Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica, 1837, p 186, contains some
speculation about the marriages of Margaret de Staunton, daughter of
Sir William de Staunton (d 1326).
Colepeper's 'Adversaria' is cited for the proposition that she married
firstly Roger Belers.
She is known to have married, as his second wife, Ralph de Frecheville
(died 1325) - see CP sub Frecheville for evidence that she was the
mother of Ralph's younger son, Aucher de Frecheville (d c1391).
A third marriage is also referred to, again citing Colepeper; this
third husband is said to have been Ralph de Lathbury.
Additionaly, the IPM of Thomas Bardolf (Esc 3 Ewdard III n 66) is
abstracted; this includes the following statement:
"Margaret, who was the wife of Ralph de Frecheville, and Ralph son of
Ralph de Lathbury, held of the same Thomas two knights' fees in
Alwaldeston, Aylwaldeston (sic), Thurleston, Egynton, Ambaldeston and
Boleton, in the county of Derbyshire".
There properties were apparently afterwards held by the senior branch
of the Frecheville family (eg IPM of Ralph Frecheville the younger,
who was the stepson of Margaret Staunton) and thus the entry for 3
Edeward III (1329-1330) likely represents a dower interest in them by
Margaret Staunton.
The IPM may well be the source of Colepeper's contention that Margaret
married Ralph Lathbury, who could then presumably be identified as the
son of an earlier Ralph Lathbury, as per the IPM.
Turning to a further useful post by Rosie Bevan in the archives (dated
20 August 2005) we see the following brief pedigree for the Lathburys
which may allow us to place this Ralph:
"1. Ralph de Lathbury; chamberlain of Ralph Pipard. His wife was
Margaret who quitclaimed her dower in favour of Matilda daughter of
John Giffard of Chillington. Margaret was dead before 6 March 1324
(date of writ) when Ralph, son of Ralph Lathbury, aged 16 and more was
her next heir [CIPM 6 no. 498].
2. Ralph, son and heir of Ralph, occ.1304-7, dcd.1325, m. Margaret (fl.
1304-25). John Giffard of Chillington bought the wardship and
marriage of Ralph, son of Ralph Lathbury in 1315 from Ralph de
Freschville (Wolley, ix, 31,32). Ralph's wife Margaret (D5236/6/5) was
probably a daughter of John Giffard. Ralph was dead by 22 June 1326
(date of writ) when his IPM recorded that Robert his brother was his
next heir aged 15 and more [CIPM 6 no. 656].
An alternative construction would be that the younger Ralph Lathbury
married a daughter of Ralph de Frecheville (who had purchased his
marriage) and acquired an interest in the Frecheville properties as
part of a consequent settlement.
MA-R
Lathbury/Staunton?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Lathbury/Staunton?
On Feb 9, 12:43 pm, mj...@btinternet.com wrote:
A possible explanation for the coupling of the names of Margaret
Frecheville nee Staunton and Roger Belers may be found in Thoroton's
'Antiquities of Nottinghamshire', Rushcliffe hundred, p 87, dealing
with the acquisition of a moiety of the manor of Crich by Roger Belers
from the Frecheville family:
"[In 19 Edward II - ie 1325-6] Raph, Son of Raph de Frechevill put his
claim to the Fine which the said Raph de Frechenvill levied of the
manor of Boney, 18 Edward I [1289-1290], to the said Roger Beler and
his Heirs for ever, who held two parts of this Manor of Boney;
Margaret the Wife of Raph de Frecheville, holding the third [part] in
Dower. Roger Beler his Son and Heir was then above seven Years old.
Alice, the Wife of the said Roger Beler, besought the said Margaret,
who was the Wife of Raph de Frecheville, for her reasonably Dower out
of the Manor of Crich."
This would tend to exclude Margaret Frecheville nee Staunton as
previously having been the wife of Roger Beler, since we know that the
elder Roger died leaving a widow Alice. Furthermore, since the
younger Roger was a young child at the time of Margaret's widowhood,
it is unlikely that she was married to him either.
CP sub Frecheville, which examines the identity of Margaret Staunton,
but to which I do not currently have access, may shed further light on
this issue.
MA-R
Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica, 1837, p 186, contains some
speculation about the marriages of Margaret de Staunton, daughter of
Sir William de Staunton (d 1326).
Colepeper's 'Adversaria' is cited for the proposition that she married
firstly Roger Belers.
