de Galicia," and Federico
Mata Herera of the Academia Costarricense in a posting to the Genforum
Coronado family forum website) say Leonor was the granddaughter of
Juan Nunez de Lara (d. 1294). This claim seems a bit vague to me.
Can her parentage be more precisely ascertained?
In a similar vein, is it now the consensus that the father of Mayor,
the second wife of Pedro Froilaz de Traba, was Rodrigo Munoz rather
than Armengol V de Urgel?
---------------------------------
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
http://es.voice.yahoo.com
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Everyone:
See below.
In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:12:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pajunkin@bellsouth.net writes:
This Jane Presley was the wife of Richard Rogers, brother of the
William Rogers that married Elizabeth Dale. Richard and William were sons of John
Rogers, Gentleman, of Northumberland County and his first wife, Ellen. Richard
Rogers died about 1697. Jane appears to have been Richard's only wife.
This William may have died young, which was not unusual.
Something that needs to be remembered is that repeatedly members of a
family would name their children for their parents, brothers and sisters and
aunts and uncles. So, in one generation, say four brothers would each have a
child named John or Richard or say William. We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
See below.
In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:12:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pajunkin@bellsouth.net writes:
A clarification of timeframe: William and Richard?
Jane Presley was the daugter of Peter Presley Sr. and Elizabeth Thompson
(d/o Richard Thompson and Ursula Bysshe Thompson Morrtom Colclough). She was
born 29 June 1664. She married first Richard Rogers and then Christopher Neale.
"21 Sept. 1709 - Christopher Neale, Gentleman(,) and Jane his wife, late
Jane Rogers, widow of Richard Rogers, Gent., dec'd., AND ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS OF
PETER PRESLY, Sr., GENT, late dec'd, of St. Stephen's Parish - "
This Jane Presley was the wife of Richard Rogers, brother of the
William Rogers that married Elizabeth Dale. Richard and William were sons of John
Rogers, Gentleman, of Northumberland County and his first wife, Ellen. Richard
Rogers died about 1697. Jane appears to have been Richard's only wife.
The following information comes from the research notes of Alice Algood who
has written a book on Ursula Bysshe and her descendants.
Richard Rogers and Jane Presly Rogers had four children who were named in
Richard's Will. They were,
Jane, born 12 April 1686 (St. Stephens Register)
Richard, born circa 1688-90
John b.c. 1693, (This could be the John listed below or a younger son)
Hannah, b.c. 1695.
From the above parish register, it would appear that Richard was married
previous to Jane Presly and had
John, chr. 18 Dec. 1676 , son to Richard
William, chr. 12 February 1679, son to Richard.
This William may have died young, which was not unusual.
Could this be the William to whom you refer, Joan?? From the time frame it
you list below ,would appear that it was.
Something that needs to be remembered is that repeatedly members of a
family would name their children for their parents, brothers and sisters and
aunts and uncles. So, in one generation, say four brothers would each have a
child named John or Richard or say William. We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery.
Joan Burdyck
Hope this helps,
Alice Algood
From: "James L. Danley" <jldanley@sbcglobal.net
Date: 2007/07/12 Thu AM 10:46:17 EDT
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Dear Will,
Mayor Jay Berry Price, in his book "The Price, Blakemore, Hamblen, Skipwith
and Allied Lines," on pg. 51, writes:
"The William Rogers who was ordered to appear in Court was the eldest son
of
William and Elizabeth (Dale) Rogers. He died in 1728 leaving a will which
named his five children and his brother George Rogers."
Ida J. Lee in her book, "Abstracts Lancaster County, Virginia, Wills
1653-1800," has the following abstracts:
"ROGERS, WM., of St. Mary's White Chappell Parish. 29 Apr 1728. Rec. 14
Jun 1728.
Wife: Elizabeth. Sons: Jno., Wm., Rich'd. Daus: Elizabeth and Anne.
Exors: Wife and brother, Geo. Rogers. Wits: Jno. Rogers, Bryan Pullen and
Chas. Sanford. W.B. 12, p. 54.
