Nicholas Poyntz

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Nicholas Poyntz

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 feb 2008 22:17:39

I am trying to straighten out the various Nihcolas Poyntzs running around between 1300-1400. As per the 1623 Gloucester visitation, Nicholas Poyntz (b 1278)?married Elizabeth La Zouche about 1295. They had sons Hugh (born 1296, as he made proof of age in 1317)?and Nicholas (born by1305 as he is listed as rector of St. Marys in Hoo Kent in 1330).? Hugh (1296) married Margaret Paynel by 1318. They had a son Nicholas said to be born Aug 24 1318. Now comes the problem. In Visitations of Gloucestershire and Essex, he is listed as having married Eleanor Erliegh, and having a daughter Margaret that married John Newburgh. The Gloucestershire visitation claims he died in 1359. However, in Dorset records dated 1342, is the following:

Cites final concord of 1330 in which Hugh Poyntz of Corymalet (Curry Mallet, Somerset) querent, and Nicholas Poyntz, parson of the Church of the Blessed Mary of Hoo (Kent) and Hugh de Melyplassh, parson of the church of Corymalet, deforciants, agreed concerning the manor of Rocklegh in Wiltshire (held by John Godhyve ? for his life), and the manor of Sutton Poyntz, (held by Roger de Chaundos and wife Matilda as her dowry from said Nicholas). Remainder to Hugh's sons Nicholas, Hugh, Walter, Henry, Thomas.
Writ states that Matilda and Hugh Poyntz are now dead, also their son Nicholas, and that certain men called Richd. Neuton, Robt. Caundyssh, Robt. Corf, clerk, Peter Dormun (?), clerk, and Wm. Ketyll now hold the manor.
They are to appear at Westminster to state why John Neuburg senior, kin and heir of Nicholas Poyntz, should not have the manor of Sutton Poyntz

According to the above, Nicholas the son was dead by 1342, which would still work if Margaret was born about 1340. One problem is that in 1333, Hugh and Margaret granted Hoo Manor to "Nicholas and his wife Eleanor"? If this was his son Nicholas, Nicholas would have been only about 15 at the time, and while child marriages did happen, He would not have been able to possess any property until age 21. If Hugh deeded the manor to his brother Nicholas, the rector??? Could the clergy in 1300 time frame be married and have children? The Visitation of Essex shows Hugh's brother Nicholas as having married (no wife listed) and having a son Nicholas that died in 1372(who started the North Ockedon, Essex line) Since there is a Nicholas Poyntz running around in 1346, and granting the Manor of Hoo to John de Grey of Codnor, is this the rector, or his son Nicholas? Does anyone know of a marriage for either one??

Any comments on the above will be appreciated. Why could they use different names, instead of the same 2 or 3 over and over again??

Ken
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wjhonson

Re: Nicholas Poyntz

Legg inn av wjhonson » 12 feb 2008 06:05:02

This document which Ken cites, which you may review here
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/records.as ... d=2-1-24-1

is bad, very bad.

I already knew that Hugh 3rd Lord Poyntz of Cory Malet died sometime
between 1 Jan 1336 and 1 May 1337, so it makes sense that he drafts a
concord in 1330, and then there's a fight over it in 1342.

The problem is, the nature of the dispute. Evidently, not only is he
dead, but also his eldest son Nicholas is also dead.

Margaret (Poyntz) Newburgh is given as the "eldest daughter and co-
heiress" of NICHOLAS, which her sister Amys (Poyntz) Berry is "second
daughter and co-heiress".

The above document, if it can actually be verified to 16E3 and that is
not some sort of mistaken reading, who imply that both Margaret and
Amyas were married not merely as *children* but as infants barely out
of their cradle. And that John Newburgh must be at least 20 years
older than what I'd had.

Does Nicholas, 4th Lord Poyntz have an IPM where the ages of his co-
heiresses might be specified?

Will Johnson

Renia

Re: Nicholas Poyntz

Legg inn av Renia » 12 feb 2008 09:16:23

wjhonson wrote:


Margaret (Poyntz) Newburgh is given as the "eldest daughter and co-
heiress" of NICHOLAS, which her sister Amys (Poyntz) Berry is "second
daughter and co-heiress".

I'm new to this one and have done no research whatsoever, but I was told
that Pons (DB)was the ancestor of the Bury family as well as of Pointz
and a couple of others. Who is the Berry that Amys Poyntz married?

wjhonson

Re: Nicholas Poyntz

Legg inn av wjhonson » 12 feb 2008 09:49:02

On Feb 12, 12:16 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
wjhonson wrote:

Margaret (Poyntz) Newburgh is given as the "eldest daughter and co-
heiress" of NICHOLAS, which her sister Amys (Poyntz) Berry is "second
daughter and co-heiress".

I'm new to this one and have done no research whatsoever, but I was told
that Pons (DB)was the ancestor of the Bury family as well as of Pointz
and a couple of others. Who is the Berry that Amys Poyntz married?

John Berry
see
http://books.google.com/books?id=hqwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA268
Vis Essex 1612, "Poyntz"

Renia

Re: Nicholas Poyntz

Legg inn av Renia » 12 feb 2008 13:01:26

wjhonson wrote:
On Feb 12, 12:16 am, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:
wjhonson wrote:

Margaret (Poyntz) Newburgh is given as the "eldest daughter and co-
heiress" of NICHOLAS, which her sister Amys (Poyntz) Berry is "second
daughter and co-heiress".
I'm new to this one and have done no research whatsoever, but I was told
that Pons (DB)was the ancestor of the Bury family as well as of Pointz
and a couple of others. Who is the Berry that Amys Poyntz married?

John Berry
see
http://books.google.com/books?id=hqwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA268
Vis Essex 1612, "Poyntz"

Thank you. It doesn't seem to be searchable, though.

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