Shakespearian Tragedy ?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Leo van de Pas
Shakespearian Tragedy ?
There are people who doubt William Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him, now there is someone who does want to attribute something to him and if proven (I doubt in will or can) could have interesting implications.
Only today did I pick up the Christmas issue 2007 of Family History Monthly. On page 12 is a story about the research of Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel. She lectures in English Literature at the University of Mainz in Germany.
I will let her speak for herself, but I am going to change one word, she says she produced evidence, and I think it is only a suggestion.
"For centuries there has been doubt about the identity of Shakespeare's 'Dark Lady', who he wrote a number of sonnets about. I believe she was Elizabeth Vernon, who in 1598 married the Earl of Southampton, when she was already highly pregnant. I was able to produce suggestions that it was William Shakespeare, not the 3rd Earl of Southampton, who fathered Vernon's first-born daughter Penelope."
"One of my main sources was the painting "The Persian Lady" by Marcus Gheeraerts the Younger., created in the 1590s when Shakespeare's sonnets were written. Until now its subject has never been convincingly identified. I believe her to be the Countess of Southampton. The paintings contains an anonymous sonnet, which may have been authorised by Shakespeare. This turned out to be the missing final poem of the Dark Lady cycle., in which the turbulent three-way relationship between the poet, his mistress and his noble friend is described. The 'friend' was the third Earl of Southampton."
(Don't forget she lives in Germany) "With an expert from the German Federal Bureau of Criminal Investigation, I compared the Persian Lady's facial features with those in a portrait of the Countess of Southampton dating from about 1600. They proved to be in striking agreement. A comparison between a portrait of Penelope and those of her alleged father, the Earl of Southampton, showed no resemblance at all. A compaqrison between Penelope and an image of Shakespeare, however, revealed a striking resemblance."
"Additional evidence for the relationship between Elizabeth and Shakespeare comes from an overlooked clue in the portrait of the Countess of Southampton: the face of a man on her sleeve. This does not have the features of her husband. However, it does bear an amazing resemblance to William Shakespeare."
"My investigations into the identity of Shakespeare's Dark Lady took roughly three years. Once the identity of the poet's beloved was established and the question of who had fathered her first-born child settled, it was easy to find out that a direct bloodline existed through to the present day, passing through the Spencer family."
------------------------------------
Does anyone know those sonnets? Are they about a triangle in which the young nobleman marries the poets pregnant mistress?
Interesting and fascinating.
Through "the Spencer family" quite a few interesting and important people are descended from this Penelope and so (possibly) from William Shakespeare.
Author Lady Antonia Fraser, the Duke of Richmond, the Earl of Albemarle, Sarah Ferguson, the Prince von Thurn und Taxis,
the Duke of Buccleuch, the Duke of Devonshire, the Duke of Abercorn, the Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, the Earl of Lichfield, HM the Queen, the Duke of Roxburghe, the Duke of Marlborough, Rachel Ward, the Prince zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, the Prince zu Bentheim-Tecklenburg, the Prince zu Furstenberg, the Duke of Westminster, the Marquess of Salisbury, the Duke of Leinster, Davina Sheffield, the Duke of Bedford, and by the way also Lady Diana Spencer.
I have made a file with 6,974 descendants (plus spouses plus in-laws) of this Penelope, if anyone is interested, I gladly pass it on.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Only today did I pick up the Christmas issue 2007 of Family History Monthly. On page 12 is a story about the research of Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel. She lectures in English Literature at the University of Mainz in Germany.
I will let her speak for herself, but I am going to change one word, she says she produced evidence, and I think it is only a suggestion.
"For centuries there has been doubt about the identity of Shakespeare's 'Dark Lady', who he wrote a number of sonnets about. I believe she was Elizabeth Vernon, who in 1598 married the Earl of Southampton, when she was already highly pregnant. I was able to produce suggestions that it was William Shakespeare, not the 3rd Earl of Southampton, who fathered Vernon's first-born daughter Penelope."
"One of my main sources was the painting "The Persian Lady" by Marcus Gheeraerts the Younger., created in the 1590s when Shakespeare's sonnets were written. Until now its subject has never been convincingly identified. I believe her to be the Countess of Southampton. The paintings contains an anonymous sonnet, which may have been authorised by Shakespeare. This turned out to be the missing final poem of the Dark Lady cycle., in which the turbulent three-way relationship between the poet, his mistress and his noble friend is described. The 'friend' was the third Earl of Southampton."
(Don't forget she lives in Germany) "With an expert from the German Federal Bureau of Criminal Investigation, I compared the Persian Lady's facial features with those in a portrait of the Countess of Southampton dating from about 1600. They proved to be in striking agreement. A comparison between a portrait of Penelope and those of her alleged father, the Earl of Southampton, showed no resemblance at all. A compaqrison between Penelope and an image of Shakespeare, however, revealed a striking resemblance."
"Additional evidence for the relationship between Elizabeth and Shakespeare comes from an overlooked clue in the portrait of the Countess of Southampton: the face of a man on her sleeve. This does not have the features of her husband. However, it does bear an amazing resemblance to William Shakespeare."
"My investigations into the identity of Shakespeare's Dark Lady took roughly three years. Once the identity of the poet's beloved was established and the question of who had fathered her first-born child settled, it was easy to find out that a direct bloodline existed through to the present day, passing through the Spencer family."
------------------------------------
Does anyone know those sonnets? Are they about a triangle in which the young nobleman marries the poets pregnant mistress?
Interesting and fascinating.
Through "the Spencer family" quite a few interesting and important people are descended from this Penelope and so (possibly) from William Shakespeare.
Author Lady Antonia Fraser, the Duke of Richmond, the Earl of Albemarle, Sarah Ferguson, the Prince von Thurn und Taxis,
the Duke of Buccleuch, the Duke of Devonshire, the Duke of Abercorn, the Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, the Earl of Lichfield, HM the Queen, the Duke of Roxburghe, the Duke of Marlborough, Rachel Ward, the Prince zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, the Prince zu Bentheim-Tecklenburg, the Prince zu Furstenberg, the Duke of Westminster, the Marquess of Salisbury, the Duke of Leinster, Davina Sheffield, the Duke of Bedford, and by the way also Lady Diana Spencer.
I have made a file with 6,974 descendants (plus spouses plus in-laws) of this Penelope, if anyone is interested, I gladly pass it on.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Shakespearian Tragedy ?
This isn't new, Leo - see
http://www.hammerschmidt-hummel.de/tran ... er2000.htm
The word that tells the story is not "evidence" so much as her claim that
she "produced" this, rather than uncovered it.
"Evidence" from supposed resemblances can only be subjective and practically
worthless, no matter what forensic techniques are applied. There are only so
many reference points in a human face, much less in a two-dimensional
painting of one, and comparison is not an exact science.
Nor is reading. A great deal can be - and far more than a great deal has
been - read into Shakespeare's sonnets, but there is nothing specific enough
in them to justify even the departure point of Hammerschmidt-Hummel's effort
to produce "evidence".
Peter Stewart
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2606.1201327027.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
<snip>
http://www.hammerschmidt-hummel.de/tran ... er2000.htm
The word that tells the story is not "evidence" so much as her claim that
she "produced" this, rather than uncovered it.
"Evidence" from supposed resemblances can only be subjective and practically
worthless, no matter what forensic techniques are applied. There are only so
many reference points in a human face, much less in a two-dimensional
painting of one, and comparison is not an exact science.
Nor is reading. A great deal can be - and far more than a great deal has
been - read into Shakespeare's sonnets, but there is nothing specific enough
in them to justify even the departure point of Hammerschmidt-Hummel's effort
to produce "evidence".
Peter Stewart
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2606.1201327027.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
<snip>
Only today did I pick up the Christmas issue 2007 of Family
History Monthly. On page 12 is a story about the research of
Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel. She lectures in English
Literature at the University of Mainz in Germany.
I will let her speak for herself, but I am going to change one word,
she says she produced evidence, and I think it is only a suggestion.
"For centuries there has been doubt about the identity of Shakespeare's
'Dark Lady', who he wrote a number of sonnets about. I believe she
was Elizabeth Vernon, who in 1598 married the Earl of Southampton,
when she was already highly pregnant. I was able to produce suggestions
that it was William Shakespeare, not the 3rd Earl of Southampton, who
fathered Vernon's first-born daughter Penelope."
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Shakespearian Tragedy ?
If anyone is still interested in this, the sonnet inscribed on a cartouche
in the portrait of a "Persian Lady" is copied below. There is nothing in
these lines to suggest that Shakespeare had anything to do with it.
Peter Stewart
The restles swallow fits my restles minde,
in still revivinge still renewinge wronges;
her Just complaintes of cruelly unkinde,
are all the Musique, that my life prolonges.
With pensive thoughtes my weeping Stagg I crowne
whose Melancholy teares my cares Expresse
hes Teares in sylence, and my sighes unknowne
are all the physicke that my harmes redresse.
My onely hope was in this goodly tree,
which I did plant in love bringe up in care:
but all in vanie [sic], for now to late I see
the shales be mine, the kernels others are.
My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares
If this be all the fruite my love tree beares.
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ibBmj.7162$421.3350@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
in the portrait of a "Persian Lady" is copied below. There is nothing in
these lines to suggest that Shakespeare had anything to do with it.
Peter Stewart
The restles swallow fits my restles minde,
in still revivinge still renewinge wronges;
her Just complaintes of cruelly unkinde,
are all the Musique, that my life prolonges.
With pensive thoughtes my weeping Stagg I crowne
whose Melancholy teares my cares Expresse
hes Teares in sylence, and my sighes unknowne
are all the physicke that my harmes redresse.
My onely hope was in this goodly tree,
which I did plant in love bringe up in care:
but all in vanie [sic], for now to late I see
the shales be mine, the kernels others are.
My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares
If this be all the fruite my love tree beares.
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ibBmj.7162$421.3350@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
This isn't new, Leo - see
http://www.hammerschmidt-hummel.de/tran ... er2000.htm
The word that tells the story is not "evidence" so much as her claim that
she "produced" this, rather than uncovered it.
"Evidence" from supposed resemblances can only be subjective and
practically worthless, no matter what forensic techniques are applied.
There are only so many reference points in a human face, much less in a
two-dimensional painting of one, and comparison is not an exact science.
Nor is reading. A great deal can be - and far more than a great deal has
been - read into Shakespeare's sonnets, but there is nothing specific
enough in them to justify even the departure point of
Hammerschmidt-Hummel's effort to produce "evidence".
Peter Stewart
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2606.1201327027.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
snip
Only today did I pick up the Christmas issue 2007 of Family
History Monthly. On page 12 is a story about the research of
Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel. She lectures in English
Literature at the University of Mainz in Germany.
I will let her speak for herself, but I am going to change one word,
she says she produced evidence, and I think it is only a suggestion.
"For centuries there has been doubt about the identity of Shakespeare's
'Dark Lady', who he wrote a number of sonnets about. I believe she
was Elizabeth Vernon, who in 1598 married the Earl of Southampton,
when she was already highly pregnant. I was able to produce suggestions
that it was William Shakespeare, not the 3rd Earl of Southampton, who
fathered Vernon's first-born daughter Penelope."
-
R C
RE: Shakespearian Tragedy ? Hamnet Sadler and his kinsman Si
According to Burke's, Sir Ralph Sadl(i)er, Elizabethan statesman, whose
anniversary was celebrated by lectures in Britain last year, was a kinsman
of Hamnet Sadler who witnessed Shakespeare's will. The Bard is said to have
named his son Hamnet for his friend Sadler and by extension the play,
Hamlet.
Some have suspected Sadler of poisoning the Bard, but like this it will
likely always remain highly speculative.
I wonder if anyone knows anything of the Sadler lineage before Sir Ralph and
his kinsman Hamnet?
In the 19th century, a kinsman of mine, the last unofficial Squire of
Purton, James Henry Sadler, put up monuments in Purton, Wilts. parish church
to his family using Sir Ralph Sadler's coat-of-arms. For a couple of
generations the family had used these arms and the name Ralph for some sons.
Burke even claims that the Sadlers of Purton were descendants of a younger
son of Sir Ralph. I have never been able to prove this to my satisfaction.
Has anyone else got any data on any of these Sadler families?
TIA,
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Stewart
Sent: 25-Jan-08 11:48 PM
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Shakespearian Tragedy ?
If anyone is still interested in this, the sonnet inscribed on a cartouche
in the portrait of a "Persian Lady" is copied below. There is nothing in
these lines to suggest that Shakespeare had anything to do with it.
Peter Stewart
The restles swallow fits my restles minde,
in still revivinge still renewinge wronges;
her Just complaintes of cruelly unkinde,
are all the Musique, that my life prolonges.
With pensive thoughtes my weeping Stagg I crowne
whose Melancholy teares my cares Expresse
hes Teares in sylence, and my sighes unknowne
are all the physicke that my harmes redresse.
My onely hope was in this goodly tree,
which I did plant in love bringe up in care:
but all in vanie [sic], for now to late I see
the shales be mine, the kernels others are.
My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares
If this be all the fruite my love tree beares.
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ibBmj.7162$421.3350@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
anniversary was celebrated by lectures in Britain last year, was a kinsman
of Hamnet Sadler who witnessed Shakespeare's will. The Bard is said to have
named his son Hamnet for his friend Sadler and by extension the play,
Hamlet.
Some have suspected Sadler of poisoning the Bard, but like this it will
likely always remain highly speculative.
I wonder if anyone knows anything of the Sadler lineage before Sir Ralph and
his kinsman Hamnet?
In the 19th century, a kinsman of mine, the last unofficial Squire of
Purton, James Henry Sadler, put up monuments in Purton, Wilts. parish church
to his family using Sir Ralph Sadler's coat-of-arms. For a couple of
generations the family had used these arms and the name Ralph for some sons.
Burke even claims that the Sadlers of Purton were descendants of a younger
son of Sir Ralph. I have never been able to prove this to my satisfaction.
Has anyone else got any data on any of these Sadler families?
TIA,
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-medieval-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Stewart
Sent: 25-Jan-08 11:48 PM
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Shakespearian Tragedy ?
If anyone is still interested in this, the sonnet inscribed on a cartouche
in the portrait of a "Persian Lady" is copied below. There is nothing in
these lines to suggest that Shakespeare had anything to do with it.
Peter Stewart
The restles swallow fits my restles minde,
in still revivinge still renewinge wronges;
her Just complaintes of cruelly unkinde,
are all the Musique, that my life prolonges.
With pensive thoughtes my weeping Stagg I crowne
whose Melancholy teares my cares Expresse
hes Teares in sylence, and my sighes unknowne
are all the physicke that my harmes redresse.
My onely hope was in this goodly tree,
which I did plant in love bringe up in care:
but all in vanie [sic], for now to late I see
the shales be mine, the kernels others are.
My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares
If this be all the fruite my love tree beares.
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ibBmj.7162$421.3350@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
This isn't new, Leo - see
http://www.hammerschmidt-hummel.de/tran ... er2000.htm
The word that tells the story is not "evidence" so much as her claim that
she "produced" this, rather than uncovered it.
"Evidence" from supposed resemblances can only be subjective and
practically worthless, no matter what forensic techniques are applied.
There are only so many reference points in a human face, much less in a
two-dimensional painting of one, and comparison is not an exact science.
Nor is reading. A great deal can be - and far more than a great deal has
been - read into Shakespeare's sonnets, but there is nothing specific
enough in them to justify even the departure point of
Hammerschmidt-Hummel's effort to produce "evidence".
Peter Stewart
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2606.1201327027.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
snip
Only today did I pick up the Christmas issue 2007 of Family
History Monthly. On page 12 is a story about the research of
Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel. She lectures in English
Literature at the University of Mainz in Germany.
I will let her speak for herself, but I am going to change one word,
she says she produced evidence, and I think it is only a suggestion.
"For centuries there has been doubt about the identity of Shakespeare's
'Dark Lady', who he wrote a number of sonnets about. I believe she
was Elizabeth Vernon, who in 1598 married the Earl of Southampton,
when she was already highly pregnant. I was able to produce suggestions
that it was William Shakespeare, not the 3rd Earl of Southampton, who
fathered Vernon's first-born daughter Penelope."
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-
wjhonson
Re: Shakespearian Tragedy ? Hamnet Sadler and his kinsman Si
On Jan 25, 11:57 pm, "R C" <leliw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This link
http://books.google.com/books?id=AhUHAA ... e&as_brr=1
will help you get started on researching the Sadliers, quoting some
MIs
Btw Anne Coke's father was Sir Edward Coke of Stoke Pogis who marrid
secondly to Elizabeth Cecil, daughter of Thomas Cecil the 1st Earl of
Exeter (he d 1623)
Will Johnson
According to Burke's, Sir Ralph Sadl(i)er, Elizabethan statesman, whose
anniversary was celebrated by lectures in Britain last year, was a kinsman
of Hamnet Sadler who witnessed Shakespeare's will. The Bard is said to have
named his son Hamnet for his friend Sadler and by extension the play,
Hamlet.
Some have suspected Sadler of poisoning the Bard, but like this it will
likely always remain highly speculative.
I wonder if anyone knows anything of the Sadler lineage before Sir Ralph and
his kinsman Hamnet?
In the 19th century, a kinsman of mine, the last unofficial Squire of
Purton, James Henry Sadler, put up monuments in Purton, Wilts. parish church
to his family using Sir Ralph Sadler's coat-of-arms. For a couple of
generations the family had used these arms and the name Ralph for some sons.
Burke even claims that the Sadlers of Purton were descendants of a younger
son of Sir Ralph. I have never been able to prove this to my satisfaction.
Has anyone else got any data on any of these Sadler families?
Richard
This link
http://books.google.com/books?id=AhUHAA ... e&as_brr=1
will help you get started on researching the Sadliers, quoting some
MIs
Btw Anne Coke's father was Sir Edward Coke of Stoke Pogis who marrid
secondly to Elizabeth Cecil, daughter of Thomas Cecil the 1st Earl of
Exeter (he d 1623)
Will Johnson
-
Hovite
Shakespeare
On Jan 26, 5:54 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Looks like pure nonsense from beginning to end.
Most of the Sonnets are love poems addressed to a man.
Sonnet 126 begins:
"O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy power"
The poems are dedicated to Mr W H.
The sonnets addressed to an anonymous woman are 127-152. But "for the
most part, it is assumed that she is a figment of Shakespeare's
imagination. Also, the 'darkness' may refer to her nature rather than
her appearance, or the 'dark' force of lust as opposed to the platonic
love felt for the Fair Lord."
http://www.newagebd.com/2006/apr/21/apr ... also3.html
"For centuries there has been doubt .. I believe ... never been convincingly identified. I believe her ... may have been authorised by Shakespeare."
Looks like pure nonsense from beginning to end.
Most of the Sonnets are love poems addressed to a man.
Sonnet 126 begins:
"O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy power"
The poems are dedicated to Mr W H.
The sonnets addressed to an anonymous woman are 127-152. But "for the
most part, it is assumed that she is a figment of Shakespeare's
imagination. Also, the 'darkness' may refer to her nature rather than
her appearance, or the 'dark' force of lust as opposed to the platonic
love felt for the Fair Lord."
http://www.newagebd.com/2006/apr/21/apr ... also3.html
-
Don Stone
Re: Shakespeare
Hovite wrote:
A. L. Rowse was a vigorous proponent of the hypothesis that the Dark
Lady was Emilia Bassano (1569-1645), who married Alphonso Lanier (d.
1613). Members of her family were musicians at the court of Queen
Elizabeth. See details, for example, at
http://www.peterbassano.com/shakespeare. Emilia has two genealogical
connections with America: her first cousin Lucretia Bassano married
Nicholas Lanier and became grandmother of the Virginia immigrant John
Lanier, and her first cousin three times removed, Anne Bassano, "went to
Virginia, N. America, and married _________," according to the Bassano
pedigree in the _History and Gazetteer of the County of Derby_ (1829),
p. 576.
-- Don Stone
On Jan 26, 5:54 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
"For centuries there has been doubt .. I believe ... never been convincingly identified. I believe her ... may have been authorised by Shakespeare."
Looks like pure nonsense from beginning to end.
Most of the Sonnets are love poems addressed to a man.
Sonnet 126 begins:
"O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy power"
The poems are dedicated to Mr W H.
The sonnets addressed to an anonymous woman are 127-152. But "for the
most part, it is assumed that she is a figment of Shakespeare's
imagination. Also, the 'darkness' may refer to her nature rather than
her appearance, or the 'dark' force of lust as opposed to the platonic
love felt for the Fair Lord."
http://www.newagebd.com/2006/apr/21/apr ... _also3.htm
A. L. Rowse was a vigorous proponent of the hypothesis that the Dark
Lady was Emilia Bassano (1569-1645), who married Alphonso Lanier (d.
1613). Members of her family were musicians at the court of Queen
Elizabeth. See details, for example, at
http://www.peterbassano.com/shakespeare. Emilia has two genealogical
connections with America: her first cousin Lucretia Bassano married
Nicholas Lanier and became grandmother of the Virginia immigrant John
Lanier, and her first cousin three times removed, Anne Bassano, "went to
Virginia, N. America, and married _________," according to the Bassano
pedigree in the _History and Gazetteer of the County of Derby_ (1829),
p. 576.
-- Don Stone
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Shakespeare
Dear Don,
What I love about genealogy is that when A is being said, others look at it
and say, what about B and C? In this case the Bassano information is
incredible. When you talk about that period, you do not think of Italians
having links to North America.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Stone" <don@donstonetech.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare
What I love about genealogy is that when A is being said, others look at it
and say, what about B and C? In this case the Bassano information is
incredible. When you talk about that period, you do not think of Italians
having links to North America.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Stone" <don@donstonetech.com>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare
Hovite wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:54 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
"For centuries there has been doubt .. I believe ... never been
convincingly identified. I believe her ... may have been authorised by
Shakespeare."
Looks like pure nonsense from beginning to end.
Most of the Sonnets are love poems addressed to a man.
Sonnet 126 begins:
"O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy power"
The poems are dedicated to Mr W H.
The sonnets addressed to an anonymous woman are 127-152. But "for the
most part, it is assumed that she is a figment of Shakespeare's
imagination. Also, the 'darkness' may refer to her nature rather than
her appearance, or the 'dark' force of lust as opposed to the platonic
love felt for the Fair Lord."
http://www.newagebd.com/2006/apr/21/apr ... _also3.htm
A. L. Rowse was a vigorous proponent of the hypothesis that the Dark
Lady was Emilia Bassano (1569-1645), who married Alphonso Lanier (d.
1613). Members of her family were musicians at the court of Queen
Elizabeth. See details, for example, at
http://www.peterbassano.com/shakespeare. Emilia has two genealogical
connections with America: her first cousin Lucretia Bassano married
Nicholas Lanier and became grandmother of the Virginia immigrant John
Lanier, and her first cousin three times removed, Anne Bassano, "went to
Virginia, N. America, and married _________," according to the Bassano
pedigree in the _History and Gazetteer of the County of Derby_ (1829),
p. 576.
-- Don Stone
-------------------------------
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Peter Stewart
Re: Shakespeare
"Don Stone" <don@donstonetech.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.2626.1201364406.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Well yes, but by the time he came up with this theory Leslie Rowse was
another attention-seeking (or rather demanding) crackpot. The evidence does
not come anywhere close to warranting his overwheening, indeed abusive,
certainty on the matter.
Peter Stewart
news:mailman.2626.1201364406.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Hovite wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:54 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
"For centuries there has been doubt .. I believe ... never been
convincingly identified. I believe her ... may have been authorised by
Shakespeare."
Looks like pure nonsense from beginning to end.
Most of the Sonnets are love poems addressed to a man.
Sonnet 126 begins:
"O thou, my lovely boy, who in thy power"
The poems are dedicated to Mr W H.
The sonnets addressed to an anonymous woman are 127-152. But "for the
most part, it is assumed that she is a figment of Shakespeare's
imagination. Also, the 'darkness' may refer to her nature rather than
her appearance, or the 'dark' force of lust as opposed to the platonic
love felt for the Fair Lord."
http://www.newagebd.com/2006/apr/21/apr ... _also3.htm
A. L. Rowse was a vigorous proponent of the hypothesis that the Dark Lady
was Emilia Bassano (1569-1645), who married Alphonso Lanier (d. 1613).
Members of her family were musicians at the court of Queen Elizabeth. See
details, for example, at http://www.peterbassano.com/shakespeare. Emilia
has two genealogical connections with America: her first cousin Lucretia
Bassano married Nicholas Lanier and became grandmother of the Virginia
immigrant John Lanier, and her first cousin three times removed, Anne
Bassano, "went to Virginia, N. America, and married _________," according
to the Bassano pedigree in the _History and Gazetteer of the County of
Derby_ (1829), p. 576.
Well yes, but by the time he came up with this theory Leslie Rowse was
another attention-seeking (or rather demanding) crackpot. The evidence does
not come anywhere close to warranting his overwheening, indeed abusive,
certainty on the matter.
Peter Stewart