"Inv. returned by Eliza Rogers &George Rogers, Exors. 10 Jul 1725. W.B.
12, p. 65."
"ROGERS, ELIZ. widow of Wm. R. of White Chappell. 17 Sept. 1728. Rec. 13
Nov 1728.
Sons: Wm. Dodson. Dau: Ann Rogers. Others. Thos, Robt, and Reuben Young,
Chas. Dodson. Exor: son Thos. Young. Wits: Abraham Dale, Jos. Rogers and
Jno. Roach. W.B. 12, p. 76."
_____
Mayor Price, includes the will of Eleanor Conway on page 63 of his book.
Here are two excerpts (emphasis is mine):
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Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Everyone:
In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:21:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wjhonson@aol.com writes:
Well, you would think that would be the logically answer. But,
unfortunately, it was not unusual for a girl to be married by the age of 12 and a
mother by that age also in this time period in Northumberland County. As an
example of this, my ancestor, Jean Parker was 11 years old when she became pregnant
with her only child, Jane Pickering. Also, as I remember, at least one
member of the Wildy family of Northumberland County was married by 11 or 12. Just
of hand, without checking, I believe her name was Jane. I spoke to Preston
Haynie, one of the directors of the Northumberland County Historical Society
about this, he told me that this was not unusual. Today, this would be
unthinkable, but not then. If Richard had a wife before Jane, there is no record to
this fact.
Joan Burdyck
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In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:21:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wjhonson@aol.com writes:
I don't think it's going to be possible to have a wife Jane Presly born 29
Jun 1664 giving birth to a son "John son of Richard Rogers" on 18 Dec 1676
So I'd suggest that this Richard Rogers has a prior unstated wife and then
married Jane after these two births so sometime between 1679 and 1690ish.
Well, you would think that would be the logically answer. But,
unfortunately, it was not unusual for a girl to be married by the age of 12 and a
mother by that age also in this time period in Northumberland County. As an
example of this, my ancestor, Jean Parker was 11 years old when she became pregnant
with her only child, Jane Pickering. Also, as I remember, at least one
member of the Wildy family of Northumberland County was married by 11 or 12. Just
of hand, without checking, I believe her name was Jane. I spoke to Preston
Haynie, one of the directors of the Northumberland County Historical Society
about this, he told me that this was not unusual. Today, this would be
unthinkable, but not then. If Richard had a wife before Jane, there is no record to
this fact.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
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WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 07:49:45 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 07:49:45 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 07:49:45 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 07:49:45 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
We see that William Rogers (husband
of Elizabeth Dale) had a son William (who also had a son William) and also
Richard Rogers (brother of William, husband of Elizabeth) had a son William. So,
we know that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) and their son, William were
not the parents of Catherine Rogers who married Peter Carter. The son,
William of Richard Rogers, appears to have died young. So, the William Rogers,
father of Catherine is still a mystery. >>
You should correct the above to say "We know NEITHER that William (husband of Elizabeth Dale) NOR their son William, NOR his first cousin William were the parents of Catherine...."
We simply know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers.
So far I've seen no documentation that she could not be the daughter of Elizabeth Dale. I've seen a lot of people making one *claim* or another, without any documentation. But I haven't seen the documentation.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 07:49:59 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
Well, you would think that would be the logically answer. But, unfortunately, it was not unusual for a girl to be married by the age of 12 and a mother by that age also in this time period in Northumberland County.>>
There's one thing to be "betrothed" or "committed" or even have a marriage settlement or bond at the age of 12 or younger. We all know that there are examples in the royalty and not-so-much-royalty of this. That however is quite different from having sex at the age of 12, and getting pregnant at that age.
It would have been considered quite remarkable, imho, for that to occur. So you can keep making claims without support, or you can provide some support for your claims, in the way of hard documentation.
Will Johnson
Well, you would think that would be the logically answer. But, unfortunately, it was not unusual for a girl to be married by the age of 12 and a mother by that age also in this time period in Northumberland County.>>
There's one thing to be "betrothed" or "committed" or even have a marriage settlement or bond at the age of 12 or younger. We all know that there are examples in the royalty and not-so-much-royalty of this. That however is quite different from having sex at the age of 12, and getting pregnant at that age.
It would have been considered quite remarkable, imho, for that to occur. So you can keep making claims without support, or you can provide some support for your claims, in the way of hard documentation.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 12:21:29 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
You missed it. That was not unusual in Northumberland County in that time period. It happened. I know that it doesn't sound right, but it did happen.>>
Joan please provide the documentation that proves this statement.
Will Johnson
You missed it. That was not unusual in Northumberland County in that time period. It happened. I know that it doesn't sound right, but it did happen.>>
Joan please provide the documentation that proves this statement.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 12:25:29 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
Well, show us documentation that she is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. Go and sit for hours in the Northumberland and Lancaster County courthouses like I have done and see if you can find any information to prove that Catherine is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. It's not there.>>
I didn't say she IS
I said your statement that she is NOT is overstating what we know and don't know.
We know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers, the documentation has been presented. We're still waiting for the documentation from you that proves who all the children of each William Rogers were and weren't.
Got anything useful on that topic?
Well, show us documentation that she is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. Go and sit for hours in the Northumberland and Lancaster County courthouses like I have done and see if you can find any information to prove that Catherine is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. It's not there.>>
I didn't say she IS
I said your statement that she is NOT is overstating what we know and don't know.
We know that Kathe Rogers is called daughter of William Rogers, the documentation has been presented. We're still waiting for the documentation from you that proves who all the children of each William Rogers were and weren't.
Got anything useful on that topic?
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 12:33:48 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
Married, living as husband and wife, not committed and not betrothed. I think that you need to contact the person that I think is the leading authority on Northumberland County history and genealogy, Mr. Preston Haynie at the Northumberland County Historical Society. He will be able to educate you on the customs of Northumberland County. >>
"Appeal to authority" doesn't work on me sorry.
I work with hard documentation. I accept as authorities only a very few voices as all people should. When you're ready to play in the big leagues Joan come back. Until then your repeated ridiculous assertions are just that.
Thank you for your time.
Will Johnson
Married, living as husband and wife, not committed and not betrothed. I think that you need to contact the person that I think is the leading authority on Northumberland County history and genealogy, Mr. Preston Haynie at the Northumberland County Historical Society. He will be able to educate you on the customs of Northumberland County. >>
"Appeal to authority" doesn't work on me sorry.
I work with hard documentation. I accept as authorities only a very few voices as all people should. When you're ready to play in the big leagues Joan come back. Until then your repeated ridiculous assertions are just that.
Thank you for your time.
Will Johnson
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 12:42:06 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
My research papers are all in storage,>>
And here we have the kicker.
I think we're all done here folks
Nothing to see, move along.
My research papers are all in storage,>>
And here we have the kicker.
I think we're all done here folks
Nothing to see, move along.
-
WJhonson
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 12:57:15 Pacific Standard Time, Joemaryjoa writes:
You need to stop being so nasty and to at least consider that you might not be an authority on a place that you have never been and the customs of the people that lived there. You need to keep an open mind>>
This nasty exchange started when you started insisting that we have to listen to some authority figure instead of actually seeing the documentation.
THAT my dear is how hundreds of years of bad genealogy get started and it's not going to pass my eye without a comment or two [dozen]. The more you resist my dictum the more beastly I shall become.
As for your authority on Northumberland, I flick my nose at him.
As for your supposed almost-recruitment, it's probably a good thing as now all their hard-paid-for research would "be in storage" and then where would they be the poor things?
Now that you have figured out how to use a computer perhaps you'll mend your ways and store your research online ?
Will Johnson
You need to stop being so nasty and to at least consider that you might not be an authority on a place that you have never been and the customs of the people that lived there. You need to keep an open mind>>
This nasty exchange started when you started insisting that we have to listen to some authority figure instead of actually seeing the documentation.
THAT my dear is how hundreds of years of bad genealogy get started and it's not going to pass my eye without a comment or two [dozen]. The more you resist my dictum the more beastly I shall become.
As for your authority on Northumberland, I flick my nose at him.
As for your supposed almost-recruitment, it's probably a good thing as now all their hard-paid-for research would "be in storage" and then where would they be the poor things?
Now that you have figured out how to use a computer perhaps you'll mend your ways and store your research online ?
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Will,
I am not going to argue with you. Northumberland County is a subject
that you appear not be very versed on. As I said, my research papers are in
storage and I will check on the information when I can. Believe me, I can prove
that some females were married by 12 in Northumberland County in this time
frame. Believe it or not, it happened.
As for playing in the big leagues, which I never, ever said that I was,
I think that you might be interested to know that 10 years ago, I was offered
a position with the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation to conduct genealogy
research for them. I did not apply for the position, they approached me.
So, as I will be attending my late uncle's funeral service tomorrow, I
have more important things to do right now.
Joan
Joan
**************************************
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I am not going to argue with you. Northumberland County is a subject
that you appear not be very versed on. As I said, my research papers are in
storage and I will check on the information when I can. Believe me, I can prove
that some females were married by 12 in Northumberland County in this time
frame. Believe it or not, it happened.
As for playing in the big leagues, which I never, ever said that I was,
I think that you might be interested to know that 10 years ago, I was offered
a position with the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation to conduct genealogy
research for them. I did not apply for the position, they approached me.
So, as I will be attending my late uncle's funeral service tomorrow, I
have more important things to do right now.
Joan
Joan
**************************************
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-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Will:
Well, show us documentation that she is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and
William Rogers. Go and sit for hours in the Northumberland and Lancaster
County courthouses like I have done and see if you can find any information to
prove that Catherine is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. It's
not there.
Joan
**************************************
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Well, show us documentation that she is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and
William Rogers. Go and sit for hours in the Northumberland and Lancaster
County courthouses like I have done and see if you can find any information to
prove that Catherine is a daughter of Elizabeth Dale and William Rogers. It's
not there.
Joan
**************************************
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-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Will:
You missed it. That was not unusual in Northumberland County in that
time period. It happened. I know that it doesn't sound right, but it did
happen.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
You missed it. That was not unusual in Northumberland County in that
time period. It happened. I know that it doesn't sound right, but it did
happen.
Joan Burdyck
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Will:
Married, living as husband and wife, not committed and not betrothed. I
think that you need to contact the person that I think is the leading
authority on Northumberland County history and genealogy, Mr. Preston Haynie at the
Northumberland County Historical Society. He will be able to educate you on
the customs of Northumberland County.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Married, living as husband and wife, not committed and not betrothed. I
think that you need to contact the person that I think is the leading
authority on Northumberland County history and genealogy, Mr. Preston Haynie at the
Northumberland County Historical Society. He will be able to educate you on
the customs of Northumberland County.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Hi Will:
I think that you need to do your own research. My research papers are
all in storage, but when I get a chance, I will pull the information out and
present the documentation to you. The people in Northumberland and Lancaster
counties lived on an isolated peninsula, which is called the Northern Neck. It
was not unusual for a person to be married many times. They ran out of wives.
What is not acceptable today was acceptable then. Pull out any abstracts
from Beverly Fleet's books. Don't only look at births, look at wills and deeds.
Go to the Northumberland courthouse and pull out a record book and sit down
and read it. You will really get an education.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
I think that you need to do your own research. My research papers are
all in storage, but when I get a chance, I will pull the information out and
present the documentation to you. The people in Northumberland and Lancaster
counties lived on an isolated peninsula, which is called the Northern Neck. It
was not unusual for a person to be married many times. They ran out of wives.
What is not acceptable today was acceptable then. Pull out any abstracts
from Beverly Fleet's books. Don't only look at births, look at wills and deeds.
Go to the Northumberland courthouse and pull out a record book and sit down
and read it. You will really get an education.
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
-
Gjest
Re: Catherine/Katherine Carter married Humphrey Jones
Will:
You need to stop being so nasty and to at least consider that you might
not be an authority on a place that you have never been and the customs of the
people that lived there. You need to keep an open mind
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
You need to stop being so nasty and to at least consider that you might
not be an authority on a place that you have never been and the customs of the
people that lived there. You need to keep an open mind
Joan
**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
-
WJhonson
Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 19:29:21 Pacific Standard Time, VEWhite@nycap.rr.com writes:
I don't think we have to continue the conversation about Jane being only 12 when she had a child. In Genealogies of Virginia Families from "The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography"881 (1981), Volume 4:881 appears the following, dated 20 May 1703 in Northumberland Co. VA - >>
----------------------
Thanks Vickie for looking that up.
What is the incident that would explain why this occurred in 1703.
If they are acting as guardians for her minor children due to Richard's death, we've had that said to have occurred in 1697.
As to Jane bap 12 Apr 1686 dying early, could she not also have already gotten married? And then her mother and step-father would not be in the place of custodian of her minority but rather her husband would be. Right?
Will Johnson
I don't think we have to continue the conversation about Jane being only 12 when she had a child. In Genealogies of Virginia Families from "The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography"881 (1981), Volume 4:881 appears the following, dated 20 May 1703 in Northumberland Co. VA - >>
----------------------
Thanks Vickie for looking that up.
What is the incident that would explain why this occurred in 1703.
If they are acting as guardians for her minor children due to Richard's death, we've had that said to have occurred in 1697.
As to Jane bap 12 Apr 1686 dying early, could she not also have already gotten married? And then her mother and step-father would not be in the place of custodian of her minority but rather her husband would be. Right?
Will Johnson
-
Vickie Elam White
Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
Will,
I'm not really sure what triggered the 1703 action. Maybe a previous
executor died?
As for daughter Jane being married vs.dying by 1703, I haven't found any
evidence that any husband acted on her behalf in regards to her father's
estate, and she was too young to be a femme sole. Granted, I haven't looked
thoroughly, but it does seem to point to her being dead by then.
Vickie Elam White
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
Virginia Magazine of History and Biography"881 (1981), Volume 4:881 appears
the following, dated 20 May 1703 in Northumberland Co. VA - >>
place of custodian of her minority but rather her husband would be. Right?
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I'm not really sure what triggered the 1703 action. Maybe a previous
executor died?
As for daughter Jane being married vs.dying by 1703, I haven't found any
evidence that any husband acted on her behalf in regards to her father's
estate, and she was too young to be a femme sole. Granted, I haven't looked
thoroughly, but it does seem to point to her being dead by then.
Vickie Elam White
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
In a message dated 07/13/07 19:29:21 Pacific Standard Time,
VEWhite@nycap.rr.com writes:
I don't think we have to continue the conversation about Jane being only
12 when she had a child. In Genealogies of Virginia Families from "The
Virginia Magazine of History and Biography"881 (1981), Volume 4:881 appears
the following, dated 20 May 1703 in Northumberland Co. VA - >>
----------------------
Thanks Vickie for looking that up.
What is the incident that would explain why this occurred in 1703.
If they are acting as guardians for her minor children due to Richard's
death, we've had that said to have occurred in 1697.
As to Jane bap 12 Apr 1686 dying early, could she not also have already
gotten married? And then her mother and step-father would not be in the
place of custodian of her minority but rather her husband would be. Right?
Will Johnson
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WJhonson
Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
<<In a message dated 07/13/07 20:21:29 Pacific Standard Time, VEWhite@nycap.rr.com writes:
I'm not really sure what triggered the 1703 action. Maybe a previous
executor died? >>
If such a previous document could be found it would certainly answer the question about Jane, since it's doubtful she would have already been married as early as when her father died, but quite possible she'd be married by 1703 when she'd be 16 or 17.
I'm not really sure what triggered the 1703 action. Maybe a previous
executor died? >>
If such a previous document could be found it would certainly answer the question about Jane, since it's doubtful she would have already been married as early as when her father died, but quite possible she'd be married by 1703 when she'd be 16 or 17.
-
James L. Danley
Re: Jane (Presley) Rogers not a 12-yr old mother
Dear Will,
Family Archive CD #162 (Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. & Broderbund
Software) -- Family History: Virginia Genealogies #1, Genealogies of
Virginia Families IV, He-S, pgs. 871-885, is an article entitled "The
Preslys of Northumberland," by Mrs. O. A. Keach. On page 881, Mrs. Keach
writes the following:
"Jane Presly, born June 29, 1664 (St. Stephens Parish register), married
1st, Richard Rogers, Gentleman, son of Capt. John Rogers. He died 1697, and
Mrs. Jane Robert and Mr. Robert Banks were executors of his will, prov.
August 18, 1697.
"Jane Presly Rogers married 2nd in 1698, Capt. Christo. Neale, son of
Capt. Christopher and Hannah Rodham Neale. He served his county as Justice,
Sherif and Burgess.
"By her marriage with Richard Rogers, Jane Presly Rogers had Jane, born
April 12, 1686; Richard, John and Hannah.
"May 20, 1703. Commission of administration granted Christo. Neale and
Jane his wife, on the estate of Richard, John and Hannah Rogers, children of
sd Jane. These were minor children.
"The following deed first recorded by Col. Presly in 1709 was burned with
other records in 1710, and again recorded by Col. Presly in 1749. It is of
great value in determining family relationships.
"1709, September 21. Christo. Neale, gentleman and Jane his wife, late
Jane Rogers widow of Richard Rogers, gentleman, dec'd and one of the
daughters of Peter Presley, Sr. gentleman, late dec'd of St. Stephen's
Parish--to Peter Presly, now elder of same parish, gentleman, for 264
acres--on N. W. side of Chincahan Creek part of 1000 a. granted by -------
to Richard Russell, dated Septe. 25, 1657--deserted and taken up by James
Pope by deed dated 12th of October, 1660 for a valueable consideration, by
sd. Pope, made over unto Wm. Presly, and Peter Presly, the father (and donor
of the hereby granted land to the sd Jane by deed dated April 24, 1662 sd
264 a. bounded by the land of sd Peter Prtsly [sic] party to these presents
and land of the late Ebenezer Sanders, dec'd (son of Mrs. Mary Thomas dec'd
and Dr. Edward Sanders), now in the occupation of John Cockrill who married
the widow of sd Sanders.
"1749, June 13, The Book of Records wherein the above sd deed was
recorded being burned in the office on the sd Presly's motion is again
admitted to record. (This was recorded by Col. Peter Presly in 1749.)
"Capt. Christopher Neale and Jane Presly (Rogers) Neale had issue:
Peter
Edward
Presly."
I hope this helps!
Jim Danley
Family Archive CD #162 (Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. & Broderbund
Software) -- Family History: Virginia Genealogies #1, Genealogies of
Virginia Families IV, He-S, pgs. 871-885, is an article entitled "The
Preslys of Northumberland," by Mrs. O. A. Keach. On page 881, Mrs. Keach
writes the following:
"Jane Presly, born June 29, 1664 (St. Stephens Parish register), married
1st, Richard Rogers, Gentleman, son of Capt. John Rogers. He died 1697, and
Mrs. Jane Robert and Mr. Robert Banks were executors of his will, prov.
August 18, 1697.
"Jane Presly Rogers married 2nd in 1698, Capt. Christo. Neale, son of
Capt. Christopher and Hannah Rodham Neale. He served his county as Justice,
Sherif and Burgess.
"By her marriage with Richard Rogers, Jane Presly Rogers had Jane, born
April 12, 1686; Richard, John and Hannah.
"May 20, 1703. Commission of administration granted Christo. Neale and
Jane his wife, on the estate of Richard, John and Hannah Rogers, children of
sd Jane. These were minor children.
"The following deed first recorded by Col. Presly in 1709 was burned with
other records in 1710, and again recorded by Col. Presly in 1749. It is of
great value in determining family relationships.
"1709, September 21. Christo. Neale, gentleman and Jane his wife, late
Jane Rogers widow of Richard Rogers, gentleman, dec'd and one of the
daughters of Peter Presley, Sr. gentleman, late dec'd of St. Stephen's
Parish--to Peter Presly, now elder of same parish, gentleman, for 264
acres--on N. W. side of Chincahan Creek part of 1000 a. granted by -------
to Richard Russell, dated Septe. 25, 1657--deserted and taken up by James
Pope by deed dated 12th of October, 1660 for a valueable consideration, by
sd. Pope, made over unto Wm. Presly, and Peter Presly, the father (and donor
of the hereby granted land to the sd Jane by deed dated April 24, 1662 sd
264 a. bounded by the land of sd Peter Prtsly [sic] party to these presents
and land of the late Ebenezer Sanders, dec'd (son of Mrs. Mary Thomas dec'd
and Dr. Edward Sanders), now in the occupation of John Cockrill who married
the widow of sd Sanders.
"1749, June 13, The Book of Records wherein the above sd deed was
recorded being burned in the office on the sd Presly's motion is again
admitted to record. (This was recorded by Col. Peter Presly in 1749.)
"Capt. Christopher Neale and Jane Presly (Rogers) Neale had issue:
Peter
Edward
Presly."
I hope this helps!
Jim Danley
-
Saluzzo
RE: Resend:- Some Queries
Concernig the Sardimpex site, It seem's that the owner of the site got
some major legal problems in Italy and it was forced to avoid his site
to remain public. The owner, a certain mr. Davide Shamà, as been sued by
many important genalogical italian publisher, first of all by the
publisher of the "Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana". Due of this legal
pursue, it is emerged that this guy seem's to be completely uknown to
the italian and not italian world of scholars, university etc. and it is
used to copy the main part of his work from other sources (like the
cited "Annuario etc.).
At the moment, considering this legal situation, I'm afraid all this
"password-circus" seems very much a fake. Probably the owner has really
been sued and forced not to maintain public the site and is trying to
"hide" this fact under the alleged "password restriction"...
Saluzzo
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 5:09 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Resend:- Some Queries
I am resubmitting these queries as, due to putting a 'too cutsey'
subject heading, (my fault), they seem to have been deleted/ignored last
time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@Cox.net>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:43 PM
Subject: Some Queries - Was Never Prime Minister Blair
1. What seems to be the current wisdom on the provenance og Rurik,
the founder of the Russian state?
2. Does anyone have anything on the family of the Shetland Islands
descended from Auda the Deep-Minded? I think that their name was
something like Gateskellir.
3. Does anyone know anything of Rogvolod, Prince of Polotsk,
father-in-law of Vladimir I?
4. Is their a work on the Genghisids of the Russias?
5. What is the current situation with David Shamia's site?
-------------------------------
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--
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some major legal problems in Italy and it was forced to avoid his site
to remain public. The owner, a certain mr. Davide Shamà, as been sued by
many important genalogical italian publisher, first of all by the
publisher of the "Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana". Due of this legal
pursue, it is emerged that this guy seem's to be completely uknown to
the italian and not italian world of scholars, university etc. and it is
used to copy the main part of his work from other sources (like the
cited "Annuario etc.).
At the moment, considering this legal situation, I'm afraid all this
"password-circus" seems very much a fake. Probably the owner has really
been sued and forced not to maintain public the site and is trying to
"hide" this fact under the alleged "password restriction"...
Saluzzo
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ford
Mommaerts-Browne
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 5:09 PM
To: Gen-Medieval@RootsWeb.com
Subject: Resend:- Some Queries
I am resubmitting these queries as, due to putting a 'too cutsey'
subject heading, (my fault), they seem to have been deleted/ignored last
time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@Cox.net>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:43 PM
Subject: Some Queries - Was Never Prime Minister Blair
1. What seems to be the current wisdom on the provenance og Rurik,
the founder of the Russian state?
2. Does anyone have anything on the family of the Shetland Islands
descended from Auda the Deep-Minded? I think that their name was
something like Gateskellir.
3. Does anyone know anything of Rogvolod, Prince of Polotsk,
father-in-law of Vladimir I?
4. Is their a work on the Genghisids of the Russias?
5. What is the current situation with David Shamia's site?
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
--
Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
Conto Arancio: fino a marzo 2008 4,50%. Aprilo ora!
Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?midg44&d-7