A possible explanation for the coupling of the names of Margaret
Frecheville nee Staunton and Roger Belers may be found in Thoroton's
'Antiquities of Nottinghamshire', Rushcliffe hundred, p 87, dealing
with the acquisition of a moiety of the manor of Crich by Roger Belers
from the Frecheville family:
"[In 19 Edward II - ie 1325-6] Raph, Son of Raph de Frechevill put his
claim to the Fine which the said Raph de Frechenvill levied of the
manor of Boney, 18 Edward I [1289-1290], to the said Roger Beler and
his Heirs for ever, who held two parts of this Manor of Boney;
Margaret the Wife of Raph de Frecheville, holding the third [part] in
Dower. Roger Beler his Son and Heir was then above seven Years old.
Alice, the Wife of the said Roger Beler, besought the said Margaret,
who was the Wife of Raph de Frecheville, for her reasonably Dower out
of the Manor of Crich."
This would tend to exclude Margaret Frecheville nee Staunton as
previously having been the wife of Roger Beler, since we know that the
elder Roger died leaving a widow Alice. Furthermore, since the
younger Roger was a young child at the time of Margaret's widowhood,
it is unlikely that she was married to him either.
CP sub Frecheville, which examines the identity of Margaret Staunton,
but to which I do not currently have access, may shed further light on
this issue.
MA-R
-
jonathan kirton
Re: Lathbury/Staunton?
Dear Michael,
I was interested in your mention of Sir William de Staunton (died
1326) and his daughter, Margaret de Staunton.
He is, I presume, the same Sir William de Staunton of Scarthorpe and
Silkeby, co. Notts. (History of the Commonners, Burke, Vol.1, p.527)
who was the husband of Isabel de Kirketon, sister of Sir Ralph de
Kirketon, Knight. Isabel was , I suppose, Margaret's mother? Can you
tell me the name of William and Isabel's son and heir, who was the
father of Sir Geoffrey de Staunton, grandson of Sir William,. who by
1326 became the heir of his grandfather?
Can you confirm that this Sir Ralph de Kirketon and his sister Isabel
de Kirketon were the children of Sir Alexander (Bozon) de Kirketon
and his wife Dionisia (nee St. Paul) of Sibthorpe, co. Notts..
(Calendar of Patent Rolls, 22 Edward III, part 1, Vol. 8, p.53 (12
Feb., 1348))?
Many thanks,
Jonathan Kirton
I was interested in your mention of Sir William de Staunton (died
1326) and his daughter, Margaret de Staunton.
He is, I presume, the same Sir William de Staunton of Scarthorpe and
Silkeby, co. Notts. (History of the Commonners, Burke, Vol.1, p.527)
who was the husband of Isabel de Kirketon, sister of Sir Ralph de
Kirketon, Knight. Isabel was , I suppose, Margaret's mother? Can you
tell me the name of William and Isabel's son and heir, who was the
father of Sir Geoffrey de Staunton, grandson of Sir William,. who by
1326 became the heir of his grandfather?
Can you confirm that this Sir Ralph de Kirketon and his sister Isabel
de Kirketon were the children of Sir Alexander (Bozon) de Kirketon
and his wife Dionisia (nee St. Paul) of Sibthorpe, co. Notts..
(Calendar of Patent Rolls, 22 Edward III, part 1, Vol. 8, p.53 (12
Feb., 1348))?
Many thanks,
Jonathan Kirton
-
Gjest
Re: Lathbury/Staunton?
On Feb 10, 10:38 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Yes, I believe so.
According to Thoroton (Newark Hundred, p 308) Sir William was the
father of another William de Staunton, who was living in 1312 but died
vita patris, and who was in turn the father of Geoffrey de Staunton.
That I don't know - sorry.
But your CPR citation is a very interesting find and gives much food
for thought, Jonathan - well done!
Cheers, Michael
wrote:
Dear Michael,
I was interested in your mention of Sir William de Staunton (died
1326) and his daughter, Margaret de Staunton.
He is, I presume, the same Sir William de Staunton of Scarthorpe and
Silkeby, co. Notts. (History of the Commonners, Burke, Vol.1, p.527)
who was the husband of Isabel de Kirketon, sister of Sir Ralph de
Kirketon, Knight. Isabel was , I suppose, Margaret's mother?
Yes, I believe so.
Can you
tell me the name of William and Isabel's son and heir, who was the
father of Sir Geoffrey de Staunton, grandson of Sir William, who by
1326 became the heir of his grandfather?
According to Thoroton (Newark Hundred, p 308) Sir William was the
father of another William de Staunton, who was living in 1312 but died
vita patris, and who was in turn the father of Geoffrey de Staunton.
Can you confirm that this Sir Ralph de Kirketon and his sister Isabel
de Kirketon were the children of Sir Alexander (Bozon) de Kirketon
and his wife Dionisia (nee St. Paul) of Sibthorpe, co. Notts..
(Calendar of Patent Rolls, 22 Edward III, part 1, Vol. 8, p.53 (12
Feb., 1348))?
That I don't know - sorry.
But your CPR citation is a very interesting find and gives much food
for thought, Jonathan - well done!
Cheers, Michael
-
jonathan kirton
Re: Lathbury/Staunton? (& de Kirketon)
Dear Michael,
Thanks for your reply.
An additional piece of information appears in "The Manuscripts of His
Grace the Duke of Rutland, Preserved at Belvoir Castle", Vol.IV, p.
9 : "c. July, 1268 Charter of Robert de Ros, lord of Belver
(sic).........., Testibus Domino Alexandro de Kirketon; domino
Radulifo filio eius......"
Which tells me that by 1268 Sir Alexander de Kirketon, Kt., and his
son, Sir Ralph de Kirketon, Kt. had both been knighted.
Robert de Ros and Alexander de Kirketon had had a long friendship
since they had gone together to the Battle of Evesham during the
"Barons' War", in Aug., 1265 when Prince Edward defeated Simon de
Montfort, Earl of Leicester, who was killed, and Henry III was
restored to the throne. (Knights of Edward I, p. 290)
Subsequently quite a few years later, before Sir Robert died, in 1285
he enfeoffed Alexander de Kyrketon and his heirs, of all the rents of
the Manor of Belvoir at Melton, co. Lincs., reserving to himself
small customs worth 20 shillings and six pence yearly, said Manor
which he held of the king in chief by service of one knight's fee.
(CIPM 2: 343-4)
Sir Alexander de Kirketon also died in London in that same year, and
was interred at the Gray Friars' Church, Faringdon Ward, London,
"between the choir and the altar,...... Alexander de Kirketon,
Knight." His tomb stone was evidently still visible when John Stow
wrote "A Survey of London in the Year 1598" and recorded the
monuments in the body of that church. (page 129)
I suspect that these two "Sir Ralph de Kirketons", the one described
above, and the one who was the brother of Isabel, the wife of Sir
William de Staunton, are indeed one and the same man, but would very
much like to have some proof of it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton
Thanks for your reply.
An additional piece of information appears in "The Manuscripts of His
Grace the Duke of Rutland, Preserved at Belvoir Castle", Vol.IV, p.
9 : "c. July, 1268 Charter of Robert de Ros, lord of Belver
(sic).........., Testibus Domino Alexandro de Kirketon; domino
Radulifo filio eius......"
Which tells me that by 1268 Sir Alexander de Kirketon, Kt., and his
son, Sir Ralph de Kirketon, Kt. had both been knighted.
Robert de Ros and Alexander de Kirketon had had a long friendship
since they had gone together to the Battle of Evesham during the
"Barons' War", in Aug., 1265 when Prince Edward defeated Simon de
Montfort, Earl of Leicester, who was killed, and Henry III was
restored to the throne. (Knights of Edward I, p. 290)
Subsequently quite a few years later, before Sir Robert died, in 1285
he enfeoffed Alexander de Kyrketon and his heirs, of all the rents of
the Manor of Belvoir at Melton, co. Lincs., reserving to himself
small customs worth 20 shillings and six pence yearly, said Manor
which he held of the king in chief by service of one knight's fee.
(CIPM 2: 343-4)
Sir Alexander de Kirketon also died in London in that same year, and
was interred at the Gray Friars' Church, Faringdon Ward, London,
"between the choir and the altar,...... Alexander de Kirketon,
Knight." His tomb stone was evidently still visible when John Stow
wrote "A Survey of London in the Year 1598" and recorded the
monuments in the body of that church. (page 129)
I suspect that these two "Sir Ralph de Kirketons", the one described
above, and the one who was the brother of Isabel, the wife of Sir
William de Staunton, are indeed one and the same man, but would very
much like to have some proof of it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton